REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Straw Man Argument

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, February 4, 2013 14:21
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VIEWED: 1857
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Friday, February 1, 2013 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I've heard that bandied about here and other places, and never knew exactly what it meant. So I looked it up. Now I understand.
Quote:

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

1. Person 1 has position X.

2. Person 2 disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

1.Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.

2.Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[4]

3.Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.

4.Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

5.Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

3. Person 2 attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This reasoning is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position does not address the actual position. The ostensible argument that Person 2 makes has the form:

"Don't support X, because X has an unacceptable (or absurd or contradictory or terrible) consequence."

However, the actual form of the argument is:

"Don't support X, because Y has an unacceptable (or absurd or contradictory or terrible) consequence."

This argument doesn't make sense; it is a non sequitur. Person 2 relies on the audience not noticing this.

Examples

A: Sunny days are good. B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death.

In this case, B falsely frames A's claim to imply that A believes only sunny days are good, and B argues against that assertion. A actually asserts that sunny days are good and, in fact, says nothing about rainy days.Wiki
So now I get it, and will remember. And it confirms my belief that what Geezer did to me in another thread WAS a straw man argument. I think there are quite a few of those that go one here, and many of them are not called.

Just an exercise in understanding, nothing more. Thought it would be worth characterizing it for anyone else besides me who has an unclear understanding of the term.

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Friday, February 1, 2013 11:14 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!




I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, February 2, 2013 4:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




See pretty much every argument Geezer has ever put forth.


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Saturday, February 2, 2013 5:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Straw man is pretty handy, because if someone presents an argument you don't like, or can't refute, or points out an inconsistancy in your point of view, you can just cry "Oh, that's a Straw man argument, and I don't have to respond to it".




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, February 4, 2013 1:37 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Thanks Niki, I kind of thought that's what it is, but I was sort of afraid to ask because everyone else appeared to know what it meant and I didn't want to ask a question that made me feel silly. But I appreciate the explanation. Its still kind of confusing but I think I understand better now.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 4, 2013 1:42 PM

BYTEMITE


Straw Man is basically the feeling you get when someone posts a response to you and you think, "where did this come from? no one said anything like this, least of all me."

You may or may not also feel like you're on fire.

/unhelpful

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Monday, February 4, 2013 2:21 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Straw man is pretty handy, because if someone presents an argument you don't like, or can't refute, or points out an inconsistancy in your point of view, you can just cry "Oh, that's a Straw man argument, and I don't have to respond to it".







"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



Sure, I could see how you might think that, if you, ya know, didn't bother to read the definition, or (in your case, the far more likely) didn't understand the definition.

Though, given your reliance on them (and your inability to use teh googles), it would be in your interest to deliberately mis-use the term.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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