Anybody here in the trades???? (Looking for attire-related interview advice) by 6IXSTRINGJACK

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Anybody here in the trades???? (Looking for attire-related interview advice)

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Friday, March 29, 2013 05:54
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3192
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:02 PM

Just as I assumed after going through it a second time (a hubris free assumption based on facts, I assure you), I got my 2nd interview in two years straight for the pipefitters union in late March.

Unlike your standard union, this one encompasses two trades. The first and harder one to get in, "H-VAC" (heating and air conditioning, specializing more in electricity) I applied for last year. The second, "Building Trades" (much more physical work although dummy's need not apply here either, specializing more in welding) I applied for this year. Both trades keep an ongoing list of 300 candidates which include the top 300 from the current year of testing/interviews and the previous year, not including of course those who were accepted after the list came out.

Although I've been told that after you get into the union you can find out exactly what your test scores were, for legal reasons they do not divulge that to candidates. The only score you get is the Overall Score, which is a maximum of 200 pts (100 for the test/interview each), divided by two.

Last year, for HVAC, I got an 83.9% Overall Score, which landed me at 54 out of 300. They only hired 35. This year, although I'm sure that with the time constraints and stupid mistakes that I didn't ACE the test, I see no reason why it isn't somewhat possible I walked out of there with a 100% in all tests. Knowing what I needed to study after last year, I walked out of there confident that there wasn't a single question asked that I didn't know the answer to.

I know deep in my heart that I tested at least in the low 90s on the test last year, so that means that my interview didn't go so well. I attribute that much to nervousness since both interviews and public speaking has never been my fortay, but I genuinely believe that dressing up in a suit further killed my chances. If for no other reason than wearing a suit outside of a wedding/funeral was stepping so far out of my own comfort zone of "blending in", and being hit with the realization after I got there that I was one of only about 8 other people out of hundreds wearing a suit to an interview for a job you'd never once be required to dress in one.

I have no tattoos or piercings to cover up. I have perfectly straight teeth from braces as a kid, albeit a little yellowed due to tobacco and cigarettes. I have a full head of hair, although there is more than a few stress-related gray hairs showing up around the temples a bit earlier than I'd like. I am about 20 lbs lighter and "in shape" this time around though, and that should show through in the way I carry myself no matter what I'm wearing.

Overall, I feel that my general physical appearance on face value is better than what it would be last year without considering what I wear to the interview.

On a personal level, I feel the most comfortable wearing a T-Shirt and Jeans nearly anywhere I go. My favorite jobs, and working on my own house, were always "hands-on" jobs that required you to get dirty. Wearing anything nicer than this would just be stupid since wearing a shirt/jeans with paint or a few minor holes to a job like this looks completely acceptable, but wearing even a polo with paint or holes to a job looks really dumb. It's always nice to be able to feel like it's acceptable to get dirty on the fly if you're somewhere and somebody needs your help. At least to me, wearing nice restrictive clothing makes me much less inclined to help somebody.

I actually love wearing one of my 3 suits to weddings since I know I look pretty damn good in a suit, but at the same time one of the only reasons I really love weddings is because it gives me a genuine opportunity to wear such nice clothes somewhere without looking like a d-bag.

I know that neither of these are a realistic option. I'd never go to any interview anywhere with jeans and a t-shirt. Last year's experience makes me sure that I'd never go to a Union trades job interview wearing a full suit again.

The real question is.... khaki vs. slacks.... and button up w/without tie or polo shirt?

I'm leaning on Khakis with just a polo, but at the same time, I can tie a bad ass Windsor knot and to anyone interviewing who knows their ties they'd be able to tell that it wasn't a clip-on. Still... I feel that would be far too overdressed for the position....

I'm at a loss here......

On one hand, the positives (and potentials) from last year...... I know I tested extremely well. One of the two interviewers seemed to genuinely like me. I was one of less than 10 in a room of hundreds to wear a suit and tie to the interview. Although I had zero welding experience I described my ability and willingness to learn new skills, particularly when it had to do with restoring my own home.

On the other hand, the negatives (and potentials) from last year.... One of the interviewers seemed to not like me or at least just "tolerate" me until the next candidate arrived. My wearing a nice suit and tie to such a blue collar interview could be received (especially by the "bad" interviewer) as nothing more than an eminence front on my part. Although I expressed a history of learning new tools and a desire to learn more, I feel that wearing a nice, pressed suit and tie may have given the bad interviewer the impression that I didn't want to "get dirty"......

I have a lot of other advice I'd like to ask people here about interview questions and other important things... but for now, what I wear (including should I wear a wristwatch to the interview) is the most important thing to me.

If anyone here is, has been, or has a family member that was in the trades, I would appreciate their input on the interview process, as it pertains today.

Thanks,
~6

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Jack a chara,

I can't help you with clothing advice since I'm not in the trades. My dad is a painting and remodeling contractor (which is a bit different I know) but he owns his own business and has for 20 years, so I don't know that he'd be worth asking about clothes at interviews since he's been doing his own thing for so long.

But I wish you well and hope that others can give you some good advice. I think you can do this!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:23 PM

BYTEMITE

Had to wear a suit to my interviews, and I only wear sweaters and jeans nowadays, some of my coworkers wear superhero t-shirts. I do environmental cleanup work in the mud, rain, and snow.

I dunno, I've never seen a job besides at a department store or for a fast food restaurant that they didn't expect people to show up in a suit.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
A Jack a chara,

I can't help you with clothing advice since I'm not in the trades. My dad is a painting and remodeling contractor (which is a bit different I know) but he owns his own business and has for 20 years, so I don't know that he'd be worth asking about clothes at interviews since he's been doing his own thing for so long.

But I wish you well and hope that others can give you some good advice. I think you can do this!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Hey Riona!

Ask your old man what he thinks!!! I'm sure he's had experience with a lot of union guys over the years. I want his opinion over guys who have gotten the job over the last 10 or so years, not those in the late 90s or earlier!

Thanks.... mwwwwwah!

~6

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Had to wear a suit to my interviews, and I only wear sweaters and jeans nowadays, some of my coworkers wear superhero t-shirts. I do environmental cleanup work in the mud, rain, and snow.

I dunno, I've never seen a job besides at a department store or for a fast food restaurant that they didn't expect people to show up in a suit.

Haha.....

Part of me thinks that if I wore the right super-hero costume with the right interviewers I might just make it. I really think I'm much more like you , Byte, though and just want to keep my head down while doing a great job. I'm just smarter than 99% of people I've ever known and have the "Iowa tests" as a kid to prove it. Though those tests were performed nearly 2 decades ago, they still have to mean something....

My younger bro is the guy who would come to a family party wearing the Batman suit he wore at the interview after being accepted.....

The nice thing, for me, is that I don't suffer from a crippling OCD complex or "ASS Burgers" syndrome, like many people with my IQ do. The fact that I work at "the Mart" overnight, and it's one of the 3 job interviews I've had in 2 years that hired me, does say something to my detriment, but the fact that I've been invited to birthday parties and can associate with peers much better than I could back in High School means something.

For now, it's all just about "attire".....

Suits, for this job, and from my experience, are BS....

I'm even condsidering telling them why I didn't wear a suit the second time around when they start the convo with "tell me about you".....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:32 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

Jack,

unless you were given specific guidelines as to dress code for the interview, you should always assume that dress to impress is the way to go. AT MINIMUM you shold put on some nice slacks, and wear a tie.

While my expertise isnt in union jobs, I recruit for corporations in manufacturing of consumer goods, and I can tell you that you are being judged, weighed, and measured from the moment you walk in the door for your interview.

Taking the time and effort to look good for your interview communicates that you will take similar time and effort to ensure that your work will as well. Don't show up too early, thats a hassle for the hiring manager.

You should have prepared some intelligent questions for the interviewer, not low gain stuff like what r the hours, benefits and so on...

Instead ask questions like "how will my success or failure in this position be measured?" "How will this position impact the company?" "what qualities do u feel will make a candidate successful in this position?"

The goal is to draw out the interviewers needs, and then sell yourself back to those needs...present yourself as the solution to the problems inherent in the position...

Last advice, chemistry is 80+ percent of every hire, you want to get the interviewer talking as much as possible, ask them questions about what attracted them to the company, what are the companys plans for the next 6, 12 months...the more they talk the better they like you.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The nice thing, for me, is that I don't suffer from a crippling OCD complex or "ASS Burgers" syndrome, like many people with my IQ do.

>_>

You sure about that? Some of your addictive behaviours, I dunno, seem kinda compulsive.

I'm lucky, my OCD mostly involves a fixation on even numbers, numerical/alphabetical/rainbow order, hygiene, and other nitpicky stuff that doesn't take too much time.

Quote:
I'm even condsidering telling them why I didn't wear a suit the second time around when they start the convo with "tell me about you".....

If wearing a suit the first time was a mistake, calling attention to the previous mistake might not work to your favour. Plus they see a lot of people, do you think they'll remember you so you have to explain yourself?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I asked my dad and he said you ought to wear whatever the interviewer was wearing last year, as in wear something similar to what you saw s/he wearing. He feels that a suit will look silly and won't denote an "I'm ready for work ASAP" attitude. He says he wouldn't hire a perspective employee if they showed up for their interview in a suit, he would want to see that they're ready to work, though wearing your grubbiest paint clothes for the first interview isn't best either. Again, wear whatever the interviewer was wearing last time. This seems like reasonable advice to me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Hey BHM,

I think you're right about the slacks and probably the tie... I'm just not sure... grrrr.... At least if I go that route I would feel much less self conscious about over-dressing because even though there were only about 8 suits interviewing, there had to be about 80 ties out of the 300 people there.

Thank you for the rest of your advice, especially about asking them questions. I've got about 6 weeks to really plan this out, and now that this is my second time through it I more-or-less know what to expect and should be a lot less nervous this time around.

I had another question to ask you....

Would you recommend I wear a wristwatch to the interview? My current manager says that this always meant a lot to him back when he used to be a hiring manager. He says that it shows that you care about time and that you are likely to be more punctual. He also says that especially in the day and age of cell phones, so few people even bother with a wristwatch, and that even solidified his reasoning for this. It's a lot easier to just raise your arm up and look at the time instead of fumbling in your pocket to get your phone out. He also said that it didn't matter what type of watch they were wearing, whether it was an expensive looking watch or a digital/rubber Casio. In fact, since he noticed I never wear a watch he even recommended I "buy" a watch and take it back after the interview if I never plan on actually wearing it again. (I told him that I don't even bring my cellphone to work because I NEVER like looking at the time while I'm working a job like this. He knows that I out-perform everyone I work with, some to even a 4/1 ratio, so he understands that having a wristwatch and the ability to look at it every 30 seconds at my current job would quickly turn an 8 hour shift into a 30 hour shift).

Have you ever put any thought into this "wristwatch theory" when hiring, or have you heard of other hiring managers doing so?

Thanks,
~6

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
The nice thing, for me, is that I don't suffer from a crippling OCD complex or "ASS Burgers" syndrome, like many people with my IQ do.

>_>

You sure about that? Some of your addictive behaviours, I dunno, seem kinda compulsive.

I'm lucky, my OCD mostly involves a fixation on even numbers, numerical/alphabetical/rainbow order, hygiene, and other nitpicky stuff that doesn't take too much time.

Haha! Well... I've never been formally diagnosed with OCD, but I've suspected for years that I may have a form of it. If I were to have it, I would like to think that it's a high-functioning level of it though. I have a brother who seems to be medicated and/or cured now and lives what seems to be a normal life, but he used to wear clothes only once before throwing them away and then expect my (not rich) parents to buy him new clothes. He would also take up to 8 showers a day, and desperately needed a lead poisoning test if he touched any metal. I also had an uncle who would repeatedly put on socks and shoes over and over until he had "just the right" socks before he went to work. He also totaled three cars during bouts of road rage when somebody cut him off.

Sometimes I wonder while at work if I remembered to lock my door when I left, but I don't give it too much thought. I just remember that since I'm borderline paranoid about these types of things that there was ZERO chance that I didn't lock the doors before I left and then I forget about it and go back to work.

I'm completely fixated on money though.... That wasn't a bad thing when I was making more than I would spend, but having a record of every expenditure to the penny can be pretty depressing when you realize that you're really not having any fun or buying anything new and you still are losing money month after month. If anything, because of my less-than-half-of-poverty income, I've spent much less time with money. I used to visit every single one of my bank/credit/retirement accounts daily when I was making money. Now, it's just once or twice a month.

I dunno.... If you saw my spreadsheets since Aug '11, or the 3 notebooks I had about my finances dating back to 2004, or if you saw that I have every tax booklet and income tax form and all of the W2's, 1099's and any other relevant piece of paper dating back to when I started working back in 1996, you might think I was OCD. I do too sometimes.... At the same time, when I look at the crippling effects it had on my family members and their own really strange ways of coping with it it, I realize that if this is a form of OCD... all that energy I waste could be wasted on much stranger and non-profitable things.

As far as my "addictions".... sure, they could be a form of OCD. I can't discount that possibility. Right now, my only 2 real vices are cigarettes and beer. At the same time, I never go to work drunk and I never call in sick because I'm hung-over. My lungs and liver probably would not be worth 5 cents on the black market today, but I've always seemed to be able to work around my responsibilities of my work schedule without a problem.

Maybe I'm wrong, but no... I don't think I suffer from OCD. Having been close and closely related to two people who truly have suffered from that affliction, I don't think it should be a term carelessly thrown around. I'm sure there are varying degrees to it, just like anything else, but when you witness people completely lost and controlled by their compulsions to the point that they begin to ruin their lives and seriously burden the people they care about, and have zero rational explanations for their behavior... it's hard for me to tell myself that I could be afflicted.

I get the "number" stuff you talked about though. It's a shame I can't make my hand-eye ordination do what my mind can do with angles or I'd be Minnesota Fats today. I remember being a kid and when I was bored I could look at walls and floors and ceilings and just sit there and imagine the angles an invisible ball would ricochet off of them. I haven't done that for years, so I'm surprised

Quote:

Quote:
I'm even condsidering telling them why I didn't wear a suit the second time around when they start the convo with "tell me about you".....

If wearing a suit the first time was a mistake, calling attention to the previous mistake might not work to your favour. Plus they see a lot of people, do you think they'll remember you so you have to explain yourself?

The chances that I would ever be interviewed by the same two people are one in a million at best. Every interviewee has two interviewrers. One from the union, and one from a large company that employees the members. The fact that I'm applying for the "easier" to get into side of the union this year likely eliminates the "company" side altogether, and I'm quite certain that the union rep would be from the opposite spectrum as well.

I figured I might bring this up just as a start-up-convo "tell us about you" way of seeming down to earth and lighting the mood for all of us before their real questions started.

I really was so close last year..... 54 when they only hired 35.... An average of 3,000 applicants year over year, and out of the previous 2 years I came in at 54 out of roughly 6,000 people only to be 19 short.....

Maybe it would be a mistake to joke about this... I dunno?

At least I KNOW these people are still hiring in this climate. I see no reason why I shouldn't be one of the "lucky ones" with my drive and intelligence, even if I don't have a Dad to get me in.

I'm just trying to forge the perfect interview. Figuring out how to make them an offer they can't refuse......

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I asked my dad and he said you ought to wear whatever the interviewer was wearing last year, as in wear something similar to what you saw s/he wearing. He feels that a suit will look silly and won't denote an "I'm ready for work ASAP" attitude. He says he wouldn't hire a perspective employee if they showed up for their interview in a suit, he would want to see that they're ready to work, though wearing your grubbiest paint clothes for the first interview isn't best either. Again, wear whatever the interviewer was wearing last time. This seems like reasonable advice to me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

See Riona......

There lies the conundrum.....

"Wear what the interviewer was wearing last year, but look like you're ready to work......"

Last year, all 20 of the interviewers were wearing suits and ties. I was one of 8 people out of 300 being interviewed wearing a suit and tie. Out of the 320 people in that building on that day that mattered, I was one of 28 that were more prepared for a wedding than getting our hands dirty welding and working with electricity....

Honestly, wearing kakhis and a polo, still, is SERIOUSLY overdressed for what we'd be wearing on the job....

Speaking to the "super-hero" post somebody else said... I've been considering a third option....

I actually "own" an official FRS from the union I'm trying to get into. An FRS is a Flame Retardant Suit that can be made of many different materials and be as cheap as throw away "paper" or as expensive as the suit I have now.

While working security at a plant I'd likely be doing work at if I got the job, I had to wear the cheapest throw away kind of FRS. It was baby-blue, it looked like a full-suit hospital gown, and it was honestly embarassing to wear. If it wasn't bad enough just having it on, you were more likely to hear union idiots comment on how it's falling apart at the crotch before you even noticed it was and had to ask for another one.....

I befriended a union worker after having met him a few times while taking a smoke break. He made good on his promise and an hour after I arrived the next day he gave me one of those navy blue full-denim bad boys and I put it on immediately. On the next smoke break that we met up I thanked him for giving me my dignity back......

He told me to keep the suit. He said if anybody asked, I was just borrowing it, but not to bother giving it back.

I really don't know the full cost of it, but currently, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the highest priced item in my clothing inventory......

I could manage a garage for 30 years with a name-patch on the chest with it and it would probably still look this good after a thorough wash...

So many questions, and what seems to be so little time....

I'm hungry.... and I'm ready.....

This job will be the platform I need to start the next chapter in my life.

All I need to do is convince them of that.

Thanks R :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:40 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Oh, well if they were wearing suits ... maybe wear a tie but not a suit? That's a tough one.

My philosophy on mental health differences is that many people have tendencies of conditions, but if it isn't affecting daily functioning (work, school, relationships with family/friends/SOs) notable misuse of resources, eating up all your time etc. then there's no reason to stick a label on it. I think your assessment of the situation makes sense, you know it runs in your genetics and you know you have some tendencies, but you also know that you don't feel like its rutting up your life and your family doesn't feel its rutting up your life either. So why get a label that isn't needed?

On the subject of addictions vs. compulsions, I think sometimes the line can be muddy, but I do think there are subtile differences. I would classify Jack's habbits as more of addictions than compulsions, though my info is limited, but its my gut feeling upon the matter. He has an addictive personality, as do I.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:23 PM

HERO

Ruger is making a new pistol in honor of the President.

It's called the Ruger 9mm Trade Union. It doesn't work and can't be fired.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Yeah Riona, I think you might be right here.

I've only ever worn a tie to Office type positions before I interviewed for this job last year, but because this one is so potentially important I'd hate to dress down so much that I hurt myself in the process. I dunno... I really have to think about it. Maybe I should start hitting up trade-related boards and see what they say?

I tend to agree that my behaviors stem more from my addictive personality than from compulsive behavior. They're not all "bad" either, if I get myself in-line with more productive behaviors. I've mentioned the money, and I've also mentioned the excessive working out before in another post, and when I had money and I was going full bore on home improvement things I was really making this house look good in what would be a very short amount of time compared to most people.

Right now, I think my drinking comes out of boredom, and the free time that a life of a loner with a part time minimum wage job who lives in pretty comfortable circumstances has allowed himself, more than anything else. Not that that's an excuse since there are other much healthier habits I could be partaking in that didn't cost a fortune. It's just a rough spot.... Making enough to pay 60%-120% of monthly/yearly bills from month to month without any frills and only having to dip a little in what remains in the nest egg, but at the same time making so little that it's unimaginable to even consider going out to a bar and paying 5 bucks for an MGD for myself when 15 bucks buys me 30 icehouses.... let alone buying a cute girl a drink.

It's really a great situation to be in, so I can't bitch too much. The last time I even started to feel this this way, I was on my way to 7k in credit card debt with a 10 year old car while living in my grandma's basement. The overall situation is so much better. I just can't stand facing the fact that even if I were working full time at this job that I'd still just barely cover basic living expenses, and the few cheap thrills I'd indulge in would leave me just as close-to-broke next year as I am this year.

I just miss the feeling of being able to be this cheap and have quite a lot to show for it month to month. It's been about 8 years since I was Mr Party Guy, but at least for nearly 5 of them I could tell myself that this reclusiveness was for a greater purpose. Today, it's out of necessity...

This job would allow for a whole new world to open for me. In just 10 years at this job I would have enough saved up to start my own business without having to borrow any money. That's the most important thing to me. I never want to owe anybody anything for the rest of my life.

At least, monitarily anyhow... I have built up quite a list of favors I need to return to family in the last few years.

I WILL repay those favors. Even if I'm destined to be alone until the end, I don't want anybody thinking that I was a leach before I move on.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I still haven't decided for sure what I'll wear at the interview, but I'm considering questions that might be asked, and what people think would be "do's" and "don'ts" in that situation.

Here's a list of questions I remember from last year, how I answered, and how I feel I did right or wrong, and what I plan on changing. I'm just wondering what other's feel about my previous answers and/or changes this year.

Question 1: "Tell us about yourself".

I don't remember my exact ramblings here, but honestly, I really "blew my load" out the gates on this one. Not only did I mention that I own my house with cash at some point here, but I spoke about most of my strengths asked in other questions, mentioned more than I should have about my ability to learn new tools quickly and efficiently and although I didn't have any conception of time in the interview, I'm confident I spent more time on this single question than any other question I was asked.

I feel that when asked this question the 2nd time around, keeping the answer to about 60-90 seconds is ideal. I do think that mentioning that I've had a wide range of jobs that have given me experience in many aspects of the workforce has been beneficial to me, most specifically, because I now know after 17 years in the work force what types of job I'm interested in making my career. In retrospect I can say that that the least gratifying positions I've ever held were both physical and clerical jobs where every day was the same thing over and over and no matter how much you got done, there was twice as much waiting overnight for you when you got back in the morning. The most self-gratifying positions I've ever had were at jobs where I was working with my hands and I could stand back at the end of the day and be proud of the work that I did.

Question 2: Why are you looking for a job in the trades, specifically this job?

Again, I don't remember my answer to this question, but I know I totally BLEW a great opportunity because I didn't mention how the apprenticeship training facility is state of the art (something I planned on mentioning, but my nerves made me forget about it until right after I left).

I'd like two present it something like this.....

Why am I looking for a job in the trades? At my age, I would be very close to a half-way point in a career if I were from a previous generation. Unfortunately, in this global economy we find ourselves in, the only lucritive jobs I've held were in the tech industry and easily outsourced to foreign countries where they could pay multiple people with my stateside salary. Also, as I've mentioned before, working with my hands is much more self gratifying than sitting at a desk and working with an un-ending stream of information that never ends and almost never presents new challenges.

Why am I looking to get into this particular trade/union? Pipe-welding, H/VAC and other skills learned here, no matter how well somebody in India can learn them, need to be done by people that are actually here. These are invaluable skills, and the jobs performed by these skilled workers are not allowed to be performed by people who aren't certified by the government as being entirely competent and capable to perform them. The training facility is my biggest draw to this union. State of the art equipment and practices are taught to the best of the best.

I'm not going to be in my 30's forever. I'm not unhappy with what I've made of my 20's and early 30's, but I've got to start thinking about the future. With my affinity of tools and building things and making things work, I couldn't imagine a better fit.

Question 3: Would you say you are mechanically inclined?

I didn't even get a chance to answer this one. The Union Rep (the guy I was sure liked me) pretty much answered this for me by saying "we already know the answer to that question" with a smile. All I could say to this was "yes".

Had I not ruined what could have been an excellent question, I would mention that I like to do things on my own instead of paying somebody else to do them. Learning how to operate a new tool is a treat, and buying a new tool is like opening presents on Christmas morning. I don't actually pick up the use of any tool any quicker than I pick up any aspect of any job that I've ever held, but attaining the knowledge of how to use a new tool in my arsenal is much more satisfying than learning how to properly fill out a TPS report....

Question 4: Tell us about a time where you had an argument with a boss (or something along those lines)

This is the one question I felt that I wouldn't change. To this day, I occasionally write emails back and forth with this guy. He actually got me (a crappy job) when I needed one.

He was a Napoleon of a man.... A short Italian grouch who was so imposing that you'd think he was 8 feet tall instead of 1" less than my short 5'7" frame. He reminded me of my late grandfather.

One day, he came into my office yelling about this or that and I just sat there and let him finish his rant. Rather than get heated and yell back, or cower and say "yes, sir", I simply asked him "Dan, why do you allow yourself to get so mad about everything?".

Two great things came from that exchange. The first was that Dan never yelled at me again and I felt that I had earned a respect from him that even my grandfather rarely gave anyone. At the same time, "Sandi", a near-retirement age woman was making copies outside of my office and offered to take me for a beer at lunch. Not only did I secure a "brotherhood" with the unskilled workers in the back after that story made the rounds, but I was able to find out some "gossip" from the back room that I would have never been privy to before that.

Question 5: Tell us about a time when you argued with a teacher or instructor.

I don't know what to do about this one. My answer this year, believe it or not, would be the same as it was last year. "Never happened". (Which is exactly what we're advised not to answer before our interviews started).

I didn't become rebellious until after I was going to school, even community college.

I still have old report cards where additional notes were made on the side of my grades saying "pleasure in class", and other such things. Actually, my 2nd grade teacher ended up being my 5th grade teacher in grade school. To this day, I wonder who was more excited about that... her or I?

There was, one instance..... I just talk about this since it was funny because I would never use it in an interview.

Sure, I was a star athlete on the wrestling team, but that's all I did. I didn't play football or baseball like my Senior Engilsh teacher worshiped. He reminded me more of a fashion dictator with glasses than an Engilsh teacher. He had "Ralph Lauren" flags and shit in his class. I'm thinking he must not have been gay even though he was so proper, simply because I was the ideal candidate for him to lust after at the time if he was.

He made us write 4 separate reports/stories one week, in class, using the computers we hardly ever touched back in 1996. I don't remember the first 3 topics or what I wrote, but I know that each one was more "risque". I do know that one of them revolved around OJ Simpson, which was topical at the time.

The 4th story, was "Something we wish we wouldn't have done".

My entire story was about how I should have played nintendo instead of playing with my joystick on that fateful day. Maybe I wouldn't be the compulsive self-satisfying machine I was if I just tried harder to save the Princess of the Mushroom kingdom? There was something in that report about being able to play the "slap banjo" better than Slash could play guitar.

My teacher made me read it to the class, which surprisingly was one of the easier public speaking assignments I'd have ever had before that. I was always petrified about public speaking, but this was more like doing stand up comedy. From that point on, I signed all of my work for the rest of the year in that class "Spanky".

I was never punished, and I was never embarrassed since that report leaked and made the rounds. It was kind of a "celebrity" status that I'd never had before that in HS. Actually, I thank the guy. I don't think that was his intention, unless he's some sort of deranged cupid, but the notoriety my "report" made as it spread introduced me to more women than any period before or after in my life.

Thanks Mr. S!

Question 6: Tell us about a stressful happening at work that acquired your immediate attention.

Last year, I asked first if I could use my "Furnace story" and work on my own house since it was my only "job" at the time. Especially since I was looking into the HVAC side of things, I felt this was a winner.

I'd still use that story today, but I feel that my newer "sump-pump" story I've posted about here is much more intense.

I'm sure last year I could have come up with relevant stories of dealing with stress on the job, but it felt right because it was right up the ally of the job I was trying for. There was really no "URGENCY" in it though......

The Sump Pump story was 120% adrenaline and urgency. Every minute counted and in the end the damage was next to nil, even though it could have been catastrophic had I not taken care of business.....

As for the rest of the questions, I don't really remember them. I wish I did.

The real thing I'd like to do here is just explain that even in this economy, they'd be making a mistake by passing me up. Though they'd be making a mistake hiring a "23 year old me", they'd be making a much larger mistake NOT hiring a "33 year old me".

Anything I do at any job when my foot is in the door, no matter what type of job, comes easy to me.

The hardest thing about any job for me is how to cope with the boredom when I've "figured it all out".

The fact that the apprenticeship program is 5 years and it's undetermined how long it will take for you to be a master tradesman after making Journeyman, is a HUGE draw for me.

Do I think I'll figure it out a lot quicker than most???? Sure I do.....

Journeyman is all I've ever been in any aspect of life though. I do have true respect for a true master at any art and/or trade. I've just never had the patience to become a true Master at anything.

Maybe this is what I've always needed?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:41 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Best wishes! I do recall that we didn't work out exactly what you should wear, I'd guess you should wear something in the middle, enough to show that you can be respectable, but not enough to look like a goody two shoes, since the suit didn't work for you last year.

Again best wishes.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Likely not getting in.......

Another 5 minutes of my life used to dictate the next 20-30 years of my life by two strangers....

I just don't interview well...

My only hope is that in this job I wasn't going for "ONE" job.... Sure 75 out of 100 jobs are sons and nephews, 5 to 10 of the rest are minorities and women. That still leaves me with 5 positions to gain. Much better odds than most other jobs I applied for.

Actually, considering that I was only going to get this job if I was the best of the rest 1,500 people and I couldn't make the top 5 people that weren't plants of nepotism or affirmative action, I don't deserve it.....

The top 5% sounds inssurmountable until you realize the real rules. They take ANY person who scored at least 70% on the test (I'm sure so they don't get sued).

Automatically, I scored 20-30% more than every applicant.

If they hire 100 automatically that are sons and nephews and minorities and women, there is still about 30 positions for people who actually earn it.

Not to knock the others who got it... they wouldn't have subverted me and others to make you "win" unless you were at least mildly competent. Good for you for not being entirely incompetent. YAY!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, March 29, 2013 4:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Hmmmmm.....

I think I'm going to give this whole butt-sex thing a real college try this year....

Assuming I don't get in the union after two years of scoring 90-98% on the tests before the interview, I can only imagine it's because I'm white and male and young. Those three things, and the fact that I don't have a daddy or uncle in the union are all that's working against me. They're all things I can't do anything to change.

If I were black or a woman, I would have a 50/50 chance of getting in as long as I scored at least a 70% on the exam. Being that I am neither, my high 90's test score doesn't mean more than a 5% chance of getting in when it comes to hiring in all the sons and nephews of current workers and political cronies, let alone all of the affirmative action hires they need to take every year on top of it.

Next year, I'm just going to tell them at the interview how I love taking dick up my ass in my free time. Yep... not only did the union make me stop smoking weed 2 years ago, but now I'm riding bone for them.

..... ugggghhhhhh......

The things one must do to stay afloat when they didn't get a worthless college diploma.

That would have been so much easier. I could have gotten straight C minuses between keg stands......

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, March 29, 2013 5:22 AM

MAL4PREZ

Jack,

I think you're worrying about the wrong thing. I mean, going in there in torn up jeans and a stained wife-beater would surely be bad, but as long as you don't do something so silly, which obviously you won't, you're OK. Khakis and button down shirt is fine, suit is fine. What's most important is that you don't get so tied up in worrying about yourself that you can't converse.

Think about it from their side. They want to hire someone who knows how to do shit, shows up every day, and is a decent person to be around. Yeah, folks don't talk about the last part often, but that's just a basic part of having a good crew, no matter the profession. They need competent people, but in 99% of professions easy to work with is a more important trait than a way huge IQ.

You've got the expertise, now you just have to convince them that you're dependable and - what's more - able to put the needs of the job about the minutiae of your own self. I suspect, from your long history here, that this may be your weakness. If you spend the interview focusing on yourself, it does not sell you well.

Ask them what they need, and show that you can deliver it with a minimum of drama. This is far FAR more important than whether you have a tie on or not.

In my teaching interview, I had to teach a class at each school I visited. Feedback I got after being hired: rather than focusing on showing them how big my brain is, I did a bit lecture than asked the kids about themselves and their school. This went over very well! Since then I've been involved in hiring, and I can't stress how important it was that the candidate was able to converse, both with the students and with their colleagues. It was at least as important as their knowledge of the material.

So that's my advice, if you want it. Get out of your head. Don't worry about your clothes. Don't try to overwhelm them with your brilliance. Just show them that you're capable, confident, dependable, and easy to work with.

Oh - and BHM recommended some excellent questions above. Notice how those questions shift the focus to the requirements of the job...

Good luck!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, March 29, 2013 5:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thanks M4P,

The interview already happened, and although I thought it was abysmal, I am probably just over analyzing it like I do everything else in life. If this were a specialized job where only one or two people got hired I would have failed miserably, but I'm just clinging to hope that I failed that much less than others compared to my test results to get a foot in the door.

My biggest embarassment came when I actually had to step back a moment and catch my breath and re-compose myself after answering the first question "tell us about yourself" after about 6 hours of build up before the question was asked. I actually said..... "Sorry..... nerves"...... One of the guys said, relax, we're all just Pipe-Fitters here....

Other than that, I think the answers went moderately well.... I don't really remember the bad ones, but I had a few I think were top-shelf answers....

1. "Tell us about yourself".....

After regaining my composure, I told them about my house and the work I've done. I told them that currently I'm working at "the mart" overnight to make ends meet while doing side work painting rooms and remodeling bathrooms and kitchens.

2. "Do you feel that you are good with your hands".

I went on to tell them the story I've told here about how not only was I afraid of blowing myself up while working on a Furnace beforing finding out from my step-dad how NOT to blow myself up, but I figured out and fixed a clogged pilot, a bad thermo-couple, and used HVAC forums online to fix all the sabotaged wiring that I was left with after buying this foreclosure without having to pay a dime outside of the 8 bucks and change for a new thermocouple.

3. "If you're accepted into the union, where do you see yourself in 10 years?"

This, actually, is my favorite answer. At first I said I think I would like to by a few new toys for myself, such as an upgrade to my 17 old year, paid for, Camry. But then I said that I would like to be able to raise a family with it. To be able to do for any of my kids what my dad wasn't able to do until his second marriage. I went on to tell them that my step and half bro both got free college tuition off of academic and sport scholarships and wouldn't owe a dime for them post-graduation and that I believed that it was only because they had a mom that stayed home caring about them instead of a two income home and a third party raising their kids.

4. Do you know anything about welding?

No... I don't. I've been looking into "Blahblahblah" welding center by me but it costs 12k and I can't afford that at the moment. I know that you have a state of the art world class facility and I figure that if I learned from the best from the start that you wouldn't have to "un-teach" a lot of bad habits and I would learn the right way the first time.

The two people I know who are in the union or retired that said they'd help me (and I don't believe they actually lifted a finger) told me that I should be a shoe in with those answers. Not only do I come off as a guy who hustles, but since there is ZERO chance I'd be forced to find a union job after getting my own welding certificate after taking the classes, they'd likely snatch somebody like me up before I took my own classes and went "scab".

We'll see what happens. Right now, I know the final stages of Plan B. I will learn welding skills from a class on my own, on my own dime. At that point, I can get nearly any job I wanted. Sure, it might not be union wages, but if I'm actually employed at what would be an insult even to a welding scab of 20 bucks an hour, I'd pay that debt off in one year. I don't need 45 dollars an hour with benefits to live.

Maybe they're doing me a favor.....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE