Psychiatrist warned 'Batman killer' was a threat by Geezer

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Huh. Even when warned of the danger of a mentally unstable gun nut, police do nothing. That's exactly the solution the NRA has offered to this problem: do absolutely nothing. Oh, except WE NEED MORE GUNS!

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, April 6, 2013 2:18 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Huh. Even when warned of the danger of a mentally unstable gun nut, police do nothing. That's exactly the solution the NRA has offered to this problem: do absolutely nothing. Oh, except WE NEED MORE GUNS!

Well, not really.

http://nraschoolshield.com/NSS_Final.pdf

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:30 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Huh. Even when warned of the danger of a mentally unstable gun nut, police do nothing. That's exactly the solution the NRA has offered to this problem: do absolutely nothing. Oh, except WE NEED MORE GUNS!

Oh. Forgot to ask.

Mike, what's your solution to this problem?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, April 7, 2013 1:01 PM

http://nraschoolshield.com/NSS_Final.pdf

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Kwicko

"That's exactly the solution the NRA has offered to this problem: do absolutely nothing. Oh, except WE NEED MORE GUNS!"

Geezer

Well, not really.

And yet, that is exactly the solution in the pdf link you posted.

Specifically: "No. 2: Adoption of Model Law for Armed School Personnel Many states prohibit anyone other than a sworn law-enforcement officer or licensed security guard to carry a firearm in a public or non-public school. In order for a selected school staff member to be designated, trained and armed on school property, the states will have to change current legal restrictions." Sure sounds like MORE GUNS! to me.

And your solution to places of worship getting shot-up? How about movie theaters? Public outdoor events?

Also, since your answers (when you post any) to, well, whatever else you've posted on, seem to be - 'the system will take care of it', I hope you don't mind if I think of you as a born-again preacher. Sure the specific tenets are different, but the method is the same - have faith in - trickle down, business, capitalism, the army, guns, existing regulations, lawsuit happy citizens - whatever - and it will all work out. You just need to, yanno, have faith and let the miracle unfold. That's your lame-ass sermon and you're sticking o it.

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Sunday, April 7, 2013 4:58 PM

And when it doesn't work out, it's all your fault because you didn't believe hard enough, you didn't pray to the system hard enough, or you just have to endure the sacrifice as part of the price you pay for your faith...

Dubya shouldn't have let the AWB expire. The rate of mass shootings with weapons equipped with high-capacity magazines has gone up quite a bit since the AWB was killed. You could call such mass murder a growth industry; the NRA certainly sees it that way, as they use every such event as an excuse to sell more guns.

Under the old AWB, Adam Lanza would not have had such easy access to the weapons he used. Neither would James Holmes.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, April 8, 2013 5:01 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, that is exactly the solution in the pdf link you posted.

One of many. Seems you ignored the others because they don't fit your preconceptions. How unusual.

Quote:
And your solution to places of worship getting shot-up? How about movie theaters? Public outdoor events?

The same I've been suggesting for quite some time now.

- Require states to send data on involuntary committments to be included in the NICS system.

- Require mental health professionals to warn of patients who they consider are showing homicidal behavior (And, in light of the article I cited in this post, requiring police to act on them).

- Train school counselers to recognize signs of dangerous behavior.

- Implement programs to reduce bullying in schools.

- Stricter penalties and more prosecution of illegal and straw purchases.

Quote:
Also, since your answers (when you post any) to, well, whatever else you've posted on, seem to be - 'the system will take care of it'...

Whereas you believe that banning the sale of "assault weapons" (whatever those are this week), and large capacity magazines will allow the 'system' to take care of it.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, April 8, 2013 5:03 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And when it doesn't work out, it's all your fault because you didn't believe hard enough, you didn't pray to the system hard enough, or you just have to endure the sacrifice as part of the price you pay for your faith...

So what's your solution, Mike?

Or is this another of those questions you'll never answer?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, April 8, 2013 5:47 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Colorado local police interviewed Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, the two Columbine shooters not long before they went on their rampage. The police let them go. I guess wearing Gestapo trenchcoats and talking about killing people at school just didn't pass the smell test for the cops to even seek a warrant to search their homes.

Then there's the great job the Boulder, Colo. police did with the Jonbenet Ramsey murder case. One investigation and evidence screw up after another, and that horrible murder remains unsolved.

Bin Laden would have been better off hiding out in Colorado than in Pakistan. Could have gotten himself a job at the Littleton Dunkin' Donuts, and each morning he would have gotten a friendly "Hi Ben!" greeting from all the Barney Fifes.

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Monday, April 8, 2013 5:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

She's the same US Air Force doctor sued by veterans for secret MKULTRA mind control experiments on US soldiers at Wilford Hall hospital at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio Texas.

Just another coincidence.

Dr. Lynne Fenton, James Holmes' Psychiatrist, Sued By Victim's Widow Over Aurora Theater Shooting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/15/psychiatrist-who-treated-_n_2
481457.html

Dr. Lynne Fenton's Bio that was Deleted from U of Colorado
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/07/dr-lynne-fentons-bio-that
-was-deleted.html

Professor James Holmes' psychiatris reprimanded by the Colorado Board of Medical Examiners in 2005 for “prescribing medication to herself, her husband and an employee.” This included Vicodin, Xanax, Lorazepam and Ambien. Chief of Physical Medicine for the U.S. Air Force at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas (1990-93) and the Staff Physiatrist at Wilford Hall USAF Medical Center at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas (1990-93). MKULTRA jedi master of presidential assassins Dr. Louis Jolyon “Jolly” West was stationed from 1949 to 1956 at Lackland … where he served as chief of psychiatry service at 3700th USAF Hospital. Dr West's mind-control research likely sprang from his studies at Lackland and under the wing of Operation Paper Clip Nazi scientists like Dr. Hubertus Strughold, who, until not so long ago, had a library named after him at neighboring Brooks Air Force Base. Strughold, the “Father of Space Medicine” was also notorious for his role in “wartime experiments on concentration camp prisoners.” We already know Holmes had a keen interest in neuroscience. He had received $26,000 in grant money from the National Institutes of Health to take part in UC’s Ph.D. program in neuroscience.
http://deadlinelive.info/2012/07/30/was-unethical-psychiatrist-the-aur
ora-massacre-gunmans-mind-control-doctor/

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Monday, April 8, 2013 7:31 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I guess wearing Gestapo trenchcoats...

So.... raincoats, which were in fad at the time.... are now "Gestapo"?

Man, you're really striving for crazy of late.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, April 8, 2013 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And when it doesn't work out, it's all your fault because you didn't believe hard enough, you didn't pray to the system hard enough, or you just have to endure the sacrifice as part of the price you pay for your faith...

So what's your solution, Mike?

Or is this another of those questions you'll never answer?

I think it went right past him...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, April 8, 2013 12:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Seems you ignored the others because they don't fit your preconceptions."

You mean in the pdf?

Where they cherry-pick 3 specific examples out of 135 school shooting incidents (since 1970) to 'prove' armed security is necessary.

"As the (three given) above examples demonstrate, the presence of a security guard or off-duty policeman when there is an active shooter is mostly ineffective unless the security officer is armed."

Where they have the gall to ASSUME an armed officer at Columbine 'probably' saved some lives by firing off a few rounds even though he didn't actually hit either of the shooters or keep them from entering the building, or keep them from firing at will. Talk about giving credit where absolutely NO credit is due.

Where they make an off the cuff connection between more SROs nationally (which BTW they define as being armed, anyone not armed is distinguished from SROs as 'un-armed security') and some good feelings, but can't cite statistics for any school or district with actual improved safety against violence.

"Before funding for the program was cut in FY2006, it appeared to have a positive impact on the school environment. For example, students, faculty, and staff reported feeling safer with the presence of SROs on school grounds ..."

Where virtually every reference is a news story or a 'report' written by self-interested self-justifying parties like the National Association of School Resource Officers, and there are NO references to hard data.

Where they misrepresent Clinton's CIS not as the overall program to increase the number of police officers overall, SOME of whom also policed schools as part of their beat; but as an effort to put private armed security who are NOT police officers in schools - as the NRA is attempting to do.

Where they blend together actual police officers trained to work in schools with other armed but private 'security' endorsed by the NRA.

"No. 1: Training A model-training program has been developed by the NSS Task Force (National School Shield Task Force - the rather self-aggrandizing NRA nom de plume of this report) for the professional training of armed personnel in the school environment. Appendix D is the public version of the training outline for law-enforcement school resource officers, and Appendix E is the public version of the training outline for ARMED SCHOOL PERSONNEL"

not necessarily police officers per se, but some kind of armed 'security'.

Did you even read the bullshit you linked?

"The same I've been suggesting for quite some time now."

Yeah, right.

"Whereas you believe that banning the sale of "assault weapons" (whatever those are this week), and large capacity magazines will allow the 'system' to take care of it."

Really. That's what I've posted. Find me the quotes. Oh yeah, and post the links. B/c you've NEVER been known to quote out of context.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Monday, April 8, 2013 12:23 PM

Sounds like the NRA wants to make sure our schools are a lot like our prisons.

Oh, wait - our prisons are better-funded.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, April 8, 2013 4:39 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

BTW Geezer - feel free to debate this. There is a foolproof way to do it - Show that I've misquoted or quoted out of context by providing quotes and links of you own. Show that I have substantially misrepresented the facts by linking to data, and analyzing it; or by citing credible studies focused on this topic drawing statistical correlations and cause and effect mechanisms. Show that I've taken the positions you claim I have by quoting quotes and linking links.

In other words, if you don't want to be characterized as a faith-based preacher - be factual, be logical, and BE SPECIFIC about HOW the mechanisms you're posting about will (or won't) do the job. If you can't show how, then you're just asking us to take it on faith.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:00 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And when it doesn't work out, it's all your fault because you didn't believe hard enough, you didn't pray to the system hard enough, or you just have to endure the sacrifice as part of the price you pay for your faith...

So what's your solution, Mike?

Or is this another of those questions you'll never answer?

I think it went right past him...

So, another question you won't answer.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:14 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

"Seems you ignored the others because they don't fit your preconceptions."

You mean in the pdf?

Yep. The pdf.

Where they suggest developing school security plans and analyses of weaknesses.

Could be little things like being able to lock classroom doors from the inside, and staff being instructed to do so when shots or an alert are heard.

At Sandy Hook, all of the children killed were in classrooms. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/12/us/sandy-hook-timeline/index.ht
ml If there were reasonably stout classroom doors with locks and staff had been instructed to lock them, a lot less folks might have been killed. This would have worked whether Lanza had a rifle, a sword, a chainsaw, a can of gasoline, or a pointed stick.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:16 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
BTW Geezer - feel free to debate this. There is a foolproof way to do it ...

If you're involved, it can't be foolproof.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:32 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
- Require states to send data on involuntary committments to be included in the NICS system.

- Require mental health professionals to warn of patients who they consider are showing homicidal behavior (And, in light of the article I cited in this post, requiring police to act on them).

- Train school counselers to recognize signs of dangerous behavior.

- Implement programs to reduce bullying in schools.

- Stricter penalties and more prosecution of illegal and straw purchases.

I don't know what the first point means, but pretty much all those things are in place where I live.

I think they are all pretty good points. Early intervention with youngsters is better than trying to treat adults with entrenched behavioural issues.

I do believe that there is something inherently sick in western civilisation, and I think the US has it worst.

If you are fed on a diet of junk food, brought up watching endless violent images (and participating in those images via gaming), have a society where social isolation and disenfranchisation is common amongst many groups of people, where wealth and object accumulation as the major focus of people's lives PLUS you have easy access to high powered weaponry, then I think you have serious trouble on your hands.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And when it doesn't work out, it's all your fault because you didn't believe hard enough, you didn't pray to the system hard enough, or you just have to endure the sacrifice as part of the price you pay for your faith...

So what's your solution, Mike?

Or is this another of those questions you'll never answer?

I think it went right past him...

So, another question you won't answer.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

I answered it already, you doddering old fool.

Can you not read? Maybe that metal pole really did hit you in the head.

That you didn't like my answer doesn't really faze me one bit.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:18 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I answered it already, you doddering old fool.

Can you not read? Maybe that metal pole really did hit you in the head.

That you didn't like my answer doesn't really faze me one bit.

So ban the sale of assault weapons and large magazines is your plan? Your whole plan? Ban the weapons used in less than 1/3 of 1 percent of homicides? http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-th
e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 and the magazines you yourself note don't help a shooter fire much faster?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And as Geezer has argued, you don't need a bigger magazine capacity because it only takes a second or less to change mags, so you can't slow anyone down by forcing them to change magazines while shooting.

I expected a bit more than that. There's gotta be more. That's why I asked.

When you or Kiki conveniently 'forget' the suggestions I've been making for the last few months, and claim I believe we should "do nothing", I list my suggestions again.

Seems you could extend the same courtesy.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, April 13, 2013 5:07 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I answered it already, you doddering old fool.

Can you not read? Maybe that metal pole really did hit you in the head.

That you didn't like my answer doesn't really faze me one bit.

So ban the sale of assault weapons and large magazines is your plan? Your whole plan? Ban the weapons used in less than 1/3 of 1 percent of homicides? http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-th
e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 and the magazines you yourself note don't help a shooter fire much faster?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And as Geezer has argued, you don't need a bigger magazine capacity because it only takes a second or less to change mags, so you can't slow anyone down by forcing them to change magazines while shooting.

Rats. I goofed.

Actually, rifles are involved in 2.55% of homicides (in 2011), not 0.255%.

So, given the unlikely assumptions that:

1. All homicides involving rifles were committed with "assault weapons".
2. All folks who wanted to commit homicide with an "assault weapon" who didn't already have one and could not legally buy one would give up.
3. All folks who wanted to commit homicide with an "assault weapon" who didn't already have one and didn't give up couldn't find one illegally.
4. All folks who wanted to commit homicide with an "assualt weapon" would not change their plans and use another weapon.

Mike's gun control suggestions would not protect 97.45% of homicide victims.

Yeah. Much better.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, April 13, 2013 5:59 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Where they suggest developing school security plans and analyses of weaknesses."

Specifics? Like what EXACTLY? How EXACTLY? Yanno, when people throw around phrases like "school security" without getting into the nitty-gritty of what EXACTLY they think needs to be done and how EXACTLY it's going to help, it makes me feel like it's just another hallelujah sermon where we're all supposed to take it on faith that hallelujah! "school security" will provide!

"Could be little things like being able to lock classroom doors from the inside ..."

But was that in the pdf? No, it's your supposition. When challenged to point to something SPECIFIC >> IN THE PDF << you had to invent something. And yet, you asked us to take the pdf as some kind of answer, when clearly it's an empty set of meaningless phrases. Even you, who are preaching the word to us, couldn't find anything. In other words, you're a preacher asking us to take your sermon on faith.

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Saturday, April 13, 2013 6:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

1kiki
BTW Geezer - feel free to debate this. There is a foolproof way to do it ...

Geezer
If you're involved, it can't be foolproof.

I see you skipped right past debating your position on its merits (as I suggested, and which you conveniently left out) and went right to the ad hominem. Pretty weak, old man.

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Saturday, April 13, 2013 6:05 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"When ... Kiki conveniently 'forget(s)' the suggestions I've been making for the last few months ..."

Not so I've seen. Care to link?

Also, be a dear and find where I've posted what you claim I've posted "Whereas you believe that banning the sale of "assault weapons" (whatever those are this week), and large capacity magazines will allow the 'system' to take care of it."

Or go on record as being a liar .... again.

And note, I will hound you with this.

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Tuesday, April 16, 2013 2:55 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Where they suggest developing school security plans and analyses of weaknesses."

Specifics? Like what EXACTLY? How EXACTLY?

Kiki. Their suggestion was that localities DEVELOP school security plans and do analyses of weaknesses.

Develop means that school systems and law enforcement look at individual schools and school systems and create a plan that fits that particular situation. The specifics come AFTER you do an analysis of problems and weaknesses with your security. Where is the school in relation to emergency services? Are the walls concrete or drywall? Are the doors glass or wood or steel? And multitudes of other questions that must be answered for each specific building. Only when this information is collected can useful plans be made.

Or do you think that the same plan should apply to every school in every part of the country?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, April 16, 2013 2:58 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"When ... Kiki conveniently 'forget(s)' the suggestions I've been making for the last few months ..."

Not so I've seen. Care to link?

Since they're in this thread, don't see much need.

Quote:
Also, be a dear and find where I've posted what you claim I've posted "Whereas you believe that banning the sale of "assault weapons" (whatever those are this week), and large capacity magazines will allow the 'system' to take care of it."

Oh. So you don't believe this? Then your solution is "Do Nothing"?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:03 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The specifics come AFTER you do an analysis of problems and weaknesses with your security."

You're the one that claimed your link had answers. All I saw were vague generalities. You'd THINK that will all that supposed expertise on board they could come up with an outline of the more critical factors to look for, instead of you having to guess at what they might be for them.
But all this is focusing way too much on schools, which are a problem - but only a very small part of it. I noticed you had nothing to say about places or worship, outdoor public gatherings, movie theaters and the like. Or deaths by onesies and twosies like a lot of gang violence.

"... I've been making for the last few months ..."

Really? Links, quotes, cites - you know, all the stuff you insist other people provide.

"Then your solution is "Do Nothing"?"

Strawman, and a really obvious one at that. Even sillier than the others. You're slipping, old man.

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Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:41 AM