Boston bombing motive by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Boston bombing motive

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 09:35
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Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:53 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"According to the FBI, once they learned the identities of the two brothers today, the FBI reviewed its records and determined that in early 2011, a foreign government asked the FBI for information about Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The request stated that it was based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer, and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country’s region to join unspecified underground groups.

In response to this 2011 request, the FBI checked U.S. government databases and other information to look for such things as derogatory telephone communications, possible use of online sites associated with the promotion of radical activity, associations with other persons of interest, travel history and plans, and education history.

The FBI said it also interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev and family members, however they did not find any terrorism activity, domestic or foreign, and those results were provided to the foreign government in the summer of 2011. The FBI requested but did not receive more specific or additional information from the foreign government."

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 12:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, what I get out of these various reports is that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was radicalized in the US, not overseas. Perhaps his alienation and lack of friends came after the family fell on hard times, and he realized that he didn't have a single friend b/c his previous 'friends' abandoned him socially after the family's status fell. It would take some tracking down of specifics, and I'm sure there would be some re-writing of history going on if people were interviewed about their relationship with him during that time.

I wonder about the article. It talks about suicide/ rampage killers.

But if the political agenda is clear, as is the mental illness, but the suicide factor is absent like with Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, or Jared Lee Loughner, Gffords' shooter, does that put the person in a different category?

It also I think makes too little of the mental illness factor in spree killers who are clearly delusional and don't appear to have a political, personal, or social agenda when it comes to their choice of target(s), like with James Holmes.

OTOH when you look at someone like Wade Michael Page (Sikh Temple shooter), while his political agenda is clear, his personal pathology or suicidal intention isn't.

It would be interesting if some knowledgeable person were to address these variations in detail, b/c I find the broad brush explanation in the first post to be insufficient.

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 1:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Money grew scarce, and the family went on welfare. Zubeidat was accused of stealing from a department store. Anzor’s business, never prosperous, faded."

Ah, yes the American dream. Money, success, material goods. But the dream never happens for 24.75% of Americans who live in or near poverty. What then? Well, if you're born American and fully propagandized, you blame yourself. If you're not, you more rationally blame the system.

Record U.S. Poverty Rate Holds As Inequality Grows
Today the Census Bureau released its analysis of U.S. poverty in 2011, and the official poverty rate essentially held at 15 percent, meaning that 46.2 million people live below the poverty line.
...
They aren't in poverty, but they are just a step away from falling into its clutches.
More than 30 million (9.75%) Americans are living just above the poverty line. These near poor, often defined as having incomes of up to 1.5 times the poverty threshold, were supporting a family of four on no more than $34,500 last year.

Are you seriously fucking blaming the United States for this family's shoplifting, drug dealing and oh yeah, let's not forget MURDERING ways ?

Unfuckingbelievable.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

So, let me briefly respond to this. Please indicate where I 'blamed' the US for Tsarnaev's actions. All I did was point out that a lot of people in the US could have a legitimate reason to blame government and business for their misery. What they choose to do about it is up to them.

With that in mind, I challenge you to show how I 'blamed' the US for the presumed shoplifting, drug dealing and bombing.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:38 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Choices are made, with the info we have at the time, and we live w/ the consequences.

So... we shouldn't DEMAND better info, is that it Mr. Lapdoggie?

You're such an idiot. A safe little wingnut. Be happy with your lot.

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, let me briefly respond to this. Please indicate where I 'blamed' the US for Tsarnaev's actions. All I did was point out that a lot of people in the US could have a legitimate reason to blame government and business for their misery. What they choose to do about it is up to them.

With that in mind, I challenge you to show how I 'blamed' the US for the presumed shoplifting, drug dealing and bombing.

In a thread titled " Boston bombing motive " , you post this tripe out of Left field, about them having such a hard financial go of it, as some how playing into the reasons for the actions ?

No one has a " legitimate reason " to blow the legs off of innocent bystanders at a road race, to murder an 8 year old child, watching his dad run. Blame govt and business for the piss poor choices THEY made for themselves ? THEY are to blame for their own misery. Not govt or business.

Only this wasn't about hard times and misery, it was about THEM not assimilating to American life, after THEY came here, after they were GIVEN welfare, and after THEY decided to sell drugs and steal. Which is all well and good, if that's what you think you need to do, even though you're breaking the law. And that'll likely bring more consequences. But then to whine about it, and claim your life sucks soooo much ? Please. They don't know what suffering is. They CHOSE to be miserable.

Why ?

Because they were miserable in the first place. Miserable people.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Did I blame the US? Yes or no.

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well rappy, since you bothered to respond in detail, I will too.

Quote:
Saddam did not have enough WMD to form a credible threat to anyone. By 2003, there were only a few remnants of misplaced, forgotten and spoiled chemical and biological shells from 1988.

Wait...He didn't have " enough " ?? I thought he didn't have ANY!! Now you've changed your tune on that note ? Funny.

I only wrote that in because every time I said tht he didn't have ANY, you would point to the old, spoiled, forgotten bits and pieces here and there any exclaim AHA! But he DID have WMD! And there they are! and we would go round and round about how the pieces were decrepit scraps from bygone years. So, Saddam DID have WMD... in 1988. Whatever remained after 15+ years was not a threat to anyone. Capice? The question is... was any of that worth an invasion?

Quote:
And yet, Syria has WMD. Huh.

Yes, because Sarin weapons moved into Syria in 2003 would still be viable today? Not. Sarin is an unstable substance, it would naver last that long. I know this because my team worked with Fort Edgewood Proving Grounds on civilian detection of chemical weapons, so I had to learn quite a bit about them. Whatever you think you discovered, while an interesting idea, is nothing.

Quote:
Remind the folks in Israel that important fact. They were on the receiving end of quite a few scud missiles from where? Oh yeah..IRAQ.

In 1991. Which is why the restrictions were put in place. You seem to have difficulties with timelines... yanno, what happened first, what happened afterwards. Maybe you should have someone look into that.

Quote:
So, now he DIDN'T have WMD, huh? And if he didn't have nuclear program, then I guess that means he didn't have all the others, huh ? Is that how it works ? You can't have one unless you have the whole set ?

He didn't have viable WMD left over from 1988. He wasn't producing any WMD at the moment, he wasn't researching WMD for the future.... How much clearer can I possibly be?? Do you finally get the point?

Quote:
Despite what Rumsfeld said, he did not have WMD deployed anywhere near Baghdad, or anywhere else, for that matter.
OK, if you say so. Your word's good enough for me. ( sarcasm )

Not mine... Bush's. Bush said

Quote:
Now, look, I -- part of the reason we went into Iraq: was -- the main reason we went into Iraq: at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't

The whole inspection team that was sent in AFTERWARDS said so. But don't take anyone's workd for it, use your common sense (if you have any): IF there were WMD deployed around Baghdad in useful quantities in preparation for the American invasion, don't you think someone would have found them? After all, they WERE smack-dab in the path of the invasion.

Quote:
The UN did not ask for our "help" in enforcing the weapons ban. They had their own inspection team - which included USA military and CIA inspectors. In fact, the prospect of USA bombing led to an evacuation when the inspectors were within a few months of completing their task.
Sure, right.

That's not a proof. All you have to do is find ONE statement from the UN asking us to help with their weapons search. Just one. Right now, you got dick.

Quote:
Nor did the last UN resolution on the matter- R1441- allow any nation to invade Iraq at a whim. UN resolutions supersede each other, that is, altho later resolutions reference previous ones, they also CANCEL THEM OUT. So reference to previous resolutions was not carte blanche for invasion.
It wasn't " at a whim ". But that's been gone over and over ad nauseum, so what's the point ?

The point is that you're wrong. About everything.

And you will STILL find none of your best buddies here defending you, because you're an embarrassment.

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Did I blame the US? Yes or no.

Sounds like ya did to me. So, 'yes'.

Why else offer that pile of go-se about their financial problems ? I got news for ya...lots of folks, lots of immigrants, have very little to live on and suffer in lean economic times. BFD. Doesn't drive them to sell drugs or shop lift 100's to 1000's of $'s worth of items from places like Lord and Taylor, does it ? And it sure as hell doesn't drive young married guys w/ a wife and child to spend $ on pressure cooker bombs, guns, and other devices, now does it?

Gee, what WOULD drive someone to do such things ? Hmmm...

And Sig? I was wrong about NOTHING.

You just can't deal w/ the facts because it obliterates your reason for Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Jesus fucking Christ... get over it already.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And Sig? I was wrong about NOTHING.

Sigh, You're wrong, about everything. You've got dick, you know you've got dick, and everyone else knows it too. You were wrong about the economy being ON FIRE too! All you're doing is plugging your ears and saying "Nyah nyah nyah! I can't hear you!. What are you- two years old? Really, not worth wasting any more of my time, but another good chance for all of your buddies here to take a good look at what a pointless loser you are.

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Sounds like ya did to me. So, 'yes'."

Get me that quote where I 'blamed' the US. I'll wait about an hour. Time's a wasting, boy.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So I see you couldn't come back with that quote.

And what you did, btw, was blame me for writing something I didn't write, in effect, blaming me for something entirely your fault - which is your own inability to comprehend the written word.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So I see you couldn't come back with that quote.

And what you did, btw, was blame me for writing something I didn't write, in effect, blaming me for something entirely your fault - which is your own inability to comprehend the written word.

I didn't blame you for writing anything you didn't write. If not your words, you didn't credit the author, but you still posted them, as your own.

And just because you don't come straight out and say the actual words, doesn't mean that's not the message you're trying to convey. So that's 2 strikes against you, at least.

It speaks more to your inability to communicate clearly, as well as your honesty.

But we already know all about those things.

And Sig, you're merely parroting your earlier nonsense. Answering questions which weren't asked, putting out red herrings all around, which weren't part of the discussion. My god, you need professional help.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, April 29, 2013 10:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:

The UN did not ask for our "help" in enforcing the weapons ban. They had their own inspection team - which included USA military and CIA inspectors. In fact, the prospect of USA bombing led to an evacuation when the inspectors were within a few months of completing their task.
Sure, right.
Quote:

That's not a proof. All you have to do is find ONE statement from the UN asking us to help with their weapons search. Just one. Right now, you got dick.

Are you arguing w/ your self or what ? I never SAID that the UN asked for our help , and yet you interject this stuff out of thin air, then go on to answer yourself, as if it was ever something I said.

Me thinks you're a bit too tightly wound up on this matter.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, April 29, 2013 12:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Sounds like ya did (blame the US) to me. So, 'yes'." .
re the above quote: "I didn't blame you for writing anything you didn't write."

Well, yes you did. See above.

"If not your words, you didn't credit the author, but you still posted them, as your own."

Which words were those? Are they the ones you couldn’t quote?

"And just because you don't come straight out and say the actual words ..."

You mean those words you couldn't quote that I didn't post, that you think I claimed as my own?

"doesn't mean that's not the message you're trying to convey."

Well, I out and out told you what my message was. So now you're claiming I didn't mean what I posted, and meant what I didn't post ...

"So that's 2 strikes against you, at least. It speaks more to your inability to communicate clearly, as well as your honesty.

I can't help it that you read words that aren't there, and fail to read words that are there, son. That's on you.

Well, that's been fun! But now I have to address something meaningful, which is definitely not you.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Monday, April 29, 2013 4:33 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And Sig? I was wrong about NOTHING.
Sigh, You're wrong, about everything. You've got dick, you know you've got dick, and everyone else knows it too.

I'm not sure he even has dick.

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Monday, April 29, 2013 11:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

ikiki

And you completely ignored my post, yet again. I gave you 2 quotes, both yours, to which you respond saying I didn't offer you any quotes ?

I'm wondering if this is some sort of game for you, and what point you could have for being such an obvious troll.

And Chrissy, I got man parts a plenty. Why the concern?

Or are you trying to say that those w/ out man parts aren't too bright ? Is that what you think of women ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Best thing about Saddam Hussein was that while he was there, he kept the Iranians-- well, in check is not the right word, but they were so busy fighting him and keeping an eye on him, they didn't have enough left over to get into too much mischief. Then we removed him , and HEY! PRESTO! Iraq is now or will soon be, an Iranian client state.

Good job our side. -HERO

Wow, so you think you're going to bury this thread by spamming the board??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Your threads will die long before this one does!

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Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:50 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Best thing about Saddam Hussein was that while he was there, he kept the Iranians-- well, in check is not the right word, but they were so busy fighting him and keeping an eye on him, they didn't have enough left over to get into too much mischief. Then we removed him , and HEY! PRESTO! Iraq is now or will soon be, an Iranian client state.

Good job our side. -HERO
Wow, so you think you're going to bury this thread by spamming the board??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Your threads will die long before this one does!

Huh? Your reply makes zero sense w/ regards to what you quoted. No 'spammming' on my part is going on, but thanks for sharing w/ us how YOUR mind works.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 1, 2013 6:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...and so the continued attempts to "debate" Rap go on, unabated, and he keeps being an ass.

First of all, when it comes to the idea that the ball was dropped in investigating the Boston bombers and that we should be much more "careful" about letting "some people' immigrate:"

There is "No evidence Boston bomber radicalized before first FBI interview" ([ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/30/no-evidence-boston-bomber-was-rad
icalized-before-first-fbi-interview-sources/#ixzz2S3c1mX4D )

The FBI was given an indication they should check this guy out. Not given details, from what I can find, and NO FOLLOWUP, tho' requested, was provided.

The situation between Russia and the U.S. is such that each is wary of the other and we are hesitant to damn people on their say-so, given their methods and that people they might consider "terrorists" to RUSSIA might actually be asylum seekers and good guys to US.

I heard it twice on the radio but can't find reference (if anyone else can, would be grateful); supposedly the FBI (or whoever) can investigate, but there's some law or other which says if they don't find something that makes it worth continuing after "X" amount of time (I heard I think three months), they aren't allowed to investigate further. I looked briefly but can't find reference to it on line, but I heard it on two different radio stations at different times in the car, so there's SOMETHING out there, I'm just not willing to spend the time looking, especially to refute something as silly as Rap's Monday-morning quarterbacking idea that somehow we "should" have known about these guys. (Of course, I'm sure if DUBYA had been in the White House, they'd have been stopped, in his mind anyway...)

Nobody "blamed" the U.S. for radicalizing these guys, that's idiotic. The fact that a country goes through hard times and some of its people suffer as a result, lose businesses, lose jobs, etc., etc., is quite clearly one of the potential symptoms that makes people "act out", whether mass murder, terrorism, killing spouse/family, or whatever...bad times stress people; repeated bad times within a person's life can have psychological results which cause someone who might have psychological problems in the first place or whatever to do things they wouldn't have done if their lives had continued going well. HOW is that blaming the U.S., except seen through some tortured defensive mentality??

Of course, if one wants to note the fact that the rich have gotten humongously richer at the expense of so many other millions of Americans, and we know who helped THAT happen, I guess someone on the right might see mention of what Dubya and his right-wing buddies did to this country and it's citizens as blaming "the U.S."... But that's HIS problem, not reality.

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Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:12 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

The intellectual dishonesty is that those who think Saddam was a freakin' Boy Scout,

Its adorable how you try to attack others for being intellectually dishonmest - by presenting a completely made up argument that no one has put forth.

You truly are the douche supreme. The king of the straw men. Reighning right wing zealot nutjob. The epitome of asshole baggers.

Congrats.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, May 1, 2013 9:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Rap blows my mind...WHO exactly, on this earth, ever said Saddam was a "Boy scout"?!?! Who ever said anything except that he was a horrible dictator who did horrible things...can someone please identify this person? Because they obviously need help--or does this exist only in Rap's brain?

There are many horrible dictators and others in the world who should not exist and who I think we ALL wish we could get rid of. That is not the issue. CREATING a war with blatant lies and FLATLY ILLEGAL ACTS is the issue. Dubya and Co. didn't give a flying fuck who or what Saddam was; they had their own reasons for wanting to invade Iraq; they lied to the U.N., the world and the American people to do what they wanted to do, period.

None of that is true, of course, in the alternate reality in which Rap resides. In that world, Democrats are all running around saying Saddam was really just a good guy, when in reality he had a working WMD program and was just minutes away from bombing America, right?

I just brought up the thread which details what the BIPARTISAN group determined, after years of investigation by people from the military, POLITICIANS ON BOTH SIDES, government officials, FBI, etc. You want to play your little game, Rap, play it THERE: Refute ANY of what they have shown to be true, I dare you.

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