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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

That poor child will have to live with the fact that he killed his little sister for the rest of his life. Because his parents were negligent enough to make that possible. That's barely fathomable. Just so unnecessary and preventable.

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HALFWAY, OR -- Masked intruders entered a school with real guns and opened fire on meeting room full of teachers using fake "blank" rounds, which make a realistic noise but do not fire a projectile. The men were actually employees of the government school paid to test the terror readiness of the staff. The teachers were terrified, so the drill was evidently a success.

These drills are incredibly dangerous because the people being surprised by the fake attacker may very well fight back with lethal force. There have also been incidents where people experiencing surprise terror drills have had heart attacks or asthma attacks during the panic.

www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/gunfire_an
d_moments_of_fear_as.html

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Could you please just Darwin your crazy ass out of the humnan race as soon as possible?

Thanks.

Signed - The sane world.

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Ditto

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
New NRA slogan: "Be sure to protect your 4-year-old's Second Amendment rights. Give him a lethal toy for his birthday."

Wonder if the kid wouldda passed a background check?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Pretty high price to pay for a lesson in being responsible.

Mom could have just as easily left the back deck to go inside and check on something, and the 2 year old could have fallen in a pool.

Accidents happen. Hopefully you learn from them. If not, expect more of the same.

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Originally posted by Niki2:


What's amusing is that we all know we need cars, they are a fact of life; that they cause death is horrible and we do everything we can, from LICENSING their use to MANDATING safety features in them to putting people in jail for driving them when drunk (even if they didn't cause an accident). Guns, on the other hand, have no such restrictions, despite not being necessary to get a job or function in today's society. In other words, the comparison SHOULD be that we SHOULD license guns, mandate safety features, etc., etc., but it never comes out that way.

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Originally posted by Niki2:


You can't download the chart unless you're a subscriber, so I copied it manually (the original is available at the link).

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
How many 5 year old children drive cars?

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I wonder why the drowning comparison keeps being made. How is it relevant to irresponsibility in gun culture?

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Originally posted by Niki2:
If you missed it in the other thread, as of 2010:

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Guns still kill twice as many children and young people as cancer, five times as many than heart disease and 15 times more than infection, according to the New England Journal of Medicine ( http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1215606 )."

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You can't download the chart unless you're a subscriber, so I copied it manually (the original is available at the link). Think about it:

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Reminder: I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE AWAY ANYONE'S GUNS, remember? I argue for SOME logical restrictions to the number of guns out there and who is allowed to have them. And I certainly argue against children having guns of ANY kind, much less guns hidden in their bedrooms!

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Originally posted by Niki2:
...since we KNOW cars are dangerous and that's why we don't let children play with them.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you have a swimming pool on your property, don't your homeowner's insurance rates go up?

If you're a 16 year-old driver with a Corvette, don't you likely pay higher insurance rates than if you're a 45 year-old mom with a minivan?

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you have a swimming pool on your property, don't your homeowner's insurance rates go up?

If you're a 16 year-old driver with a Corvette, don't you likely pay higher insurance rates than if you're a 45 year-old mom with a minivan?

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Since your homeowners insurance keeps a child from drowning if you're not paying attention.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you have a swimming pool on your property, don't your homeowner's insurance rates go up?

If you're a 16 year-old driver with a Corvette, don't you likely pay higher insurance rates than if you're a 45 year-old mom with a minivan?

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Since your homeowners insurance keeps a child from drowning if you're not paying attention.

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Now where did I say that?

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Odd that you won't apply your "Oh, well - shit happens; whaddaya gonna do?" logic to things like Benghazi or Fast-n-Furious.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Here are some things are five year old is not legally allowed to do.

Drive a car
Vote in an election
Run for office
Have sex
Be employed
Be unattended

So why would it be okay for a 5 year old to own a deadly weapon?

Except on PlanetNRA of course.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you have a swimming pool on your property, don't your homeowner's insurance rates go up?

If you're a 16 year-old driver with a Corvette, don't you likely pay higher insurance rates than if you're a 45 year-old mom with a minivan?

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Since your homeowners insurance keeps a child from drowning if you're not paying attention.

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Now where did I say that?

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If it doesn't prevent accidental injury or death, why bring it up in a discussion of accidental injury or death, then?

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Sometimes I forget just how feeble-minded you've become. Then you jump right in to remind me. Okay, I'll explain it to you like you're a three year-old (someone who should definitely not own guns):

Insurance rates are based on risk factors. If you have a swimming pool on your property, you likely pay higher insurance, especially if you have young children living there.
Likewise, if you let your 5 year-old use your Corvette to go street-racing, you're probably going to pay higher auto insurance premiums.

These "fines" don't prevent you from doing stupid things, but they're designed to make you think twice about doing them and weigh the financial impact of such decisions.

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Odd that you won't apply your "Oh, well - shit happens; whaddaya gonna do?" logic to things like Benghazi or Fast-n-Furious.

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Really odd, since I didn't.

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Derp. That's why I pointed out that you didn't. Thank you for proving me right.

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In this case, I place the responsibility on the parents, who violated pretty much every common-sense gun safety law, as you well know.

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"In this case..." What about Fast-n-Furious? If gun deaths happened with firearms, then isn't it the responsibility of the shooter? Why would you want to hold the president and attorney general responsible for something, when if it were a child you'd hold them entirely blameless and claim it was all just an accident brought about by bad parenting?

Maybe you don't think the drug cartel members had bad parents?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you have a swimming pool on your property, don't your homeowner's insurance rates go up?

If you're a 16 year-old driver with a Corvette, don't you likely pay higher insurance rates than if you're a 45 year-old mom with a minivan?

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Since your homeowners insurance keeps a child from drowning if you're not paying attention.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Originally posted by Geezer:

As noted in the pictures above, kids as young as five do not only drive, but race, cars. They do it with proper safety precautions and with adult supervision.

Kids of five don't know from sex. Unfortunately, if adults responsible for them are careless or greedy, other adults can take advantage of them.

I know kindergartens where children vote for, and are elected to, various offices. Again with adult supervision.

I helped around the house when I was five, and received a dime a week. With - guess what - adult supervision.

Being unattended is the result of an adult's action or inaction, not something a child can do by him or her self.

I am certainly not - and I'm sure the NRA is not - suggesting that five year old kids be turned loose with firearms with no safety precautions or adult supervision. When that happens, bad things may occur, as is obvious from the story above. The parents of these children were neglegent in a major way, and they and their son will suffer for it for quite a while.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:

Does anybody REALLY think that the NRA or the typical NRA member relishes in the death of a child? NRA is damned if it does or doesn't, eh?

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Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:
You mean, like the pro-abortion left?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Insurance rates are based on risk factors. If you have a swimming pool on your property, you likely pay higher insurance, especially if you have young children living there.
Likewise, if you let your 5 year-old use your Corvette to go street-racing, you're probably going to pay higher auto insurance premiums.

These "fines" don't prevent you from doing stupid things, but they're designed to make you think twice about doing them and weigh the financial impact of such decisions.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Well kids of five DONT drive cars here, with or without adult supervision. Maybe we just take better care of our kids.

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As for your other excuses, meh. I've had this argument with others before on this board. Children are not tiny adults, their brains function differently, they have not yet developed a whole range of cognitive functioning around risk and consequences.

As most societies tend to understand this, they don't expect children to be treated like mini adults, but understand that some things they should not be exposed to until they are older. That is why the law requires different things from adults than children.

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It would seem to me to be sensible to prevent children under 18 from owning a weapon with the capacity to kill or maim another.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
What about Fast-n-Furious? If gun deaths happened with firearms, then isn't it the responsibility of the shooter?

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Why would you want to hold the president and attorney general responsible for something, when if it were a child you'd hold them entirely blameless and claim it was all just an accident brought about by bad parenting?

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Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:
You mean, like the pro-abortion left?

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Well kids of five DONT drive cars here, with or without adult supervision. Maybe we just take better care of our kids.

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Umm.

http://www.jqmqld.com.au/

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
One word for you. Queensland.

I note that they run on 5.5 horsepower. Less than a ride on lawnmowers. My car, which is small, runs on about 100 horsepower and many larger ones are around 300. It's hardly comparable. In addition, the safety features include:
"full roll cages, multi-point seat harnesses, full-face helmets, and complete fireproof race suits. "

Basically, you cannot compare owning a 22 caliber 'children's gun' which basically has the same hazards as adult gun, with a tiny engined machine and a roadworthy car. Fail.

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No, I'd prevent them from having access to weapons designed to maim and kill.

Not sure why you can't see that being in a car or pool accident and a child killing another with a weapon, especially a weapon they have been given as a gift are not comparable. Weapons do not equal cars or bikes or pools. As you well know...

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I am pretty sure in the States as well as here, there are lots of laws around the use of pools, bikes, cars. You have to have a licence to drive a car, a permit for a pool, we have pool fence regulations, bike helmet regulations, seat belt laws, drink driving laws.

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And yet any attempt at introducing laws to provide some boundaries around weapon ownership, including some basic background checks is met with outrage.

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You yourself have even called for some fairly draconian treatment of people with mental health issues, happy to have registers galore for them, but not willing to concede that there should be some restrictions around weapons.

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And as for the other insane argument that any legislation begins a slippery slope to banning, then why haven't cars been banned, seeing as we have all these pesky restrictions on what you can and cannot do with them, and who can drive them etc. Surely 'the slippery slope' would have been well slid down by now?

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Originally posted by Niki2:
The ADULTS responsible for Fast and Furious WERE dealt with. As with all your other bullshit, your corollary doesn't hold.

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The NRA doesn't give a damn about who lives or dies, they've become employees of the gun industry and only care about profit. The idea of stashing guns in children's bedrooms shows clearly they just want to sell more guns, period.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Insurance rates are based on risk factors. If you have a swimming pool on your property, you likely pay higher insurance, especially if you have young children living there.
Likewise, if you let your 5 year-old use your Corvette to go street-racing, you're probably going to pay higher auto insurance premiums.

These "fines" don't prevent you from doing stupid things, but they're designed to make you think twice about doing them and weigh the financial impact of such decisions.

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So? There are also laws relating to child neglect, reckless endangerment, etc. You'll note that neither these laws, the possibility of higher insurance premiums, or even the possibility of the death of a child keep people who are negligent in their responsibility from having their kids drown in pools of off boats, drive their corvettes into trees, or shoot themselves or others.

What's interesting to me is that, while failure of responsibility by the parent or supervising adult is the cause of any of these types of deaths, no one calls for a swimming pool ban, or a boat ban, or a car ban.

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