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Originally posted by Hero:
What were you expecting? Free health care. A massive new govt program that works the way it was intended. Oh, maybe lower costs, premiums, and no impact on your take home pay.

It's like every other Obama policy. It costs too much, hurts jobs, is ineffective, and politically slanted towards minorities and unions.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The Patriot Act was passed without even giving us such a satisfying hand jibber.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hey NOB...

Thanks for the serious discourse. Being a politically neutral entity, as well as a socially Liberal and fiscal Conservative, I feel that we need to really find a common ground.

I've moved up to a 50k+ a year job twice in my life from the very bottom. My first job was destroyed by a Rethuglican witch hunt that came up with nothing. My second salary of that caliber was dissolved and sent to India.

In the mean time, your 12 year old kid knows more about new tech than I do now. I used to always be on the front of it all. Today, I haven't bought a "new" pair of jeans outside of a 5 dollar pair from Goodwill.

Sure, I can actually remove a virus from a computer without restarting the whole drive/operating system. So can the "virus makers" also make you think that you're 100% safe on a rebuild but you still are being watched......

Just a tip..... You have to be REALLY negligent for an outside party to have access to your computer's camera, but it can always happen. Cover up the lens with a piece of duct-tape unless you're talking with friends.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Seriously....?

No new replies to this issue still?

I guess I'll just say I told you so when it happens and everyone starts bitching about how they got f--d and didn't see it coming.

Either that, or I'm the only part-time/minimum-wage worker who posts on these boards.

Any way you look at it, I lose....

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Employers pretended for far too long that they cared about the lives of their employees. They don't. They don't give a rat's ass if you, or their other workers, starve to death while working your jobs at the waged they pay. They don't care if they over-work you 'till you drop dead in your tracks. They don't care if you lose your wife and family because you work too many hours. They don't care if you work 60 or 80 hours a week, half of it unpaid or off the books, to accomplish the tasks they require you to complete.

THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN COMFORT. They care about the Health Care Plan for senior executives. They care about being able to travel first class THEMSELVES. They care about the salary programs that MAKE THEM RICH. They care about THEIR memberships at the Country Clubs and Yacht clubs.

THAT'S ALL THEY'VE EVER CARED ABOUT! Socio-political pressures made them give up a little of that attitude for a LONG time. But, "GREED IS GOOD!", remember? It's been quite a while now since those pressures faded. They've given up pretending, long ago.

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The President's original intent was to regulate doctor and hospital prices, and create, among other things, a Canadian style, single payer system. Medicare for all. Certainly to cut insurance companies out of the loop.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


However, I disagree about this:

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The President's original intent was to regulate doctor and hospital prices, and create, among other things, a Canadian style, single payer system. Medicare for all. Certainly to cut insurance companies out of the loop.

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I ALSO remember the debate, very very clearly, as medical care for our daughter is an over-riding concern for her future.

OBAMA took single payer off the table. He did that during negotiations and he said so. Just google Obama takes single payer off table... too many sites to link, but here is the top one
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/03/12/707486/-Baucus-Obama-160-Sing
le-Payer-is-Off-the-Table

Obama assigned Max Baucus as the Senator to draft the bill. Baucus was bought-and-paid-for by the health care industry. There were a CRAP-LOAD of secret meetings associated with this bill, which excluded representation of any real working people.

The second line of defense was the "public option", ALSO favored by a majority of people. Obama promised that in his State of the Union in 2009 (?) .... in one line, way down in the bottom of the speech. I know because I was listening specifically for that, and breathed a sigh of relief. Then he and his administration immediately started backtracking.
Sebelius: Public Health Care Option "Not The Essential Element"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/16/sebelius-public-health-ca_n_2
60511.html
Obama got the health care reform that he wanted, and he didn't even have to get his hands dirty to do it, he just punted it to Baucus and Lieberman.

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Oh, and by the way NOBC- I knew Obama was a company man with his first important appointment in the first week of his Presidency: Tim Geithner, Wall Street insider and bag-man. Obama SHOULD have appointed Shiela Bair, Chair of the FDIC. If anyone knew how to make banks run right, is was she. I heard about that appointment and I thought OH CRAP. I decided two years later, when Obama floated the idea of indefinite preventive detention that he would not get my vote, and have been working hard ever since to get assholes like him out of office. Give up on the Democratic Party, willya? They're not on your side.

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6IX, we've been done in by a bought-and-paid-for Congress. The banks got shoveled trillions. There are only a few Congresspeople of either party who represent you or me. Suport them, ditch the rest. WHen it comes to voting, Green is the best third party IMHO (the rest are either flakes, or they'll stab you in the back too)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, two more things

NOBC- Obama hasn't met a free trade agreement that he doesn't like. Whose side do you think he's on, really???

6IX: The minimum wage needs to be increased, and indexed to inflation. GO find a political group or party that you can work with, and get it done. You got fire in your belly, son. You're justifically angry. Don't drown it with beer, use it.

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Originally posted by kpo:
I can't offer much to this discussion, but I've found interesting what's been shared.

6ix, this thread would've got more attention with a more descriptive thread title. "A personal perspective on Obamacare", or something.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX, I feel for you, I really do. Daughter has the same issue as your brother, except it happened at birth. And the pisser is, if the HMO had chosen to do a C-section for this (very large) baby undergoing (very long) labor, daughter would not have had to face a lifetime of disability.

FWIW, we tried filing a birth injury complaint against the HMO, but the deck is truly stacked:

1) The contract allows only for binding arbitration, not jury trial
2) The amount one can receive is limited by state law to a top dollar amount of $250,000. (Yeah, THAT'LL cover a lifetime of medical care!)
3) Although several doctors described to me exactly what happened, only one doctor would have testified in our favor... and he passed away a month before the hearing.
4) Arbitrators must be mutually acceptable to both parties. However, an arbitrator who consistently finds against the HMO Will find themselves slowly frozen out of business, so the pool of available arbitrators is already biased.

BUT, ENOUGH ABOUT US! I agree with NOBC on this:

Quote:

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Employers pretended for far too long that they cared about the lives of their employees. They don't. They don't give a rat's ass if you, or their other workers, starve to death while working your jobs at the waged they pay. They don't care if they over-work you 'till you drop dead in your tracks. They don't care if you lose your wife and family because you work too many hours. They don't care if you work 60 or 80 hours a week, half of it unpaid or off the books, to accomplish the tasks they require you to complete.

THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN COMFORT. They care about the Health Care Plan for senior executives. They care about being able to travel first class THEMSELVES. They care about the salary programs that MAKE THEM RICH. They care about THEIR memberships at the Country Clubs and Yacht clubs.

THAT'S ALL THEY'VE EVER CARED ABOUT! Socio-political pressures made them give up a little of that attitude for a LONG time. But, "GREED IS GOOD!", remember? It's been quite a while now since those pressures faded. They've given up pretending, long ago.

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However, I disagree about this:

Quote:

---

The President's original intent was to regulate doctor and hospital prices, and create, among other things, a Canadian style, single payer system. Medicare for all. Certainly to cut insurance companies out of the loop.

---

I ALSO remember the debate, very very clearly, as medical care for our daughter is an over-riding concern for her future.

OBAMA took single payer off the table. He did that during negotiations and he said so. Just google Obama takes single payer off table... too many sites to link, but here is the top one
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/03/12/707486/-Baucus-Obama-160-Sing
le-Payer-is-Off-the-Table

Obama assigned Max Baucus as the Senator to draft the bill. Baucus was bought-and-paid-for by the health care industry. There were a CRAP-LOAD of secret meetings associated with this bill, which excluded representation of any real working people.

The second line of defense was the "public option", ALSO favored by a majority of people. Obama promised that in his State of the Union in 2009 (?) .... in one line, way down in the bottom of the speech. I know because I was listening specifically for that, and breathed a sigh of relief. Then he and his administration immediately started backtracking.
Sebelius: Public Health Care Option "Not The Essential Element"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/16/sebelius-public-health-ca_n_2
60511.html
Obama got the health care reform that he wanted, and he didn't even have to get his hands dirty to do it, he just punted it to Baucus and Lieberman.

Oh, and by the way NOBC- I knew Obama was a company man with his first important appointment in the first week of his Presidency: Tim Geithner, Wall Street insider and bag-man. Obama SHOULD have appointed Shiela Bair, Chair of the FDIC. If anyone knew how to make banks run right, is was she. I heard about that appointment and I thought OH CRAP. I decided two years later, when Obama floated the idea of indefinite preventive detention that he would not get my vote, and have been working hard ever since to get assholes like him out of office. Give up on the Democratic Party, willya? They're not on your side.

6IX, we've been done in by a bought-and-paid-for Congress. The banks got shoveled trillions. There are only a few Congresspeople of either party who represent you or me. Suport them, ditch the rest. WHen it comes to voting, Green is the best third party IMHO (the rest are either flakes, or they'll stab you in the back too)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX: The minimum wage needs to be increased, and indexed to inflation. GO find a political group or party that you can work with, and get it done. You got fire in your belly, son. You're justifically angry. Don't drown it with beer, use it.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's hard to have a decent health care system when a great proportion believes that public health is 'something that can never work'. I had this conversation many times years ago with Americans, despite that fact that every other western nation has a public health system. Obviously some better than others. It surprised me to realise that other models were not even considered when the whole issue was being debated. Such is the problem with American exceptionalism.

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