The Insult Thread by Magonsdaughter

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
because we know Kwicko just sets AuRaptor off and vice versa

But MANY people set each other off here, which is a large part of the very issue.

Quote:
Kwicko and Auraptor will attempt to use their mutual antagonism as a loophole to trick their counterpart into contributing more insults and skewing the results.

I'm not sure I'd attribute that intent to either of them, it's also possible they just react to one another; my suggestion would be that we IGNORE both of them if they turn this into another "Mike v. Rap" post-fest. Or, as you put it, "keep this on the level" and not let them thread-jack it into an actual insult thread.

At the same time, I note quite a bit of difference between the verbiage utilized by each, and for ME, that is a valid part of the discussion. It's the instant escalation--frequently with NO incitement--to really nasty verbiage which I have found frustrating and which has contributed to me sinking almost to their level. For me, that's a valid point.

But that they SHOULD ignore one another...for ten seconds, even. All we can do is ask, at least in this thread...

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 6:52 AM

Quote:
But MANY people set each other off here, which is a large part of the very issue.

Hmm. Yeah, okay. Maybe an accurate measure of the insults used when people aren't involved in conflicts with their nemesis is a different thread.

Quote:
I'm not sure I'd attribute that intent to either of them, it's also possible they just react to one another

Well, that's also possible, or the third option is I just gave them the idea. It's hard to tell sometimes what's going on.

Just seemed worth calling it out in case anyone did have that idea. Heck if I was still trolling, I'd try to win the title myself. It would be a laughably pathetic effort on my part with obviously forced weak insults everywhere.

I suppose that counts as one insult on my part, though. Implying that people might cheat.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:12 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Kinda funny, but far more sad: Rap and Mike turned the "Insult Thread" into an INSULT THREAD!!!

Hey, I'll step up here! I started it. I took a shot at Rap. He stepped on one of my pet peeves.

But Byte is right: this thread WANTS to be NAUGHTY. The PN side of my personality is giggling like a maniac in its coat with the really long sleeves right now, just trying to get out and cause more mischief.

E-T-A: There used to be a running thread, in General Discussions, I think, about grammar and usage for fan fic writers. 'S been gone for awhile. Woulda been a better place for this particular discussion.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:39 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The difference to me, NewOld, was that you noticed something and commented on it. People do that all the time; I've been chided for misspellings and grammar and stuff, it's no big deal and I actually appreciate it. It's how Rap's response escalated to REALLY NASTY insults almost immediately that is telling, for me, and is a prime example of what I see and what happens to me constantly. The animosity which exists and makes itself immediately evident, in virtually every post some of us put up, is an issue.

Here's a prime example. I put up a thread ( http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=55228) which was POSITIVE about Rand Paul. At the end he said he was trying to grow a Sequoia in Kentucky, which I found amusing because that will be difficult, if not impossible (at least for them to grow to maturity and live a long time). I phrased it "Someone should tell him a Sequoia can't grow in Kentucky....Sequoias require moist, rich, balanced ph, and well-drained soil. Pretty tricky recipe, but I wish him luck."

Rap's response?

Quote:
Yes. There needs to be a govt official who forbids him from even trying, huh?

Good grief. If he tries and it doesn't grow, maybe he'll learn his lesson.

Or maybe he won't.

As Hillary would say... what difference does it make ?

Just don't tell the sequoia where it can and can't grow.

He snarked and stuck his tongue out at me. That illustrates perfectly what I run into in so many of the things I put up; if Rap or someone on the right can find ANYTHING to diss in the post, they'll highlight it and take a swipe at me. That is, in my opinion, a large part of the mentality that this whole "insult" thing revolves around. Just as he claimed what we've quoted earlier was "no insult", when I asked him about writing the above nasty comments, he claimed "I wrote none". When I responded

Quote:
My comments weren't in any way a put-down of Mr. Paul or his efforts to grow a Sequoia, I think it's neat--and by the way, there are many of them growing all over the country, planted by people with the same idea as he.

I got back "Then why bother w/ what you said in the first place?"

Do you see what I'm saying? The existing animosity is such that offense is taken even when none is intended, the response isn't considered even an insult or nasty, and I'm taken to task for just having made an innocent passing remark. I think that illustrates something very valid about this whole "insult" thing and the mentality on FFF. Essentially, some of us here are not ALLOWED to be moderate, we're attacked whether we are or not, and I'm sure it works in reverse as well. That's my point. Some here are just POISED to attack, no matter what they are reading.

And maybe I'm just pissing in the wind with any hope of changing anything. But for me, it's worth the try. Again.

ETA: It would be nice if nobody did try to turn this into an insult thread for real. I think it's a valid experiment and, maybe aside from a few, wouldn't people like this place to be less vitriolic? Or am I pissing in the wind on even that? Heaven knows enough people complain about it often enough, and many have left because of it.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:06 AM

I... honestly can't tell if AURaptor was just trolling there. My gut instinct says he can't possibly have been serious, and was tweaking you when you took him at face value, but it's a feedback loop of doubt.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:12 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Yes. There needs to be a govt official who forbids him from even trying, huh?" --Given our past interactions, that's a snark, not a tweak, in my opinion. When I put it together with MYRIAD other exchanges, where he pretty much always goes out of his way to respond negatively (and yes, one might say "troll") to what I post, it's pretty clear.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 10:03 AM

It's such a random jump though, and I know that AuRaptor is capable of logical jumps, but this was almost like a self-parody. Like what someone would post if they were playing up to some "ruffled feathers right wing person defending Republican party leadership" stereotype.

The teasing little tongue stick out thing just casts more question onto the mystery. Was AuRaptor making fun of himself a little and winking about it?

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:20 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, Byte, he was not. Rap has never, even once, shown any indication of self-parody, self-deprecation or self-humor, and you know it. I wish he DID; he'd be more human and I could respect him some.

Don't know why it's important enough for you to keep trying to find ways to think he was joking; he was not, simple as that. It's part of a long-existing pattern which is easy to recognize.

Has it completely escaped you that, at least when addressing anyone he considers on the "left" or disagreeing with him, Rap simply IS the stereotype of a "ruffled feathers right wing person defending Republican party leadership"? I don't know how you could have missed that, given some of the responses he posts...

To show you he wasn't joking, the remainder of the exchange went as follows:

Niki:

Quote:
So what inspired your snarking at me about it, a snark having absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread, referring to government official forbidding him planting one? Just your dislike of me, or something else?

ETA: I just realized I wrote "can't grow in Kentucky"--I should amend that to "may have difficulty growing in Kentucky".

Rap:

Quote:
Actually, a dislike for your political views. Just to be clear.

And yes, " can't grow " has a different twist than " may have difficulty ".

The former has a negative, authoritarian tone to it, while the latter is based more in an informative message.

Note that he AFFIRMED that it was a snark, and also affirmed his dislike. He read a "negative, authoritarian" tone into my saying someone should tell Rand Paul a Sequoia won't grow in Kentucky, a statement which was actually a light-hearted, off-the-cuff remark and nothing more.

Respectfully, can you see by now that your PERCEPTION was wrong? That's not meant as a snark, it's meant to reinforce things I've said to you that sometimes, depending on who it is, you perceive things different than they are. I would say sometimes (only sometimes) it depends on WHOSE words you are perceiving.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:45 AM

It's not that it's important for me to clear his name or that AURaptor doesn't tend to target you in particular, I know he does, and so what you took away from that post is not unreasonable.

But there was enough of something there in the first post at least, some kind of tone, that made me think, wait a minute, and then squint and wonder. And once my "is this trolling" double take has been tripped, it's hard for me to read the rest of AuRaptor's responses as serious. I honestly can't tell if he is or isn't there.

I think that this perception argument that you have been directing towards me lately is a bit unfair. Yes, I have an altered state of consciousness, so everything I experience must be imagined? This was bothering me in the other thread, and it bothers me now. I "perceive" insults towards myself that have often turned out to be entirely warranted and accurate.

I say now what I say then, please stop telling me I'm imagining things. With my volatile and easily malleable mental state where I am paranoid about everything, including my own judgement, I have a hard enough time figuring things out. In the very least, it's real to ME.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Hey, RAP, this is an INSULT THREAD. I'm saying it right out loud, and it's aimed square at YOU: "You're too dumb to have learned public high school English. SO any opinion you express is too DUMB to be given the respect we'd give an 8th grader."
And this will be the third time I've said this , also aimed directly at
YOU : You're pretentious, phoney and egotistical.

And you're wrong, on all counts.

Sucks to be you, I guess.

And Niki, why must I say this yet again ? You stated that he CAN'T grow a tree in Kentucky, not that he shouldn't, or that it would be difficult. You even went on to say one HAD already grown, so it wasn't so much an issue of 'ability', but instead came off as your flatly stating he shouldn't be ALLOWED.

Ya might want to see to that.

PS - And yes, I did unabashedly affirm my dislike for your POLITICAL views, but not you personally. I figured you'd catch the difference.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:53 AM

MAL4PREZ

That's a very good example, Niki. I have noted before how Rap is almost always the first to reply to any of your threads with just such a post. He is right on top of turning things into partisan personal bickering over tiny details, thereby destroying even the slightest chance at rational discussion.

This makes him completely a troll imo. And a bit of a stalker. Funny, that his method didn't work so Jongs took over with a different approach: flooding the board. These two are the Mean Girls of the board, aren't they, with their obsession with going after Niki?

As for counting insults: this has been done. It wasn't long ago, I don't think. Does anyone remember who did it? Someone counted insults over one or two weeks, without saying they were doing it, and then posted the results. Didn't Rap say that if he came in the top three he'd give himself a month time out, and then he was #2 and he really did go away? And didn't KPO win?

I could be remembering the details wrong, and can't find the thread. Anyone know?

ETA: a-ha! Riona did it. A thread about it is here:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51269&mid=8
87393

though I haven't gone through it to see if I remembered right.

ETA2: Sorry KPO. It was Kiki in first place. I did remember that there was a "K" involved, but not which one. But Rappy did indeed get second.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:58 AM

Riona got in trouble for it... though it was partially because I think she kinda unwittingly biased her own results, and I say that as a friend.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:05 PM

yeah, it was Rione. The only thing wrong in what she did was she wasn't transparent about it. She tallied it herself without letting others knowing what she was doing, and when I asked her to give an example (just curious as I was on the list) she couldn't.

This thread may very well be a stupid idea.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:08 PM

"Jerk" Magonsdaughter to Jongstraw

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:12 PM

Quote:
And Niki, why must I say this yet again ? You stated that he CAN'T grow a tree in Kentucky, not that he shouldn't, or that it would be difficult. You even went on to say one HAD already grown, so it wasn't so much an issue of 'ability', but instead came off as your flatly stating he shouldn't be ALLOWED.

Ya might want to see to that.

PS - And yes, I did unabashedly affirm my dislike for your POLITICAL views, but not you personally. I figured you'd catch the difference.

*head tilt*

This only further clouds the issue. I no longer have any idea what is going on here.

I think this is why I tend to avoid reading any of the more vitriolic exchanges in the other threads. Honestly can't tell if people are serious.

Niki, I rescind all comments on AuRaptor because I'm clearly not qualified to offer them in this case.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:32 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Kinda funny, but far more sad: Rap and Mike turned the "Insult Thread" into an INSULT THREAD!!!
Quote:
Stop this phoney b.s. of pretending that your grammar nazi routine is anything other than juvenile pettiness

Rap at his best; his first offering in a thread attempting to encourage people not to insult, and it's not a quote of an insult, it IS an insult. And he even claims "Not an insult"! That fascinates me; does Rap actually believe the above sentence isn't an insult?!?! SERIOUSLY??

I think we should draw a distinction between personal insults and every other type of snark/rudeness. There's no personal insult in the above quote; Auraptor is accusing NOBC of acting phoney, juvenile and petty. And he was responding to this:

"Just noticed, Ol Rap still struggling with English."

"I also remember hearing that using I in that fashion was pretentious, phoney, and egotistical. I leave you to draw your own conclusion."

There are implied insults there, and this to my mind excuses Auraptor's aggressive tone.

Also Auraptor's grammar was completely correct.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:39 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
ETA2: Sorry KPO. It was Kiki in first place. I did remember that there was a "K" involved, but not which one. But Rappy did indeed get second.

I think my one insult was calling Auraptor a "snivelling coward" when he chickened out of our libertarian duel...

I still stand by that.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:40 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Type 2:

kpo calls Auraptor a snivelling coward

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 2:09 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 2:32 PM

I use bad grammar
Whenever I can't be arsed
Then say it's free verse

They don't understand my VISION
Lol no
Just lazy
Even gave up on haiku

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 4:13 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
I think my one insult was calling Auraptor a "snivelling coward" when he chickened out of our libertarian duel...

I still stand by that.

It's not personal. It's just war.

Was the the 'who's a better Libertarian ' nonsense?
There was no 'duel'. Just a test to see who could copy / paste what you could find on the interwebs. I wasn't impressed enough to play. Sorry.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:13 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
so everything I experience must be imagined?

I NEVER SAID THAT. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT. But it's a prime example. And it's not a "perception argument", I've been trying to HELP, in my own stupid way, by saying that sometimes how you read things isn't how they are written, and sometimes you perceive an insult where none exists. Pertinent point: SOMETIMES. Far, FAR from "everything", and not at all "imagined". This is a prime example; I tried to illustrate how your perception that Rap was joking/teasing/whatever was an incorrect one, that he's deadly serious and always is with me in the area of politics, as an example, as ONE example, in the hopes it would help you understand what I'm trying to say. To you that TRANSLATES into my ARGUING that everything you experience must be imagined.

There it is. That's not at all what I'm saying; quite a lot of the time you are right on, most of the time you get a good grasp of people, but in some cases, yes, I think you misperceive/misunderstand things. It's no biggie except that you also are pretty easily insulted/offended, so when you perceive something as an insult or are offended by it, when no insult or offense was offered, don't you see how that only hurts YOU, and causes confusion and bad feelings, where none need to exist? THAT's my point; that if you could find a way to look at things twice, or maybe three time, and more than anything I guess ASK the person what they mean, I think it would make things better FOR YOU. I got no skin in this game, I just wish I could help; I see you getting angry, "furious", and "hating" people, and sometimes I don't think it ever needed to be that way, so I wish I could help. That's ALL.

Quote:
qualified to offer them in this case

Note that my joking "someone should tell him..." was interpreted quite concretely by Rap as my saying "he SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED"...there's his misperception, based on the veil through which HE reads what I write... He completely misses that you can say to someone "that can't grow there" without it having anything whatsoever to do with STOPPING the person from trying. We ALL misperceive, every single one of us. We're biased. We're humans.

You are TOTALLY qualified to offer comments on anyone or anything, just as much as every other person here. What's wrong with offering them, and maybe someone else having a different take? We can NONE of us know what actually goes on in Rap's mind, much less anyone else's, so it's all guesswork in the end anyway. But your qualifications are as good as anyone else's. Bear in mind, I read what Rap writes to me through the "veil" of our long interaction, so in such a case as this I might have a "leg up" on you...when it comes to how he interacts with YOU, you've got a leg up on ME, see?

KPO, I heartily disagree. I think the "grammar nazi" remark was quite obviously intended as a personal insult, and was quite clearly calling Mike juvenile and petty. You can pick so many nits that people can wiggle out of any responsibility for what they write except for truly outrageous nastiness, and there are enough ways I've read just today of people being "subtly" nasty as it is. By your definition, Rap's "struggling with English" is an ACTION, too, as was "being pretentious", etc.

I do, however, concede that I, too, am still on the fence about the "better than I" thing. It seems fine to me, and I don't know how we could definitively determine which is more correct.

Mal4,

Quote:
I have noted before how Rap is almost always the first to reply to any of your threads with just such a post. He is right on top of turning things into partisan personal bickering over tiny details, thereby destroying even the slightest chance at rational discussion.

Bingo. That's how I immediately knew he wasn't joking. Rap never jokes with me on ANY subject that might even conceivably be political; he attacks, dismisses and snarks. Invariably. And yes, it has felt pretty much like stalking, often. But I would give prize for "Mean Girl on the Board" where I'm concerned to Six, hands down. Luckily by not reading his posts I don't know about it unless someone quotes him, but I'm sure it continues unabated. Given the threads he and a few others have put up specifically to/about me, I found the recent threads about Jong and KPO downright mild in comparison. All in all, Rap and Jong are lightweights.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:23 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Kinda funny, but far more sad: Rap and Mike turned the "Insult Thread" into an INSULT THREAD!!!
Quote:
Stop this phoney b.s. of pretending that your grammar nazi routine is anything other than juvenile pettiness

Rap at his best; his first offering in a thread attempting to encourage people not to insult, and it's not a quote of an insult, it IS an insult. And he even claims "Not an insult"! That fascinates me; does Rap actually believe the above sentence isn't an insult?!?! SERIOUSLY??

I think we should draw a distinction between personal insults and every other type of snark/rudeness. There's no personal insult in the above quote; Auraptor is accusing NOBC of acting phoney, juvenile and petty. And he was responding to this:

"Just noticed, Ol Rap still struggling with English."

"I also remember hearing that using I in that fashion was pretentious, phoney, and egotistical. I leave you to draw your own conclusion."

There are implied insults there, and this to my mind excuses Auraptor's aggressive tone.

Also Auraptor's grammar was completely correct.

It's not personal. It's just war.

And I've copped to it elsewhere: I was taking a shot at him. I get annoyed at someone or something, beyond disagreeing, pissed off, I take a shot. I usually do it with a needle, rather than a brickbat, but I do it.

Not afraid, nor ashamed, to hold myself up as a bad example. Not saying I was, or did, wrong, but maybe I could have criticized him in that grammar/usage thread.
I do think I still disagree with YOU: his usage was incorrect. I went to some length to check it, and posted a lot of long detailed examples and explanation.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 5:07 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I figured you knew what you were talking about, NewOld, and that's why I bowed to your opinion. I'm used to just sounding it out in my head, and I do, often, with stuff like that, because I'm not sure. Sounding it out either way didn't seem wrong to me, so I accept your determination. A small thing any way we look at it, and to me not deserving of "Nazi"...

"I get annoyed at someone or something, beyond disagreeing, pissed off, I take a shot"--made me smile. You sound like me, except I would substitute "irritated" for "pissed off", 'cuz I rarely feel as strongly here as "pissed off"... ;o)

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 5:14 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
KPO, I heartily disagree. I think the "grammar nazi" remark was quite obviously intended as a personal insult, and was quite clearly calling Mike juvenile and petty.

Read again what he said:

"Stop this phoney b.s. of pretending that your grammar nazi routine is anything other than juvenile pettiness"

Where does he say that Mike IS a grammar nazi, or a juvenile or petty person? He simply accuses Mike of behaving that way. It's the same distinction you make with a child who is misbehaving, you mustn't say, "You're a naughty boy!" You have to say it like, "You're acting naughtily/Your behaviour is very bad." Now it could be that the child IS naughty; but you still shouldn't directly say it as it can influence how the child comes to think of himself. For me it's the same thing with adults and basic civility. If someone is being childish, or foolish or hypocritical you should be allowed to call them out on it. But that's not the same as directly calling that person an 'immature, foolish hypocrite'.

Quote:
By your definition, Rap's "struggling with English" is an ACTION

It's implying stupidity though.

As for,

"I also remember hearing that using I in that fashion was pretentious, phoney, and egotistical. I leave you to draw your own conclusion."

I read that as implying that Auraptor IS pretentious, phoney, and egotistical (mainly because of the drawing conclusions bit). But that's more open to interpretation.

All in all there's bound to be some disagreement about what exactly constitutes an insult. But so long as its all transparent how things get tallied up, then the results of this thread will have real value I think.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 5:30 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I do think I still disagree with YOU: his usage was incorrect. I went to some length to check it, and posted a lot of long detailed examples and explanation.

I don't care that much tbh. A quick google search seems to suggest that 'better than me' or 'better than I' is accepted. I use both, but in rappy's instance I would definitely say it how he did.

"Jongs could answer better than I."

Because the expanded sentence of what's being said is: "Jongs could answer better than I (could)." Using 'me' would sound funny to my ear. That's not to say it's not common.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 7:04 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
I do think I still disagree with YOU: his usage was incorrect. I went to some length to check it, and posted a lot of long detailed examples and explanation.

I don't care that much tbh. A quick google search seems to suggest that 'better than me' or 'better than I' is accepted. I use both, but in rappy's instance I would definitely say it how he did.

"Jongs could answer better than I."

Because the expanded sentence of what's being said is: "Jongs could answer better than I (could)." Using 'me' would sound funny to my ear. That's not to say it's not common.

It's not personal. It's just war.

Well,I'm done arguing about it. I could dig up the link where they wrote about the improper usage becoming more and more common over a period of years. I could quote from my example post where I used an example that changes it back if you explicitly include the verb. Still not correct usage in the places where I learned to write.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 3:11 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
I do think I still disagree with YOU: his usage was incorrect. I went to some length to check it, and posted a lot of long detailed examples and explanation.

I don't care that much tbh. A quick google search seems to suggest that 'better than me' or 'better than I' is accepted. I use both, but in rappy's instance I would definitely say it how he did.

"Jongs could answer better than I."

Because the expanded sentence of what's being said is: "Jongs could answer better than I (could)." Using 'me' would sound funny to my ear. That's not to say it's not common.

It's not personal. It's just war.

Both are acceptable, and I can't for the life of me see how this is remotely an issue for anyone to fuss over, but sure enough, it is. I have to conclude that those doing so are simply looking for things to bitch about, and in failing, they'll make up something, and will grasp at any straw.

" better than I (could)." is precisely what was in my mind as I was posting the reply. As fans of any of Joss's shows, I presume folks here are a bit more open to less than text book grammatical usage, and would just go w/ the flow. But there seems to be selective acceptance for such things.

No big.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:47 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You know what's interesting? I gave up on this and didn't even bother to reply, because it ISN'T that important, but when I came back I noticed something.

Rap hasn't posted in this thread once that I can see except to defend himself or snark. It made me wonder how many of his responses I've ever seen (except to those he agrees with) which AREN'T a snark--or insult if you will--in one form or another. This last one was an insult; you can parse all you want, KPO, I would say we should count insults, period. Rap is perfectly capable, as are most of us, in couching things in terms which he can denies are insults or you can say insult "actions", not the person. Let's be blunt about it; an insult is anything that contains derogatory terms regarding the person or post it is aimed at, period.

We can get into all kinds of games, of being careful "how" we write things so we can claim they're not insults--that's precisely what Rap DOES and everyone knows it. He doesn't do it well, as his insults are pretty blatant, but what you're arguing, KPO, would give him an out virtually every time. I count a snark as a snark; the only exception would be a misunderstanding which the two people involved clear up as not INTENDED as an insult. This is on its way to becoming a "game", and I think it's a game Rap has been playing all along anyway; he snarks to get people's goats, and he's well on his way to turning this thread into just another one of those, as I see it.

"YOUR Nazi grammar routine" aims it squarely at an individual, what follows reflects the individual; the insult was obvious and blatant, in my opinion, as were the others. Do we really have to "debate" a snark when we know what it is?

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 11:53 AM

Rap is trolling this thread.

HIlarious

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 12:24 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:\\Kinda funny, but far more sad: Rap and Mike turned the "Insult Thread" into an INSULT THREAD!!!

Well, not so much my doing, but seriously, who didn't see it comin' ?

Quote:

Quote:
Stop this phoney b.s. of pretending that your grammar nazi routine is anything other than juvenile pettiness

Rap at his best; his first offering in a thread attempting to encourage people not to insult, and it's not a quote of an insult, it IS an insult. And he even claims "Not an insult"! That fascinates me; does Rap actually believe the above sentence isn't an insult?!?! SERIOUSLY??

Not a belief, Niki, I know.

It's no different than someone saying * " don't get stuck on stupid ! " , where the intent isn't to insult, but to display genuine disbelief and disappointment that folks could be so wrapped up in petty 'snarking' that the bigger picture is lost and forgotten.

*

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:00 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Rap hasn't posted in this thread once that I can see except to defend himself or snark.

He defends himself a lot - but he's attacked a lot.

Quote:
This last one was an insult; you can parse all you want, KPO, I would say we should count insults, period.

So would I, and I'm dismayed that only Rap agrees with me on what a suitable definition of an insult is... We can either define an insult as:

a) Calling someone something derogatory, or implying that they are

b) Anything that can offend people

To be clear, saying that somebody is ACTING petty, for example, is not implying that they ARE a petty person. We can all have petty moments.

Now the problem with b). When you accuse Rappy and Mike of "bickering" - is that an insult? Because Rap and Mike might be offended by it. Even if bickering is exactly what they were doing. If you're arguing with a conservative and he's being hypocritical, and you say, "Excuse me, you're being hypocritical." Is that an insult? What else are you supposed to say if that's what he's doing? We have to be free to criticise BEHAVIOUR, without being labelled as abusive for doing so.

Quote:
Rap is perfectly capable, as are most of us, in couching things in terms which he can denies are insults or you can say insult "actions", not the person.

Saying someone is acting dumb, or petty, is much politer than saying they ARE dumb or petty. That's not being sly or cunning, that's being civil. And if you've recognised that Auraptor is rarely directly abusive, and I would agree, then maybe consider that that's no accident. Auraptor is always loudly, defiantly partisan, stubborn, and wrong about everything; but he is also someone who operates by a code of basic civility, even to his enemies. He's a decent person who gets provoked a lot, and whose main flaw is not letting things go.

Anyway that's my honest take.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 8:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"but he is also someone who operates by a code of basic civility"

Like when he calls people 'libtards' and 'feminazis', 'stupid' or 'dumb'? You mean like that?

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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Type 2:

kpo calls Auraptor a snivelling coward

It's not personal. It's just war.

Yeah, you should have said he was ACTING like a sniveling coward, because that way it wouldn't be insulting at all.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"but he is also someone who operates by a code of basic civility"

Like when he calls people 'libtards' and 'feminazis', 'stupid' or 'dumb'? You mean like that?

Or when he suggests that a congressman should be "put down like a rabid dog"?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:25 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Type 2:

kpo calls Auraptor a snivelling coward

It's not personal. It's just war.

Yeah, you should have said he was ACTING like a sniveling coward, because that way it wouldn't be insulting at all.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

I could've referred to his 'cowardly behaviour' - that would've been less insulting. But I was aiming for insulting.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:37 PM

This is definitely NOT an insult, because I'm not saying it, or even saying anyone's acting like this; I'm just posting a funny picture. If anyone is insulted, then they must think they're an idiot.

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Friday, June 7, 2013 5:05 PM

MAL4PREZ

Sorry, but Mike wins this one.

One of my favorite phrases, not that I'm saying it about anyone here of course, but...

"I'll stop calling you a moron when you stop being a moron."

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 2:28 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I've got an idea; how about we go back to posting insults, as perceived by the person who chooses to post them, and not debate what IS an insult? I think we all know perfectly well what's an insult; it's almost like KPO has chosen a "side"--Rap's in this case--and is determined to nit pick what's insulting and what isn't. That's bullshit, in my opinion, and I'll say so.

It's like they both know the game: "If you phrase it such-and-such, you can say it's not an insult". As has been shown, that can be played by anyone, but it's not the point of the debate we've been having, or of this thread. I assume this game is why Rap has the gaul to say "that wasn't an insult", but that's also bullshit.

If someone feels insulted, posts it, and the person making the insult wants to work it out with them, that's their business. Otherwise, I'm not getting into arguments about what constitutes an insult, and I'm not going to let Rap troll this thread, as he has said quite clearly he is intent on doing. Everyone has to choose how they will deal with it.

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 1:38 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I've got an idea; how about we go back to posting insults, as perceived by the person who chooses to post them, and not debate what IS an insult?

Yeah, if there's no consensus I suppose best to just keep it simple. So long as it's explained in the final reckoning what's counted as an insult and what's not, it'll have some value.

Quote:
I think we all know perfectly well what's an insult

I personally don't see how "Who whizzed on your cornflakes this morning?" can be an insult, but fine. Snark = insult.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 2:34 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Uhhh...snark:

Quote:
1. Combination of "snide" and "remark". Sarcastic comment(s).

2. Use of sarcasm or malice in speech.

3. Biting, cruel humor or wit, commonly used to verbally attack someone or something.

4. Verbal ingenuineness that is brief, subtle, yet quite stabbing. snark is often marked by deep creativity & use of psychological attack. It employs coldbloodedness and is best served unprovoked. Snark can contain hidden complimentary meaning under a mean face, but it hurts more than it strengthens. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snark

Unless it's done in friendly jest (and indicated as such in one way or another), I believe a snark is pretty much defined as an "insult"...at the very least, not meant kindly.

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:02 PM

I'm fine with whatever you find insulting.

As I explained earlier in the thread. Some people post very direct insults, others can be nasty in a much more subtle way. I think its fine to call out both kinds, because I expect the subtle meanies are used to playing the innocent or the victim in conflict situations.

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I hadn't stepped into this thread until now, and I HOWLED my way thru it!!! Oh, dear. I don't think it's having the intended effect, but still... *wipes tears from eye*... I haven't laughed this hard in a long time!

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Saturday, June 8, 2013 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

There are implied insults there, and this to my mind excuses Auraptor's aggressive tone.

This kind of implies that some insults/put downs are okay if the other person's behaviour warrants it. Isn't that how conflict just perpetuates itself when people start justifying crappy behaviour because the other person deserved it?

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 2:29 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Some people post very direct insults, others can be nasty in a much more subtle way....the subtle meanies are used to playing the innocent or the victim in conflict situations. This kind of implies that some insults/put downs are okay if the other person's behaviour warrants it. ... conflict just perpetuates itself when people start justifying crappy behaviour because the other person deserved it

As almost always: Go Magons.

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 5:51 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

There are implied insults there, and this to my mind excuses Auraptor's aggressive tone.

This kind of implies that some insults/put downs are okay if the other person's behaviour warrants it. Isn't that how conflict just perpetuates itself when people start justifying crappy behaviour because the other person deserved it?

I'm saying a combative tone is sometimes excusable. If you see someone as acting childish or petty towards you, then you should be allowed to call them out on it (what Auraptor was doing). Some people call that 'insulting', but I personally wouldn't hesitate to do it. Auraptor did it a little aggressively for my tastes, but I don't judge him for it.

Anyway this appears to be an unbridgeable difference in perception, so I suggest we drop the argument and leave the thread to insults...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 6:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

I personally don't see how "Who whizzed on your cornflakes this morning?" can be an insult, but fine. Snark = insult.

Suppose I changed the wording a bit: "Who shit in your mouth this morning?"

Is that insulting, implying that you eat human waste?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 5:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
This kind of implies that some insults/put downs are okay if the other person's behaviour warrants it. Isn't that how conflict just perpetuates itself when people start justifying crappy behaviour because the other person deserved it?

Crappy behavior always deserves a response. It may not be THE SAME response as the inciting behavior, but if the behavior is crappy enough it might even deserve a bullet to the head. This idea that you always have to be "nice" no matter what is foolish and self-defeating. You always have to be observant and you should always try to be effective. That doesn't mean always being "nice".

Okay, I'll leave you to your discussion group now.

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Monday, June 10, 2013 7:15 AM