REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Here come the flea-market abortions

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, July 15, 2013 04:43
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Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bill O'Reilly on abortion in Texas
Quote:

“You can just kill the baby, or the fetus, however you want to describe it, any time you want for any reason,” O’Reilly said, describing the current abortion laws in Texas and several other states. “You know, women’s health, that’s any reason at all.”

O’Reilly jabbed. “For any reason! Women’s health! ‘Hey! Look I sprained my hand!’” http://www.carbonated.tv/news/bill-oreilly-says-that-women-in-texas-ca
n-use-a-sprained-hand-as-reason-for-abortion-video
]

An obviously asinine remark. But what O'Reilly and those like him want, apparently, is what's starting to happen already:
Quote:

‘Flea Market’ Abortions Replacing Clinics For Texas Women

Women in Texas are turning to “flea market” abortions as state legislature moves toward one of the most expansive and restrictive abortion bans in the union.

The new laws, which have already passed the Texas House, will see the closure of almost all women’s health clinics in the large southern state.

Though clinics where abortions were made affordable and available will be gone, Texas women will still inevitably desire abortions. And for many women, that means seeking unsafe alternatives. More at http://www.inquisitr.com/842790/flea-market-abortions-replacing-clinic
s-for-texas-women/#330YBqPko3XWypjL.99



What's a "flea-market abortion"?
Quote:

At an open-air flea market outside McAllen, Texas, near the Mexican border, shoppers can buy a goat and get their car windows tinted. Tables with handwritten signs touting Viagra are stocked with herbal remedies promising to burn fat and boost breast size. You can also find pills to end a pregnancy.

Bazaars like this have become home to a black market where women too poor to afford an abortion at a clinic or deterred by state mandates such as a 24-hour waiting period can buy drugs to induce a miscarriage on their own, a dozen area residents and doctors said in interviews.

Hundreds of miles north in Austin, the capital, lawmakers may inadvertently increase this illegal trade. Rules set to pass as soon as this week might result in the closing of most, if not all, abortion facilities in the state. If the law -- promoted as a way to improve women’s health -- makes legal abortion unavailable in Texas, more women may turn to markets such as the one near McAllen and risk their lives.

“You’d be amazed at how many people, young people, are taking those pills,” said Erlinda Dasquez, a 29-year-old mother of four who has done so herself. “I probably know 12 to 20 people who have done this. My cousin just went to the flea market a few months ago.”

Bleeding Woman

Women in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, along the southeastern border with Mexico, said it’s already harder for them to control their reproductive lives since the state cut funding for birth control in 2011.

In the past few years, health-care providers in the valley, one of the state and nation’s poorest regions, have seen an increasing number of women suffering from incomplete abortions and bleeding after taking drugs unsupervised, they said.

The pills, which are known by the brand name Cytotec and require a prescription in the U.S., are designed to prevent stomach ulcers. They can also induce abortion. Until recently, obtaining them meant a trip across the border to Mexican towns such as Nuevo Progreso, where pharmacies can legally sell them without a prescription.

Underground imports have brought the trade stateside. Whether it’s the actual Pfizer Inc. medication or a generic, side effects include premature birth and uterine rupture. The drug isn’t typically on display at flea markets. All you need to do is ask, residents said.

Mother Babysat

Pfizer is working with law enforcement to support efforts to prevent illegal sale of the drug, said Chris Loder, a spokesman for the New York-based company.

When Dasquez needed the pills, they weren’t yet available at flea markets. Instead, on a September day in 2010 while her mother babysat, Dasquez got behind the wheel of her gold Chevrolet Malibu to go see a woman who’d smuggled the drugs across the border to sell out of her living room.

The woman handed Dasquez four octagonal pills in a clear plastic bag, she said. They cost $40. At the nearest legal provider, a pharmaceutical abortion costs $550.

Dasquez said she turned down another option: injections that the woman was offering to administer on the spot.

“I was scared, but I thought I didn’t have any other choice -- I had to do it whatever happens,” she said. “I told my mom so, if anything goes wrong, she could bring me to the hospital or get help.”

A drug called Mifeprex, used in conjunction with Cytotec, is approved by the Food and Drug Administration as an alternative to surgical abortion within the first seven weeks of pregnancy. When taken as directed, it’s effective 92 percent to 95 percent of the time and complications are rare, according to the manufacturer of Mifeprex, Danco Laboratories LLC, based in New York.

That’s not the regimen followed by women getting the drugs on the black market, who can be as ill informed as those selling them. During a recent visit to the Almost Free Pharmacy in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, a man behind the counter instructed an initial dose of two pills orally and one vaginally, followed by two pills every hour “until something happens.”

William West, a physician at Whole Women’s Health in McAllen, said he sees patients daily who have taken black-market abortion drugs. Many are bleeding or still pregnant, he said.

“It’s hard to know how successful it really is -- we just see the failures,” said West, 77, who has been performing abortions for 31 years.

That’s what happened to Dasquez, who took a second dose after the first didn’t work. She bled for at least a month, she said.

Locals have a word to describe abortions like this: “clandestino.” It’s often poor and undocumented immigrants who seek them, unable to afford having more children or legal yet pricier options, said Paula Saldana, a community health instructor who volunteers to educate Hispanics about contraception.

“Only people with money go to clinics,” said Saldana, 36.

Neither of the two abortion clinics serving the Lower Rio Grande Valley meet the bill’s requirements. Their closing would add hundreds of miles to the distance women need to travel to reach the nearest legal provider.

Women in the valley’s four counties are disproportionately poor -- more than a third live in poverty. . They’re the same women who have been hardest hit by the 2011 state budget, which cut family-planning funds by two-thirds and reduced access to subsidized contraceptives, according to a report from the Texas Policy Evaluation Project led by the University of Texas at Austin.

Last year, Texas’s Health and Human Services Commission estimated that during 2014 and 2015, poor women would give birth to nearly 24,000 more babies as a result of the cuts. Of the state’s 288 clinics offering family-planning before the cuts, 56 have since closed, while others are open as little as one day a week, according to the Evaluation Project report. The state has since restored some funding, though advocates said it falls short.

Alma Saldana, 30, the sister of activist Paula Saldana, stopped taking birth control last year after two nearby clinics closed and the one remaining wanted to charge more than she could afford. She bore her third child, Adrian, last month.

“If I had $100 to pay for birth control or pay the bill for lights, I’d pay the lights,” said Saldana, a Brownsville native and single mother. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-07-10/flea-market-abortions-thri
ve-as-texas-bill-might-close-clinics#p1



Go, Republicans!

Thank goodness my mother didn't live to see this day; having survived but been damaged by a back-street abortion, she'd be shocked to see our country going back to that.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Meh... take the morning after pill.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Says the contrarian, just to be contrary.

There are no words...


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Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


It's readily available, is it not ? And for females of ANY age. No parents required.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 11:20 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Such a worry. Texas sounds like its going backwards at a great rate.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Amen Magons. Rap, what you don't know about the abortion issue would fill volumes, but it's not worth my time to try and educate you and I don't think you give a shit or would bother to read if I did.


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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:39 PM

JONGSSTRAW


20 weeks is more than enough time to have an abortion. Most countries even in liberal Europe ban abortions after 12 weeks, so this Texas crap being hyped-up by Planned Parenthood is just ultra radical bullshit. It's also about them not wanting to lose any part of the hundreds of millions of dollars they make in profit every year performing abortions.





And after the Kermit Gosnell abortion house of horrors case, you'd think reasonable people wouldn't be objecting to laws seeking to mandate sanitary and inspected medical abortion facilities for women. But after the 'Hail Satan' chants and multiple death threats to Texas Republican legislators, it's clear that these zealots are very far from reasonable.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 11:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I don't think that chart is particularly accurate. There is a difference between abortion on demand and abortion in limited circumstances. In some of those countries, there is no abortion on demand ie the UK. In many places, abortion is carried out with the approval of a doctor, and needs to satisfy certain criteria. In many countries, abortions will occur after 12 weeks if certain conditions are met - ie fetal abnormality, health of mother etc. Normally, late term abortions would need to approved by one or more attending doctors as being necessary.

Ireland currently has a blanket ban on abortions ie no circumstances including risk to mothers life.

A blanket ban on late term abortions may put mother's life at risk, or may force women to proceed with pregnancies where a baby will not survive birth.

I certainly don't support abortion on demand throughout gestation, but I think rigid abortion laws are a threat to women's health.


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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Amen Magons. Rap, what you don't know about the abortion issue would fill volumes, but it's not worth my time to try and educate you and I don't think you give a shit or would bother to read if I did.




I know a woman can't just think her pregnancy away, or use mind control to keep from becoming pregnant after she's had sex.

And I think Jongs makes a pretty strong point, which you'll likely overlook.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 12, 2013 3:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Not to mention the fact that it has nothing to do with sanitary, etc., medical facilities--that part was put in SPECIFICALLY to make it financially and otherwise impossible for abortion clinics to be possible, and everyone knows it. It's all a game, why bother?

And yes, that is patently an unreliable chart, Jong should have left Ireland off because we all know the mess that happened there, that there is NO ABORTION in Ireland and just now a bill to make "life of the mother" an exception. I no longer read all of what Jong writes; used to, always, but he's gotten so insane now, and puts up lies like that, so it's not worth my time.


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Friday, July 12, 2013 5:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki - fingers in ears, eyes tight, "naah naah naah!"

lol

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 12, 2013 5:48 AM

AGENTROUKA


The chart is definitely misleading.

In Germany, terminations are possible well past the 12-week mark when health (not life!) of the mother (including psychological health) or fetal abnormality come into play.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 6:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Most countries even in liberal Europe ban abortions after 12 weeks
Bullshit. Most European nations allow abortion on demand up to 12 weeks, but they do not "ban" abortions afterwards. It varies nation to nation, but most European nations allow later abortions for reasons of fetal abnormalities, the life and health (including mental health) of the mother, circumstances of conception, even financial circumstances.

Jongsie's point was addressed by MAGONS, a point YOU "conveniently" overlooked.

Also, it would be nice if you rightwingers would stop bringing tainted data to the table, and then treating it as if it were true.

Quote:

20 weeks is more than enough time to have an abortion
This was already addressed by KIKI in another thread (a point you also "conveniently" forgot). In the case of suspected chromosomal abnormality, doctors really want to perform amniocentesis no sooner than 18 weeks because of risk to fetus. That leaves only two weeks (under your scenario) to schedule and perform amniocentesis, send the sample to a lab, get the test results back, make a decision, and schedule an abortion. If we had rational healthcare system which provided everyone with the right services at the right time, that MIGHT just barely make sense, but in the fustercluck that is our so-called healthcare, it doesn't make any sense at all.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 12:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, Sig, " it would be nice if you rightwingers would stop bringing tainted data to the table, and then treating it as if it were true. "

That "chart" has now been shown to be inaccurate in at least three countries (and Rouka IS German, so I trust her to know), among other things. So as far as I'm concerned, it means nothing.


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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:16 PM

JONGSSTRAW


12 weeks for the majority of Europe. 20-26 weeks in America. What do libs have to complain about anyway? So-called "womans' rights" liberals are really only barbaric savages who just want butchers like Dr. Gosnell and others of his ilk to shove sharp gadgets inside women and chop things up.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So-called "womans' rights" liberals are really only barbaric savages who just want butchers like Dr. Gosnell and others of his ilk to shove sharp gadgets inside women and chop things up.
Wow, are you really telling me what "I" want? What a male chauvanist pig you are!

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What a male chauvanist pig you are!


So says the fat sow as she rolls around in her own filth.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Put down the bottle, Jongsie. You're embarrassing everyone.

Sorry you made such an ass of your self here, and here http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=55667 and here http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=55666 and just about everywhere else you've posted, but you're not helping yourself any.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
12 weeks for the majority of Europe. 20-26 weeks in America. What do libs have to complain about anyway? So-called "womans' rights" liberals are really only barbaric savages who just want butchers like Dr. Gosnell and others of his ilk to shove sharp gadgets inside women and chop things up.



yes, this is of course entirely true. That's what we all want. Fantastic post, Jongs, keep the insights rolling along. You do a great service to right wingers everywhere.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:50 PM

JONGSSTRAW



Glad to hear it. Just means I'm right and you know it.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAGONS, I think Jongsie is so drunk right now he can barely find the keyboard.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:59 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Again....just means I'm right and SNIGGY knows it.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 2:06 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Yep, smashed, angry and hateful.

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Pretty much describes him for quite some time now, doesn't it? I'm not sure why anyone pays him any attention anymore, he's just sad.


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Saturday, July 13, 2013 9:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Texas, it seems, has got the market cornered in back pedaling........just look at Rick Perry, Neanderthal.

Duh, what was that middle one again!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Such a worry. Texas sounds like its going backwards at a great rate.


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Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
20 weeks is more than enough time to have an abortion. Most countries even in liberal Europe ban abortions after 12 weeks, so this Texas crap being hyped-up by Planned Parenthood is just ultra radical bullshit. It's also about them not wanting to lose any part of the hundreds of millions of dollars they make in profit every year performing abortions.





Actually, the Texas law is more about funneling money to Rick Perry's sister, for one...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Niki - fingers in ears, eyes tight, "naah naah naah!"




Yes, that is your normal reaction to her - just plug your ears, close your eyes, scream "I win! You lose! Your point is moot! You have no case!" - and pretend any it's true.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, July 15, 2013 4:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


B..b..b..but Mike, what else can he DO but snark? He's incapable of engaging in any sensible debate, and unwilling to use his brain, so what other option does he have?

As to Perry's sister, yeah, I caught that a while back, too: http://www.thegloss.com/2013/07/08/culture/rick-perry-sister-stands-to
-gain-from-abortion-bill-sb5
/

Works for him! ;o)


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