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Conservative activists say data shows GOP shouldn't fear shutdown over Obamacare

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, August 16, 2013 07:26
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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

A prominent conservative group marshaled new polling data on Wednesday to try and convince reluctant Republicans that forcing a government shutdown over “Obamacare” wouldn’t necessarily harm the GOP, or cost the party control of the House of Representatives.

Heritage Action for America – one of the conservative groups leading the charge to pressure Republican lawmakers against voting to continue government spending unless they can defund President Barack Obama’s health care law – said its new poll of likely voters in 10 relatively competitive congressional districts showed that forcing such a shutdown would not be fatal for the GOP in 2014.

The fight over whether to shut down the government in this fall's battle over spending for the next fiscal year and relent somewhat on the implementation of Obamacare reflects the internal strife between the party's conservatives and more pragmatic party establishment.

The poll, which was conducted by Basswood Research from Aug. 7-8, also found that 28 percent of respondents in the 10 districts would blame Republicans for a shutdown over Obamacare, while 22 percent would blame Obama himself, and 19 percent would blame Democrats in Congress. Seventeen percent of respondents would spread blame among all three groups.

The poll also found that almost 60 percent of respondents would support a “temporary slowdown in non-essential federal government operations, which still left all essential government services running" in order to extract an agreement from the president to at least slow health care reform’s implementation.

Still, Heritage Action’s survey isn’t meant to reflect broad, nationwide support for a government shutdown. Rather, the numbers are intended to assuage Republican lawmakers who worry that such a hard-line strategy heading into this fall’s fiscal debate would have disastrous consequences for the party.

"Americans – including 57 percent of independents in ten critical congressional districts – favor defunding Obamacare," said Michael Needham, the CEO of Heritage Action. "House Republicans should be much more concerned with the fallout of failing to defund Obamacare than with the imaginary fallout of doing so."

Heritage Action's pollster, Jon Lerner, added: "There is no present evidence that a move to defund Obamacare, and the potential of a partial government shutdown, would harm Republican prospects of holding the House majority. In fact, the very same voters who are critical to keeping the majority – independents in potential competitive districts – hold highly negative views on Obamacare and strongly favor slowdown in implementation or outright repeal of the law."

Wednesday’s numbers also precede a Heritage Action bus tour set to play out in coming weeks in which former Sen. Jim DeMint (the current head of the Heritage Foundation) and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who’s spearheaded the Obamacare-shutdown strategy, would barnstorm key states and congressional districts.

But a number of high-profile Republicans have also castigated the strategy. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., described the plan as “shenanigans,” and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., said last week that he didn’t believe the country “needs or wants a shutdown.”

"Let’s not kid ourselves. We’ll be blamed," GOP heavyweight Karl Rove said of the strategy on Monday. "This assumes that Democrats are going to be scared of a shutdown. They’re not. They want it. They know what happened to us in 1995."

Still, conservatives like Cruz and Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, have rallied the Republican grassroots behind their strategy. Undergirding their approach is their argument that fighting Obamacare to the fullest extent would become a political winner for Republicans. http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/14/20010200-conservative-ac
tivists-say-data-shows-gop-shouldnt-fear-shutdown-over-obamacare?lite
]


Let's see, wasn't someone recently insisting "The GOP have NO plans to shut down anything" when Romney was advising the GOP not to do so?( http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=55917)

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gee, I wonder if even BREITBART is an acceptable source to even our righties? 'Cuz even they are talking about the GOP discussing whether or not to shut down the government:
Quote:

McConnell: Shutdown Won't Stop ObamaCare

On Tuesday, Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell spoke publicly about an effort by conservatives to tie ObamaCare funding to overall government spending. Under a plan pushed by Sens. Cruz and Lee, Republicans would support a continuing resolution to fund government, but only if ObamaCare spending is removed. They believe Obama would be blamed for any government shutdown if he were to veto the spending plan.

"I'm for stopping ObamaCare, but shutting down the government will not stop ObamaCare," McConnell said at an event in Kentucky. McConnell had previously declined to stake a position on the defunding effort. His public remarks are noteworthy because McConnell now faces a potentially competitive primary challenge from conservative businessman Matt Bevins.

His aides point to a recent study by the Congressional Research Service, which found that much of ObamaCare implementation would continue even if the government shut down. Many of the provisions in ObamaCare are funded by the law itself, rather than the annual spending bill approved by Congress. Funds to implement ObamaCare would continue to flow, even if the rest of the government shutdown.

That said, the push to use the debate over a continuing resolution to defund ObamaCare has become an important, principled fight for many conservatives. A new continuing resolution must be passed by October 1 to avoid a government shutdown. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/14/McConnell-Against-O
bamaCare-Defunding-Push




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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:47 AM

STORYMARK


Its all a plot of the librul media.... or something.






Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:37 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


How about some facts behind that poll?
Quote:

Heritage Action polled this question: “If there was an effort in Congress to temporarily halt funding for the health care law, which of the following is the president most likely to do. . .?” Voters were given two options: President Obama would compromise or he’d insist on having it his way. More than 63 percent said he’d want to have it his way. Then the poll asked ”in order to get President Obama to agree to at least have a ‘time out’ on implementing the health care law and its full effects would you approve or disapprove of a temporary slowdown in non-essential government operations, which still left all essential government services operating” Lo and behold with that wording about 59 percent agreed.

This is nonsense of course. Republicans would have to shut down the government and be willing to do it for as long as it took, hoping the president would cave. And of course no definition of “non-essential” is given. The question asked has nothing to do with reality, yet in its press release Heritage Action pronounced that their polls show “the idea of defunding Obamacare is broadly supported. Moreover, the potential of a partial government shutdown does little to dampen the desire to stop the implementation of Obamacare.” Um, not really. “Government shutdown” wasn’t part of the question.

The poll is a pure advocacy poll, intended to drive a certain result by monkeying around with the question and the pool of respondents. (Notice that Jim DeMint the head of Heritage Foundation was pushing publicly for a government shutdown; conveniently Heritage Action follows up in quick order with this less than objective poll.)

Moreover, the poll asserts that it measures “swing districts.” (“On August 7-8, 2013, Basswood Research conducted a nationwide survey of likely general election voters in ten different Congressional districts. Six of those House districts are presently held by Republicans, four are held by Democrats. They broadly represent a cross-section of Republican-leaning but not safe-Republican districts. The Republican held seats are FL-2, IL-18, NJ-7, NC-2, OH-12, and OR-2. The Democratic held seats are GA-12, NC-7, UT-4, and WV-3.”) This is grossly misleading.

Charlie Cook ranks congressional districts with its Partisan Voting Index (PVI), the higher the number the greater the lean toward that party. (“PVIs are calculated by comparing the district’s average Democratic (or Republican) Party’s share of the two-party presidential vote in the past two presidential elections to the nation’s average share of the same.”) A perfectly balanced district would be at zero. Every single one of these districts with a GOP congressman has a GOP PVI of at least +6. The average PVI of these districts is over +10 Republican. The districts currently with a Democratic representative are even more right-leaning, with PVI ratings between +9 and +16 GOP (an average of + 12.75 GOP). Overall, President Obama lost these seats by an average of 18 points. If anything it shows that if you ask a distorted question you can get evidence that ultra-safe districts won’t flip to the other party. Beyond that, the poll is frankly nonsense.

So, only by asking a misleading question, misrepresenting the results and going to select ultra-conservative districts could Heritage Action come up with a majority to support its suicide mission. Republicans on the Hill should pay heed to the lengths Heritage Action would go to convince them. And those covering the Heritage Action poll should be honest in explaining what it does and does not tell us.

Why do you think this much jury-rigging is needed to push its agenda? Maybe Heritage Action’s poll, like Heritage Foundation’s widely discredited study on the economic impact of immigration reform, actually tells us how out of touch with reality Heritage has become. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/08/15/heritages
-junk-poll/?hpid=z4




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Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:54 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Are these the same pollsters who had Romney winning last November?

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Thursday, August 15, 2013 4:03 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Heritage Action's pollster, Jon Lerner, added: "There is no present evidence that a move to defund Obamacare, and the potential of a partial government shutdown, would harm Republican prospects of holding the House majority. In fact, the very same voters who are critical to keeping the majority – independents in potential competitive districts – hold highly negative views on Obamacare and strongly favor slowdown in implementation or outright repeal of the law."


Oh please please please follow through on this neocons! Just like you had faith in those polls about Romney, have faith in this...

When will these tools learn that a prediction is only as good as the outcome? They certainly haven't learned it yet.

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Friday, August 16, 2013 3:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Are these the same pollsters who had Romney winning last November?"

Hee, hee, hee; probably, and for the same reason...gotta buck up that base, however you do it...


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Friday, August 16, 2013 6:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
"Are these the same pollsters who had Romney winning last November?"

Hee, hee, hee; probably, and for the same reason...gotta buck up that base, however you do it...




Or shout into the echo chamber and see what you get back.

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Friday, August 16, 2013 7:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Summertime Blues: Polls show ObamaCare support eroding amid roll-out problems
Published August 14, 2013
FoxNews.com

Now, you HAVE to realize that these are Fox News (nuff said), Gallup (yeah, that WAS the pollster showing Romney winning) and Rasmussen (likely voters, with an older white bias).

Nonetheless

Quote:

A majority of Americans say they believe the new health care law will increase their medical costs and taxes, according to an Aug. 8 Fox News poll. The survey found 57 percent of those polled felt the way ObamaCare was being rolled out was "a joke."

Overall, 63 percent of voters believe that the 2010 health care law needs to be changed. That number is up from 58 percent of those asked the question in July 2012.

The number of Republicans who think the law should be changed remained steady at 84 percent. According to the poll, more voters used negative terms to describe the health care overhaul -- with 39 percent calling it "disastrous" and 14 percent calling it "a step backwards."



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show
-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/#ixzz2c9Ra9HSN


The Republicans have until mid-October to figure out what they're going to do, because by then people will have actual premium numbers to look at, and much speculation and uncertainty will begin disappear as people decide whether the insurance is good (or bad) for them.

Yanno, see how regulatory agencies work. Say that somebody has a blazing insight- refinery flaring events release a LOT of pollution! Well, they look into it, and find out that indeed, it has a big impact, so they start writing rules. Then industry and the public come in.

"We flare mainly for safety"
You do? How could we tell the difference between a flaring event for safety, and one which is part of your normal operations?

"We've already mitigated a lot of our flaring, so we don't belong under the same cap as our competitors"
Really? Show us that data.

"All refineries are different. Some refineries handle sour crude. You can't just reduce all of us the the same limits"
So the limits should be...?


"How do we know that you're flaring, and when you're flaring, and when you have an emergency?"
No notification system? Needs some work.

What starts out as a blazing insight turns into 40 pages of abstruse exceptions and options. That is what happens when you work with an established industry, in the framework that the industry sets, which is: no regulation shall impact my bottom line too negatively, and not any more negatively than my competitors or I will cry "I'm going to China!".

That's what the Obamacare is. It's detailed and mincing, with a lot of doors and back alleyways for various insurances so as not to hurt the insurances too badly. Make no mistake: For something simpler, Obama would have had to do away with the insurances as main providers of medical care, and relegate them to optional players. There go the annuities that many pensioners rely on!

Now, personally, I think it's a fight worth having. Once Obamacare gets rolled out, we can start in 2017 to work for single-payer in our state.

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Friday, August 16, 2013 7:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bang-on analysis, thank you Sig!! Exactly what I've been saying (less the wonderful explanation of all the difficulties). Now, if only the Republicans would work WITH it, to improve it, rather than just desperately trying to trash it (or at least look like they're trying to trash it, futile tho' they KNOW their efforts to be), maybe we could make it better.

We all know that our health-care system is in bad shape, too expensive for what it provides and doesn't provide for nearly enough people. We all know that the only way to get it through at ALL was to weaken it so much that it can barely be called a "first step", just like Social Security, Medicare and so many others. Well, all of us who are willing to actually understand the situation anyway. So what is the point in doing nothing but insist on returning to a status quo which wasn't working?


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