REAL NEWS AUG 4: Meanwhile, back in.... oh shit by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

REAL NEWS AUG 4: Meanwhile, back in.... oh shit

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, September 1, 2013 11:58
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Sunday, August 4, 2013 7:25 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As you all know, the Fukushima reactors are pretty much like colandars. Tepco has been pouring water "into" the reactors to keep the nuclear fuel cool, and trying to catch some of it as it pours out again.

Meanwhile, water has been flowing underground towards the sea, carrying radionuclides with it. Tepco has built an underground dam between the reactors and the ocean, with the idea of intercepting this groundwater flow. There's only a teeny-tiny problem... they have, in effect, created a dam, but have not diverted the flow of groundwater from upstream of the plant. So, either one of two things will happen, or possibly both:

1) The radionuclide water will overtop the underground barrier, and continue on its way to the ocean; the only thing accomplished will have been to delay its inevitable pathway to the sea, and/ or

2) The water level behind the dam, on the reactor-side, will rise to the surface. With such heavy radiological contamination, people will be unable to continue staffing the facility, and cooling/ water storage operations will cease. Also, the boggy soil may destabilize various structures.

Quote:
And now, the Nuclear Regulation Authority is raising doubts about the utility’s latest plan: constructing underground walls to prevent the contaminated water from reaching the Pacific Ocean.

The immediate concern is radioactive water seeping along the seaward side of the No. 1 to No. 3 reactors and spilling into the sea.

TEPCO is currently solidifying soil with chemicals near a levee to prepare the ground for the walls.

But as work has progressed, the water level in observation wells has risen sharply to about 1 meter from the ground’s surface, apparently due to the accumulation of groundwater blocked from the ocean.

Due to limitations in construction methods, the walls can only be built with their tops at 1.8 meters beneath the surface. That means the water levels in the observation wells have already risen above the top edges.

If such a situation continues, the completed barriers will be unable to prevent the water from reaching the ocean. In addition, calculations show that if the water levels continue to rise at the current pace, contaminated water will flood the surface in about three weeks.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201308030046

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 7:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And why isn't this news in the mainstream media?

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 8:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Y'know, I saw some footage yesterday on one of the "news" channels, and they were showing an animation of an asteroid heading towards Earth, and some kind of probe sent out to examine it (I wasn't really paying much attention to the "news" at that point, as I was online and a bit distracted), and the music they decided to lay over their "news" was R.E.M.'s "It's the End of the World As We Know It".

That pretty much summed up the media for me: Every story can be made more watchable if you just lay some catchy pop music over it. And I have zero doubt that if an asteroid actually were about to wipe out life as we know it, that's exactly the song they'd pick to play over the story.

So why isn't Fukushima all over the news? Because it's fucking GRIM, for one. And they can't really find a catchy tune to mask that grimness. People are dying, and many, many more are going to die horrible deaths because of what happened there and what's continuing to happen there. And nobody wants to talk about that.

Maybe when there's a really snappy top 40 tune written about it we can have that discussion...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, August 5, 2013 1:34 AM

OONJERAH

Olde, haunting not snappy, but --
Dust in the Wind, ~Kansas, 1977
"Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky ..."

I suppose the impact of the Fukushima disaster
is not - even now - limited to Japan. No.

======================
All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon

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Monday, August 5, 2013 1:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And why isn't this news in the mainstream media?

I hope you're not suggesting there's any intent by the msm to NOT report something which may be of interest to the public.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 5, 2013 3:58 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You silly tool. I've known the msm is tightly controlled for over 40 years. Aren't you a little late to the party?

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Monday, August 5, 2013 4:33 AM

BYTEMITE

...INTERESTING.

I've done a little bit of hydrogeology, though I couldn't call myself an expert.

I suppose it would depend on the pressure of the water within the surface strata, and how sorbent/soluable the radionuclides are. They should be heavier than water and sink through the soil pores to settle in a pool on an impermeable layer. But the head pressure, sorbency, and soluability could alter that outcome. And considering that the soil is described as "boggy" I have to wonder if the groundwater isn't already daylighting, which could mean some sort of positive head pressure artesian spring thing going on.

I'll need to research more about the area and these levee walls they're building.

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Monday, August 5, 2013 4:53 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm... Can't really find specifics about the geology or hydrogeology on the internet, but found comments that seem to support the idea that the soil is boggy because of shallow groundwater (and maybe fine grained soil and capillary action. I found a thing: http://www.wmsym.org/archives/2000/pdf/31/31-26.pdf).

Boggy soil is not necessarily a dealbreaker, but only if there aren't pressures that could push the radionuclides up despite their mass, or the radionuclides aren't very soluable. (I don't really work with radionuclides so I don't know this off the top of my head)

Rising groundwater could suggest heavy rainfall, or it could suggest rising head pressure or capillary action... Or thermal expansion of water via heat from interacting radionuclides. Or a combination of all the above. I believe monsoon season has started for Japan.

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Monday, August 5, 2013 5:24 AM

BYTEMITE

So I'm going to assume that iodine, cesium, and strontium are the big ones here, they usually are with fission waste products. I can at least get an idea of soluability of all those, since we lack the exact groundwater flow rate/transmissivity and pressures right now.

I seem to remember that iodine is somewhat soluable and also bioaccumulates. NIOSH guide says 0.01% by weight solubility in water.

Cesium tends to form salts and hydroxides in nature which are very soluable. NIOSH guide says cesium hydroxide has 395% by weight solubility in water.

I can't find a percent by weight solubility for strontium compounds (it's a reactive chemical, so I'm guessing there are a lot). I'm going to guess it's also pretty soluable.

So any of these compounds could be mobile in the groundwater or ocean around Fukushima. As such radionuclide laden water rising over an underground barricade seems like a scientific possibility. It's even possible it's already at the surface due to capillary action.

I will investigate how high groundwater has historically risen in other Japanese monsoon seasons, keeping in mind that this barrier is 1.8 meters below ground surface which means right now groundwater is at most 1.8 meters below ground surface.

EDIT: Hmm, no luck. Not sure how much the monsoons will raise the water level.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2013 3:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You silly tool. I've known the msm is tightly controlled for over 40 years. Aren't you a little late to the party?

So, all media is controlled, is it ?

By whom ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 6, 2013 5:35 PM

OONJERAH

New Leaks Into Pacific at Japan Nuclear Plant
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/asia/leaks-into-pacific-persis
t-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?pagewanted=all

Well ... it finally made the Paper.

Yay, American Journalism!!

========================: >

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Tuesday, August 6, 2013 6:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"So, all media is controlled, is it ?

By whom ?"

Bean counters.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2013 7:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Pretty obviously what the Japanese are doing isn't working. There is a planet full of smart people and a vast total level of resources that could be brought to bear. But they aren't. Instead we all wait downwind and downstream (and this will reach everywhere on the planet) passive, helpless, letting the global nuclear industry, pride, and the Japanese government's desire for nuclear weapons decide our all our fates.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2013 9:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

It doesn't seem a rational choice. Embarrass the Japanese or allow myself to be poisoned ... I choose to be poisoned!

I would further wonder why our governments are making that choice on our behalf.

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Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
New Leaks Into Pacific at Japan Nuclear Plant
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/asia/leaks-into-pacific-persis
t-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?pagewanted=all

Well ... it finally made the Paper.

Yay, American Journalism!!

========================: >

But without the "OHMYGOD!! We're All Gonna DIE!!!" hysteria. Someone's falling down on the job.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:51 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Pretty obviously what the Japanese are doing isn't working. There is a planet full of smart people and a vast total level of resources that could be brought to bear. But they aren't. Instead we all wait downwind and downstream (and this will reach everywhere on the planet) passive, helpless, letting the global nuclear industry, pride, and the Japanese government's desire for nuclear weapons decide our all our fates.

I don't know if you noticed in the article Oonj linked to, but the contamination levels in the open ocean are recorded as low. And air monitoring really hasn't detected much. That's not because the Japanese have been doing a great job of containment - they've been doing a terrible job, actually. Rather it's because of the contaminants in question and their fluid and gradient dynamics in relation to the medium (air or water) they're moving through.

Yes, the radiation will eventually disperse globally, but by that point it'll be diluted. Even by the time it gets here you're talking less radiation exposure than you'd get from the sun, let alone by the time it's global. (I did some modeling on this and that's what I determined. I could be wrong, but I'm not really worried. Other models and analysis I've seen have given similar results)

It's important to recognize the mass differences between this stuff and with water and air. Even if it's soluable, the water it's dissolved in will be denser even than sea water and it's still going to sink, which limits the dispersion.

Japan is pretty screwed though. No doubts about that.

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Wednesday, August 7, 2013 5:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... the contamination levels in the open ocean are recorded as low ..."

It depends where you look, and bio-concentration. I read an article a while back (I didn’t save it and I can't find it again) where Japanese scientists grid-sampled swathes of the ocean and the algae in it, and found very elevated levels a few hundred miles away from Japan. I'm going to spend a little bit of time looking for it and post it if I can.

Ah, here it is:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/05/22/national/researchers-find-
high-cesium-in-some-pacific-plankton/#.UZu7-GfYGTc

Researchers find high cesium in some Pacific plankton

The researchers collected plankton at 10 points in the Pacific from off Hokkaido to Guam between January and February 2012.

The researchers collected plankton at 10 points in the Pacific from off Hokkaido to Guam between January and February 2012.

They detected cesium-134 in plankton at all 10 points. The density of radioactive cesium was the highest at 8.2 to 10.5 becquerels per kilogram in samples collected from waters around 25 degrees north latitude and 150 degrees west longitude. [...]

The density of cesium in seawater was highest in waters at around latitude 36 to 40 degrees north, the team said.

The abstract:

http://www.biogeosciences-discuss.net/10/6143/2013/bgd-10-6143-2013.ht
ml

Horizontal distribution of Fukushima-derived radiocesium in zooplankton in the northwestern Pacific Ocean

The highest 137Cs activity in zooplankton was same order of magnitude as that one month after the accident, and average activity was one or two orders of magnitude higher than 137Cs activities observed before the accident around Japan. Horizontally, the radiocesium activity concentrations in zooplankton were high at around 25° N while those in surface seawater were high at around the transition area between the Kuroshio and the Oyashio Currents (36–40° N). We observed subsurface radiocesium maxima in density range of the North Pacific Subtropical Mode Water and occurrence of many diel vertical migratory zooplanktons. These suggested that the high activity concentrations in the subtropical zooplankton at around 25° N were connected to the subsurface radiocesium and active vertical migration of zooplankton.

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Wednesday, August 7, 2013 6:42 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The density of radioactive cesium was the highest at 8.2 to 10.5 becquerels per kilogram in samples collected from waters around 25 degrees north latitude and 150 degrees west longitude.

Becquerels per kilogram is not a unit that indicates a lot of activity, and 8.2 to 10.5 is pretty low.

If you drank 2 liters of water with that much radiation every day for a year, you'd still be 1/10th of the maximum radiation exposure limit set by the EPA. (it'd be around 0.1 mSv for Cesium 134, compared to 1 mSv limit)

The NY Times reported that they haven't detected much radiation in the open ocean, and if that's all we're seeing from bioaccumulation, I'm still not really concerned.

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Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"If you drank 2 liters of water with that much radiation every day for a year, you'd still be 1/10th of the maximum radiation exposure limit set by the EPA." But you wouldn't be drinking the water, you'd be eating the fish that ate the other fish ... that ate the algae.

Anyway, it's late and I need to get to bed. I'm literally falling asleep as I'm typing.

But the pattern of cesium concentration is patchy, even in the ocean - some areas are far more contaminated than others which means some fish are far more contaminated than others (and of course you don't want to eat any fish caught off of Fukushima).

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Thursday, August 8, 2013 2:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"So, all media is controlled, is it ?

By whom ?"

Bean counters.

Oh yes. Reporters shouldn't be restricted to things like the free market forces, huh?

Wait.. 'bean counters' ? That's not some sort of code for " JEWS ", is it ?

Just askin'.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 8, 2013 3:57 AM

BYTEMITE

Radiation in drinking water actually has more restrictive levels than for bioaccumulated radiation food standards. Which is... Probably backwards actually, when it comes to health risks. But the problem is there are a number of foods that naturally have a higher level of radiation. Bananas for example give a dose of 1 microsievert. And brazil nuts have an activity of about 433 Bq/kg.

Going somewhere today, so see you around. Sorry for keeping you up late.

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Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, I thought I'd outline the most recent events ...

We all know that an aquifer running under the Fukushima-Dai-ichi plant and thought to also be running through underground structures has overtopped the underground barrier designed to keep it out of the ocean, and is draining into the ocean. Reuters calls it 300 tonnes per day, the NYTimes call it 400 tonnes per day. The water can't be contained behind expanded dikes, because that would cause the soil to become too waterlogged and the building could collapse. OTOH there are about over 1000 storage tanks at the facility to store radioactive water, but the tanks are filled to 85% capacity. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/japan-fukushima-nuclear-idUS
L4N0FZ31J20130730 And since they're running out of storage space, it's pretty clear they can't catch and store it either. Their only option is to let it drain into the Pacific.

Japan says Fukushima leak worse than thought, govt joins clean-up
Fukushima leaking 300 tonnes of toxic water a day into Pacific
Tatsuya Shinkawa, a director in METI's Nuclear Accident Response Office, told reporters the government believed water had been leaking for two years, but Yoneyama told Reuters it was unclear how long the water had been leaking at the current rate. Shinkawa described the water as "highly" contaminated.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/08/japan-fukushima-pm-idUSL4N0G
80HK20130808

New Leaks Into Pacific at Japan Nuclear Plant
The water contains strontium and cesium, as well as tritium ... But regulators and critics alike are worried because the company, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, or Tepco, has been unable to stop the flow of the contaminated water ... Tepco now says the groundwater is emptying into the plant’s man-made harbor at a rate of 400 tons a day ... Mr. Kinjo, a director in the office overseeing the response to the Fukushima accident at the nuclear authority, said that the levels of contamination in the water that had collected in the reactor buildings was too low to account for the radiation levels seen in the groundwater now flowing into the ocean (that reflects the 'highly contaminated' statement above), so the water at the reactors was unlikely to be the source of the latest leaks. The most likely source appears to be pools of highly radioactive water that collected in the plant’s maze of underground conduits after a large leak of water ... a few weeks after the accident. Last week, Tepco said water in one such conduit near the No. 2 reactor contained 1.6 billion becquerels per liter of radioactive cesium 137, far above the safe level of 90 becquerels per liter.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/asia/leaks-into-pacific-persis
t-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&;

In the meantime, about 400 tonnes of water per day is being poured on the reactors and spent fuel pools to keep them cool in lieu of a cooling system. Some sources say this water is being nearly completely recirculated, other say Tepco is pumping groundwater from above the plant and pouring it into the buildings, where much of it becomes commingled with groundwater flowing in.

MEANWHILE the water that's being used to cool the nuclear fuel and is being recovered is being stored in tanks. And one of them has leaked rather badly -

Tepco Says Contaminated Water Leaked From Fukushima Tank
TOKYO—About 300 metric tons, or 79,000 gallons, of highly radioactive water has leaked from a storage tank at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Tuesday, the worst such spill since the plant suffered a triple meltdown two years ago.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323608504579024420997687
470.html

And unit number three had been steaming again, as of 7/24/13 it was the third time that week -

Also, radiation levels in a well have spiked considerably at Fukushima starting in July and reaching 47 fold increases in cesium by August 5 - http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201308060059

along with leaky underground tanks - Tokyo Electric Power Co. said it would abandon seven massive underground storage pools where it had been keeping 26,600 tons of contaminated water, after finding that three of the pools had likely sprung leaks. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324010704578414620751929
636.html?KEYWORDS=fukushima+daiichi+water

As I read the situation, both Tepco and the Japanese government have been concerned with putting cosmetic bandages on the situation as cheaply - and secretively - as possible. I don't expect this to change any time soon, and so I have no expectation that they will even try to institute a technical fix. What I expect is that Fukushima will be allowed to seep ... to vent steam ... to ooze ... indefinitely, or until an additional major crisis is no longer ignorable, whichever comes first.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

One chilling possibility that has been indirectly "suggested" to me by someone not at liberty to elaborate is that one of the potential REASONS for certain safety failures might have been a modified Stuxnet infection spread deliberately by one of our so-called-allies who wilded it with the intent of crippling certain kinds of power plants without regard to spread or potential collateral damage.

I wonder if anyones done a proper software analysis, cause some of those valves that failed to shut off when they should have, who's mechanical failsafes stayed locked open like that, does make me a little suspicious.

Or it could be bunk, but I *do* wonder, given we and our allies have a history of doing crap like that, or deliberately selling substandard or even sabotaged components, so it's not beyond the pale, would that it were.

-F

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

FWIW I've heard the same thing - with absolutely no way to test it either way. OTOH the failure of the entire facility - not only were the generators under water but so were the pumps - makes me assume Stuxnet would have been overkill.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:20 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
1.6 billion becquerels per liter of radioactive cesium 137, far above the safe level of 90 becquerels per liter.

*whistle*

That is not a small number.

Independent sources indicate that on-site water is contaminated with more than three times the total release at Chernobyl. My worst case scenario was back when we were wondering if all SIX reactors would fail (six times Chernobyl), but this is still pretty nasty. That whole area within 50 km and the water around it is pretty much going to be a wasteland for 20-30 years. Possibly longer.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:17 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
FWIW I've heard the same thing - with absolutely no way to test it either way. OTOH the failure of the entire facility - not only were the generators under water but so were the pumps - makes me assume Stuxnet would have been overkill.

Indeed, but even the possibility is kind of chilling - I think we should actually go a little retro on safeties cause a purely mechanical one is less subject to tampering or damage from radiation.

Oh, and what about that rad-eating algae/bacteria they were workin on, the tech not mature enough for deployment yet ?
Cause if ever there was a place for a beta test, this is it.

-F

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Friday, August 23, 2013 7:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, the MSM has finally caught up with the real news at Fukushima. Everyone is shocked, shocked I tell you, that Tepco hasn't been able to manage the situation.

Fukushima: Water pouring down from hills
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23807453

Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23779561

Fukushima plant 'house of horrors'
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/08/21/nr-hancocks-f
ukushima-emergency.cnn.html

Insight: In Fukushima end-game, radiated water has nowhere to go
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE97M0FD20130823

Japan's nuclear crisis deepens, China expresses 'shock'
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/us-japan-fukushima-severity-
idUSBRE97K02B20130821

Note that these are mainstream publications: BBC, CNN, Reuters,

Well, duh. Back in March 2011 three reactors melted down completely. (Not "partially".) Hundreds of tons of corium is god-knows-where, the used fuel is hanging off of buildings No 1 and No 2, the used fuel in pool No 3 blew up and scattered its guts everywhere, the Unit No 4 has both fresh AND used fuel in the (unprotected) pool. Some reactors are probably like Swiss cheese, the surge suppressor (the donut) of No 2 is likely cracked and containing nuclear fuel material, the Japanese have been pouring tons of water all over the site and....

... nothing has changed, really, except that site NOW contains hundreds of (cheaply maufactured bolted-together) tanks of radioactive water that are running out of room, and the underground dam between the site and the sea is forcing groundwater up to the surface, and potentially destabilizing the onsite structures.

I set my "pack my bags, grab my passport and take a vaction" threshold years ago: when a fuel-containing structure dries out or falls over and catches on fire (due to lack of cooling) or has a nuclear "event" (uncontrolled chain reaction) due to inadvertent proximity of fuel rods.

Not reached that threshold yet, but the leak is ugly, ugly, ugly, and threatening to poison all of the Pacific shortly and eventually all of the world. And if any leak should cause Tepco to abandon the site... well, then, my doomsday scenario is waiting in the wings.

The FDA should begin testing north pacific and Asian coastline seafood for radiation. The international nuclear community should jump in and seal that sucker off, and provide whatever assistance is needed, whether the Japanese want it or not. And then hand the Japanese government the bill.

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Saturday, August 24, 2013 7:42 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"And if any leak should cause Tepco to abandon the site... well, then, my doomsday scenario is waiting in the wings."

That's a definite possibility. The stored water is HIGHLY radioactive. The underground water is HIGHLY radioactive. I see a few different scenarios

1) the underground water (either from the initial flood or from leaking tanks, and/ or ground water) will be allowed to run off into the ocean

2) it will come to the surface and make the site inaccessible (as well as undermine the building foundations)

3) it may come to the surface and make the site inaccessible despite being allowed to run off into the ocean.

1) is slow poisoning, 2) and 3) are catastrophic.

"Note that these are mainstream publications: BBC, CNN, Reuters ..."

But not mainstream US news.

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Saturday, August 24, 2013 5:33 PM

OONJERAH

ABC: Radioactive Groundwater at Fukushima Nears Pacific
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/radioactive-ground-water
-fukushima-nears-sea-20044298

No, this isn't on the main Google News page, where I check in.

Had to go looking for it.

======================
A man's gotta know his power limitations.

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Sunday, September 1, 2013 11:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Fukushima radiation levels spike, company says

Quote:
TEPCO found high radiation readings at the contaminated water storage tanks and pipe Saturday. The four locations are the bottom of three tanks and a pipe connecting tanks in separate area.

The highest reading as 1800 millisieverts per hour

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/01/world/asia/japan-fukushima-radiation-spi
ke/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This would create an inevitably fatal radiation dose after two hours of exposure.

It used to be there were a few areas of OH SHIT! radiation at Fukushima... the elbow of the vent stack feed pipe, a few holes in the ground, the rooms next to the surge suppressor (donut) in unit NO 2, and (of course) the reactor buildings themselves. But the more the waste is handled and dripped around, the more the entire site will become contaminated. It's inevitable.

Do you remember when Tepco was actually concerned about getting the reactors re-started? We've come a long way from then- and not in a good direction! But Tepco is still handling this emergency by looking in the rearview mirror, and using the cheapest methods they can rationalize.

Just a few months after the accident, it was clear that Elvis had left the building. The corium had probably melted its way thru the reactor vessel and was either scattered in the water in the basement/ donut or working its way to the groundwater. They need to build a coffer dam around the site and isolate it from inflowing groundwater, pump out as much of groundwater as they can to dry out the site before an earthquake liquifies the ground (if it hasn't already, driving contaminated water to the surface and destabilizing the buildings), start boiling down all of that water they've accumulated into more a manageable volume, and of course remove the fuel from SFP No 4. For a start.

Yanno, there are all kinds of less-important reasons to build coffer dams: bridge and tunnel and building construction, for instance. It's not as if it;s unknown technology- just expensive.

Chinese and Koreans are understandably pissed. Russia has (once again) offered its assistance. This is international, and maybe one of these days the USA will wake up and smell the coffee too and stop pushing nuclear power.

Just wait till Hanford becomes the next emergency!

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