Affordable Healthcare Act.... so long as you don't smoke..... by 6IXSTRINGJACK

Hmm, I'm going to regret this... But I've heard that if you're within a certain range of poverty level you can send in a written request or form of some sort to opt out. In fact, if you're really within 104 percent of poverty line for a single individual, you probably qualify for medicaid. The cut-off limit is actually 138 percent of poverty level.

Oh wait, you're just going to buy smokes and booze? Okay, I didn't actually help you then, problem solved.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Don't dare honestly mention that you enjoy a fine cigar - ever. I did, and that was understood that I frequently smoke. I don't . One, two times a year, at most.

Gad, I hate health nazis

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:30 PM

Hey Byte :)

I'll have to look into that written request thing you mention. Do you happen to know any more about it, or is it just another rumor?

Unfortunately, I'm in one of the states that aren't expanding Medicaid. The 138% poverty level doesn't apply. I stated 104%, but that's being optimistic. Without working nearly full time from here to the end of the year, I doubt I'll come close to breaking 100% for a household of one.

The hilarious thing to me is that if I lived in ANY state that Medicaid was expanded to the 138%'ers or less, they DON'T TAKE SMOKING INTO ACCOUNT!!!! Our Federal Government. The ones behind trying to banish smoking for the greater part of the last 4 decades will completely cover people in my financial situation in states that expand medicaid.

In my state, there's no chance of Medicaid at the moment. That in itself would not be a problem if I didn't smoke. My absolute max out of pocket then for health insurance after subsidies would be only $240 for the entire year. The 50% increase to the premium allowed to the companies (that is NOT allowed to be paid down with subsidies) could leave me paying over 2k a year for this plan.

No thanks... I'm cool.....

That's my only gripe with the system....

Here I am, making absolutely shit, but I understand deterring smokers from joining.

Fine... I don't want to be a part of your party.

Just don't bill me 700 bucks a year for not paying the 2,000 bucks you're demanding from me. I'm already paying 700 bucks a year for a Social Security check that I'm told won't be available to me when I'm 65.

I'm not bitching that I won't be covered. I'm bitching that in 2015 my tax burden will be 5.9% more because I decided not to pay over 20% of my gross income for insurance.

In the mean time... here I am.... Just as able to lose my house from any one of a million random bad things that could happen, and I have to pay 700 bucks a year for the experience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:36 PM

Hell Rappy, all you have to do is light one up and unless you're around close friends you've likely made yourself a few enemies.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:40 PM

Oh. The opt out might be that tax thing you just mentioned. Well that's balls.

Ummm, try this calculator then, or I don't know if that's a trustworthy source, so you can also try to investigate what your state policy is in particular. Just because your state isn't on with expanding medicare doesn't mean you don't qualify. And since you're below 400% poverty you might be able to get some subsidies to boost up your numbers.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Also, you might be exempt if health insurance premiums for the plan would cost you more than 8 percent of your income.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:40 PM

JONGSSTRAW

I don't smoke, but I know that the company insurance we all have does penalize smokers about $15 a week. That's $780 added to the annual cost of buying cigarettes, around $3,000 for the typical smoker. That comes to almost $4,000 a year to smoke. I can think of a lot of better things to do with that amount of money.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:44 PM

AND BEFORE ANYBODY TELLS ME THAT I SHOULDN'T SMOKE.....

I make considerably less than 12k a year at the moment. I don't have cable TV. I don't have a cell phone even. I don't eat out at fancy restaurants, or even ever get fast food for that matter. I haven't bought a new article of clothing outside of Goodwill in the last 4 years. I can't even remember the last time I bought a girl a drink at a bar, and I couldn't even imagine spending an entire night's pay or more just to take a girl out to the movies and buy some popcorn.

My thrills are cheap and I find them when I can. At the end of any given day, I'm childless, I'm disease free, I'm debt free and I'm more eligible a bachelor than pretty much anyone else I've ever known, married or otherwise. ;)

Say what you will about my smoking habit, but then I'll just throw back in your face that your 5 day cruise cost as much as an entire year of cigarettes cost me.

Well... I guess not... anymore....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:46 PM

Poverty line is fifteen-something grand for individuals, Jack. If you're really only making 12,000 modified income, you're below poverty.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:51 PM

Thanks for the link Byte, but that is EXACTLY the site I used when formulating this. The thing they say that might change it up is that a stat can "allow up to 50%" increase for smoking. I'm hoping that if we're conservative enough to opt out of the expansion that we're at least conservative enough to keep that 50% increase for smokers to a minimum as well.

The funny thing is that it seems that I actually MAX OUT my subsidies. I could likely get a Silver Plan without paying more than a few bucks a month. But since I smoke, a silver plan would jump from dollars a month to nearly 200 dollars a month.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Poverty line is fifteen-something grand for individuals, Jack. If you're really only making 12,000 modified income, you're below poverty.

Nah, Byte... It's actually a lot less.

15k is more than likely the almost "universal" 133% of the Poverty level for one person that most organizations go by.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

In 2013, the US Poverty guidlines state that an individual making $11,490 or less (gross) a year is in poverty standards.

I know that you all LOVE when I bring up my house, but I only say it here because I don't even understand how an individual making less than 12k a year gross could live without a paid for house, even with government benefits.

My apartment in 2009 alone cost more than my average monthly expenses today.

Hell... I was on unemployment for nearly two years and I made nearly 11k more a year on unemployment than I do working 30 hours a week now. And when I work, I sweat balls. I actually love my job. If it paid twice as much as it did, I'd not only be in shape but I'd be financially secure enough to pursue a family life, if I were so inclined.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hell Rappy, all you have to do is light one up and unless you're around close friends you've likely made yourself a few enemies.

I'm generally very mindful of where i smoke. Yes, in the company of other cigar smokers.

Anyone who is offended is simply looking to be offended. That's on them, not me.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
AND BEFORE ANYBODY TELLS ME THAT I SHOULDN'T SMOKE.....

There are more reasons why you shouldn't smoke apart from the cost. The fact that you damage your lungs and significantly increase the risk of heart disease and cancers should be something you think about. You're not young enough to believe that your lifestyle choices don't matter because the repercussions are a long way off.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
AND BEFORE ANYBODY TELLS ME THAT I SHOULDN'T SMOKE.....

There are more reasons why you shouldn't smoke apart from the cost. The fact that you damage your lungs and significantly increase the risk of heart disease and cancers should be something you think about. You're not young enough to believe that your lifestyle choices don't matter because the repercussions are a long way off.

There is actually not a single word you just said that on face value isn't 100% true. I would actually sound quite foolish arguing those points because they're actual facts.

The only opinion there is if I should or shouldn't believe that my lifestyle choices won't negatively impact me because of my age. There are a lot of other factors not limited to I.Q., life experiences, and an open mind. That being said, I know full well that smoking is bad for me. I knew that smoking was bad for me at least 12 years before I tried my first cigarette. I'll likely die a premature death due to some illness that could be contributed to my smoking.

The thing is, I might NOT die of a complication due to smoking. It could be from a complication due to drinking. It could be from a fatal car crash caused by some guy who has already had 7 DUIs in the past. I could be fatally stabbed by a meth addict looking for his next fix. Hell, I could accidentally be killed if some fat guy fell off a laddar while he was working and crushed me.

A history of drunk driving doesn't increase your healthcare premiums under ACA.

A history of hard-core drug addiction doesn't increase your healthcare premiums under ACA.

A history of obesity doesn't increase your healthcare premiums under the ACA.

Maybe you're a slut and you have 7 STDs to go along with your 20 kids all over the place. Not charged a penny more for health insurance.

Maybe you are in desperate need of Anger Management classes and yell at any stranger you know who does something that irritates you, not knowing anything at all about how crazy they might be too? Not charged a penny more for health insurance.

Maybe when you're sitting around stuffing your face with all that greasy shit food and soda while playing video games 8 hours a day, you're setting yourself up to not only die nearly every malady not lung related that a smoker would, but adding several a smoker wouldn't have to worry about. Not charged a penny more for health insurance.

I'm not suggesting that these people should be charged more. It would never even be possible to enforce such a thing, at least with the technology we have at this minute. When we DO have this technology, trust me when I say that they WILL be expanding surcharges to MANY other behaviors in an attempt to curb any behavior the government finds unacceptable.

Remember that scene in 1984 when everyone was woken up at the same time by their 2-way Television sets and they were immediately expected to do watch the screen and do their stretching and excercising for the day? Sure, you didn't have to do it if you didn't feel like it. Chances were that nobody would be the wiser since there isn't enough manpower to watch every person all the time. The fear of some faceless black ops agents riding silent black ops helicopters stealing you away in the middle of the night and disappearing you forever for refusing to do your knee-bends was enough to make sure every citizen complied.

The ONLY way to cut the head off of that snake is to make a federal law that disallows any premiums for smoking, and treating it as any other pre-existing condition. (Really.... take those three words at their face value and it a literal definition of what smoking before the Marketplace opened is).

I'd say allow the smokers that would be required to pay boatloads more should be allowed to opt out without the tax, but that wouldn't work for anybody but people who are in my exact position and agree with me. Not only would you have tons of smokers bitching that they don't have insurance because they're the ONLY group priced out of it, but all the non-smokers would be pissed that we would not only not have to pay for insurance and not pay a tax penalty for not having one, but really, there's no way any hospital would just let me lie on a bed and die if I were gravely ill and didn't have an insurance card. At least today, this is still America.

Don't even get me started on the fact that healthcare.gov says right at the beginning of the application that it's okay if you're not a citizen, you could be eligible too. Isn't joining our Utopian Universal Healthcare system while you are CURRENTLY an illegal-non-tax-paying-citizen a Pre-Existing Condition? Oh... I guess that's okay then. Come inside, the heat's on. Shit... wait.... You don't smoke, do you? No? Okay, great. Please enjoy your stay, on the house.....

Just remember, the SSI system isn't going to be non-existant by the time I reach retirement age because of smokers. Most of them died before they could even collect it, and they sure as hell weren't coming close to any Guiness Book records by reaching ages over 100 and collecting SSI benefits for 40 years-plus.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:35 PM

Quote:
You're not young enough to believe that your lifestyle choices don't matter because the repercussions are a long way off.

We ARE cynical enough, however, to believe that our lifestyle choices don't matter because we're all going to die anyway. Why should we care if it's sooner or later?

Our future is empty, there is NOTHING there, and living that possibility is soul-crushing DRUDGEWORK stretching on like a wasteland. Why would we want to PROLONG our life and better our health at all? Why on Earth should we want to buy insurance to help us pay for medical treatment we don't want anyway? Would rather be left stabbed and bleeding out on the street.

Let Jack smoke if he wants to. Some people you can't help, some people you can't save. It's cruelty to even try. Give us a "just let me die" card to put in our leather clamshells for when we step in front of a train and be done with it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:42 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
AND BEFORE ANYBODY TELLS ME THAT I SHOULDN'T SMOKE.....

I make considerably less than 12k a year at the moment. I don't have cable TV. I don't have a cell phone even. I don't eat out at fancy restaurants, or even ever get fast food for that matter. I haven't bought a new article of clothing outside of Goodwill in the last 4 years. I can't even remember the last time I bought a girl a drink at a bar, and I couldn't even imagine spending an entire night's pay or more just to take a girl out to the movies and buy some popcorn.

My thrills are cheap and I find them when I can. At the end of any given day, I'm childless, I'm disease free, I'm debt free and I'm more eligible a bachelor than pretty much anyone else I've ever known, married or otherwise. ;)

Say what you will about my smoking habit, but then I'll just throw back in your face that your 5 day cruise cost as much as an entire year of cigarettes cost me.

Well... I guess not... anymore....

Has it occurred to you that you might be able to do some other things with your life if you weren't dropping so damned much on smokes (or for that matter, booze)?

A couple days worth of cigs could be enough to take a girl to a movie.

And your "5-day cruise" defense is rather asinine. "Its okay for me to waste money on something that harms me, and makes my health care even more expensive, because, uh.... you did other stuff that didn't harm anyone!"

Yeah, makes sense...

I say this as a former smoker who falls off the wagon from time to time - get your shit together, man.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:56 PM

Pretty sure Jack doesn't really want a girl because he finds them all contemptible. It's not like he can't get the same entertainment value on his own after all.

He's mostly just complaining to complain. It's symptom of a bigger problem though. Like I said, he's someone without a future, same as me.

At the end of the day, hate and anger is all I have, and it all amounts to nothing. All Jack has is a house he's growing to loathe for the obligations it forces on him. Anything else we try would have the exact same end result.

We can try to fill that void but it's a futile effort. It doesn't really matter what method, anger and righteous causes and desperate struggle, or booze and smokes and drugs, or family and friends and children and a home, none of it makes any difference to people like us. No matter what we do, our lives just end up seeming emptier than when we started.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I call bullshit.

You mean to say you never EVER make poor dietary choices, indulge in risky behavior, maybe do things perhaps immoral or unsafe, hrm ?

This is demonisation, this is temperence-grade prohibition via manipulation of law, and it's bullshit any way you slice it, people got a right to be "stupid", but you can't sit there and pick and choose exactly how where and why based on someone elses MORAL objections, that just doesn't fly with me.

You really think HFCS, MSG and all the crap they put in so-called-food these days is any less harmful, ehe ?
*snort*

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:07 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

You really think HFCS, MSG and all the crap they put in so-called-food these days is any less harmful, ehe ?

The head of the nail has been impacted precisely.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 4:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

We ARE cynical enough, however, to believe that our lifestyle choices don't matter because we're all going to die anyway. Why should we care if it's sooner or later?

Our future is empty, there is NOTHING there, and living that possibility is soul-crushing DRUDGEWORK stretching on like a wasteland. Why would we want to PROLONG our life and better our health at all? Why on Earth should we want to buy insurance to help us pay for medical treatment we don't want anyway? Would rather be left stabbed and bleeding out on the street.

Let Jack smoke if he wants to. Some people you can't help, some people you can't save. It's cruelty to even try. Give us a "just let me die" card to put in our leather clamshells for when we step in front of a train and be done with it.

Oh people can do what the heck they like as far as I'm concerned, but its kind of a young person's view that 'we'll all die anyway so who cares'. So I care - I care about the quality of life, rather than the quantity, although I'd like both. I've seen someone close to me lose years of their life to illhealth due to smoking, who otherwise would have been okay. Who had to cart around oxygen tanks, who basically lost the capacity to walk, to breath until death took her far too early, robbing my son of time with his wonderful grandma.

so I say, yeah smoke if you want, but don't be deluded about the costs to you and your family...the real costs, not just the monatary ones.

And yep, thats how insurance work. Its a risk/numbers/dollars game. You fall within high risk categories, you pay the premiums. Just like you pay more when you're older etc

Jack, stop whinging like a baby and grow up. Face the consequences of the behaviour you choose.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 12:07 PM

Quote:
I've seen someone close to me lose years of their life to illhealth due to smoking, who otherwise would have been okay. Who had to cart around oxygen tanks, who basically lost the capacity to walk, to breath until death took her far too early, robbing my son of time with his wonderful grandma.

My grandma smoked three packs a day, my grandpa on the same side also smoked, grandpa had an entire lung removed, grandma died from blood clotting associated with lung cancer. My grandma also developed senile dementia because of the cigarettes, emphysema, low blood oxygen, and alcohol abuse. The alcohol abuse also probably complicated the blood clotting because it interacts with the medication. I know the dangers of smoking and drinking and that Jack probably does too.

I don't smoke because it smells awful, I don't drink because it tastes awful. But don't tell me it's a young person's perspective that we're all going to die anyway. Frem's not exactly young. And I was born this way, I'm not exactly going to grow out of it. The only reason it might be associated with young people is if the ones with this problem mostly die before they get old.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 12:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA

GACK!

Not *that* damn old just yet, and if smoking is what kills me imma laugh my ass off all the way to hell, seriously - the air quality ITSELF in the neighborhood I grew up in was all but lethal, and add in the horrific pollution of the ground and water, asbestos in the buildings plus lead paint, yadda yadda... AQI is *still* in the 400's there and that's the massaged figure.

Far more likely to do me in is my lifestyle, you wanna call it that, and all of the docs seem to think I'll all but a goner already due to cascading neural failure - but yanno I been hearin that good-as-dead-already song and dance since I was like fifteen and have been laughing in their faces ever since.

But it really rooks me, it does, when someone chooses to nitpick one single freakin habit of mine and demonize it like it's some kinda special sin standing out above the others - ESPECIALLY when such moralizing falls flatter than a flapjack due to coming from folks with bad habits of their own which are viewed as more socially/morally acceptable, just like it does when some asshat sitting across from me chewing on an MSG laden granola bar and drinking their aspartame and HFCS loaded diet cola, with a bottled water full of Bisphenol-A in thier bag has the goddamn nerve to lecture ME for eating a fucking cheeseburger.

Seriously, save your breath, cause you ain't no saint either, and my bad habits are very, VERY unlikely to be what does for me, or even any kind of major factor in my eventual demise - bonus irony points for pisspoor, halfassed and inadequate medical care being a much bigger factor in my problems, thus making doctors more of a danger to me than tobacco, statistically.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 2:39 PM

Quote:
GACK!

Not *that* damn old just yet

>_>

Oops? I don't know where I got that impression. Sorry about that.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 3:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Oops? I don't know where I got that impression.

Because imma crochety old bastard and I've BEEN a crochety old bastard since childhood - therefore giving the impression that I'm older than dirt.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 18, 2013 6:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I don't smoke because it smells awful, I don't drink because it tastes awful. But don't tell me it's a young person's perspective that we're all going to die anyway. Frem's not exactly young. And I was born this way, I'm not exactly going to grow out of it. The only reason it might be associated with young people is if the ones with this problem mostly die before they get old.

Well good on you.

I've smoked, and I drink. Not to Six's level of course and I don't post if I've had a few. Lots of other stuff too. I didn't care as much when I was young, because end of life seemed a long way off, and there was plenty of time to get your act together and get things sorted.

Whether you feel indignant about it or not, it is more of a young person's perspective to not give damn about the consequences of their actions, part of that at least is about their brain development. It's why you take more risks when you are younger and you become less prone to risk taking behaviour when you are older.

There are lots of reasons to think about your lifestyle choices, but in the end they are choices that you have made. Trouble is when those choices are addictive...its not so easy to choose NOT to be an alcoholic.

Still, I think some of need some crutches to get us through the day. But you should probably learn accept the consequences....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 21, 2013 8:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
You're not young enough to believe that your lifestyle choices don't matter because the repercussions are a long way off.

We ARE cynical enough, however, to believe that our lifestyle choices don't matter because we're all going to die anyway. Why should we care if it's sooner or later?

Our future is empty, there is NOTHING there, and living that possibility is soul-crushing DRUDGEWORK stretching on like a wasteland. Why would we want to PROLONG our life and better our health at all? Why on Earth should we want to buy insurance to help us pay for medical treatment we don't want anyway? Would rather be left stabbed and bleeding out on the street.

Let Jack smoke if he wants to. Some people you can't help, some people you can't save. It's cruelty to even try. Give us a "just let me die" card to put in our leather clamshells for when we step in front of a train and be done with it.

As dark as that was Byte, I can't argue. I don't feel that I particularly have a death wish, although the idea of living a day over 60 years old isn't at all appealing to me.

Not only will my body be failing me that much more in 26 years, but I can only imagine how much society in general will have plunged the depths of the downward spiral by then.

I think you're onto something with that "just let me die" card though. Every American citizen should be allowed to carry one at any age. Nobody should be forced to undergo any medical procedure and be responsible for paying the bill if they weren't conscious or in their right mind if they had enough motor skills to move a pen.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 21, 2013 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Has it occurred to you that you might be able to do some other things with your life if you weren't dropping so damned much on smokes (or for that matter, booze)?

A couple days worth of cigs could be enough to take a girl to a movie.

And your "5-day cruise" defense is rather asinine. "Its okay for me to waste money on something that harms me, and makes my health care even more expensive, because, uh.... you did other stuff that didn't harm anyone!"

Yeah, makes sense...

I say this as a former smoker who falls off the wagon from time to time - get your shit together, man.

Smokes actually aren't that bad.... I roll my own with "pipe tobacco", which really is just a different cut of cigarette tobacco to avoid the taxes. I buy about 10lbs of it and 25 cartons of rolls every 6 months or so. Any TRUE Pipe smoker wouldn't be caught dead stuffing my tobacco in their pipe. My yearly tobacco costs is about $430.00 or roughly $1.25 per pack. Fortunately, it's an acquired taste and people are generally lazy so I'm figuring it will be quite a while until enough people are doing this that they'll change the law and make it unaffordable for me again.

So.... I'd actually have to sacrifice about a month and a half worth of cigarettes to take a girl to the movies. :)

Booze is another story, since the prices seem to keep going up faster than nearly everything else, but I can't "roll my own" cans. As it stands, I drink just about the cheapest beer that you can buy... the 30 packs. The "beer drinkers beer". I likely spend over $1,200 a year on cheap beer. I COULD shave my booze costs about $400 a year if I could stomach Hamm's beer, but I already posted about that particular brand of Piss in another thread.

All in all, that's a whole lot of bang for your buck. For roughly $1,450 a year I get 2,400 cans of beer and 10,000 cigarettes. I have an uncle who spends nearly 3 times that much for his apartment per month.

I really can't think about too many things that I would enjoy for only $1,450. Surely I can't think of anything I would enjoy so much that I would "blow my load" on it and still be happy when that money was gone and I had to live the other 360 days of the year without a cigarette or a cheap beer.

Comparitevly speaking, and just playing the Devil's Advocate here... how much do you and/or your friends pay for Cable TV? How much do you pay for your cell phone? I haven't had cable TV in 4 years. I just got rid of my cellphone and went to MagicJack. My next 6 months of phone calls are completely free and after that I can pay $100 bucks for 5 years of service. That's about $60 a month I don't pay for cable on top of let's call it $50/mo after startup costs for my new phone. $110x12 = $1,320. Well now, after re-diverting those funds, the $70 a year I spend on booze and smokes just looks pathetic.

Necessities though? $1,450 would be more than enough to buy gutters for my house and garage if I installed them myself. It would also put a large dent in either a central air A/C unit or a Generac. But, again, I'd have to go without a beer or a smoke for the rest of the year to make that purchase. Apparently living in 90 degree temps 2-3 months of the year and sleeping with one eye open whenever it's raining outside is more appealing to me than that.

Do I HAVE to live this way? At least until they stop doing Bankruptcies to bail out poor financial choices, the answer to that question is a resounding NO. I have zero debt, access to nearly 40k in credit cards, and an 810 credit score. Even in this bullshit corner I've painted myself into I'm managing to just about break even. I COULD just run up the tab at the bar and go back to smoking Newports and just file for bankruptcy 3 years from now. Not like I really need my credit score for anything since I only buy used cars under $2k and the house is paid for. It's not like that score has helped me get a better job.

I don't have much but I do pride myself on my financial choices in life, and would never knowingly be irresponsible with what little money I have access to now. The problem is, the amount of money it would cost to find acceptable alternatives to smoking and drinking on the UBER cheap to offset the cravings is completely out of my reach.

If I didn't smoke, I'd likely be on some form of medication to keep me somewhat sane. If I didn't drink, well... I'd have a whole lot of sober time to contemplate just how shitty everything is. Not just in my life either.... I mean in general.

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh people can do what the heck they like as far as I'm concerned, but its kind of a young person's view that 'we'll all die anyway so who cares'. So I care - I care about the quality of life, rather than the quantity, although I'd like both. I've seen someone close to me lose years of their life to illhealth due to smoking, who otherwise would have been okay. Who had to cart around oxygen tanks, who basically lost the capacity to walk, to breath until death took her far too early, robbing my son of time with his wonderful grandma.

so I say, yeah smoke if you want, but don't be deluded about the costs to you and your family...the real costs, not just the monatary ones.

We have all had people in our lives we cared about die from things that could have been avoided. It's not as if nobody in my family ever smoked before me, and I had plenty of examples growing up on why you shouldn't smoke that all of the school and TV programs based around it seemed really stupid.

As far as "family" costs.... well.... I don't have anybody that's dependent on me. Given family history, I seriously doubt any of my "hobbies" are going to cause either of my parents to outlive me, even if I die at a relatively young age because of them. My brother would miss me, but at the same time he's a pretty heavy guy and I could easily be the one that ends up missing him for a few years.

As far as insurance costs... I'll just quote Frem's post that says it better than I could.....

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I call bullshit.

You mean to say you never EVER make poor dietary choices, indulge in risky behavior, maybe do things perhaps immoral or unsafe, hrm ?

This is demonisation, this is temperence-grade prohibition via manipulation of law, and it's bullshit any way you slice it, people got a right to be "stupid", but you can't sit there and pick and choose exactly how where and why based on someone elses MORAL objections, that just doesn't fly with me.

You really think HFCS, MSG and all the crap they put in so-called-food these days is any less harmful, ehe ?
*snort*

-F

So.....

Quote:
And yep, thats how insurance work. Its a risk/numbers/dollars game. You fall within high risk categories, you pay the premiums. Just like you pay more when you're older etc

Jack, stop whinging like a baby and grow up. Face the consequences of the behaviour you choose.

This truly is bullshit. Maybe that is how insurance USED to work, but with ZERO pre-existing conditions allowing insurances companies to deny coverage or raise premiums, that's not how it works anymore. The ONLY TWO factors that are taken into consideration AT ALL in the NEW insurance world is AGE and SMOKING. So go ahead and super-size that meal, pass up any salad tossed your way and light up that crack pipe while you're at it. YOU'RE COVERED!!!!!

I face the reaping that I sow everyday. I am so self-analytical it's damn near crippling.

I've never seen "Despicable Me", but because of where I work I've heard the title because of the toys. I remember the first time I heard it and wondered if it was about me.

If you could walk a mile in my shoes, you'd probably be smoking and drinking too.

Good for you that you don't have to.

Smiley Face :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 21, 2013 4:48 PM

We all make our own choices. With you, its not so much the choices I object to, its the self pitying 'poor me' ethos.

Grow the fuck up

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 21, 2013 10:40 PM

CHRISISALL

We ALL have a pre-existing condition called LIFE.
Just sayin'.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 22, 2013 11:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you could walk a mile in my shoes, you'd probably be smoking and drinking too. Good for you that you don't have to.

6IX, what is is that you're doing that's so damn hard that nobody else on this board isn't doing the same, or more? I can point to people who work hard despite severe and constant pain and disability. People who've faced and overcome a childhood of horrific abuse. People who're taking care of sick or disabled family members, who have no chance to lay down their cares. People who have risen up out of bad marriages and circumstances who've changed and created new lives for themselves. People who own their own houses. People who, by a quirk of neurology, find they must battle their own brains just to function. Almost everybody I know has a burden to carry IRL, and some have many more than one.

So I have to ask: What are you whining about?

And here's the answer: You're a sloppy drunk who "introspects" at the bottom of a sixpack (hmmm, maybe your name should be 6IXPACKJACK instead) entirely engaged in the kind of self pity that drunks are famous for. It has nothing to do with your past earning history, your brain-damaged brother, the house that you own, the fact that you played by Libertarian rules only to find this isn't a libertarian society, your upbringing, or your disappointed sense of entitlement. It has everything to do with EtOH.

You need help, Jack. You can't get it here... this is just like the corner bar for you, where you can drink and cry and fight and carry on ... in a sloppy drunk kind of way... with the other patrons. No, you need help in real life.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 22, 2013 1:21 PM