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Hope those little thuggettes aren't any relation to Chrissy. I mean, sometimes evil like that can run in the family. Wishing others would die, over the internet ... that's just mean.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Hope those little thuggettes aren't any relation to Chrissy. I mean, sometimes evil like that can run in the family. Wishing others would die, over the internet ... that's just mean.

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how does a 12-year old girl get that way, and what is to be done with her.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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how does a 12-year old girl get that way, and what is to be done with her.

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1) Internet
2) Community Service

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
"Polk County deputies have arrested and charged a 12-year-old girl and 14-year-old girl with felony aggravated stalking after the death of Rebecca Sedwick.

Her mother has said her daughter was bullied by several people she knew before the girl took her own life.

The sheriff's office was looking into as many as 15 girls last month. Now, deputies say two girls face felony charges.

Rebecca was just 12 years old. Her mother says she was bullied at Crystal Lake Middle School, so she pulled her out and home-schooled Rebecca for a few months last year.

One of the girls charged had posted this to her Facebook page ...

"Yes i bullied REBECCA nd she killed her self but IDGAF"

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It's Gore's fault. Him and his damn internet! Must be tough for kids these days.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Hope those little thuggettes aren't any relation to Chrissy. I mean, sometimes evil like that can run in the family. Wishing others would die, over the internet ... that's just mean.

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That's just the internet. It's an eldritch abomination that sprung from the human collective and which erodes empathy and humanity the longer you're in contact with it. Very few kids can handle prolonged exposure and come out whole and sane. Constant information and entertainment bombardment and rampant cruelty combine into a perfect storm of creating people who are easily bored and like to hurt other people for laughs.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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how does a 12-year old girl get that way, and what is to be done with her.

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1) Internet
2) Community Service

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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how does a 12-year old girl get that way, and what is to be done with her.

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1) Internet
2) Community Service

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I think we're well beyond community service. It wasn't enough that they drove this girl out, they seem to have kept after her, until she couldn't stand it any more. Kinda like here... certain folks start an entire thread purely for the purpose of attacking others , name calling them, and these are folks they don't even KNOW.

Takes a certain kind of coward to be so bent out of shape to do something like that.

Takes the mentality of a heartless 12 year old girl, it would seem.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think the forum is the crux of the matter. There's a huge difference between posting anonymously versus posting to people you know from school or work. I imagine it could indeed be devastating, especially for emotionally fragile children.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Okay, you might have a point, it's not just internet. I've known girls and guys who do this and never grow out of it. If anything being twelve is possibly an opportunity to fix it, it's an awkward terrible age of hormones and kids acting out and their personalities aren't set.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Okay, you might have a point, it's not just internet. I've known girls and guys who do this and never grow out of it. If anything being twelve is possibly an opportunity to fix it, it's an awkward terrible age of hormones and kids acting out and their personalities aren't set.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

There's a big difference, we're adults. We can handle a little criticsm.
What these girls did was tantamount to pushing her off the roof top of that tower.

You cannot compare this to that.

Shame on you!


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I don't think community service will do anything to change that older girl's behavior (the one that wrote IDGAF - I don't give a f*ck) is 14 years old. How does a girl that young get that way?

Her parents are in denial and don't believe that she was the bully behind this tragedy. She reportedly did not show any remorse or emotion when she was arrested. The clue of how she got that way could lie at the parents feet.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Always count on the raptard to make anything into a poorly-thought-out attack on the left. Such a degenerate.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
There's a big difference, we're adults. We can handle a little criticsm.
What these girls did was tantamount to pushing her off the roof top of that tower.

You cannot compare this to that.

Shame on you!


SGG

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I think we're well beyond community service.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've seen too many examples of bullying where it turns out it was intergenerational bullying and part of the town politics.

The parents might not be so much in denial but rather pretending to be, to play the same game they've always played where their family isn't held accountable.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Always count on the raptard to make anything into a poorly-thought-out attack on the left. Such a degenerate.

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Thanks for making my case for me!


Cheers!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Stepmother of 'bully' on abuse charge

The stepmother of a 14-year-old accused of bullying a Florida girl who took her own life has been arrested for child abuse after a video was posted online.

Vivian Vosburg, 30, is allegedly shown punching and hitting two boys in a video posted to Facebook in July 2013.

Ms Vosburg's stepdaughter was among two children charged with aggravated stalking this week, who are said to have bullied Rebecca Sedwick online.

Rebecca jumped to her death from a tower on 9 September.

Authorities said she was "terrorised" online and through text messages by up to 15 former friends.

Ms Vosburg identified herself as the mother of 14-year-old when she appeared on broadcasters CNN and ABC to say the girl did not bully Rebecca and that she checked her stepdaughter's Facebook every night.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said the bullying campaign had begun last year after the girl objected to Rebecca dating a boy whom she had been seeing.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Your case was that you'll turn a non political conversation into a nonsensical attack on the left?

You concealed your true meaning well.

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Apple doesn't fall far from tree.

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Stepmother of 'bully' on abuse charge

The stepmother of a 14-year-old accused of bullying a Florida girl who took her own life has been arrested for child abuse after a video was posted online.

Vivian Vosburg, 30, is allegedly shown punching and hitting two boys in a video posted to Facebook in July 2013.

Ms Vosburg's stepdaughter was among two children charged with aggravated stalking this week, who are said to have bullied Rebecca Sedwick online.

Rebecca jumped to her death from a tower on 9 September.

Authorities said she was "terrorised" online and through text messages by up to 15 former friends.

Ms Vosburg identified herself as the mother of 14-year-old when she appeared on broadcasters CNN and ABC to say the girl did not bully Rebecca and that she checked her stepdaughter's Facebook every night.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said the bullying campaign had begun last year after the girl objected to Rebecca dating a boy whom she had been seeing.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24589032

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when bullies in school finally ran up against someone who'd fight back, their parents would either threaten the other kid's parents, or whine that their child couldn't possibly do such a thing, or both.

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As someone who has experienced a lot of bullying and fought a lot of bullies, I have in fact encountered many bullies who had no home life problems themselves, but were spoiled. Mostly self-righteous little assholes ostracizing people who aren't their religion.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
As someone who has experienced a lot of bullying and fought a lot of bullies, I have in fact encountered many bullies who had no home life problems themselves, but were spoiled. Mostly self-righteous little assholes ostracizing people who aren't their religion. There are also the people with no home problems who participate because they're cowardly hanger-ons peer pressured into the bullying.

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I concede she may not be spoiled, but rather troubled, although both are only one option out of many possibilities.

I don't know the girl or her history well enough to make that call. The stepmother hitting boys in the household could be indicative, if it is shown that the woman also was hitting the girl. Favouritism can be a thing that happens in families. The fact that the stepmother is reacting with complete ignorance could be either her trying to cover up the abuse, or, it could be that the girl is the favourite and the woman can't conceive of such a precious little girl doing anything wrong.

And as I said before, it could also be the parents were encouraging the girl to bully.

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But its possible that in your school, the religiously favored were themselves encouraged to bully by a sense of righteousness.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But all in all, it seems to me there are a lot of routes to bullying. Being abused in the house, or having superior community standing doesn't predict whether a person will be a bully or not. I think some kids start down that behavioral path for whatever reason, and they find it rewarding (and it IS intrinsically rewarding in many ways) and nobody cuts that short.

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But wouldn't you consider that being taught to be an asshole or harmful upbringing? And how do you know there were no home life problems? How would you define home life problems, to exclude what they may or may not have experienced?

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I just find the idea of "spoiled" to be misleading because it implies that not enough harshness was exacted on children, which I find a very problematic concept.

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Being the favorite of an abusive parent still makes her an involuntary part of systematic abuse, just as a (captive) witness or accomplice, another form of victim. It's hugely damaging. Calling her "spoiled" should be utterly out of the question, shouldn't it?

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
With the people who are troubled they actually take a break sometimes from being a jerk to people and sometimes care how they treat people. The other kind never lose their snobby self-assurance that they're perfect and everyone else is trash and beneath them.

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I just find the idea of "spoiled" to be misleading because it implies that not enough harshness was exacted on children, which I find a very problematic concept.

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Oh, I see. No, I'm not a discipline freak. I wasn't suggesting any parenting methods. More just saying some kids really are spoiled, sometimes people don't have any deep-seated family problems behind why they act like a jerk. I mean, you're talking to a perfect example right here.

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Being the favorite of an abusive parent still makes her an involuntary part of systematic abuse, just as a (captive) witness or accomplice, another form of victim. It's hugely damaging. Calling her "spoiled" should be utterly out of the question, shouldn't it?

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Ehhh... I'm not really sure those are mutually exclusive. If she was a favourite and participated in bullying the other boys she could be both spoiled AND living in an abusive environment. How people respond under bad situations says a lot about their character. Some people don't become abusers themselves, some people do. I don't think very highly of the people who do, no matter what they themselves went through.

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I'm not sure this is necessarily true. Maybe we have different definitions of troubled, but I don't think there's a solid demarcation line between those who only occasionally bully being victims of harmful homelives and those who consistently bully being completely fine apart from inexplicably being assholes.

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Not setting necessary boundaries or imparting a sense of divisive entitlement are a form of neglect or a form of miseducation. Neither are good things, but rather failures.

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and then when she absorbs what she is literally taught it becomes a question of intrinsic character, her own responsibility, at age 14, to have rejected these messages she likely was fed her entire life?

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I think it's more that I'm not being clear. With people who are troubled, you're right, sometimes it's non-stop bullying and hell-raising, sometimes it seems like no one can get through to them. But with people who are troubled versus people who are assholes, sometimes the mask breaks. Sometimes you see them get upset or have regret.

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Not setting necessary boundaries or imparting a sense of divisive entitlement are a form of neglect or a form of miseducation. Neither are good things, but rather failures.

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I don't think we can blame everything that kids do and how they act on their parents or guardians. Kids aren't just little handpuppets we raise, they have their own ideas and personalities and they make their own choices. Sometimes the environment is less than ideal, but the measure of the person is how they react in response to that environment.

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and then when she absorbs what she is literally taught it becomes a question of intrinsic character, her own responsibility, at age 14, to have rejected these messages she likely was fed her entire life?

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Absolutely. Frankly, she should have rejected the message earlier if it bothered her. I'm not so sure it DID bother her.

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I mean, ask Frem, who was raised around some pretty extreme racism and religious intolerance about kids suffering abuse deciding to reject that abuse. Kids aren't passive participants in their own lives, and they aren't locked up unable to learn what the outside world considers normal or right or wrong. If you perpetuate abuse, you have some responsibility in that, no matter how old you are or what your history was.

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But if abuse turned them into assholes, how would you even be able to tell? The "mask" doesn't break, but they're still products of the same thing they are dishing out.

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So you think there is an intrinsic form of character that simply exists in people and how they are taught from day one how the world works has insignificant influence on how they eventually interact with the world?

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If you don't know that what you experience is abuse, if you are raised to identify with the abuser, where do you gain the perspective to reject that cycle? You're placing a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of children.

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To condemn her as somehow inherently, deliberately degenerate because she internalized her environment, especially when she is still young enough for positive changes to have a real impact on her destructive world view? I can't condone that.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You're viewing this from your own frame of reference that you "never broke" and that you were cruel to people. But you would not be the person you are right now if the mask hadn't broken at some point.

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So you think there is an intrinsic form of character that simply exists in people and how they are taught from day one how the world works has insignificant influence on how they eventually interact with the world?

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No, but I am saying that people have responsibility for their own actions, no matter what.

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Damn right I do, because it's the same responsibility I'd place on any other human being barring extenuating circumstances like being locked up. They have the ABILITY to find out what things are like outside their family. Even INFANTS can intrinsically recognize concepts like fairness and right and wrong and abuse.

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If they do not question their complicity in abuse, then that is because they do not WANT to question. That isn't just the abuse, that's also a failing on their own part.

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Humans are imperfect sometimes, and sometimes they harm other people. Is it wrong for me to say that victims of abuse can sometimes do wrong themselves? Her parents may be awful people, but this one is on her.

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To condemn her as somehow inherently, deliberately degenerate because she internalized her environment, especially when she is still young enough for positive changes to have a real impact on her destructive world view? I can't condone that.

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Uh... What? Since when did I say she is inherently, deliberately degenerate, or dismiss her capacity for change? When did I stop advocating that she receive counseling, and get involved with the community to build more healthy bonds and emotional understanding with people. Did I suddenly join the ranks of the people who hate her and are calling for her blood when I wasn't paying attention?

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I don't understand why my opinion on this bothers you. We both seem to think she bears responsibility.

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It felt like a wholesale dismissal of the latter group, the existence of which I don't buy.

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I find myself quite sensitive to things that I believe belittle the struggles of young kids in abusive environments

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I have to believe kids are fully capable. And if they're fully capable, then they also have responsibility if they do wrong.

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If they don't, if they're really not in control of their own choices or their lives, and it's all a reaction to what the parents have done to them, then how exactly do we fix that?

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I have to believe kids are fully capable.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Of all the things schools have 'zero tolerance' for - poptarts shaped like a gun, aspirin, rat-tail combs ... perhaps bullying would be an appropriate zero-tolerance target. That would go for off-campus actions as well. Not that I think we should be considering a total surveillance state for our children, but if victims come forward with evidence, it should cross a threshold for cyber-investigation by authorities.

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