REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The End is...NOW!

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Thursday, October 24, 2013 09:11
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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:05 AM

WHOZIT

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:15 AM

BYTEMITE


On one hand, ObamaCare is the reason, but on the other hand, it's obviously being used as an excuse by the insurance companies.

Not only that, but they basically waited as long as possible to inform people of the changes, seeing as most people have to be signed up by early November to be approved by January. Perhaps hoping concessions would be won for them on ObamaCare.

I think I hate insurance companies as much as I do politicians. They try to get some little advantage or another while everyone else gets screwed.

I don't understand the "End is Now" thing though. AuRaptor said something about armageddon in another thread and I'm pretty sure he's atheist. What's up guys?

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:27 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
On one hand, ObamaCare is the reason, but on the other hand, it's obviously being used as an excuse by the insurance companies.

Not only that, but they basically waited as long as possible to inform people of the changes, seeing as most people have to be signed up by early November to be approved by January. Perhaps hoping concessions would be won for them on ObamaCare.

I think I hate insurance companies as much as I do politicians. They try to get some little advantage or another while everyone else gets screwed.

I don't understand the "End is Now" thing though. AuRaptor said something about armageddon in another thread and I'm pretty sure he's atheist. What's up guys?



The end isn't near, it's now! All the horror storys that were told by Republicans about Obamacare are now no longger storys, they're now what is happening. The disaster that is Obamacare isn't near, it's now! The left and their whores in the MSM can't spin this, as a matter of fact the press is begining to turn on Barry. But it doesn't matter now, Barry can no logger run again and the damage is done.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:43 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh okay.

I mean when someone says "The End is Now" in such a apocalyptic way, I usually think of war and raining blood and fire.

Obama couldn't run a third time anyway without breaking the twenty second amendment and even he isn't that blatant. But I can see how you'd be happy about a politician falling on his face. I dislike politicians myself.

You should have an armageddon party. Like maybe you can take that idea I had for a government shutdown barbeque and tweak it.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Omigosh. Armageddon Party would either be a great name for a metal album, or a fun fiction story about the inevitable fracturing of the two party political system.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:41 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
On one hand, ObamaCare is the reason, but on the other hand, it's obviously being used as an excuse by the insurance companies.



Just an excuse. The health care law states that the requirments are only for new plans. The insurance companies are simply doing this in hopes people will get more expensive plans.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:06 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Nick, it's just more of "same old, same old".

And I fully agree with "I think I hate insurance companies as much as I do politicians. They try to get some little advantage or another while everyone else gets screwed." I KNOW I hate them more. Their lobbyists helped the right make the ACA as weak as humanly (politically) possible, they STILL get huge gimmies out of it, and they've been lying through their teeth and playing every game imaginable trying to kill it ever since.

Insurance is gambling, everyone knows it. We bet we're going to get sick enough to cost them money; they bet they can charge us more than we'll cost them. That would be fair gambling, but they come up with every trick in the book to AVOID paying when they "lose" the "bet"; at least the ACA helps a little bit with that.

"End is now" is just so asinine it's not worth addressing.


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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:19 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah, Nick, it's just more of "same old, same old".

And I fully agree with "I think I hate insurance companies as much as I do politicians. They try to get some little advantage or another while everyone else gets screwed." I KNOW I hate them more. Their lobbyists helped the right make the ACA as weak as humanly (politically) possible, they STILL get huge gimmies out of it, and they've been lying through their teeth and playing every game imaginable trying to kill it ever since.

Insurance is gambling, everyone knows it. We bet we're going to get sick enough to cost them money; they bet they can charge us more than we'll cost them. That would be fair gambling, but they come up with every trick in the book to AVOID paying when they "lose" the "bet"; at least the ACA helps a little bit with that.

"End is now" is just so asinine it's not worth addressing.




You can't blame the the right for any of this, their hands are clean. Obamacare is a disaster NOW, not about to happen. You commies arn't going to be able to control this damage, Barry and the left own this mess 100%. If they postpone this mess for 6 months to year Sen. Cruz is going to end up looking really good, the shutdown is in the past now, Obamacare is making a mess now and in the future. You libs are going to make asses on yourselves spinning this...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:19 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah, Nick, it's just more of "same old, same old".

And I fully agree with "I think I hate insurance companies as much as I do politicians. They try to get some little advantage or another while everyone else gets screwed." I KNOW I hate them more. Their lobbyists helped the right make the ACA as weak as humanly (politically) possible, they STILL get huge gimmies out of it, and they've been lying through their teeth and playing every game imaginable trying to kill it ever since.

Insurance is gambling, everyone knows it. We bet we're going to get sick enough to cost them money; they bet they can charge us more than we'll cost them. That would be fair gambling, but they come up with every trick in the book to AVOID paying when they "lose" the "bet"; at least the ACA helps a little bit with that.

"End is now" is just so asinine it's not worth addressing.




You can't blame the the right for any of this, their hands are clean. Obamacare is a disaster NOW, not about to happen. You commies arn't going to be able to control this damage, Barry and the left own this mess 100%. If they postpone this mess for 6 months to year Sen. Cruz is going to end up looking really good, the shutdown is in the past, Obamacare is making a mess NOW and in the future. You libs are going to make asses of yourselves spinning this...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:26 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
You can't blame the the right for any of this, their hands are clean. Obamacare is a disaster NOW, not about to happen. You commies arn't going to be able to control this damage, Barry and the left own this mess 100%. If they postpone this mess for 6 months to year Sen. Cruz is going to end up looking really good, the shutdown is in the past, Obamacare is making a mess NOW and in the future. You libs are going to make asses of yourselves spinning this...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!



Yes, people finally being able to afford health insurance is a disaster. So much so the GOP knows that as people sign up and learn more about it people are going to like it. Repeal will become impossible.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:35 PM

WHOZIT







Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
You can't blame the the right for any of this, their hands are clean. Obamacare is a disaster NOW, not about to happen. You commies arn't going to be able to control this damage, Barry and the left own this mess 100%. If they postpone this mess for 6 months to year Sen. Cruz is going to end up looking really good, the shutdown is in the past, Obamacare is making a mess NOW and in the future. You libs are going to make asses of yourselves spinning this...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!



Yes, people finally being able to afford health insurance is a disaster. So much so the GOP knows that as people sign up and learn more about it people are going to like it. Repeal will become impossible.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



It's more expencive, and they've taken the word "free" off the site. It'll be more expencive, you'll pay a higher deductable and you'll lose your doctor. Barry said you'd save $2,500 a year and keep your doctor. Libs can't run away from the truth, facts are facts. You libs won't be able to spin this, people are really going to be pissed when they are forced to buy your over priced garbage. YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS! Obamacare is going to do a lot of damage and you libs will make asses of yourselves defending it. You should stop now before you really make fools of yourselves...keep going

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:50 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
It's more expencive, and they've taken the word "free" off the site. It'll be more expencive, you'll pay a higher deductable and you'll lose your doctor. Barry said you'd save $2,500 a year and keep your doctor. Libs can't run away from the truth, facts are facts. You libs won't be able to spin this, people are really going to be pissed when they are forced to buy your over priced garbage. YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS! Obamacare is going to do a lot of damage and you libs will make asses of yourselves defending it. You should stop now before you really make fools of yourselves...keep going



Funny thing is everyone that has looked into this finds that the plans are not more expencive. More so when you add the government subsities. People will also not pay a higher deductable because those are now capped. As far as doctors, well people can choose a plan which includes there doctor, if they even have to switch at all.

The facts are the facts, you just don't have any.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 3:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nick, Nick, Nick, you're pissing into the wind. ;o) "Facts" mean nothing; he's got his marching orders, he's got his talking points, he doesn't care if they're true or not. Give it up, my man, nothing will ever get through. By the way, it's "expensive", and for some, yes, it will be, because insurance companies will play the game, charge higher premiums to make up for what they're losing by playing the game as they do NOW.
Quote:

For example, there are no more annual or lifetime limits on essential health benefits such as hospitalizations or prescription drugs. Insurance companies can’t throw clients off the rolls when they get sick or choose not to insure those with pre-existing conditions.

"For most people, health insurance will be vastly less expensive than the plans that were previously available and are far less costly than facing potential illnesses with no health care coverage at all," Pallone said in a statement. Sitko agreed, saying he feels he is being offered a better deal, given the new minimum standards insurance companies must meet and new regulations with which they must comply.

Douglas Johnston, government affairs manager with AARP New Jersey, which supports the law, said looking at the few who may find it difficult to purchase health insurance misses the larger picture. " While we certainly understand people expect cheaper insurance than they find, one of the many purposes (of the law) is to bring more people into the insurance marketplace," he said.

Experts have little doubt that will occur. The Congressional Budget Office estimates 16 million more Americans will have health insurance in 2014 because of the Affordable Care Act. To help people purchase insurance, the law provides subsidies to any individual making less than $45,960 or a family of four making less than $94,200. That covers about 95 percent of the uninsured in New Jersey, according to the Center for State Health Policy at Rutgers University.

But the uninsured aren’t the only ones who find themselves shopping for a new plan. That’s because the Affordable Care Act requires health insurance plans meet minimum standards and provide many preventive services — like colonoscopies and mammograms — free of charge.



No, it's not perfect, it's not even great, but it's the best we could get to start out with: "Wrinkles and warts in this new system should not be too surprising, said Uwe Reinhardt, a health economics expert and the James Madison professor of political economy at Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School. He compared the Affordable Care Act to a tourniquet on a gushing wound. The patch may be ugly, he said, but it is an improvement." That's about the size of it. The righties will just continue to spew. IT'S WHAT THEY DO, y'know?


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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 3:42 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


I would give it up, but it is to easy. Plus I want anyone that comes by this place to see how idiotic these guys are.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:11 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I would give it up, but it is to easy. Plus I want anyone that comes by this place to see how idiotic these guys are.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



I know you'll never give up, no matter how bad it gets you libs will circle the wagons and defend your God no matter how stupid you end up looking. You can put all the lipstick on this pig as you like, but it'll still be a Obama...I mean a pig.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:25 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
I know you'll never give up, no matter how bad it gets you libs will circle the wagons and defend your God no matter how stupid you end up looking. You can put all the lipstick on this pig as you like, but it'll still be a Obama...I mean a pig.



How bad it gets? Really what is getting bad? The economy is improving, slowly, but improving. The health care law is getting more popular as people learn more about it. More people will have access to health insurance and be able to pay for health care. So I ask, what is getting bad?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:10 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I would give it up, but it is to easy. Plus I want anyone that comes by this place to see how idiotic these guys are.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



I know you'll never give up, no matter how bad it gets you libs will circle the wagons and defend your God no matter how stupid you end up looking. You can put all the lipstick on this pig as you like, but it'll still be a Obama...I mean a pig.



Another dispatch from moron wingnut land!

Im honestly amazed you can even figure out how to turn your computer on.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:21 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Why does anyone even bother with the zit? He never has anything to say, he just repeats old memes over and over, as nasty as he can make them, and never makes a valid point. He truly is a zit on the face of the forum, in my humble opinion. Even RAP makes more "sense"...relatively that is.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:23 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Why does anyone even bother with the zit? He never has anything to say, he just repeats old memes over and over, as nasty as he can make them, and never makes a valid point. He truly is a zit on the face of the forum, in my humble opinion. Even RAP makes more "sense"...relatively that is.



...because we pay him damn good money to play a conservative on this site.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:25 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

...because we pay him damn good money to play a conservative on this site.


o.0

Oh hello paranoia. I didn't need sleep tonight anyway.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:35 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Prize for first guffaw of the day goes to Nick!

And just for the fun of it...if the ACA rollout is such a monumental disaster, then what about a few years ago?
Quote:

The last time the government expanded health care, it was also kind of a disaster

If you think the launch of HealthCare.Gov isn't going so well, consider this: When online shopping for prescription drug programs launched back in 2005, things went so badly that the federal government didn't even get off the ground until three weeks after its scheduled launch.

The first obstacle was one of scheduling: Officials had initially scheduled the launch shopping component of the Web site on the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur.



The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services decided to delay the launch, per then spokesman Gary Karr, as to "respect all partners out there and their religious beliefs,"

But even after that, the site where seniors were supposed to compare drug prescription insurance plans didn't launch until November.



"The Medicare folks have had some trouble getting the tool up and running," then-Washington Post reporter Chris Lee wrote on Nov. 8, 2005. "The original debut date was Oct. 13, but officials delayed it, citing the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur. Next it was promised on Oct. 17, but that day, too, came and went without personalized plan comparisons being available."

A news briefing promised the site would be up and in the afternoon. It didn't happen. "Visitors to the site could not access it for most of the first two hours,: Lee reported. "When it finally did come up around 5 p.m., it operated awfully slowly."

"Certainly I remember, thinking back to 2005, that the launch of the Web site was challenging," says Jack Hoadley, a researcher at Georgetown University who has studied the Part D program since before its launch. "It was pretty regularly a source of frustration just like what we're experiencing now."

What Hoadley says surprised him though, reading back through old news clips over the past few days, is just how challenged the program's digital launch was. "I look back and remember it was rocky," he says, "But I don't think I remember the degree of the rockiness that was the case."

There were other challenges too. As Hoadley and his colleagues wrote in a recent paper on Part D's launch, when seniors called the 1-800 Medicare phone number for help, a review found the agency "only responded to calls accurately and completely only about two-thirds of the time."

Lee reported that an annual booklet sent out to seniors called "Medicare & You" contained "inaccurate details about some of the prescription plan choices." CMS later had to post a chart on the Web site with the accurate information.

The delays of the Medicare.Gov Web site weren't as big news as the glitches with HealthCare.Gov. Both of the stories above ran on page A17 of the news section, unlike the HealthCare.Gov stories that have regularly been landing on the front page.

Gary Karr, who served as a spokesman for Medicare during the rollout, doesn't remember the initial enrollment period being especially difficult. It was right after people signed up that was the real crunch time.

"The enrollment felt pretty good," he says. "The first three weeks of the actual benefit did not feel so good, especially the first week and a half. Every glitch was a problem that got reported in the local papers. That's how it felt to us."

What does seem similar, between the Part D launch and the health law's, is the quick rush to jump to conclusions about success or failure.

"There was also a rush to conclude something is good or bad really fast," Karr says. "That's not different than it was in 2005. Generally, the political system is not patient."

The data suggests that perhaps it should be: Medicare Part D, which is now wildly popular with seniors, had horrible approval ratings when it launched.

These days, about 90 percent of seniors say they are satisfied with their Part D coverage.

"The coverage that people ultimately get is the kind of coverage that they're looking for," Hoadley said of the Part D program. "They don't remember the glitches in the first weeks of getting coverage. It's the coverage that sticks with people." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/11/the-last-ti
me-the-government-expanded-health-care-it-was-also-kind-of-a-disaster/



Let's see, who was President in 2005? Oh, my, It's All Bush's Fault!!!




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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:50 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Why does anyone even bother with the zit? He never has anything to say, he just repeats old memes over and over, as nasty as he can make them, and never makes a valid point. He truly is a zit on the face of the forum, in my humble opinion. Even RAP makes more "sense"...relatively that is.


Why does anyone bother with you? You act like the form is your own private blog.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 7:58 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Why does anyone even bother with the zit? He never has anything to say, he just repeats old memes over and over, as nasty as he can make them, and never makes a valid point. He truly is a zit on the face of the forum, in my humble opinion. Even RAP makes more "sense"...relatively that is.


Why does anyone bother with you? You act like the form is your own private blog.



Aw, look, he's trying to come as clever by repeating niki's phrasing.

Well, bless his heart for trying.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:25 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Seems to me the whole thing has been a compromise from start to finish, and probably not for the better.

Would it be true to say that the current system, or the one you are about to get, sits somewhere between the private/public system because Americans were basically made so anxious about public health by the right wingers who continue to use ridiculous, laughable, stupid scare tactics about

..being the first step in becoming a stalinist state
...worse that slavery
...death panels
...Big Brother will be watching you while you get your evasive internal examination

So no matter how stupid, fear is powerful and having a fearful electorate and powerful business lobbyists like the medical insurance industry, you've ended up with some bastard child who doesn't know their daddy.

Oh well, even bastard children without daddy's can do well. Let's hoping that the teething problems, which would happen in major change can get worked out, and America can end up with a health system that works ok for the majority of the population.

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You pretty much nailed it, Magons. Plus how our politics work (well, how ALL politics works to a degree the world over); you know, moneyed interests, lobbyists, etc.

But you see, Social Security and Medicare were much the same...all they could get through the political process WAS a "bastard child", and over the years, bit by bit, they improved them. As it was, so shall it always be.

But the bottom line is that the Republicans didn't want any changes, something had to be done, and
Quote:

Wrinkles and warts in this new system should not be too surprising, said Uwe Reinhardt, a health economics expert and the James Madison professor of political economy at Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School. He compared the Affordable Care Act to a tourniquet on a gushing wound. The patch may be ugly, he said, but it is an improvement.



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