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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Illinois Just Became 15th State To Allow Equality
Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:54 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Illinois Sends Bill Allowing Gay Marriage to Governor The Illinois House of Representatives voted Tuesday to allow same-sex couples to wed, ending months of delay over the issue in the Capitol and clearing the way for Illinois to become the 15th state, along with the District of Columbia, to permit gay couples to marry. The vote was 61 to 54, mostly along partisan lines, with only three Republicans voting yes. “In Illinois, we tried civil unions and that separate status has time and time again proved to fall short,” said State Representative Greg Harris, a sponsor of the bill, urging his House colleagues to approve the measure on Tuesday. The measure passed the Illinois Senate in February, but for procedural reasons it had to be voted on there again. On Tuesday, the Senate quickly approved changes the House made to the bill, sending it to the desk of Gov. Pat Quinn, a Democrat who has said he will sign it. Illinois couples could begin marrying on June 1. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/us/illinois-sends-bill-allowing-gay-marriage-to-governor.html?_r=0
Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:56 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Wednesday, November 6, 2013 2:14 AM
ELVISCHRIST
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Dads can marry their daughters ?
Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:48 AM
Quote:Chris Christie ahead of the GOP curve on same-sex marriage New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie made headlines when he backed away from his opposition to same-sex marriage in New Jersey. Although he had initially indicated that he would challenge the recent court decision, Christie reversed course and announced that he would follow the law of his state. A growing number of Republicans have already backed away from their opposition to same-sex marriage. Christie is just one of those who have changed the tone of the party on this cultural question -- a group that includes Sens. Lisa Murkowski and Robert Portman and former Vice President Dick Cheney -- in an era when polarization has become stronger on almost every other issue. As Mitt Romney adviser David Kochel said, "Opposing the freedom to marry is a loser for our party and serves to drive away a growing number of voters who have turned the page." So, even though Christie is taking a risk through his recent announcement, the odds are that many other Republicans won't be far behind. The gay rights movement has profoundly shifted the debate and advanced the cause of gay rights far beyond what anyone had imagined just a few years ago. By taking one of the most familiar and central conservative arguments of our era, marriage, and embracing it as one of their own, the movement has gained legitimacy for the right of gay Americans to build their own families. There will be huge pressure on Republicans in the coming years to get on the right side of this issue and movement activists have made it easier for leaders in the GOP to come around to their side. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/opinion/zelizer-chris-christie-gay-rights/
Thursday, November 7, 2013 3:19 AM
Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:08 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ElvisChrist: Raptor still can't explain why same-sex marriage is exactly like marrying your daughter or marrying in threes.
Quote: I know there's lots of incest and polygamy in christianity. Maybe his religious beliefs won't let him think outside the box.
Thursday, November 7, 2013 7:30 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Still? I have done so, here, plenty of times. It's called social history. And the biological fact that only those of different sexes can produce an offspring. I'll never understand why " marriage " can't just mean 1 thing, and other situations can't be called something else. They clearly are different.
Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:21 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Threesomes can now be wed ?
Thursday, November 7, 2013 10:51 AM
Thursday, November 7, 2013 10:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Threesomes can now be wed ? If it's informed, consenting adults, what's your problem with it? "When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:42 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because words mean things
Quote:& " marriage " isn't a threesome.]
Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:43 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Thursday, November 7, 2013 1:57 PM
MAL4PREZ
Thursday, November 7, 2013 2:01 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because words mean things & " marriage " isn't a threesome.
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Muslims have multiple wives as well. Or did that fact escape you as well ?
Thursday, November 7, 2013 2:06 PM
AGENTROUKA
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: I now present AURaptor in "Arguing With Myself" Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because words mean things & " marriage " isn't a threesome. Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Muslims have multiple wives as well. Or did that fact escape you as well ? I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Thursday, November 7, 2013 2:32 PM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Dads can marry their daughters ? Threesomes can now be wed ? Wooo hooo!!
Thursday, November 7, 2013 2:40 PM
Friday, November 8, 2013 3:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Threesomes can now be wed ? If it's informed, consenting adults, what's your problem with it? "When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that." Because words mean things & " marriage " isn't a threesome. Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen Resident USA Freedom Fundie " AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
Friday, November 8, 2013 3:37 AM
Friday, November 8, 2013 7:45 AM
Friday, November 8, 2013 7:48 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ElvisChrist: Bingo. Is there a valid reason why any two - or MORE - consenting adults shouldn't be allowed to enter into a marriage? "Because it kills my boner to think about it" isn't a valid reason.
Friday, November 8, 2013 7:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: You can take any random comments, out of context, and try to do the same trick as you're doing here. Pretty pathetic, and intellectually dishonest, on your part.
Friday, November 8, 2013 8:13 AM
Friday, November 8, 2013 8:29 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: You can take any random comments, out of context, and try to do the same trick as you're doing here. Pretty pathetic, and intellectually dishonest, on your part. The only thing that is dishonest here is you. Marriage has vastly different definitions to different people. You understand this but willingly ignore it. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: "You can take any random comments, out of context, and try to do the same trick as you're doing here. Pretty pathetic, and intellectually dishonest, on your part." Exactly like taking "same-sex marriage" and equating it to polygamy and incest, which are totally unrelated...why not go for man-on-dog while you're at it?
Friday, November 8, 2013 10:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: How am I being in the least bit dishonest. Historically, for the vast majority of the western world, marriage has been 1 man + 1 woman. That's not remotely up for debate.
Friday, November 8, 2013 10:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: How am I being in the least bit dishonest. Historically, for the vast majority of the western world, marriage has been 1 man + 1 woman. That's not remotely up for debate. Absolutley true. Even the depraved and debauched ancient Romans only sanctioned marraiges between one man and one woman. There were no gay or group marraiges there, and there weren't any gay or group marraiges in ancient Greece either. Greece in it's Golden Age became the foundation of democracy, but they still drew a moral line against sexual deviancy.
Friday, November 8, 2013 11:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ElvisChrist: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Threesomes can now be wed ? If it's informed, consenting adults, what's your problem with it? "When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that." Because words mean things & " marriage " isn't a threesome. Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen Resident USA Freedom Fundie " AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall You've never been able to define what exactly a "marriage" is. Without relying on ANY religious basis, what is marriage, and what is your legal reasoning for defining it? Is marriage solely about procreation? So you'll outlaw all contraception among married people? (Gay people don't get abortions, by the way) Is marriage only between two people? You say muslims have more than one wife. So do many mormons. You voted for a mormon for president, didn't you? Are you able to actually define what you think marriage really is, and do so without using religion as a crutch? "Social history" is not a valid definition, because you can't show any relevant social history to support your claim. "This is the way it's always been" is neither true, nor a valid basis for refusing to change.
Friday, November 8, 2013 1:29 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: How am I being in the least bit dishonest. Historically, for the vast majority of the western world, marriage has been 1 man + 1 woman. That's not remotely up for debate. But all that matters is YOUR definition, huh?
Friday, November 8, 2013 1:31 PM
Friday, November 8, 2013 1:33 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: "You can take any random comments, out of context, and try to do the same trick as you're doing here. Pretty pathetic, and intellectually dishonest, on your part." Exactly like taking "same-sex marriage" and equating it to polygamy and incest, which are totally unrelated...why not go for man-on-dog while you're at it? How are they unrelated, Niki ? Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen Resident USA Freedom Fundie " AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
Friday, November 8, 2013 1:41 PM
Quote:Some early Western societies integrated same-sex relationships. The practice of same-sex love in ancient Greece often took the form of pederasty, which was limited in duration and in many cases (but not all) co-existed with marriage. In Hellenic Greece, the pederastic relationships between Greek men (erastes) and youths (eromenos) were similar to marriage in that the age of the youth was similar to the age at which women married (the mid-teens, though in some city states, as young as age seven), and the relationship could only be undertaken with the consent of the father. This consent, just as in the case of a daughter's marriage, was contingent on the suitor's social standing. The relationship consisted of very specific social and religious responsibilities and also had a sexual component. Numerous examples of same sex unions among peers, not age-structured, are found in Ancient Greek writings. Lucian describes a debate in which a proponent of same-sex pederastic relationships describes them as being more stable than heterosexual relationships and goes on to express the hope that he will be buried with his lover after they have passed their lives together.[29] Famous Greek couples in same sex relationships include Harmodius and Aristogiton, Pelopidas and Epaminondas and Alexander and Bogoas. However in none of these same sex unions is the Greek word for "marriage" ever mentioned. The Romans appear to have been the first to perform same sex marriages. Amongst the Romans, there were instances of same-sex marriages being performed, as evidenced by emperor Nero. The first recorded mention of the performance of same-sex marriages occurred during the early Roman Empire. At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions; and in fact, thirteen out of the first fourteen Roman Emperors held to be bisexual or exclusively homosexual.]The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. First with one of his freedman, Pythagoras, to whom Nero took the role of the bride, and later as a groom Nero married a young boy, who resembled one of his concubines,[32] named Sporus in a very public ceremony... with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse A friend gave the "bride" away "as required by law." The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies.[33] Emperor Elagabalus referred to his chariot driver, a blond slave from Caria named Hierocles, as his husband.[34] He also married an athlete named Zoticus in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens. In late medieval France, it is possible the practice of entering a legal contract of "enbrotherment" (affrèrement) provided a vehicle for civil unions between unrelated male adults who pledged to live together sharing ‘un pain, un vin, et une bourse’ – one bread, one wine, and one purse. This legal category may represent one of the earliest forms of sanctioned same-sex unions. A same-sex marriage between the two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain occurred on 16 April 1061. They were married by a priest at a small chapel. The historic documents about the church wedding were found at Monastery of San Salvador de Celanova. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions) Although state-recognized same-sex unions are becoming more accepted, there is a long history of same-sex unions around the world. Various types of same-sex unions have existed, ranging from informal, unsanctioned, and temporary relationships to highly ritualized unions that have included marriage. A same-sex union was known in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] ancient Mesopotamia,[3] in some regions of China, such as Fujian province, and at certain times in ancient European history. These same-sex unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed. [5] Same-sex marital practices and rituals were more recognized in Mesopotamia than in ancient Egypt.[6] In the ancient Assyrian society, there was nothing amiss with homosexual love between men.[7] Some ancient religious Assyrian texts contain prayers for divine blessings on homosexual relationships.[8][9][9] The Almanac of Incantations contained prayers favoring on an equal basis the love of a man for a woman and of a man for man.[10] In the southern Chinese province of Fujian, through the Ming dynasty period, females would bind themselves in contracts to younger females in elaborate ceremonies.[11] Males also entered similar arrangements. This type of arrangement was also similar in ancient European history.[12] An example of egalitarian male domestic partnership from the early Zhou Dynasty period of China is recorded in the story of Pan Zhang & Wang Zhongxian. While the relationship was clearly approved by the wider community, and was compared to heterosexual marriage, it did not involve a religious ceremony binding the couple.[13] ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions)]
Friday, November 8, 2013 2:46 PM
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