Anti-thanksgiving: The story of poverty and injustice needs to be told over and over and over by SIGNYM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Why? you might ask.

Because poverty and injustice is experienced over and over and over, by the vast majority of people. It is a not-so-subtle form of propaganda that our media is dominated by happy, smiley, comfortable people with irrelevant problems and challenging jobs. The few specks here and there... about the poisoned leather-workers of Bangladesh who make cheap fine leather for the European market, or the subsistence fishermen of Africa who've been driven into pirate trawlers or straight-up piracy due to the illegal (pirate) fishing which provide cheap fish for the EU market, or the slave-like conditions of the shrimp-processors in Thailand and the iPhone-assemblers in China... are few and far between, altho they represent the life of billions of people.

Thanksgiving.

Bah.

This. Yes.

"Omigosh we first world people have it just so hard and we should have a day every year to be thankful for how awesome we are for overcoming our challenges and honour the people who helped us and be happy for how great our lives are that we've had to work for!"

No. We were born into privilege. We're soft, weak, pampered little jerks who celebrate this with gluttony and waste. The worst among us here are many times better off than the people best off elsewhere. Other people are suffering and hurting, and we're counting our blessings.

We're terrible and awful, and I spit at our constant need to pat ourselves on the back.

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 1:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey! We agree on something!!

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:35 PM

Hey, Thanksgiving is one of the only holidays I actually support (not because of it's backstory, but then what holiday HAS a spotless record?) but because one night a year I get to sit down and eat without a war with my in-laws and then I get to laugh at them for being idiots and getting up a four in the morning to buy absolute JUNK made in china for 50 cents less that you can get it a month later. The only present anyone is getting this year is movie tickets, so no shopping, and no waste...

What I really need is a day every year to just not care about anything, to eat and make merry for tomorrow we may all perish, and Thanksgiving is my day for that. Humanity sucks, and it will keep on sucking wherther I eat turkey or not. Like I say, ain't much can be done to fix it. Beating yourself up over people who make poor life choices generation after generation? Meh, you go crusade. I'll have some more gravy over here thanks!

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually my enjoyment of the holidays comes from NOT spending time with people, hell the LAST place I wanna be is trying to place nicey-nicey with the scum which is all that remains of my relatives, ALL of the decent ones having passed on to worlds beyond (including the niece I was trying to protect and I dun wanna talk about it) while we all look for somewhere to stick the knife while no one else is looking...

Nope, *MY* satisfaction is being out there in the quiet, cold darkness, secure in the knowledge that the people here can go about their celebrations without worry cause they know I've got their back - THAT gives me warm fuzzies, much as anything does.

Note on that, if you do live in an apartment complex and buy or receive as a gift, a big ticket item, for the love of mercy hold onto the box a while (in case you need to return it or send it back under warranty) and for the love of mercy don't just pitch the box next to the dumpster - creepers see that, wonder where it went and go looking for it.
I break those down and stuff em way into the dumpsters when I find em to circumvent that problem, mind.

-Frem

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 7:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Beating yourself up over people who make poor life choices generation after generation?

WTF??? Because when your choice is to live by scavenging from a trash heap, or dying, then you've made bad choices???

I thought you were smarter than that.

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 8:11 PM

It amazing how far you can walk or swim when needs be. Nothing on this earth would keep me living like that. The people that have kids and let them starve? There comes a day when doing your best just isn't good enough and waiting around for people in another country a couple thousand miles away to feed you is pointless. You rob, you kill, you beg, or you commit seppeku. No such thing as "points for style" in my afterlife...
Get busy livin' or get busy dying...

Unless you've found a way to fix greed and plan on instituting the worlds first totally benevolent communist society (yeah right) it will always be this way.

High minded ways don't FIX A THING. Reality is what's here and now.

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 8:21 PM

I'll accept people having fun, that's why I yelled at Magons about halloween. The world and life is hard enough without people finding SOME way to try to make it bearable.

But I'm bothered by people thinking that Thanksgiving has anything to do with gratitude or humility because of the above. Thanksgiving is about standing on top of the people who have been subjugated or kicked off their own land and then eating a lot. End story.

Maybe if you're lucky one person out of a thousand might think about the less fortunate, but they'll most likely lack actual understanding for what it is to be one of the less fortunate, because by definition if you're celebrating Thanksgiving, you're probably not.

Giving thanks doesn't exactly make the world any better either. Eat the turkey, have fun, no guilt. I just dislike when people try to pass it off like it's anything except what it is.

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I just dislike when people try to pass it off like it's anything except what it is.

You do get the point of RELIGION right?
Make people think "my" ways is better than "their" ways on pretty much everything. I can't really find ANY holiday not rooted in faux piety.

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I just dislike when people try to pass it off like it's anything except what it is.

You do get the point of RELIGION right?
Make people think "my" ways is better than "their" ways on pretty much everything. I can't really find ANY holiday not rooted in faux piety.

Not really, no, except I guess it gives people comfort. Much like Thanksgiving. I just tend to reject phoney sentimentality right off so sometimes stuff like this gets to me.

It's like when oh it's a new year and it's all so full of promise, I'm going to make resolutions I'll break in a week. Whoops, guess it was just an ordinary day after all.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 2:27 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, WISH, the best thing for people to do in dire situations (situations not of their own making) is to kill their children and then commit suicide???

And... you celebrate Thanksgiving, do you? Wow.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 4:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, WISH, the best thing for people to do in dire situations (situations not of their own making) is to kill their children and then commit suicide???

Don't forget, they could also murder other people (their equally poor neighbors and their children) to create that sustainable long-term solution they're otherwise too lazy to achieve.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 9:25 AM

Why not, they do it every day...

You see people that just need a washing up and some etiquette lessons and a regular diet.

I see people who murder and torture anyone that's different like albinos or gays. People that eat children(yep I can find you a buncha those articles) or pop a new one out every five minutes to starve and be raped. People who can figure out how to work a gun but not a book. People who don't know how to do anything but steal funds and dick around.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's also that there are a whole freaking lot of people out there that nothing is ever gonna fix. I can't do anything about that and I'm not certain I want to try...

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Monday, November 4, 2013 10:12 AM

Ehh... Children aren't innocent by any means, but none of these people started out like what you're describing. And if they weren't always like that, if they changed once before, there's a chance, albeit slim, that they can change again in the other direction.

Extreme situations create extreme behaviours. I think that the stabilizing effect of a regular source of food and clean water can't be overstated, and in many of the worst places in the world, all the problems can be traced back to some issue with agriculture or irrigation, and that's the kind of stuff that can actually be solved pretty easily.

If you want to talk about corruption or abuse in an established system though, that's a different animal. Yet even that isn't without options to mediate.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Why not, they do it every day...

You see people that just need a washing up and some etiquette lessons and a regular diet.

I see people who murder and torture anyone that's different like albinos or gays. People that eat children(yep I can find you a buncha those articles) or pop a new one out every five minutes to starve and be raped. People who can figure out how to work a gun but not a book. People who don't know how to do anything but steal funds and dick around.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's also that there are a whole freaking lot of people out there that nothing is ever gonna fix. I can't do anything about that and I'm not certain I want to try...

Considering how many people have moved beyond extreme poverty in the last decades, it's probably not a question of inherent badness in those who are starving. Working a gun is a lot easier to take up if the books aren't really accessible. Not having babies is a gosh darn easy thing to do once you can reasonably expect that half of them will not be dead before they reach age 5. Children per women reduces once child mortality falls, once extreme poverty is overcome and education a viable option, not the other way around. It was the same with us "first world" countries, only most of our recent ancestors benefited from the exploitation of the very people now struggling to achieve that standard of living.

Back when we had third world conditions? We were burning people, too, enslaving others, raping, murdering and popping out babies every which way. What changed for us can change for them, too. And much faster than it did for us. But pretending it's all their own fault because of some inherent lack of desire not to be poor is about the least useful thing.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 3:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA

*hugs AgentR*
You "get it" at a depth most people NEVER manage.

Technically IMHO 'thanksgiving' is more a conquerers celebratory feast after the looting and pillaging, while I accept that and that this is kinda awful, I also support efforts, no matter how small, to make it something *MORE* than that.

Question - any of you given thought to perhaps bringing your leftovers to the homeless, maybe even sitting down with them and sharing ?

-F

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Monday, November 4, 2013 6:25 PM

Quote:
Question - any of you given thought to perhaps bringing your leftovers to the homeless, maybe even sitting down with them and sharing ?

That's a good idea. Although I'm still eating tofu over here, and even though I'm confident in the cooking, I'm not sure meat and diary eaters would be into it.

But on the other hand, I guess food is food, but on the other other hand, I'm wondering if it would be like asking for pie and getting one of those dry moldy soup crackers.

Donating food though, I could research organizations and buy some stuff that isn't vegan.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 7:07 PM

WHOZIT

You forgot cranberry sauce from a can, that's bad too.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 7:18 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Question - any of you given thought to perhaps bringing your leftovers to the homeless, maybe even sitting down with them and sharing ?

That's a good idea. Although I'm still eating tofu over here, and even though I'm confident in the cooking, I'm not sure meat and diary eaters would be into it.

But on the other hand, I guess food is food, but on the other other hand, I'm wondering if it would be like asking for pie and getting one of those dry moldy soup crackers.

Donating food though, I could research organizations and buy some stuff that isn't vegan.

There's a food drive at work, I bought 2 boxes of stuffing, 2 boxes of corn muffin mix and 2 cans of gravy on sale. I paid around $6 and I get to go to heaven. Buy some canned veggies some stuffing mix and a box of mash potato flakes and you'll be fine. If you buy it all on sale you can get a lot for well under $10 to save your soul.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 7:22 PM

I don't think we have a food drive at my work, but this is a good idea. I'm sure there must be organizations around here that do something like this. Maybe there's something up at the University, that wouldn't surprise me.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:04 AM

Most elementary schools run drives in November, as does ours.

BTW Hubbs is 1/4 Blackfoot, and I have an ancestor that had a statue made of him just because he kilt so many injuns...

My life is full of stupid ironies...

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Friday, November 8, 2013 11:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

WISH, I hate to create a zombie thread, but... I can read your words, but I don't "get" the meaning. What you said, in total, was....

Quote:
Hey, Thanksgiving is one of the only holidays I actually support (not because of it's backstory, but then what holiday HAS a spotless record?) but because one night a year I get to sit down and eat without a war with my in-laws and then I get to laugh at them for being idiots and getting up a four in the morning to buy absolute JUNK made in china for 50 cents less that you can get it a month later. The only present anyone is getting this year is movie tickets, so no shopping, and no waste...

What I really need is a day every year to just not care about anything, to eat and make merry for tomorrow we may all perish, and Thanksgiving is my day for that. Humanity sucks, and it will keep on sucking wherther I eat turkey or not. Like I say, ain't much can be done to fix it. Beating yourself up over people who make poor life choices generation after generation? Meh, you go crusade. I'll have some more gravy over here thanks!

It[s] amazing how far you can walk or swim when needs be. Nothing on this earth would keep me living like that. The people that have kids and let them starve? There comes a day when doing your best just isn't good enough and waiting around for people in another country a couple thousand miles away to feed you is pointless. You rob, you kill, you beg, or you commit seppeku. No such thing as "points for style" in my afterlife... Get busy livin' or get busy dying...

Unless you've found a way to fix greed and plan on instituting the worlds first totally benevolent communist society (yeah right) it will always be this way.

High minded ways don't FIX A THING. Reality is what's here and now. Why not, they do it every day... [kill their children]

You see people that just need a washing up and some etiquette lessons and a regular diet.

I see people who murder and torture anyone that's different like albinos or gays. People that eat children(yep I can find you a buncha those articles) or pop a new one out every five minutes to starve and be raped. People who can figure out how to work a gun but not a book. People who don't know how to do anything but steal funds and dick around. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's also that there are a whole freaking lot of people out there that nothing is ever gonna fix. I can't do anything about that and I'm not certain I want to try...

So, in your humble opinion, a woman who is born into poverty in a nation where she has no rights, is given over in marriage at the age of 14... or 8... has no access to birth control or education, who "pops out" kids whether she wants to or not, and whose only recourse is to either scratch the dirt to try to grow food or forage on a dump.... has made "poor life choices"?

When did she GET any choices? And what are you suggesting she DO about her situation?

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Friday, November 8, 2013 3:01 PM

You are obviously one of those people who likes to have hope and see the best in people, which is up to you. I believe hope is just a distraction. Actually it's kind of why I picked my name here. It reminds me that wishing for things is POINTLESS and CHILDLIKE. It accomplishes nothing.
Would I snap my fingers and make everybody happy and healthy? Sure.
But I can't tell who is alright and who isn't- here there or anywhere...
So, yeah it's up to them at the end of the day to change or not. Do something or do nothing doesn't take much to come up with- education or no.
Just about 3/4 of this planet has had to fight for change at some point, and so will they.

I choose to keep what comfort I have, because I believe this planet is doomed. There is nothing I can do to stop the tidal wave of stupid out there and whether or not you believe it or not, neither can YOU. But hey, keep trying if it makes you feel better about yourself, by all means.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 3:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I guess it's easy to say "do something", but it sounds like you're saying that victims... and there ARE real victims in this world... should kill themselves and their children to make life more convenient for the victimizers? So that people don't have to think about them, and can keep on victimizing?

And what about you? Are YOU in such a comfortable situation that YOU can say you've made "good life choices", both for your future and that of your child? You say "do something", but YOU insist on doing nothing. Not trying to be personal, but it seems to me that the advice that you're giving victims, and the actions that you propose they take, apply to you and your child as well. So all of that anger, bitterness and callousness would just bounce back. That's why I don't understand you, although I read your words quite well.

So, how do you see yourself? As a victim, or as a victimizer?

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Friday, November 8, 2013 9:06 PM

People that hurt others, will always hurt others, no matter who is or is not there. People are responsible for taking care of themselves ultimately, is what I am saying, duh.

I'm not going to justify my life to anyone, least of all nutters on the interwebz. I take care of me and mine and that in no way makes me anything horrible. I have done what I needed to do for us, and I haven't sold out or hurt anyone to do it, AND I HAVEN'T ASKED FOR OR ACCEPTED HELP IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

And yeah, there will come a day where I will no longer be able to care for myself, and I have made plans to not be a burden when it comes to that too.
I will be neither option.

What is your obsession with victims, anyways? Delusions of heroism??

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Friday, November 8, 2013 9:44 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

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People that hurt others, will always hurt others, no matter who is or is not there.

Disagree. People change their behavior due to circumstance. Behaviors can be changed by upbringing.

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People are responsible for taking care of themselves ultimately, is what I am saying, duh.

Disagree there, too. Are babies responsible for taking care of themselves? Children? The elderly? The injured and sick? The whole reason... the ONLY reason why we've survived as a species is because we took care of each other, because as individuals we are puny, weak, and defenseless, and with a ridiculously low birthrate for such underpowered specimens.

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I take care of me and mine and that in no way makes me anything horrible.

It depends on what you've done to "take care of me and mine". If you killed needlessly to do it, then- yes, you would be horrible.

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I have done what I needed to do for us, and I haven't sold out or hurt anyone to do it

Ok, if you say so.

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AND I HAVEN'T ASKED FOR OR ACCEPTED HELP IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

I guess my first question would be: Why not? What is so horrible about asking for help? As far as I know, the only person who seems to have the big problem with it is you (and rappy, zit, and jongsstraw; but they're assholes so who the frak cares what they think?)

Quote:
And yeah, there will come a day where I will no longer be able to care for myself, and I have made plans to not be a burden when it comes to that too.

I guess you can't imagine that people might want you there just because they love you. Maybe your daughter would want her mother to hang around for a bit more? My mom was pretty disabled in her last 10 years, so was my dad and MIL, and yet I would have wanted them to have lived for at least a few more years.

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I will be neither option. What is your obsession with victims, anyways? Delusions of heroism??

Actually, I kinda think you were the one who brought it up, I just put a convenient name to it.

I could armchair-psychologize, but I'm left wondering which parent put it in your head that you HAD to be "independent"?

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:15 PM

Ok, most of these "itemized"

responses make no sense.
Yes of course I'm saying babies should take care of themselves *roll eyes.

The only thing I will respond to is the last. Pay attention I will only say it once more.

MY....PEOPLE...DON'T...MAKE...IT....TO...60.

Only ONE in the last five generations has.

Hard to ask people for help WHEN THEY ARE DEAD!!!

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 12:00 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Ok, most of these "itemized" responses make no sense.

WISH, I have no idea why they make no sense. I'm only responding to what you wrote, and since you made your comments VERY global... ie all of the human species, I answered in-kind. I think your immediate concerns form your view of the entire world. You're so concerned with disability causing you to become "dependent" that you're overlaying that fear on the entire world and everyone in it: babies, mothers, grandparents, and expressing it with unrealistic generality. You're failing to see that the rest of humanity is NOT YOU. Other people don't have your outlook. Try to remember that when you're castigating all of humanity, m'kay?

As a general observation, and not sure if this is helpful at all, you're quite obviously under a tremendous amount of stress. It seems to me that the problems you're wrestling with have loomed larger and larger and larger until they fill the entire picture. Unfortunately, in that state it's impossible to think of options.

YOU NEED HELP. You have at least three problems that I can see that need to be ameliorated: (1) You're in constant, significant pain (2) You're becoming progressively disabled, which you fear (3) You feel stamped with an expiry date. As far as I can tell, you trace this all back to a genetic defect (one? more?). You can't change your genes, so while I would keep an eye on gene therapy, I wouldn't hold out any hope. OTOH, you can address the day-to-day problems. Also, it's sometimes possible to change gene expression.

Each one of these issues NEEDS some practical ameliorations. I don't know if it's medical help for pain and treatment, or help with household work, or maybe just a friendly person to talk to, or a combination of all that and more, but you are yoked into an impossible situation and right now your whole raison d'etre, the purpose of your entire existence, has become to pull that yoke. Do you have ANYone nearby you can call on? A friend, a neighbor, a doctor, paid help?

AFA your family's various medical conditions, it would be a cursed family tree indeed if ALL members of your family on both sides died from some inheritable disease. (Well, we all inherited "life" which does lead to "death", but some of us have more problems than others.)

About this familial expiry date, I don't think it's fair to look back past 1940 for a family history. MOST people died early back then, of SOMETHING. Sometimes it was influenza, sometimes it was vitamin D deficiency, sometimes it was an accident or infected tooth, and sometimes it was cancer (A lot of ppl were exposed to aflatoxin from improper food drying and wound up with liver cancer). The cause of death was often uncertain. I wouldn't be TOO worried about your distant-past family history, but focus on the last two generations when the standard of medical care and disgnosis was more similar to today.

Also, when you talk about your people, are you talking your mother's side only? (ie traced on the maternal side of each generation)? That would be a mitochondrial disorder. Or are you seriously talking about BOTH side of the family? It would be a cursed family tree indeed if both maternal and paternal sides of the family brought their own genetic diseases to the table. Do you have the appropriate details to trace a definitive genetic disorder?

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 12:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"We're terrible and awful, and I spit at our constant need to pat ourselves on the back."

Just to weigh in on the original topic - as China rises and the US sinks, we'll increasingly find ourselves out of our self-congratulatory mode.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:09 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
as China rises and the US sinks, we'll increasingly find ourselves out of our self-congratulatory mode.

And be worrying and stressing.

And when we get bent out of shape looking at China and fretting about things, it will be for all the wrong reasons. Therefore we will never solve our problems, because instead of focusing on equity and security and finding a way forward together, we'll be focusing on stupid things like international dominance.

We could live 100% comfortably within our own borders, if we wanted to. The only reason we're on this fucking treadmill is because of international "competition", which only benefits the top 0.1%.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

YOU NEED HELP.

Also, when you talk about your people, are you talking your mother's side only?

What I'm saying is even with all my damn problems, I DON'T NEED HELP. In the last five years we've managed to side, roof, paint, carpet, new windows, cut down a half dozen trees, and build a bathroom from SCRATCH.

I've herniated disks, sprained things I didn't know I had, stepped on a nail, had a fence and a small tree land on my foot, pneumonia twice, and a half dozen infections, my dad having cancer and dying, lived through a damn tornado, a half blind grandma, had to run a house and deal with my crazy asperger husband and anxiety ridden child and I'M STILL HERE!!!

Unless you are a kid or paralyzed or just plain crazy, you should GET OFF YER ASS AND GET 'R DONE. Entitlement Syndrome is a real thing. You take away safety nets and excuses and it's AMAZING how many people didn't need any help to begin with. Like the Dread Pirate Roberts says "Life IS pain, highness." If I can do what I've done, so can nearly everyone else....

As far as to the genetics thing, Dad, his parents, three of his great granparents, and most of his cousins had cancer, and were dead within six months. His great great Gran had eleven children and only one made it and THEN died in the war. My mother's side isn't much better. She has cancer, as does her brother and niece so it's 50/50 there.

My father was part of a genetic study at Vanderbilt and they said he had the second worst family history they'd come across. They gave my brother and I a 90% probability, and now mom has cancer it's looking pretty damn certain. But when you grow up watching people die, it's not like I needed anyone to tell me that already...

And yeah, watching the strongest most capable guy I've ever known degrade into a drooling convulsing unable to wipe his own ass mess scares the hell out of me. I'm NOT going like that. PERIOD.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 11:23 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What I'm saying is even with all my damn problems, I DON'T NEED HELP... you should GET OFF YER ASS AND GET 'R DONE.

WISH, I didn't mean that you need help to "get'r done". I mean that you need help so that you have some time to spend with your family and relax and have fun. You're rich enough, in a wealthy enough nation, that you have choices about how to spend your time.

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You take away safety nets and excuses and it's AMAZING how many people didn't need any help to begin with.

While you're an admirable person in many ways, you assume that everyone has your social and personal resources- except they're just waiting on their asses for help. They're not. A lot of people don't have "safety nets" in their societies, they have trawling nets: businesses and governments designed to scoop up any wriggling victim.

You may not think so, but you're reasonably wealthy BECAUSE our military has turned many parts of the world into hellholes. So while YOU may not have killed people directly to "take care of you and yours", you paid someone to do it for you. I did too. The difference is, I'm aware of it and you're not. You think you reached your station in life due soley to your own efforts. You didn't. I think you could use some of your time to learn more about the world, and what you owe other people.

AFA your family history, a cancer that runs its course in six months is pretty rare- pancreatic or liver cancer, usually. Yes, it's a very bad family history. If it's the same kind of cancer with the same target organ over and over, make sure that you go in for frequent checkups. Again, if it's the same organ, can you have it preventively removed?

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Monday, November 11, 2013 3:21 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Wish, despite your issues you strike me as a generally decent person, and I am juuuust drunk enough at the moment to speak when I'd usually hold my tongue...

Okay yes, you don't *need* help, but take it when it is given, even if it grates.

I had a really, really, really hard time after the accident accepting even the tiniest bit of aid from anyone, hell I would snarl at people who held doors open for me cause I saw it as an act of contempt and pity, when in all truth it was simply them wanting to be decent for decencies sake, and maybe to tell themselves in their own mind they weren't so bad - and yanno there's nothing wrong with that, everyone has their own issues, their own problems, some of us more than others, and believe me, I *KNOW* what it is like to be curled up on the floor all alone and feeling abandoned, screaming in pain emotional and physical.

If you didn't look too closely when I am all cyborged and geared up, you might not even notice (yet, cause I know what the damn price is GONNA be, and I pay it every day when I pull that stuff off... right now I am bleeding on the wax paper I have protecting the carpet) that I have my own physical issues, and if I held the door for a struggling person who then snarled at me I would simply smile and take it, cause I KNOW, yanno ?

Seriously, you've no need to prove how brave, how strong you are to me, or anyone like me, and a lot of people who might offer to help you, do so cause their own issues, which might not be anywhere as bad as yours true.. allow them to feel sympathetic, to remember the times there was no one there to help them, and this encourages them to do their part to MAKE a "should" into an "is", if you understand my meaning.

And as for aid from collective sources, Government or what have you, yanno, I'd fucking pay even MORE taxes gleefully if that went into helping folks like you instead of buying bombs and bullets, take my goddamn money with my blessing, my encouragement, that is WHY I GAVE IT TO THEM, despite not liking Governments very much - for me it's NOT an act of pity, it's NOT contempt and a pretense to tell myself I am a better person than I am, it is nothing more, and yet nothing LESS, then my hand held out to yours, to tell you...
YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

I put it there for YOU, Wish, for you and people like you.
Take it, with my blessings, any "help" you can reach.

-Frem

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Monday, November 11, 2013 3:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Unless you are a kid or paralyzed or just plain crazy, you should GET OFF YER ASS AND GET 'R DONE. Entitlement Syndrome is a real thing. You take away safety nets and excuses and it's AMAZING how many people didn't need any help to begin with. Like the Dread Pirate Roberts says "Life IS pain, highness." If I can do what I've done, so can nearly everyone else....

Gah.

I hate to post this after Frem's lovely words, but...

Do you even ever acknowledge the many things you are still a beneficiary of, as compared to the world's truly poor and starving you so easily brushed off as lazy?

How about access to education, clean water and safety standards, the opportunity of properly paid employment, the opportunity to own property, reasonable access to justice before the law, reasonable safety from theft and abuse of said property, and, say, a stable government not currently afflicted with (civil) war on your turf?

Yeah, doing what you do "on your own" is great and all, but don't even pretend you've overcome the kind of obstacles that real poverty and real injustice and real instability present to almost a billion people on this planet. The ones with no safety net who really COULD use one.

I'm just not finding your personal achievements (admirable though they may be) to be a convincing justification for your callous words. Your personal path (and all the privileges of nationality that made it possible) is not a blue-print solution for the poverty and injustice that this original post called on us to consider.

Honestly, I'm still astounded at your attitude.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 10:28 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thanks.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You may not think so, but you're reasonably wealthy BECAUSE our military has turned many parts of the world into hellholes. So while YOU may not have killed people directly to "take care of you and yours", you paid someone to do it for you. I did too. The difference is, I'm aware of it and you're not. You think you reached your station in life due soley to your own efforts. You didn't. I think you could use some of your time to learn more about the world, and what you owe other people.

*snort Geez, is that the dumbest thing I've ever seen written.

I was born here, in which I had no choice in, nor did I participate or support any stupid ass war since I've been born. I don't owe "the world" a goddamn thing... Were I healthy, I would gladly denounce all "governments" as inhumane and go far far away from other people.

Go sell your kumbaya somewhere else, because I know it's just a crap illusion.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... nor did I participate or support any stupid ass war since I've been born ..."

But you benefitted.

So, personally, apparently I don't display pain very much. No one that I work with, and no one in my family, seems to notice I'm in constant pain. It seems to come as a surprise when I mention it, and then fade from attention fairly quickly. And since I've been in one kind of pain or another from a young age (though I have to say, it definitely escalated with advancing years), my habit has been to keep going until I physically can't. So, I agreed with Frem about how my world has at times narrowed down to the. next. step.

It's also narrowed down to the next breath. I remember laying in bed and being so tired from struggling to get the next breath, and then the next, and then the next - I just wanted to be able to stop, and rest. Needing to breathe but being so exhausted from trying. That went on for a month.

My life has narrowed down to the next heartbeat, and the next, and the next, when, for reasons I'm not sure about, my heart was stumbling for a few weeks. Culminating in a 911 ride to the nearest ER after I collapsed at work.

So, I think I deserve some credit for keeping on keeping on, don't you? It's not like it comes free for me. Though, I admit I would, at this point, LIKE to stop, or at least slow down, but that's not in the cards. So I drive myself forward. Every day.

Is that what it's like for you?

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
*snort Geez, is that the dumbest thing I've ever seen written.

I was born here, in which I had no choice in, nor did I participate or support any stupid ass war since I've been born. I don't owe "the world" a goddamn thing... Were I healthy, I would gladly denounce all "governments" as inhumane and go far far away from other people.

Go sell your kumbaya somewhere else, because I know it's just a crap illusion.

You don't choose privilege. Obviously. But that's not the point. You still benefit, and denying that you do is just dishonest.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:44 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You still benefit, and denying that you do is just dishonest.

And then patting oneself on the back for being so superior is also dishonest.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:09 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You may not think so, but you're reasonably wealthy BECAUSE our military has turned many parts of the world into hellholes. So while YOU may not have killed people directly to "take care of you and yours", you paid someone to do it for you. I did too. The difference is, I'm aware of it and you're not. You think you reached your station in life due soley to your own efforts. You didn't. I think you could use some of your time to learn more about the world, and what you owe other people.

*snort Geez, is that the dumbest thing I've ever seen written.

I was born here, in which I had no choice in, nor did I participate or support any stupid ass war since I've been born. I don't owe "the world" a goddamn thing... Were I healthy, I would gladly denounce all "governments" as inhumane and go far far away from other people.

Go sell your kumbaya somewhere else, because I know it's just a crap illusion.

LOL! Way to smack her down! Sniggy's just a hopeless idiot.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:31 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I see you're not worried about looking stupid and crazy.

As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:38 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I see you're not worried about looking stupid and crazy

Not to a cluelesss blithering idiot like you.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

So, personally, apparently I don't display pain very much. No one that I work with, and no one in my family, seems to notice I'm in constant pain. It seems to come as a surprise when I mention it, and then fade from attention fairly quickly.

Is that what it's like for you?

THIS is what I mean. I can't do anything meaningful for anyone. There is a fair lot of us just trying to get through the DAY. The world and everyone in it is out of my control entirely. I have accepted my limitations. I can say "I'm sorry Kiki, I know what you mean, and I know how the people we know don't WANT to know what hurts or how they can help because it causes them mental anguish as well just knowing there is nothing they can do"
but what does that really change?? This day will come and go and the words will be forgotten and the pain will continue.

The world cannot help me and I cannot help it.

One of the many things I've learned is that "help" often isn't what you think it is anyway. If when I called my uncle (who is in construction) after the tornado and asked him what I should do and he had helped in any way shape or form I wouldn't have learned what to do and how to do it myself. I once provided child care services for a family member for free and all it did was prolong their oblivity of their debt problem making it far worse when they did do something, and almost got my daughter molested too. We once filed for unemployment and were denied because they were "restructuring" the system, which was terrible because we were living off credit cards and eating ramen noodles to get by and took four years to pay that off, but made me ultimately realize we are responsible for ourselves and that no one was going to save us, and now keep a larger reserve for just such times. I've donated money in the past, and then found out it had been embezzled or misused. I could go on all day here....

Maybe if more people were more responsible for themselves lots of unexpected things would be better too... It's counterintuitive, I know, but sometimes the better thing IS doing nothing. If you do things for other people they often will not learn to do for themselves.

By the way Kiki, what is your specific medical problem?

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Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:38 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
LOL! Way to smack her down! Sniggy's just a hopeless idiot.

Except there were several answers to that post. Did you stop reading and start drinking at that point?

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Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
LOL! Way to smack her down! Sniggy's just a hopeless idiot.
Except there were several answers to that post. Did you stop reading and start drinking at that point?

It seems Wishimay stopped reading certain responses, too, or at least she is not reacting to them. Which is disappointing. But not particularly surprising.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:40 PM