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Worldwide levels of the greenhouse gas that plays the biggest role in global warming have reached their highest level in almost 2 million years—an amount never before encountered by humans, U.S. scientists said Friday.

Carbon dioxide was measured at 400 parts per million Thursday at the oldest monitoring station in Hawaii, which sets the global benchmark.

The number 400 has been anticipated by climate scientists and environmental activists for years as a notable indicator, in part because it's a round number.

"What we see today is 100 percent due to human activity," said Pieter Tans, a senior scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The burning of fossil fuels, such as coal for electricity and oil for gasoline, has caused the overwhelming bulk of the man-made increase in carbon in the air, scientists say.

At the end of the Ice Age, it took 7,000 years for carbon dioxide levels to rise by 80 parts per million, Tans said. Because of the burning of fossil fuels, carbon dioxide levels have gone up by the same amount in just 55 years.

The speed of the change is the big worry, said Pennsylvania State University climate scientist Michael Mann. If carbon dioxide levels go up 100 parts per million over thousands or millions of years, plants and animals can adapt. But that can't be done at the speed it is now happening.

The last time the worldwide carbon level was probably this high was about 2 million years ago, Tans said. That was during the Pleistocene Era.

"It was much warmer than it is today," Tans said. "There were forests in Greenland. Sea level was higher, between 10 and 20 meters (33 to 66 feet)."

Other scientists say it may have been 10 million years since Earth last encountered this level of carbon dioxide. The first modern humans only appeared in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

When measurements were first taken in 1958, carbon dioxide was measured at 315 parts per million. Levels are now growing about 2 parts per million per year. That's 100 times faster than at the end of the Ice Age.

Before the Industrial Revolution, carbon dioxide levels were around 280 ppm, and they were closer to 200 during the Ice Age, which is when sea levels shrank and polar places went from green to icy.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Greenhouse gas level highest in two million years, NOAA reports (Update 2)

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Worldwide levels of the greenhouse gas that plays the biggest role in global warming have reached their highest level in almost 2 million years—an amount never before encountered by humans, U.S. scientists said Friday.

Carbon dioxide was measured at 400 parts per million Thursday at the oldest monitoring station in Hawaii, which sets the global benchmark.

The number 400 has been anticipated by climate scientists and environmental activists for years as a notable indicator, in part because it's a round number.

"What we see today is 100 percent due to human activity," said Pieter Tans, a senior scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The burning of fossil fuels, such as coal for electricity and oil for gasoline, has caused the overwhelming bulk of the man-made increase in carbon in the air, scientists say.

At the end of the Ice Age, it took 7,000 years for carbon dioxide levels to rise by 80 parts per million, Tans said. Because of the burning of fossil fuels, carbon dioxide levels have gone up by the same amount in just 55 years.

The speed of the change is the big worry, said Pennsylvania State University climate scientist Michael Mann. If carbon dioxide levels go up 100 parts per million over thousands or millions of years, plants and animals can adapt. But that can't be done at the speed it is now happening.

The last time the worldwide carbon level was probably this high was about 2 million years ago, Tans said. That was during the Pleistocene Era.

"It was much warmer than it is today," Tans said. "There were forests in Greenland. Sea level was higher, between 10 and 20 meters (33 to 66 feet)."

Other scientists say it may have been 10 million years since Earth last encountered this level of carbon dioxide. The first modern humans only appeared in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

When measurements were first taken in 1958, carbon dioxide was measured at 315 parts per million. Levels are now growing about 2 parts per million per year. That's 100 times faster than at the end of the Ice Age.

Before the Industrial Revolution, carbon dioxide levels were around 280 ppm, and they were closer to 200 during the Ice Age, which is when sea levels shrank and polar places went from green to icy.

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The last storm to sweep the Philippines would have been a Category 6, is such a rating existed. But our weather forecasters and modelers apparently can't extend their imagination to encompass something the human species has NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

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The last time the worldwide carbon level was probably this high was about 2 million years ago, Tans said. That was during the Pleistocene Era.

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99.99 % ( and more, I'm sure ) of the planet's history has occurred before humans showed up.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Screw it. Let's move to Mars and REALLY show the universe how we can warm up a planet.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Carbon dioxide was measured at 400 parts per million Thursday at the oldest monitoring station in Hawaii, which sets the global benchmark.

The number 400 has been anticipated by climate scientists and environmental activists for years as a notable indicator, in part because it's a round number.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Carbon dioxide was measured at 400 parts per million Thursday at the oldest monitoring station in Hawaii, which sets the global benchmark.

The number 400 has been anticipated by climate scientists and environmental activists for years as a notable indicator, in part because it's a round number.

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Since the U.S. carbon emissions have been pretty flat for the last few years, while China's have been going up 9 or 10 percent a year, guess we can thank the Chinese for superstorm Sandy and the typhoon that hit the Phillipines. Too bad they're not willing to provide more relief for the storms they have caused.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC

Yeah, because China is obviously not being frugal.

CO2 emissions (metric tons per capita) 2010

China 6.2
United States 17.6

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The best analogy I can think of.... We're all in a big boat, and some of us are chopping holes in the hull. The compartment where people have been most industrious on the hole-chopping activity is... ours. Not only do have we been chopping holes longer than anyone else, not only do we have the biggest hole, but per person we're twice as good as any other group at chopping that hole!

Some of us are running around, waving our arms and trying to tell other people that the boat is sinking and that we should be bailing the boat. And SOME of us look over the other compartments and complain that those others are chopping holes too, and theyaren't bailing fast enough.

Yep, like I said: doomed.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Add up cumulative tonnes of CO2 emitted in history, by country, and then try blaming China. The US (and Europe) has been heavily contributing to that 400 parts per million for some time...

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It seems to me that if you want to do something constructive, you'd be better off focusing your energies on preparing for climate change where you live, rather than trying to stop it - which is pretty much out of your control.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OK, I finally figured out why we're talking at cross-purposes.

You seem to think that "we" can "prepare" for climate change by setting aside 72 hours worth of food and water, and some candles. Maybe even grow a "victory garden".

That's not going to hack it.

When the next superstorm washes over Florida, the Carolinas, NYC, Texas, or DC with a 20-foot wall of water, candles aren't going to be enough. When a mega-drought puts pressure on the world food supply, and your little corner of the world is shriveled, your inconsequential preparations aren't going to go very far. You live next to a city? Starving people will do anything to survive.

We are in the realm of "NEVER BEFORE SEEN BY THE HUMAN SPECIES". What do you suppose that means??? Use imagination!

You lack a full appreciation of the disasters that await us. EVEN IF we were to somehow collectively pull our heads out of our asses and do whatever it takes not to warm the world by 2 deg C, the effects would still be difficult. Fully preparing for what is to come... not the make-believe "stocking up the fortress" kind of preparations YOU think are sufficient for climate change, but building massive seawalls or moving entire cities inland... would mean the end of society as YOU know it.

And NOT preparing for climate change? That is also the end of society as you know it, just a different kind of ending. You won't be able to hang on to that comfortable libertarian fortress mentality and pretend it is sufficient for the circumstances.

Change is coming, either way. We either change on purpose, or we will be changed by nature.

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while this may be a disaster, it's going to be a slow one. Stuff is not going to happen worldwide overnight.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Geezer, the kind of preparations required are far beyond our profit-obsessed economy, and far beyond the kind of community-based libertarian approach that you envision. That's why I said that IF we were to effectively prepare for climate shift, it would mean the end of society as you know it. The end of society as YOU know it... not the "end of society".

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while this may be a disaster, it's going to be a slow one. Stuff is not going to happen worldwide overnight.

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It doesn't need to happen "worldwide" in order to overwhelm resources. And of course it happens overnight. Haiyan did. Superstorm Sandy did.

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Then again, the evil capitalists in the U.S. managed massive mobilization during WWII when a threat was imminent.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're mis-remembering history. SOME evil capitalists lent money to the Nazis and helped design and build big ovens. SOME evil capitalists allowed their industries to be taken over by the government... converted from making peacetime goods like cars, to wartime goods like tanks and planes.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I believe the description was of the USA.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're mis-remembering history. SOME evil capitalists lent money to the Nazis and helped design and build big ovens.

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As far as which approach wouldn't have gotten us here in the first place, unless your version of libertarianism specifically addresses economic equality and the environment (and it doesn't) we would have wound up in exactly the same place as we are now.

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But it hardly matters, because neither your version nor my version ever existed, and here we are. What do we do NEXT?

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I'd like to see a cite for that, please.

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So you're looking forward to a command economy to save us? Has that worked well before?

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Especially for individuals as opposed to societies?

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Then again, the evil capitalists in the U.S. managed massive mobilization during WWII when a threat was imminent.

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As for Libertarians, folks with a strong sense that it's wrong to hurt other folks or their stuff might not have gotten us into this situation in the first place.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Can you own the air? The oceans? Rivers? Unless a property is owned, it has no protection under your system.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GEEZER, M52NICK

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I'd like to see a cite for that, please.

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You DO know that every time you ask for cites, I've got them, right?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Not sure how you see a philosophy that says you shouldn't damage other peoples (sic) property not addressing the environment."

Can you own the air? The oceans? Rivers? Unless a property is owned, it has no protection under your system.

BTW, I'm counting on you not replying to me.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, he is, isn't Rap? I see you are too.

You two should really go off and play with yourselves somewhere and let people who actually want to deal with reality discuss the vital issues of the day. You have absolutely zip to contribute, and do it regularly.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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You DO know that every time you ask for cites, I've got them, right? -signy
Well, sort'a.-geezer

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Paris branches of American banks did business with the Nazis after France fell to Germany. Understanding how little the Nazis liked taking "no" for an answer, I can see how the bank's managers might do business, considering that their government was doing so and encouraging everyone to go along, and how easily refusal might get one labeled part of the Resistance and sent to the wall.-GEEZER

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Oh, my. And George Bush’s grandfather worked for banks that dealt with Germans starting in the 1930s. Damn him for not having a time machine so he could know how that would turn out. -GEEZER

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And the Germans used punch card technology developed by IBM to identify Jews? And that makes IBM complicit in the Holocaust? Sort'a like Apple's complicit in terrorism when the terrirists use iPhones?

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In September 1939, Germany invades Poland. It's a bloody, heinous invasion.... On September 13, 1939, The New York Times reports on Page 1 that 3 million Jews are going to be "immediately removed" from Poland, and they appear to be candidates for "physical extermination." On September 9, the German managers of IBM Berlin send a letter to [American Chairman] Thomas Watson with copy to staff in Geneva via phone that, due to the "situation," they need high-speed alphabetizing equipment. IBM wanted no paper trail, so an oral agreement was made, passed from New York to Geneva to Berlin, and those alphabetizers were approved by Watson, personally, before the end of the month.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I see Jongssie is here, "adding" to the conversation by calling everyone a cunt.

Isn't it a little early in the AM to start drinking, Jongssie? How're those mimosas going down?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Jong has gone off the deep end, big time. This is even worse than his last spam attack on the forum. The man is in serious need of help. He should get some under the ACA, they cover mental difficulties.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?

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