REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Venture Capitalist Says "War" on the Rich Is Like Nazi Germany's War on the Jews

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 14:28
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VIEWED: 4702
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Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, Kiki, obviously you're not the only one thinking along the lines of violent revolution...

Quote:

In a letter to the Wall Street Journal, venture capitalist Tom Perkins makes the worst historical analogy you will read for a long, long time. In a letter to The Wall Street Journal, he suggests that progressives protesting income inequality are today's equivalent of Nazi's persecuting Jews.

"I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich," Perkins wrote in the letter to the editor.

He continued that he perceives "a rising tide of hatred of the successful one percent....This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent "progressive" radicalism unthinkable now?" ( http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304549504579316913
982034286
)

This is the reductio ad absurdum of a rich-guy's persecution complex. The Jews were a minority. The rich are a minority. Therefore, criticizing the rich is akin to committing genocide against the Jews. QED. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/venture-capitalist
-says-war-on-the-rich-is-like-nazi-germanys-war-on-the-jews/283347
/


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:56 AM

ELVISCHRIST





It's exactly like the Holocaust. Haven't you seen the concentration camps? They've rounded up all the rich and put them in camps, used them as slave labor, gassed them, put them in the ovens, herded them into cattle cars, had them shot and stacked up like cord wood. I can't believe you missed all that. It was all over the news!

:D

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh yeah, cause we can all see how much those poor rich have been suffering lately. [/sarcasm]

Far as I'm concerned, if they were suddenly reduced to having a measly $10 million each, that would be fair.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:



It's exactly like the Holocaust. Haven't you seen the concentration camps? They've rounded up all the rich and put them in camps, used them as slave labor, gassed them, put them in the ovens, herded them into cattle cars, had them shot and stacked up like cord wood. I can't believe you missed all that. It was all over the news!

:D



Persecution of the Jews didn't START with the camps. It started, as is being so properly brought up, with casting the Jews as the root for all the problems Germany was facing in the post WW1 period.

And this is very much like we're seeing now. The " rich " aren't by any means the cause of all this, but if the politicians and their minions can focus attention away from them and onto others... here we go again.

Quote:

In a letter to the Wall Street Journal, venture capitalist Tom Perkins makes the worst historical analogy you will read for a long, long time.


This is written by a person who either does not KNOW history, or is banking on the fact that his readers don't.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Tom Perkins' melodramatic letter was written because the highest 2013 capital gain tax increased from 15% to 20% for payers with high incomes:

"Generally, for most taxpayers, net capital gain is taxed at rates no higher than 15%. Some or all net capital gain may be taxed at 0% if you are in the 10% or 15% ordinary income tax brackets. However, beginning in 2013, a new 20% rate on net capital gain applies to the extent that a taxpayer’s taxable income exceeds the thresholds set for the new 39.6% ordinary tax rate ($400,000 for single; $450,000 for married filing jointly or qualifying widow(er); $425,000 for head of household, and $225,000 for married filing separately)." - www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html

Number 10 on the Tea Party's 15 Non-negotiable Core Beliefs is "Reducing personal income taxes is a must." That explains everything you need to know about Tom Perkins' letter. www.teaparty.org/about-us/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!





Barry doesn't care about revenues, he cares about " fairness ". Fairness, as HE sees it.

What we have here folks, is soft core tyranny. Even faced with the facts that raising cap gains taxes will REDUCE the revenue coming into the federal govt, Barry STILL doesn't care. Because, as he said, there comes a point when HE thinks you've made enough money.

It's not for you to decide, Barry. You're not the boss of us.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The same thing that explains Perkins' letter also explains rappy's response. He is one of those $400K+ individuals whose taxes have gone up, and because of that he's whining about tyranny. So please ....


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The same thing that explains Perkins' letter also explains rappy's response. He is one of those $400K+ individuals whose taxes have gone up, and because of that he's whining about tyranny. So please ....




No idea about Perkins' income level, but that ain't me. But that still doesn't keep me from speaking out over the injustices of an over reaching govt.

Wrong is wrong, no matter how much money ya make.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, and rappy constantly denies things he quite clearly said.




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, and rappy constantly denies things he quite clearly said.






What is it that you think I've said which I'm now denying ?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, you deny pretty much everything you've ever said, like that bit about being stuck in an elevator with 14-year-old girls, or calling all women who want contraception covered by insurance "whores". That's why you hate being quoted. But, specifically...
Quote:

What has he done that has impacted you specifically in a negative way?- G
Raised my taxes- rappy


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56459

There is only one group of people for whom Obama has raised taxes, and that's you.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I hate being taken out of context, not being quoted. YOU seem to have an issue with understanding the difference.

And Obama has raised taxes on ALL OF US, including you. So spare me the " only the 1% " crap. It's 100%.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I provided a link for full context. Your reply consists of yet more denial, and a baseless claim.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I provided a link for full context. Your reply consists of yet more denial, and a baseless claim.




Bullshit. You're taking my words out of context, twisting my meaning, and perpetuating a false narrative.

And it's not a baseless claim, it's the truth.

Just like 1kiki, you can't admit when you're wrong. Crassic.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And it's not a baseless claim, it's the truth.

All you have to do to prove your point is demonstrate how
Quote:

Obama has raised taxes on ALL OF US, including you
and not just on $400K+ individuals (or $450K+ couples). It's simple, really. Go ahead. I'll wait. Just don't expect any more responses from me until you've proved your claim.
But you'll have to disprove your other claims, that 50% don't pay Federal taxes.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=49789



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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



You pay more taxes than just income taxes, genius.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.





RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!
As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is
whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies



And this is Geezer being non-partisan ... HAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
Dem Super Pac slams Obamacare because it really sucks and will cause herpes
Geezer
So some Democrats are running on pointing out that the Healthcare.gov rollout was an unmitigated disaster.

I feel so vindicated.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


rappy is wriggling as hard as he can.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Personally, I don't care. I don't even read its posts. But I did read the posts of others in this thread and I see that DUE TO ITS TROLLING it's become yet another thread all about rappy's trolling. And going back and forth about its claims and its posts and its small sex member or whatever else is wrong with it that makes it troll.

Please don't take the bait. It's not worth your time. It's not worth your energy.

You are all about facts. You think the facts will set you free. THAT'S ITS HOOK IN YOU. It trolls ridiculous tripe just to provoke you into responding. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

It ruins good threads and wastes your time. And while I get a small giggle about it running around frantically posting shit just to get ANY response, I'm saddened by the waste of your time and energy over such a pointless thing.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You're right. Yet another thread about rappy? Not worth it.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're right. Yet another thread about rappy? Not worth it.

It is not about auraptor. It is about the Tea Party. They have grievances and they're trying to build a group to seize power :
Quote:

Today, tens of millions of Patriot voices resonate in unison “We The People Rule!” In spite of ongoing hateful ridicule from socialists and leftists, we stood our post, day by day, month by month and now year in and year out. We will not stop. www.teaparty.org/about-us/

For an example from Firefly of overheated Tea Party rhetoric, Adam Baldwin seems enraged enough to fight #Tyranny with violence, not just words. His kill targets are still unspecified.
"Where Are We Now, America?" - Adam Baldwin Verified account @AdamBaldwin 5:12 PM—16 Jan 2014 http://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/423986038885715968/photo/1

Adam Baldwin Verified account @AdamBaldwin 9:43 AM—17 Jan 2014 http://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/424235651509145600/photo/1


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Kiki. I just got back from responding to you in the other thread, and had put this up just a little while ago, so was surprised to see how many responses it had gotten...until I got into it and saw it's another case of RapTroll making some asinine remarks and Sig taking the bait.

Your point is totally valid:
Quote:

You are all about facts. You think the facts will set you free. THAT'S ITS HOOK IN YOU. It trolls ridiculous tripe just to provoke you into responding.

That is precisely the hook that keeps getting to me. All RapTroll has to do is post some totally false, inane statement, and I have to fight the instinctive impulse to say "that's not true" and show facts refuting it. That's exactly what makes him so effective at trolling...he doesn't need to know anything at all, nor spend much time at it; just post something stupid and obviously wrong, preferably with a provocative sentence added, and those of us accustomed to actual communication will bite. I fully empathize with Sig's difficulty; it's very hard to let bullshit like that stand.

Sig, I offer a mantra for both of us (and others):




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:05 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY


And once again a perfectly relevant thread is hi-jacked by Auraptor and turned into a massive "LOOK AT ME EVERYONE".

Everytime you respond to him, you're discussion ends.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


NIKI... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...........!!!!!!!!!!

GASP!

TEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEE.....!

gasp!

heh heh heh heh......!!

mmmmmph!




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:22 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


(glad you liked it)

Amen, OldEnglandry.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:26 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Kleiner Perkins distances itself from controversial Tom Perkins editorial defending the rich

Tom Perkins, the 82-year-old cofounder of famous Silicon Valley venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, didn’t make any friends yesterday with a letter to the Wall Street Journal that compared critics of the rich to the persecutors of Jews in Nazi Germany. And KPCB itself has distanced itself from him.

In a tweet, KPCB said, “Tom Perkins has not been involved in KPCB in years. We were shocked by his views expressed today in the WSJ and do not agree.”

Clearly, the venture firm that backed companies like Google, Amazon, and Genentech doesn’t want to embroil itself in a debate that will cost it some venture business.

In a response to KPCB, Perkins told Bloomberg in an email, “Our philosophies and strategies have drifted so far apart now my name means little on the door.” He didn’t back off on the comparison in that email. He said, “In the Nazi era, it was racial demonization. Now it is class demonization.”

Another Twitter follower noted that Perkins is still technically a founder. Valley Wag said Perkins wrote a “disgustingly tone-deaf” statement. It reduced Perkins position to saying, “Criticizing the techno-affluent, and their at times unwanted transformation of San Francisco, is tantamount to one of the most horrific events in Western history. A critique of hubristic, tech-enabled culture shift is put on the same moral grounds as a nightmarish assault against Jews and Jewish-owned property.” http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/26/kleiner-perkins-distances-itself-fro
m-controversial-tom-perkins-editorial-defending-the-rich
/





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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This is nothing new, either, apparently:
Quote:

The rich have never been richer and the poor keep getting poorer. The Masters of the Universe enjoy indefinite taxpayer-funded bailouts, while the social safety net for the poor is gutted on the grounds that they should “suck it up and cope.” The ruling class that engineers crushing economic inequality gathers at Davos to pretend to care about said inequality, and then promises no concrete actions to combat the crisis. Many high-income earners pay a lower effective tax rate than low-income earners, and what little progressiveness there was has now been wrung out of the tax code.

And if you think there’s a problem with any of this, you’re a Nazi. At least according to the poor, put-upon oligarchs.

The latest rich dude to compare critiques of inequality to violent National Socialism is venture capitalist Tom Perkins – he of the $150 million yacht and the 5,500 square foot San Francisco penthouse. In a letter to the Wall Street Journal editor, this Silicon Valley billionaire bewailed supposed “parallels” between “fascist Nazi Germany’s war on its ‘one percent,’ namely its Jews” and “the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the ‘rich.’” Citing rising angst over tech-driven gentrification in San Francisco, he concluded: “This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent ‘progressive’ radicalism unthinkable now?”

From this skewed perspective, the 85 people who now own as much wealth as 3.5 billion people aren’t the big winners. They are instead a persecuted diaspora being exterminated by Hitler.

If that sounds absurd, that’s because it is. However, what’s being missed in much of the media outrage over Perkins’ letter is the fact that his sentiment isn’t new, or original. In fact, it’s actually quite mundane.

Yes, as predicted by Godwin’s Law, the phenomenon known as Reductio ad Hiterlum has become the aristocracy’s standard rejoinder to both critiques of economic inequality and policy proposals that might reduce such inequality. Here are just a few choice examples:
Quote:

Taxes are going to go up regardless. What I’m afraid of is, we shouldn’t punish any one group. Whether we’re punishing people who are wealthy. New York is for everybody; it’s for the poor, it’s for the middle-class, it’s for the wealthy. We can’t punish any one group and chase them away…. Hitler punished the Jews. We can’t have punishing the ‘2% group’ right now. – Supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis on proposals to raise taxes on the rich.

‘It’s a war. It’s like when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.’ – Private equity mogul Steven Schwarzman on proposals to tax private equity income at the same rate as other income.

I think Schumer can probably find the legislation to do this. It existed in Germany in the 1930s and Rhodesia in the ’70s and in South Africa as well. He probably just plagiarized it and translated it from the original German. – Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist on Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D) legislation bill to close tax loopholes abused primarily by the super-rich.

We’re about where Germany was before World War II where they became a social democracy. – U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) in the midst of a debate over raising taxes on the wealthy.

The Nazis were for high marginal tax rates. – ATR’s Grover Norquist

That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did. When (Obama) is proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist. – U.S. Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA)



You can find lots more of this Third Reich-flavored tripe by just Googling “Obama” and “Hitler.” If you broaden out your search beyond National Socialism to include all forms of violent white supremacy, you’ll find even more, including AIG CEO Robert Benmosche declaring that anger over his bailed-out company’s bonuses was “just as bad” as lynchings of African Americans in the Jim Crow South. And if you go one step further and look for all the claims that the rich are oppressed, you will find a seemingly endless supply of statements to that effect.

The point here – beyond simply deploring aristocrats for their gross insensitivity to those who lost family during the Holocaust and Jim Crow – is to understand all these outbursts not as anomalies, but as statements that are part of a larger narrative.

That deceptive narrative is what I called in my first book The Myth of the Persecuted Billionaire, and what Thomas Frank later called a trick designed to make us “pity the billionaire.” In the plutocrat-glorifying fable, the Tom Perkinses comprise the rag-tag team from “Inglourious Basterds” – the underdogs bravely defying the scourge of oppression and genocide.

The objective of this hideous mythology should be obvious. Rather than permit any honest discussion about the serious problems that accompany rampant economic inequality, the winners of that economic system aim to manufacture story lines that depict themselves – not the poor – as victims on par with history’s most persecuted peoples. It is, as Frank says, the great “hard-times swindle” of the modern era – and it is everywhere.

Acknowledging this is not to justify stuff like property damage to Google buses any more than it is to rationalize state-sanctioned police brutality against those protesting economic inequality. Indeed, even though there has been far more brutality committed in defense of the aristocrats, violence on either side of the class divide is inarguably deplorable.

But contextualizing Perkins’ comments in the growing catalogue of similarly themed rhetoric is critical to appreciating the ubiquity of the whole sordid meme. Tom Perkins’ letter to the editor is not, as the enraged commentary around it implies, some isolated or anomalous incident. Rather, it is a fairly standard example of a pervasive system of propaganda attempting to paint the world’s wealthiest oligarchs as victims. http://pando.com/2014/01/26/disingenuous-basterds-the-oligarchs-long-c
ampaign-to-depict-their-critics-as-nazis
/




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:44 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Venture capitalist Thomas Perkins pens letter to editor warning of a progressive Kristallnacht, gets called an idiot.

Perkins' comparison elicited harsh responses both on Twitter and from journalists. Slate's Matt Yglesias tweeted his reaction piece under the headline "Rich idiot warns of 'progressive Kristallnacht,' while the New York Times' Steven Greenhouse tweeted "As someone who lost numerous relatives to the Nazi gas chambers, I find statements like this revolting & inexplicable."

Perkins sits on the board of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., which owns the Wall Street Journal. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.570568


Re underlined sentence: Ahhh, well, there you go.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
rappy is wriggling as hard as he can.


Actually, that'd be you. You simply cannot handle the truth. And it bugs the ever living hell out of you.

Your problem, not mine.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I found this analysis interesting:
Quote:

I think we're missing the point if we see this as the gaffe of one aging, coddled jerk. Because it's only a more extreme and preposterous version of beliefs that have become increasingly widespread in the wealthiest sectors of American society, especially since 2008 and the twin events of the global financial crisis and the election of Barack Obama.


Let me state the phenomenon as clearly as possible: The extremely wealthy are objectively far wealthier, far more politically powerful and find a far more indulgent political class than at any time in almost a century - at least. And yet at the same time they palpably feel more isolated, abused and powerless than at any time over the same period and sense some genuine peril to the whole mix of privileges, power and wealth they hold.

There is a disconnect there that is so massive and glaring that it demands some sociocultural explanation. I've found it a difficult issue to get my arms fully around and to reorient my focus on day to day events to the longer horizon. But I do think it's one of the core political and economic issues of our time and deserves real explanation.

I first started noticing this when I saw several years ago that many of the wealthiest people in the country, especially people in financial services, not only didn't support Obama (not terribly surprising) but had a real and palpable sense that he was out to get them. This was hard to reconcile with the fact that Obama, along with President Bush, had pushed through a series of very unpopular laws and programs and fixes that had not only stabilized global capitalism, saved Wall Street but saved the personal fortunes (and perhaps even the personal liberty) of the people who were turning so acidly against him. Indeed, through the critical years of 2009, 10 and 11 he was serving as what amounted to Wall Street's personal heat shield, absorbing as political damage the public revulsion at the bailout policies that had kept Wall Street whole.

Let's start by stipulating that no one expects the extremely wealthy to react happily to mounting discussion of wealth and income inequality or left-wing diatribes about "the 1%." But again, the reaction is extreme and excessive and frequently runs into less comical versions of Perkins' screed, with weird fears of persecution and threat from the folks who quite truly rule the roost.

I see three basic roots, though I don't think my list is exhaustive.

One is the simple but massive run up in the concentration of wealth itself over the past two generations. There's a slice of the population, whether it's the top 1% or .01% or whatever, that doesn't just have more stuff and money. The sheer scale of the difference means they live what is simply a qualitatively different kind of existence. That gulf creates estrangement and alienation, and one of a particular sort in a democracy where such a minuscule sliver of the population can't hope to protect itself alone at the ballot box.

Let's call this socioeconomic acrophobia.

A second is tied specifically to the 2008 financial crisis. The last 35 years or so have seen a period in which the celebration of wealth and the wealthy has been near the extreme end of the pendulum swing that has moved back and forth over the course of American history. Let's not distract ourselves, for the moment, with whether this view is right or wrong. It's a pendulum swing as old as America. In this view, the super rich, the founders and most successful entrepreneurs, not only wow us by their genius and success but are also seen as the people driving forward the society and economy and prosperity for everyone. That's a nice climate to be wealthy in.

That all changed very abruptly at the end of 2008.

Suddenly, there was vast public animus at "Wall Street" and the Big Banks, exacerbated massively by the politics of the bailout. And not just from the left but from the right too, though in a different form. Pretty deserved on many levels: the financial sector, the figurative "Wall Street", had come close to crashing the global economic system by a mix of irresponsible risk taking and gaming the political system to permit this high-risk, wealth-juicing leverage. But if we're to understand the psychology of the individuals involved we must appreciate the whipsaw nature of that experience.

Quite simply, these were and are folks who just weren't used to public criticism. The whole "masters of the universe" mythology was basically, sure we're massively wealthy. But we're also the ones keeping the globe we all live on from spinning off its axis. So let us enjoy our Hamptons estates and our private jets in peace and we'll do our jobs and you do yours. The crossfire hurricane that ripped apart that social contract stung a lot.

And then there's the other really important variable in the equation. We know now that Wall Street came out of the financial crisis pretty nicely. But that was far from clear in the fall of 2008. The titans, under-titans and sub-titans saw the entire financial system spin on the edge of un-self-regulating collapse, something the reining ideology of recent decades said shouldn't have been possible along with the real prospect of whole personal fortunes evaporating in an instant. That kind of scare is not easy to forget. Mix it with the need to run to the political class hat in hand and that ocean of animus from the public at large and you get the makings of a political and psychological toxicity that breeds Perkinsonian nonsense at the extreme end and more pervasively the sense of embattlement and threat verging on persecution complex that I described above.

It is that mix of insecurity, a sense of the brittleness of one's hold on wealth, power, privileges, combined with the reality of great wealth and power, that breeds a mix of aggressiveness and perceived embattlement.

Third there is the simple fact of Obama himself. By various criteria you could argue that before Obama America hadn't had a progressive president in decades. Popular perceptions aside, Carter was actually part of the privatizing trend of the late 70s. And Clinton, while genuinely a progressive in many ways, served most of his presidency during a period when basically everyone was either getting rich or making at least some progress. And when everybody is getting at least some taste of the good times, these sorts of antagonisms find a way of getting overlooked or passed over. President Obama is far from being a Franklin Roosevelt or Harry Truman. But he is a progressive and sees the economy and the larger society's claims on the very wealthy differently than a Bush or a Reagan. And again, that was just not something any of these folks had experienced before.

But again, the answer is the confluence of these events, no one of them. It's worth remembering that Bill Clinton pushed through a reasonably substantial tax hike on upper income earners in 1993. President Obama meanwhile largely maintained the tax policies of George W. Bush, the guy who had in essence repealed Clinton's tax increase. These are all facts that are hard to ignore.

Put it all together and you get the climate in which someone like Perkins writes something as ridiculous as he did. As I said up top, his Holocaust analogy is so hyperbolic and ridiculous that he's getting dumped on by almost everyone. But we miss the point if we see this in isolation or just the rant of one out-of-touch douchebag. It is pervasive. The disconnect between perception and reality, among such a powerful segment of the population, is in itself dangerous. And it's led to what I would call a significant radicalization of the politics of extreme wealth. My evidence for this is only anecdotal. But it's come up in conversations I've had with many business reporters who cover these folks on a daily basis.

We take it more or less rightly as a given that people in finance will have generally right-leaning politics - low taxes, tight money, lax regulatory regimes. Basically traditional money Republicanism. But over the last few years (since 2008), I think there's been a pretty dramatic growth in what we'd call Tea Party politics in that set - extreme conservatism that goes beyond hands off fiscal and regulatory policy, the kind of feverish mindset in which you could write with a straight face that progressives might be building toward some sort of mass wealth confiscation or internment or even extermination for the likes of Tom Perkins.

It's a problem. And Perkins is just getting our attention because his self-censor and/or editor failed him so miserably. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-brittle-grip-part-2




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
And once again a perfectly relevant thread is hi-jacked by Auraptor and turned into a massive "LOOK AT ME EVERYONE".

Everytime you respond to him, you're discussion ends.



I was needlessly attacked, and my integrity was impugned. I was lied about, so what should I do ?

A post was made, I offered my honest view, and got attacked for it. How is that 'trolling' ?

The intolerance lies on the Left, not the Right. And when ever a point is made which can't be disputed, ad hominems by the Left are sure to follow.

So it is in RWED.

I get that. I really do. But I'm sure as hell not going to roll over and allow others to falsely define who I am.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



First lie and attack -

Quote:

The same thing that explains Perkins' letter also explains rappy's response. He is one of those $400K+ individuals whose taxes have gone up, and because of that he's whining about tyranny. So please ....


Second lie -

Quote:

Oh, and rappy constantly denies things he quite clearly said.



And still more lies...

Quote:

Well, you deny pretty much everything you've ever said, like that bit about being stuck in an elevator with 14-year-old girls, or calling all women who want contraception covered by insurance "whores". That's why you hate being quoted.








Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:45 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...





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Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Wow. After 1,500 times posting this crap, you'd think some folks would give it up.


Saying 'ignore' over and over isn't ignoring anyone. It's the exact opposite.

Hadn't figured that out yet, have ya?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.





RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!
As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is
whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies



And this is Geezer being non-partisan ... HAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
Dem Super Pac slams Obamacare because it really sucks and will cause herpes
Geezer
So some Democrats are running on pointing out that the Healthcare.gov rollout was an unmitigated disaster.

I feel so vindicated.


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Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



That's not how you apologize, 1Kiki. C'mon, you can do better.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Back in the Gilded Age, every strike, every worker movement, every bit of organizing was seen by the plutocrats as the coming of a revolution that would kill them all. See the response to the Tompkins Square unemployment marches, which the rich saw as the Paris Commune coming to America ( http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2014/01/this-day-in-labor-history-
january-13-1874
). Similarly, with every funeral, every note of music, every coming of the night, slave owners fretted about their human property rising up and killing them all, turning South Carolina into Haiti. That’s what I thought of when I read Mr. Perkins' letter to the editor in the Wall Street Journal.

I suppose we could take this as positive, that a few fast food workers demanding $15 are actually scaring the plutocracy. But I don’t see it that way. They are so secure in their position that they have the luxury of freaking out over each cent or right the poor demand from their betters. http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2014/01/plutocrat-fears-of-the-new
-gilded-age





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Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nothing to do with the topic, just a diversion into the troll meme.

Isn't it amazing that rappy isn't one of just a very few? That there are so MANY they actually have their own classification, definition, and set of inet cartoons about them? Amazing, that the thing that calls itself rappy is just another common stereotype.

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Second

I read their non-negotiable list. It seems rather self-contradictory and frankly incoherent (as well as factually wrong). What do you think are the unstated assumptions that tie it all together?

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Second

I read their non-negotiable list. It seems rather self-contradictory and frankly incoherent (as well as factually wrong). What do you think are the unstated assumptions that tie it all together?

The Tea Party sees itself as a religious and racial minority under attack by the Forces of Evil. Behind that would be the billionaires, who want to run the USA while not paying taxes, bankrolling the Tea Party. www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I got that same sense. I was wondering if I was putting too much of my own reading into it. If I was, then we're doing the same thing.

I also get the sense that while they claim to want small government, they're not so interested in democracy. 'Cause in a democracy, 'they' - those non-WASPS - might actually have a say in how the country is run. No wonder all this took off while a half-black man was president.

I haven't thought about it, but I wonder if they've gone so far as to figure out how they'll get the iron-clad rule over others they so obviously want. Yanno, so that society runs the way they want, forever and ever, amen.

Wait. I think I got it. The problem's obviously the federal government with its constitutional role. The answer is to reduce the constitution to a historical document that only applies to the past, and therefor provides no protection against modern encroachments.

That and the fact that the more hysterical among them see themselves as armed patriots ready to overthrow a democratically and legally elected government in the name of 'freedom'.

Do you see the same thing?

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Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:12 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Do you see the same thing?

Yes. Again, Adam Baldwin is the Uber-Patriot, a perfect example of Tea Party paranoia. With all his guns (and every other Tea Party Patriot I know has guns for "protection" ) it is not a pretty picture for the future of the USA.

Romney lost, but when the Tea Party wins this will be the future.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, January 27, 2014 6:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Cutbacks in reproductive rights ?

If it's a "right", then it shouldn't cost the govt anything. It's inalienable, to all. Joss, love ya man, but this COMEDY bit was nothing but a collection of neat sounding words, with no real meaning, what so ever.

Zombie Apocalypse.

Why does anyone think that Hollywood is pushing 'zombies' on us so damn hard now ?

Here's an idea. The Left view themselves as the 'humans', and everyone else as the brain dead, flesh eating zombies. Leftists are our last great hope. They are the only remaining piece of humanity which remains on Earth, and taking down zombies by the bushel isn't just their job, it's their duty for survival.

Grrrr, Argghh, indeed.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, January 27, 2014 9:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, THANK YOU Second...clearly big prize for first giggle of the morning.

Go Joss!!

(What do all our righties have to say about Joss proclaiming himself as a "liberal"? No, wait; I don't want to know)


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Monday, January 27, 2014 1:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Proof conservative radio didn't " make " people agree with them...

Glen Beck called Perkins " a hero ",

Rush then went on to praise him as well.

How'd I come out in support of this guy, on my own, before being told what to think/ say?

Amazing!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, January 27, 2014 1:27 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...





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Monday, January 27, 2014 1:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I like yours. They're funny and you always find something different.

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Monday, January 27, 2014 1:41 PM

STORYMARK


I just skip its posts now - makes each thread much more coherent (and shorter).

As for the original topic - not much to add that hasn't been covered. Hard to find much sympathy for the "suffering" of the uber-wealthy - and his holocaust comparison puts him on the "needs a beating" list, on sheer principle.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, January 27, 2014 1:43 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:





That does cover the standard troll-talking-points pretty well. Just missing "Alinsky!"




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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