One nation under my gawd by Wishimay

Trying to head them off?

You know what's funny? My grandma actually believes people have only been here for 6000 years and that any human skeletons found before then ARE FAKED.

And she and I get along great.

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Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:34 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

It's because people can't behave reasonably any more. Folks get polarized between the "Oh, you can't say 'Merry Christmas' in school" faction and the "Everybody must love my particular God" faction, so there's no middle ground for the "have a nice Easter/Hanukkah/Ramadan/Vesak/Krishna Jayanti/Pastafarian Pastover/I Dunno Day(no such thing, but we agnostics need a day too)" wishes for your neighbor of a different faith.

Atheists, I understand, have no holidays, since that means 'holy days' and they don't consider anything holy. Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either. I don't care much for such atheists.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:36 PM

I can say from personal experience that people here are obsessed with Christmas and nothing else from October to January.

Every day for months coloring sheets and art projects and holiday plays and concerts...

I'd actually kind of look forward to fighting for equal play of religions, if I thought religion should BE taught to impressionable children by less than objective people in the first place...

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Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I Dunno Day(no such thing, but we agnostics need a day too)

I walk around every day shaking my head and saying "I dunno"

I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that more

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:01 AM

rezident owtsidr

A smarter version uv Bart Simpson woud be plotting to require equal reprezentation for all relijionz in skool, The dezired effect woud be year round 2 week holidayz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:05 AM

Quote:

Atheists, I understand, have no holidays, since that means 'holy days' and they don't consider anything holy. Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either. I don't care much for such atheists.

I object. Just because my personality is that of a parasitic joy-sucking black hole of negativity, and because I think that holidays ignore reality, doesn't mean I don't want other people to have holidays. Those are separate issues.

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree, Wish...in my opinion, people becoming "active" about religion these days is because it's been shoved down our throat so much, it didn't just come out of the blue. Chicken and the egg, I suppose; Christianity has been shoved down our throats all along, but as people become less religious (they are, in America) and as a relatively small group of fervent born-againers and the like shove it harder into our schools, the resistance grows.

I don't think Geezer knows many atheists, or doesn't know them very well. All the ones I've known may (or may not) have strong feelings about organized religion, but it's not that other people worship, it's that religion is forced on them and/or their children that upsets them.

I guess you could call me an atheist since we have no God in Buddhism and I've never been able to accept the idea of some supreme being who looks like us (whether male or female or whatever) personally determining everyone's fate...it just doesn't wash. At the same time I have nothing against others having FAITH, it's organized religion that is insistent on judging everyone and telling everyone what they should think and do which bothers me, and Christianity being pushed in schools is precisely that. And it's been pushed HARDER in recent years than ever in my memory.

At the same time, as was shown by Pew Research on Religion in America( http://religions.pewforum.org/), 44% of adults have switched religious affiliation. They have become unaffiliated with any religion. They have declined to identify any faith. Or they have dropped any connection to a specific religious tradition. As we become less religious, the ultra-religious push harder.

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 10:05 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
... so there's no middle ground for the "have a nice Easter/Hanukkah/Ramadan/Vesak/Krishna Jayanti/Pastafarian Pastover/I Dunno Day(no such thing, but we agnostics need a day too)" wishes for your neighbor of a different faith.

Everyone I know is in this middle ground, and that includes people of many stripes and colors and beliefs. I have lived in many diverse areas. Never seen anyone attack another person's holiday, never had anyone personally tell me that I can't do Christmas because I don't do Christ or whatever.

On the other hand, I have had religious people tell me to my face that I should not have control of my body, that I can't possibly have a moral foundation, that I will go to hell when I die, and that I can't tell a man from a boy or a man from a horse because I support gay marriage. (ie supporting man/man is the same as supporting man/boy or man/horse. Uh - only if you're stupid and blind!)

So, geezer, do a majority of actual people in your actual life live at those extremes? I mean, not some random schmoes you read about in some article or blog, but real people in your life who are demonstrably not in that middle ground.

Quote:
Atheists, I understand, have no holidays, since that means 'holy days' and they don't consider anything holy. Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either. I don't care much for such atheists.

I'm an avid atheist and I have not once insisted that no one have holidays. I enjoy holidays, as do my atheist friends.

So, again, are these real people in your real life you speak of? If you have had this experience personally, have you attempted to add the number of atheists who you have actually seen trying to kill Christmas and compared that to the number of atheists who really don't care?

*-------------------------------------------------------------*
MAL4PREZ: Clearly [The Rap]'s doing nothing but trolling now.
STORYMARK: And not even cleverly.
RAPPY: [My trolling] did its job, did it not? Easiest marks in the 'verse.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57146
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 10:32 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Atheists, I understand, have no holidays, since that means 'holy days' and they don't consider anything holy. Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either. I don't care much for such atheists.

I object. Just because my personality is that of a parasitic joy-sucking black hole of negativity, and because I think that holidays ignore reality, doesn't mean I don't want other people to have holidays. Those are separate issues.

Good. Then you don't fall into the "Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either." category and I can continue to respect you and enjoy your participation in RWED.

Unfortunately, I have met atheists who oppose anyone's right to celebrate a religious holiday (even privately). They're as bad to me as the folks who want to only allow their particular religious holidays.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 10:38 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
So, geezer, do a majority of actual people in your actual life live at those extremes? I mean, not some random schmoes you read about in some article or blog, but real people in your life who are demonstrably not in that middle ground.

No.

But, unfortunately, like so many other issues, it's not the actual numbers that frame the debate, but the folks who make the most noise - those that want the Ten Commandments on the courthouse lawn and those who oppose them, for example.

Quote:
I'm an avid atheist and I have not once insisted that no one have holidays. I enjoy holidays, as do my atheist friends.

So, again, are these real people in your real life you speak of? If you have had this experience personally, have you attempted to add the number of atheists who you have actually seen trying to kill Christmas and compared that to the number of atheists who really don't care?

I have met several who are as dogmatic about their position on holidays as the most evangelical Christian.

I'm glad that you and your friends enjoy holidays and hope you have many more.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Atheists, I understand, have no holidays, since that means 'holy days' and they don't consider anything holy. Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either. I don't care much for such atheists.

I object. Just because my personality is that of a parasitic joy-sucking black hole of negativity, and because I think that holidays ignore reality, doesn't mean I don't want other people to have holidays. Those are separate issues.

Good. Then you don't fall into the "Many of them don't want anyone else to have holidays either." category and I can continue to respect you and enjoy your participation in RWED.

Unfortunately, I have met atheists who oppose anyone's right to celebrate a religious holiday (even privately). They're as bad to me as the folks who want to only allow their particular religious holidays.

I do however try to encourage people to do something non-selfish on holidays and generally act like a killjoy, so I can see how you got that impression.

I'm no longer sure why I'm trying to defend myself anymore, nor even if I want your endorsement on this particular matter. It's actually looking more constructive at the moment to play up being a terrible awful intolerable atheist because I think it might give both of us some strange twisted satisfaction and because it lampoons this stereotyped categorization I have become subject to. And because me being a terrible awful intolerable atheist is probably an accurate assessment.

So here goes: "I hate everyone! Especially children! Burn Christmas! Whee!"

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 11:56 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
So here goes: "I hate everyone! Especially children! Burn! Christmas! Tree!"

Fixed that for you.

After our Christmas tree was nice and dry, we used to take it out back to the burn pile, stand it up in a hole for the base, and set that sucker on fire. Damn, those things burn good.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:09 PM

You have proposed an acceptable alternative, and curse you for knowing me so well.

I will get the marshmallows, graham crackers, and chocolate.

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:25 PM

I think we're all in agreement that burning things and eating gooey things around said fire is fun.

Let's make a holiday out of that. I could whole heartedly participate in that I think.

There, problem fixed...

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:44 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Our local temple celebrates the New Year with a huge bonfire; they provide paper and pencils, and we write the things we'd like to get rid of in the New Year and toss them in the fire. I always liked that.

Until the last few years, we've always celebrated Xmas, not religiously, but as a holiday the nation celebrates, a time to come together, have a big dinner, give gifts, etc. Now that Jim's kids are grown and not around and we're both elderly, just trimming the tree takes a full day and ends up with two bad backs, and untrimming it does the same, so we haven't bothered the past few years. I have nothing against anyone celebrating any faith or holiday, I just don't want it shoved down my throat, and yes, I, too, have been told by many religious types that because I'm Buddhist and have no god, I'm going to hell, etc., etc., and been unpleasantly harassed. To me those aren't Christians, they're "christians", because from everything I've read, that's not what Jesus or the religion are about.

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 4:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

I'm an avid atheist and I have not once insisted that no one have holidays. I enjoy holidays, as do my atheist friends.

I'm just curious, what do you mean by 'avid' atheist. Were you born into a non religious family ? Did you 'find' your atheism on your own ?

For me, I just never bought the company line about God™, Jeebus or any of it. However, I didn't really go full blown non-believer until I was a young adult.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:16 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You have proposed an acceptable alternative, and curse you for knowing me so well.

I will get the marshmallows, graham crackers, and chocolate.

You and Madame Geezer would get along well, at least as far as s'mores are concerned. And that's all that really matters.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, January 24, 2014 4:59 AM

rezident owtsidr

Youre all about haf way there.

You dont like relijun, but reeeellly, you dont understand why.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, January 24, 2014 5:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Feh, I have holidays, well, one holiday, oft-repeated.
"Watch other people be happy."

I might even play along a little if it's entertaining or makes people happier - like the plastic eggs with toys/candy I hide near the units of folks with kids early on Easter morning, heh.

I do get annoyed by the crass commercialism, but no sense takin that out on folks who are not at fault for it.

-F

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Friday, January 24, 2014 12:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

When people get together and are nice to each other, what's not to like? Personally, I like Xmas best. Nothing is prettier than colored lights and snow. And then you can look up into the night sky (if you live away from the city) and see the moon riding in clouds, and appreciate the bigness of the universe and how small we really are.

And the idea that people puts light on their houses... lights for others to see, for family and friends, for neighbors, visitors, and strangers who happen to be walking by... just to be pretty, just to be festive, just to make a nice human space in such a big universe- to me, that is the best holiday of all because it's for everyone.

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Friday, January 24, 2014 2:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Youre all about haf way there.

You dont like relijun, but reeeellly, you dont understand why.

Of course we do. I have an irrational distrust of authority because I think it inevitably leads to abuse. I assume it's pretty much the same logical construct for everyone else. I mean, for goodness sake, I am speaking with someone who is challenging traditions of English spelling and grammar because of the influence it has over our thought processes. We wouldn't be here if we weren't all thought-rebels in some way or another.

Oh, also, I have been informed by my religious friends and family that I am "possessed" by "demons" and that "my entering a room" is like "a shadow cast upon God's glory" and "a malaise of misfortune" and that the "electrical malfunctions" are "really freakin' weird" and I "need to stop that."

In the interest of open-mindedness, I will accept both answers for now. Because logically, if I were possessed by demons, then I probably also wouldn't be inclined to accept various religious tenants, in much the same manner my believing in conspiracy and distrusting religious control would cause me to reject religion. Also it would explain the general aversion to churches and holy grounds. And the fire.

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Friday, January 24, 2014 2:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
the "electrical malfunctions" are "really freakin' weird" and I "need to stop that."

WAIT, YOU CAN DO THAT TOO?????
So can hubs. Blocks the damn TV antenna EVERY TIME HE WALKS IN A ROOM!!!

Biologically speaking, Aspergers is hyper wiring in parts of the brain and I always though the increased electrical activity acted like a small faraday cage, or maybe it had to do with high levels of iron (he's a bleeder, one cut will bleed for days)

But that's interesting, it's like you guys actually have a power, maybe not super but, hey any kind or power that's real is neat...

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Friday, January 24, 2014 2:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Oh, also, I have been informed by my religious friends and family that I am "possessed" by "demons" and that "my entering a room" is like "a shadow cast upon God's glory" and "a malaise of misfortune" and that the "electrical malfunctions" are "really freakin' weird" and I "need to stop that."

*laughing hysterically*
Man if I ever blacken the soil of Utah with my presence ever again I am soooo gonna troll them, be fun to watch - and yes, I have had holy water thrown at me before, people are crazieee.

Also, this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_light_interference_phenomenon

Damn things have this strange tendancy to go out/turn themselves off whenever I happen by, leading at least one previous girlfriend to accuse me of doing it on purpose - not helped by someone needing to find me at a convention doing so by following the flickering lights across the parking lot to where I was having a smoke.

-F

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Friday, January 24, 2014 3:25 PM

Quote:
WAIT, YOU CAN DO THAT TOO?????

No, they just think I can. I get even more weird looks when people think I'm precognitive and clairvoyant.

Ah, wait, I'm not being open-minded again. Yes, I totally have super powers.

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Friday, January 24, 2014 3:36 PM

Muh-huh

Me thinks there's trolling a plenty going on on both sides, not that they didn't have it coming, but...

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Friday, January 24, 2014 9:31 PM

rezident owtsidr

You must be a fan uv The 9th Gate, Byte. Great movie.

OK, maybe you do hav an inkling why.

My take on it iz that we naturally hate being compelled to do sumthing that we think iz stupid.

Part uv the skool mindset seemz to be training students to take orderz without question. Its a minimum 12 year course uv reward & punishment full uv rote memorization, dont think, just do az the teacher sez, or else.

I dont know the history, but I hav the impression skoolz were run mostly by churchez in previous centuryz, so the relijus dogma feeding traditionz are in the DNA uv todayz skoolz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, January 24, 2014 10:21 PM

CHRISISALL

Iz tzs an xprmnt n blsht nglsh?

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Saturday, January 25, 2014 3:24 AM

rezident owtsidr

no. ekspirimens wer dun u long tim ugo. klik xu link tu se xu finist produkt.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, January 28, 2014 4:06 PM