What does The Alliance stand for, to YOU? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What does The Alliance stand for, to YOU?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, May 8, 2014 14:30
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Tuesday, May 6, 2014 11:47 PM

To ME, The Alliance is a rather thinly veiled version of today's America, an entity which boasts a unification of diversity, but in reality is just another empire attempting to ignore or interfere with the individual citizen as it sees fit depending upon his or her threat to 'the body' or his or her worth as an income source.
Blue Sun (Them who undoubtedly fund & ultimately own Parlament) stands for Big Oil/Agro/Pharma- those who see harming (or not, depending on the venture) us as a business that yields great returns.
Is The Alliance Left or Right?
Both IMO.
"We tell them what to do, what to think. Don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

Thoughts?

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Tuesday, May 6, 2014 11:50 PM

REAVERFAN

Blue Sun = Oligarchy, pretending to libertarianism.

An economic elite who think themselves worthy of their privilege.

They make such good choices.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW

The Alliance represents (to me) a quasi-totalitarian state where citizens have few liberties, and few or none of the Constitutional protections we have here and generally take for granted. A state where only the inner political elite get the goodies ... like China.

Blue Sun represents (to me) Central Government control of major industries and financial services, akin to European socialism, and to a lesser degree, subsidized quasi-capitalism in America.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 1:01 AM

CHRISISALL

"All right, let's help these people."
Nice sentiment. But not for poor folk I take it.
"That goes on my permanent record!"
Family values....
"I'm a monster..."
Unrealistically self-aware radical black ops dude or EVEN MORE unrealistically self-aware 'freedom fighting' terrorist coward.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:59 AM

OONJERAH

Goin' with the OP. Alliance reminds me of US.

Except this: In the aftermath of their very hot civil war, at least
some of the planets would have suffered a zombie apocalypse.
.
.
Prob'ly Joss & Tim were saving that for season 2. :(

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:50 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Is The Alliance Left or Right?
Both IMO.

I agree with the above. It's neither left nor right. It's just inherently corrupted by lobby groups and money, I imagine. Blue Sun is ubiquitous.

It is, essentially, us on a global scale. Just a little bit further down the line.

A history of colonization followed by a period of devastating wars? Massive wealth inequality? Lobby groups and money undermine democratic structures even in places where we believe it's established (i.e. Western democracies)?
That's Earth. Right now.

Our personal relationship with surveillance (massive, sophisticated, nearly unchecked) is just a few steps removed from Gabriel Tam's "permanent profile", and we're utterly placid.

Considering our own "outer planets" have been in turmoil for some time, and we care about as much about drone strikes in Pakistan as the Core Planets did about the razing of Shadow, I'm going to speculate:

You can't topple the Alliance from the Border. You do it from within. That's where the show would have gone. That's what the Pax was for: gently quiet any resistance in the Core. Quiet is good for business. The sombnabulant public, giving no care fo exploitation outside its borders or oppression within it.

The show is basically holding a mirror up to us: we're the Core Planets, in the lap of wealth and power, failing to be vigilant, failing to misbehave.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:39 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:04 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

The show is basically holding a mirror up to us: we're the Core Planets, in the lap of wealth and power, failing to be vigilant, failing to misbehave.

"Don't run; don't walk..."

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:12 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:48 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:09 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
To ME, The Alliance is a rather thinly veiled version of today's America, an entity which boasts a unification of diversity, but in reality is just another empire attempting to ignore or interfere with the individual citizen as it sees fit depending upon his or her threat to 'the body' or his or her worth as an income source.
Blue Sun (Them who undoubtedly fund & ultimately own Parlament) stands for Big Oil/Agro/Pharma- those who see harming (or not, depending on the venture) us as a business that yields great returns.
Is The Alliance Left or Right?
Both IMO.
"We tell them what to do, what to think. Don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

Thoughts?

Id say your premise is pretty spot-on.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

Americans killed under Obama due to "intelligence failures": 4

Americans killed under Bush due to "intelligence failures": 7000+

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 5:23 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Whedon did say - Alliance sometimes represents a "beautiful shining light of democracy" but at other times reflects the American government as it was when it intervened in Vietnam.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 5:32 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:42 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Quote:
Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:
Whedon did say - Alliance sometimes represents a "beautiful shining light of democracy" but at other times reflects the American government as it was when it intervened in Vietnam.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

A government of the people, by the people and for the people is something I recall hearing in my past. I guess two out of three at bad.

I don't see the Alliance government so much as what the US government is now, but what it could be in the future. I fear us getting there is voters in this country don't take voting more seriously, do their own research, and we have more people decide to run for offices.

I think the Alliance government is good and bad all at the same time. I don't know how many people have read the timeline in "The Verse in Numbers" http://pics.fireflyprops.net/TVIN-2.0.pdf but it discribes how the Alliance government came about. While would be easy to see a government being evil for enforcing martial law and removing rights it is also easy to see why they would do that to save the human race. If this sse truly how the Alliance started I can understand how it would be very hard for it to relinquish power once the Verse was settled.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
I thought this thread would get a lot of hits?

This was discussed very thoroughly when we invaded Iraq, because it was a raw topic back then, too. Joss made it pretty plain that it was America.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:56 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:13 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Very interesting post, once again Chris.

Not blowing smoke up your ass when I say that a sizable portions of threads that are worth reading here come from you. Whether it's something truly funny that's targeted to sci-fi nerds like us or some philosophical question like this that sparks some serious debate instead of the usual mindless shit-flinging.....

It's actually pretty scary to me that you view the Alliance as a thinky veiled version of "Today's" America. For going on the better part of a decade when I first saw Firefly, I immediately felt your word's for "Today's" America that would have been in 2005-6, when barely anybody outside of Illinois knew that Barack was an actual First Name, let alone the fact that I hated everything that the Government was pulling while GWB presided.

I've never thought of you as anything close to a zealot. You've got a cool temper and an open mind. That being said, you definitely leaned left where I leaned right.

For you to say that the Alliance reminds you of "Today's" America, I don't know whether to feel really sad that 2016 will come and go and there will have been zero change and zero improvements... or to feel happy that some people might actually be seriously considering 3rd party in the 2016 election.

You have a lot of other insightful things to say in the original post I'd love to reply with, but short of the following, I don't think I'm good for much more philosophical speaking tonight. :)

Is the Alliance Right or Left? (Both, IMO, says Chris)

You're Goddamned Right.

Why would you automatically that the Alliance even stood for an alliance between the US and China?

Maybe the Alliance refered to the Neo-2-Party-System-Thats-Really-1-Party?

Maybe the only reason that America and China were on the same page of anything was simply because this Demon/Rethug 1 party spread to China and engulfed them as well.

There is rarely a Political reference in the show among the actors. Some Religion comes into it, or at least philosophical questions about Religion, but at least in the 1st season of Firefly, most references to Government were vague and not even necessary for the story. We probably wouldn't be tackling current political talking points until at least the 3rd season.

Maybe Firefly being cancelled after only one season was a serious blessing in disguise.

No.... I have no belief that "The Alliance" was even referencing some US/China Pact.

I mean, sure, you could probably show me EXACT dialogue from the show and/or movie to refute that statement, but I still wouldn't believe it to be false. A true genius artist speaks on the surface as well as subversively at the same time. This is what separates the competent writers from the truly excellent writers.

It's interesting you picked up on this now, and I even can relate to the epiphany you experienced when things "clicked".

I believe that in the Firefly universe there was no political dialogue between long time friends and short term clients because there was no political dialogue period.

Things simply were what they were, and nobody disagreed.

Take a moment to realize that it just might take 400 years to get everyone in 2 super-powers to feel that way. Just how harsh would the punishment inflicted on anyone who dared speak in public a single word against how "The Alliance" decided we should live our lives.

That's not what Firefly was about, but in a way it's exactly what Firefly was about.

Mal didn't have time for that shit.

The Alliance, between Democrats and Republicans Forevermore......

No room for any 3rd party there. So Mal bought a decades old piece of shit that sometimes barely floats along in space, surrounded himself with a group of great people he could trust (99.9% of the time) and me made sure they all fit the niches the job required.

Mal, and the Crew of Firefly Are the 3rd Party.

;)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
To ME, The Alliance is a rather thinly veiled version of today's America, an entity which boasts a unification of diversity, but in reality is just another empire attempting to ignore or interfere with the individual citizen as it sees fit depending upon his or her threat to 'the body' or his or her worth as an income source.
Blue Sun (Them who undoubtedly fund & ultimately own Parlament) stands for Big Oil/Agro/Pharma- those who see harming (or not, depending on the venture) us as a business that yields great returns.
Is The Alliance Left or Right?
Both IMO.
"We tell them what to do, what to think. Don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

Thoughts?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:16 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by M52NICKERSON: I don't know how many people have read the timeline in "The Verse in Numbers" http://pics.fireflyprops.net/TVIN-2.0.pdf

That is so amazing - thx for sharing, I had not seen it. My first impression was: That timeline is full of stories!
"I am the last of the Earth Born."

Oh, there is a slightly updated version....

http://pics.fireflyprops.net/TVIN-2.01.pdf

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:20 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:38 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
She did say rather thinly veiled version. Joss suggested himself he was thinking of what the future may be, looking at the world as it is.

"She"? Sorry, I'm not following exactly what you meant Miker.

Of course he was thinking about the future, as in how it would be at that time.

I was just saying that I believe "The Alliance" was not a reference between a pact between US and China, but a pact between Democrats and Republicans that essentially made the Government an entity that presided over all of us with a single voice.

Mal had just about enough of that bullshit.

So did 50,000 other space pirates, likely.

The reason the show was made about Firefly was because the crew were a family, and likely a much better family than a lot of us grew up with. They're a symbol of Anarchy working.

Nobody would want to watch a show that revolved around a "family" of Reavers..... which essentially would not only be the exact opposite of what Mal's family was, but a metaphor for our own fears of what people would be like if we didn't have cops pulling us over for not wearing our seat belts...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 2:25 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Nobody would want to watch a show that revolved around a "family" of Reavers.....

"LEAVE IT TO REAVER"

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 2:30 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

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