Thanks for all the fish by SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I have no idea what this "map" is, but it's probably related to a server. When I first open up mapquest, it thinks I'm in Thousand Oaks. When I first open wunderground, it thinks I'm in Torrance.

Or maybe the map just has a default address-like the crime map that the LA City police had instituted a number of years ago. If an entered address couldn't be mapped, it just defaulted to the polic station.

I'd sure like to know how it works, but the fact that so many people wind up next to each other on one map looks like it's simply a default address (either physical or IP) for "unknown". It's many miles away from where I live... and I prefer to keep it that way.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 2:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

M52

Quote:
Any reasonable person is going to question a Russian new outlet when you have a conflict that is pro/anti-Russian.

Any reasonable person would question an American news outlet when you have a conflict that involves America, And this conflict very clearly does, with Obama "sanctioning" Russia and getting all involved in other ways for who-knows-what reasons.

Which is why I go to MANY news outlets, and almost never post from RT.
So, in the htread in question, here is a list of my links...

RT video of man with Ukraine armband shooting at the Odessa building (you can find this same clip from many sources)
globalresearch (NOTE: NOT RT)
Business News Euopre (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
YOUtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)

Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??

Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.

Quote:
What evil plan do you think the US has for Ukraine?

What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?

I used to think that the USA had some resource extraction plan, or some plan to prevent the use of a currency other than the petrodollar. But the invasion of Iraq which was supposed to pay for itself in oil - never did. The oil output of Libya similarly fell, and has never been restored to its pre-war levels. Same for Sudan. If we went in for oil, we failed to get it.

So all we've done is destroy these nations' economies, pump them full of guns and other arms, cause starvation and displacement crises, reduce them to civil war and boost the most violent among them -notably jihadists, kick women down to the status of chattel, and destroy educational opportunities.

I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.

I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 2:30 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Quote:
Any reasonable person is going to question a Russian new outlet when you have a conflict that is pro/anti-Russian.
Any reasonable person would question an American news outlet when you have a conflict that involves America, And this conflict very clearly does, with Obama "sanctioning" Russia and getting all involved in other ways for who-knows-what reasons.

Which is why I go to MANY news outlets, and almost never post from RT.
So, in the htread in question, here is a list of my links...

RT video of man with Ukraine armband shooting at the Odessa building (you can find this same clip from many sources)
globalresearch (NOTE: NOT RT)
Business News Euopre (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
YOUtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)

Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??

Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.

Quote:
What evil plan do you think the US has for Ukraine?
What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?

I used to think that the USA had some resource extraction plan, or some plan to prevent the use of a currency other than the petrodollar. But the invasion of Iraq which was supposed to pay for itself in oil - never did. The oil output of Libya similarly fell, and has never been restored to its pre-war levels. Same for Sudan. If we went in for oil, we failed to get it.

So all we've done is destroy these nations' economies, pump them full of guns and other arms, cause starvation and displacement crises, reduce them to civil war and boost the most violent among them -notably jihadists, kick women down to the status of chattel, and destroy educational opportunities.

I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.

I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.

Yes I would trust the American and other western media more. Save for the more wild portions of the RT and Global Research story they have been reporting that both sides are killing. If you want an example of your bias it can be found in the fact that an arm band on the man in the video if proof enough for you, but the fact there is video of shooters in Ukrainian uniforms during the Kiev protests mean little. Of the fact that the pictures of the men in Crimea had Russian uniforms minus the badges.

When you can't come up with a solid reason other than destruction you should really take a step back. That is unless you think the US is an evil cartoon empire.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 3:21 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Interesting. I keep coming back to this out of curiosity…I've had some difficulties with Sig from time to time, mostly in relation to her extremism, and have disagreed with her probably as much as I've agreed with her. Her feelings on this issue, from only what I've read in just this thread, are a continuation of that extremism. What's interesting to me is that I never quite envisioned her as quite THAT naïve:

Quote:
What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?

I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.

I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.

I find that interesting on four points. First, how is any other nation any different, insofar as using its power where it does to achieve its own aims? Second, why does "destroy" have to come into anything…if a few people in government have the power/know-how to set things in motion for this or that reason, how does that mean the entire "USA" wants to "destroy" anything? Third, ARE those nations actually "destroyed", and do their own governments, such as they are, have anything to do with their situation, or does The USA control everything? And lastly, what about governmental ineptitude…once things are set in motion, doesn't fucking things up by the military, government, politicians, diplomatic service, secret services, etc., pretty much always follow?

As for "plan", I find that laughable. By now we all know that Afghanistan was where we should have focused after 9/11 to deal with that if we were going to, Bush/Cheney (and/or whoever's behind/beside them) wanted Iraq, so we focused there instead, for reasons having nothing to do with 9/11, with a propaganda effort bringing enough public opinion to make it feasible and, as far as I can see, with little indication of any feasible "plan".

"Evil plan" to "destroy" doesn't come into it much, for me, that's all.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 4:09 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??

Again you miss the point. Are you purposely trying to?

My references to all your links have, after several posts, shortened to the example of RT because first, that's the easiest to type, and second your thread of RT videos was the first time I saw you diving over the edge. That's the one where believed RT rather than other propaganda sources (you even called them that!) for no apparent reason other than you liked the story they were pushing.

Anyhow, you are nitpicking details and avoiding the bigger issue: I'm not criticizing your sources as much as analyzing what they say about you.

Quote:
Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.

Interesting. And who am I biased for or against? Do tell.

As to the rest of your post, what Niki said with one addition: note that the root of your argument comes down to how evil you believe the US to be. And there is your bias. You will believe any sources that paint the US as purely evil and hell-bent on destruction and dismiss any sources that don't. You also completely including the "evil" tendencies, actions, and histories of other nations.

Unlike Niki, I hadn't really known before what an extremist you can be.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 4:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

Unlike Niki, I hadn't really known before what an extremist you can be.

Signy can be pretty radical, but extremist? I suppose she can be as negative about the US as Rappy can be positive...

Anyway, after

"You just hold onto those hostages until after I'm elected & we'll give you arms out the wazoo"

I find extreme not to be very extreme any more.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 5:29 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm not criticizing your sources as much as analyzing what they say about you.

You're not much of a scientist, are you? Not into analyzing information? Hubby and I have been working as scientists for over 40 years. I think I know how validation works.

In science, information isn't judged on its "source" because the source is irrelvant if the information validated. So, you being all bent about the "source"... and "what it [supposedly] says about me"... is very revealing about YOU. What it tells me is that you really don't care about the information. You would rather assasinate character than discuss the topic at-hand. Because you really don't pay attention to the real world it tells me that you have a belief, and that you draw your truth from a bible (the western press). Real events are dismissed.

Quote:
note that the root of your argument comes down to how evil you believe the US to be. And there is your bias. You will believe any sources that paint the US as purely evil and hell-bent on destruction and dismiss any sources that don't.

And now we come to one of your (collective) essential beliefs, one that riles you up when crossed.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In science, information isn't judged on its "source" because the source is irrelevant if the information validated.

Sources count for a lot if one is not willing to do research.

Some of the stuff PN has posted is entirely true & verifiable. Just sayin'.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 5:58 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CHRIS
Then discuss the information, not the sources. Either verify it, reject it, or put it in a "not enough information to decide" bucket. But stop with the character assasination and the "see no evil" posture. Isn't that what we're always chivvying rappy with? That he puts his fingers in his ears and says "Nyah nyah nyah, I can't hear you"? This may seem harsh, but isn't that what's happening here? It seems about the same to me, anyway.

AFA PN's data... where it was true, I added it to my store of knowledge. Where it wasn't, I rejected it.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

discuss the information, not the sources. Either verify it, reject it, or put it in a "not enough information to decide" bucket.

Yeah, that's how it SHOULD work. But y'know, emotions at play, personality conflicts, stuff like that.
In court one time I was fighting a ticket and testified (with lots of photographs) that where the officer was when he aimed the radar gun was catching the trees whipping around on that windy day, not my car, and the judge asked if I was officially certified on radar guns. Like that had any bearing on WHAT I WAS SAYING. *sigh*
I should have just hired a certified expert to come in and say that Radar guns don't work right on even numbered days.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:41 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, one of the things that pissed me off was how MAL4, KPO, M52, G, and (utlimately) NIKI and I forget who-all else immediately got all personal and insulting. And yanno what? I particularly get pissed when people who are SUPPOSEDLY are thinking, rational human beings get in my grill and call me crazy, insted of taking a breath and looking at the data. I expected more. Silly me! It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:45 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, one of the things that pissed me off was how MAL4, KPO, M52, G, and (utlimately) NIKI and I forget who-all else immediately got all personal and insulting. And yanno what? I particularly get pissed when people who are SUPPOSEDLY are thinking, rational human beings get in my grill and call me crazy, insted of taking a breath and looking at the data. I expected more. Silly me! It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:48 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

M52

Then you are an evil person who is willing to "not give a fuck" when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, and you're just as bad as GWB and all of his supporters.

How does that sound to you?

Good?

Good!

Your moral position is duly noted.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:57 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52

Then you are an evil person who is willing to "not give a fuck" when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, and you're just as bad as GWB and all of his supporters.

How does that sound to you?

Good?

Good!

Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because. That shows how much thought you are putting into this.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.

A few months ago my patience just ran out and I started unloading big time on Rappywhack. A break from here helped to un-damage my calm some.
I tend to cut Left-folk slack that I don't cut for Right folk only because Left folk are generally better at bein' all naked & articulate.

But yeah, dogma's a bitch when she's in heat.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because.

M52, you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance. The United States has overturned roughly four dozen democracies since 1900. What were doing- "introducing democracy"???

In many cases, there was an asset that we were acquiring - bananas, the Panama canal, copper (Chile), oil (Iran).

But in the last five (counting Ukraine) state destructions, what the heck did we get out of that??? Other than killing a crapload of people and destabilizing entire regions? Can YOU think of a good reason? Because you're so hot to tell me how I'm not putting any thought into this, why don't YOU do it, and show me how it's done?

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because. That shows how much thought you are putting into this.

m52, I don't know if you have a clear idea of how this actually works... Signy can't assign a reasonable meaning to every U.S. action because in many cases it's really just a bunch of guys sitting around (not much if at all smarter than you and me) coming up with theories about what will happen if we THIS and what will happen if we THAT and when they figure they have it all brainworked they pass their educated deductions and opinions on to idiots that go YEAH, OKAY, THAT SOUNDS GOOD who implement this junk that usually ends up only being PARTIALLY correct if at all.
You want Signy to decode their thinking? Sorry, she'd have to be able to THINK like them to do that. That's like asking an F-18 to try to recreate exactly the flight pattern of a hang glider.

Just because is as accurate as anything else in the bigger picture. Lots of pure gambling going on behind that curtain, Dorothy.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance.

Okay, I stood up for you in my last post, so to be fair this is a bit of a personal attack. I understand your frustration, but you gotta leave stuff like this out if you want someone to listen clearly, K? ;)

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:50 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because.

M52, you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance. The United States has overturned roughly four dozen democracies since 1900. What were doing- "introducing democracy"???

In many cases, there was an asset that we were acquiring - bananas, the Panama canal, copper (Chile), oil (Iran).

But in the last five (counting Ukraine) state destructions, what the heck did we get out of that??? Other than killing a crapload of people and destabilizing entire regions? Can YOU think of a good reason? Because you're so hot to tell me how I'm not putting any thought into this, why don't YOU do it, and show me how it's done?

Okay!

Lets start with Afghanistan. That was exactly what what everyone says it was. A response to 911. Yes, the members of Al-Qaeda were originally from Saudi Arabia, but they were acting from facilities in Afghanistan with protection by the Taliban. After 911 the US was going to respond in a big way, that was certain. The biggest problem with the war in Afghanistan was that we took our eye's off of it and shifter to Iraq.

Iraq was about multiply things, but the largest were power and money. The White House backed by the Neo-Cons were convinced after and easy victory in the first Gulf War, and seeming victory in Afghanistan that they could spread pro-Western style democracies by force. Not to mention that certain people in that administration had ties to companies that made shit tons of money. Halliburton anyone?

Libya was a different take on spreading pro-western democracies. However in this case it was kicked off by the people of Libya looking to be free from an authoritarian government. The US did not take the lead in helping the rebels we let NATO do that. The US did provide much of the logistical support.

Egypt we had a democratically elected government that ended up being anything but pro-West or really good for people other than the more strictly religious Muslims in the country. This freaked the US and other allies in the region out. Seems we don't learn that just because we help a government come to power it is going to be friendly to us. So when the military coup took place it was better for US and we ignored it.

Syria was part one of the new East vs. West. We wanted Assad gone because it would take away an ally from Russia. Regardless of who was going to take his place it was pretty sure they would not be friendly to Putin. Unfortunately we did not back rebels soon enough and now you have a whole mess of Jihadists in the country.

Ukraine, this is East vs. West part two. The US and EU want the Ukraine to turn towards us. For one it will help the EU economically and second it would hurt Russia. Russia of course wants the Ukraine because it is an important region for them. Much of there military hardware is produced there and they buy a lot of Russian gas. The majority of the people in Ukraine wanted to turn to the west. Russia had a strong hand to play with them providing most of the energy to Ukraine. The Ukraine government tried to please both, it did not work. You can't be part of a free trade group and a trade union at the same time. They are mutually exclusive ideas. Problem was the people want the EU deal signed and were sick of what they see as a corrupt government.

In this chaos Putin saw an easy win with Crimea. The region was already semi-autonomous and not to happy with Kiev. In the end he knew he could take control of Kiev and nothing much would happen. Being that it is the home of the Black Sea Fleet any sanctions against them would be worth it. He knew the West would save harder sanctions encase he tried to take more.

Now with the East of Ukraine it has become clear that the rest of Ukraine is going to fight to keep the country together. Something I think they have a right to do. That has given Putin pause because he is not going to be able to annex the East in the bloodless fashion he did with Crimea.

Of course the West wants a Untied Ukraine because it will be a stronger country and will deign Russia from any more gains. The West is willing to threaten sanctions, but are not going to engage Russia in a war. Which is why your theory of the US wanting another war is off. Germany however is wavering because any economic sanctions against Russia are going to hurt them as well. The German people may not like that and since Germany is the strongest economy in the EU it may cause even more problems. The US can push harder because the sanctions would hurt us far less. They might even help with US now allowing natural gas exports. Which by the way is why fracting regulations have been slow in coming.

Now if you want you can ask why I don't get ragingly upset about all this.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 8:03 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
m52, I don't know if you have a clear idea of how this actually works... Signy can't assign a reasonable meaning to every U.S. action because in many cases it's really just a bunch of guys sitting around (not much if at all smarter than you and me)

Okay, yes you can assign some reasonable reasons for US actions. Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I. They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 8:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I.

That's a pure 'sheeple' response. Sorry, MY turn to get frustrated here. I hear this crap from every which direction, and I am so sick of it. The 'elite', the unfathomable intellects, those who deserve to rule by their very shiny nature. Bullshit. Human people is all.

Quote:
They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.

No trick to getting in power, dedication. Pure, single-minded self-motivated purpose. Intelligence is helpful but not required.
m52, you need to re-access your concept of YOUR place on this Earth. NO ONE is above you, better than. We're all just folk.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 8:41 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
m52, you need to re-access your concept of YOUR place on this Earth. NO ONE is above you, better than. We're all just folk.

That is a nice ideal, but it is not reality.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
That is a nice ideal, but it is not reality.

We all have our own realities.
I wanted a new kitchen, but damned if I'll pay some company $5000 for it, so I LEARNED carpentry & plumbing to do it my own self for a lot less (okay a little leak in the kitchen sink that I hadda take care of twice now, but small concern).
I was bullied in Jr High, so I LEARNED Martial Arts to kick their asses.
I wanted a phaser from a Star Trek movie that is unavailable, so I LEARNED how to mould and cast my own sculpt from scratch.
I cut my knuckle open with an X-acto knife (to the bone), but didn't bother going to the ER because I'd LEARNED enough about Human anatomy in Art classes to know I hadn't severed an extensor tendon and that it could be serviced with butterfly bandages and a pressure wrap.

And I'm just an average moron.

Please. Don't buy into that elite BS. Almost anyone can be good at stuff if they just want to real bad & learn how.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 9:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just to say "Niki...immediately got all personal and insulting". No, I saw some damned personally insulting stuff posted by you as the whole purpose of this thread, in post after post. I posed a question that has bothered me before; it's been laid to rest. I said I thought you'd gone off the rails, which I stand by, just from what I read in this thread--there's no WAY I'm going to get involved in the thread I assume this has all been about. I also said I've disagreed with you previously and have observed what I believe to be some pretty extreme stuff from you. I stand by all of that, but the one who started right out being personal and insulting, and lumped me in with everyone else despite my not having even read or been involved in what pissed you off, is you, nobody else. THIS THREAD was deliberately written to be very, very clearly and immediately personally insulting to a whole bunch of people and has continued that way.

Also, I've been very clear many times that I don't like the actions of our government on many fronts AND I'VE TAKEN PERSONAL ACTION to do what I can to make a difference; to lump me as some kind of blind ideologue pretty much says everything that needs saying about you, not me. Thus I'd ask you to leave me out of this, only I think you're so far gone now you can't distinguish much of anything.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 9:16 PM

DALEK!

I agree that people can become quite good at a number of things, but that does not mean they are. I know many people who are smarter than myself at a few things. They continue to get better. No matter how much I learn or how much effort I expend they have more experience and a head start. They are always going to be above me. Luckily most of them I consider mentors.

Other things some people are never going to be good at. I have played and studied chess on and off for years. Beginners after a few weeks beat me. For what ever reason I'm never going to be a good chess player. On the other hand I'm a pretty good poker player. I can win tables in online games at a pretty good rate.

All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.

No, they don't. We are puzzle pieces and some are good at fitting one way and others are good at fitting another. Each according to his or her strengths. I can't do math for shit, but I can figure out angles in a sculpt almost without trying. My Son can do both. But he can't kick as high as I can. We're all different. And the dudes that determine the history of this planet are just regular people playing on their strengths and trying to compensate for their weaknesses.
If you see it another way, you automatically condemn yourself to relative meaninglessness, IMO. And you miss the tapestry that is Humanity for the compartmentalized cubicles of the expectations of your 'betters'.
I do not hold to that.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:05 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.
No, they don't. We are puzzle pieces and some are good at fitting one way and others are good at fitting another. Each according to his or her strengths. I can't do math for shit, but I can figure out angles in a sculpt almost without trying. My Son can do both. But he can't kick as high as I can. We're all different. And the dudes that determine the history of this planet are just regular people playing on their strengths and trying to compensate for their weaknesses.
If you see it another way, you automatically condemn yourself to relative meaninglessness, IMO. And you miss the tapestry that is Humanity for the compartmentalized cubicles of the expectations of your 'betters'.
I do not hold to that.

Those straights that world leaders are playing on are major reason they are world leaders. Most people don't have that in them to raise to that level. Yes, they have weaknesses, and may not be better in some respects than you and me, but when it comes to what they do they are the top.

As far as them being smarter than you and I when it comes to world politics they are if for no other reason they have more information to work with. We never get the information they get.

The way I see it is that my life has meaning because I'm living it. I know that it is very likely my mark on the world as a whole will be very small if there is one at all. That does not mean I don't try. In the end it will not bother me. I'll die and not care about anything.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
We never get the information they get.

But if we DID, we would make choices no worse than they, and quite possibly better.
I've always felt that people take the path of least resistance. What's easiest for their abilities to handle. Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:32 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Just to say "Niki...immediately got all personal and insulting". No, I saw some damned personally insulting stuff posted by you as the whole purpose of this thread, in post after post.

I said I thought you'd gone off the rails, which I stand by, just from what I read in this thread

I also said I've disagreed with you previously and have observed what I believe to be some pretty extreme stuff from you. I stand by all of that, but the one who started right out being personal and insulting, and lumped me in with everyone else despite my not having even read or been involved in what pissed you off, is you, nobody else.

THIS THREAD was deliberately written to be very, very clearly and immediately personally insulting to a whole bunch of people and has continued that way.

Thus I'd ask you to leave me out of this, only I think you're so far gone now you can't distinguish much of anything.

For YOU to say all that to SIGGY took courage. I'm more than a little impressed. But then again, I'm just a "sick fuck".

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
But then again, I'm just a "sick fuck".

Ain't we all just.
Except Rappy... he's on a special level...

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:51 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
We never get the information they get.
But if we DID, we would make choices no worse than they, and quite possibly better.
I've always felt that people take the path of least resistance. What's easiest for their abilities to handle. Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.

I don't believe we would make better choices. Perhaps some people would but most....not so much.

Would you be willing to make a decision that undercut an issue you feel passionately about in order to secure a deal to keep a powerful group on your side? You might need there help later.

It's about more than just making the best decision based on what you know, but how other will react and what they might do.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I don't believe we would make better choices. Perhaps some people would but most....not so much.

Okay, count yourself out if you feel inferior, but I would make better choices IMO. Ones based on LONG term solutions. Solutions that would not benefit the elite rulers, but the masses. No one would want America destroyed if America was a problem solver and not a problem creator. The demand for short term returns are what's killing the world presently. And we are a significant contributor to that mindset. Competition is for Olympics, not Human lives.
Evil exists in no small part due to a disconnect from Humanity. To show the world a better way out of darkness would only benefit us all.
That said, child molesters and peeps that talk in the theatre should be killed. Politely.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 11:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You know what I find strange? All the people who looked at the other thread and said - in so many words - I don't know. I can't tell. And with all that non-knowledge and non-perception immediately - and without even checking out the merits of the information - IMMEDIATELY as the VERY FIRST response branded Signy crazy. Extreme. Drifting. PN. And criticized the supposed sources, because, apparently, direct information is trivial but trusted authority is all.

I very carefully re-read the posts and reposted the responses just to be sure. Go back and check it out if you don't believe me.

If you REALLY DON'T KNOW if the information is good - a thing you all REPEATEDLY INSISTED ON - how can you tell if it's crazy? I mean - don't you all listen to your selves - at all?

There's a whole bunch of people I USED to think were fact-based. No more. You couldn't raise valid FACT-BASED objections to information. So you immediately went on a personal attack and dimissed it from consideration. You were shameful.

So, I'm glad I now know that all about you.

It'll be interesting to see if you introspect at all or defensively dig deeper into your cherished beliefs.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Sunday, May 11, 2014 11:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:... when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, .

You see, that never actually happened, so ...

Anyways.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

You see, that never actually happened, so ...

Sorry, try again. This has been debunked. Once again, you are demonstrably in error, and ensconced in the endless anti-whom-you-hate bullshit. Feel free to go on, and prove yourself more the idiot than you have already (Heh, if that's even possible at this point).
You proved me right here.
Thanks.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

That which never happened cannot have been debunked.

Sorry, you are the weakest link.

Goodbye.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Is that a promise? Please?

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Is that a promise? Please?

We can dream, 1kiki...

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:41 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Well for what its worth, my 10 cents is that there are no angels in RWD. Everyone can get mean and nasty from time to time. I know I've been told to fuck off and that I'm being a dick on a number of occasions, and that's from people I'd normally agree with. Interestingly, its happened when I've been critical of the US and when I've defended the US. I'm sure I've been passive aggresively awful from time to time as well. So there you have it.

There's nothing quite as nutty as trading insults with a person you will never meet. Imagine saying this stuff to someone's face??? Sheesh, anonymity leds us get away with some bad shit sometimes.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 1:38 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.

There she is, Miss America...

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Monday, May 12, 2014 2:06 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BRENDA
I have no idea. I know a number of Canadians, who I talk with in-depth by phone or email. One of them is an NDP apparatchik, and the NDP's position (and of course, the person who had glued himself into some minor function in the Ontario NDP) is about on-par with US Democrats and liberals: stomach-churning hypocrisy.

Another, who is a retired journalist and who has lived in Israel, Egypt and Nicaragua, is madder than hell at the USA, at the NDP, and at the current conservative government. A third is an international human rights lawyer, a fourth works for UNESCO. Their reaction is about the same as the retired reporter.

Also, I like this website
http://www.globalresearch.ca/latest-news-and-top-stories

So I guess the Canadian government is stuck to the US policy, but the people (at least the ones I know) feel a lot differently.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 2:23 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Okay, yes you can assign some reasonable reasons for US actions. Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I. They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.

M52, they're not smarter than you and I. Heck, look at GWB... he just did what Dick told him!

But what they are is well-connected, and they're (for the most part) prepared to be far more evil than you or I could ever stomach.

AFA all of these great causes... we (our White House) SAYS it's going to make a nation democratic, or that we have a responsibility to protect (R2P, the latest catch-phrase) but what ARE they going to say to the public, really??? That they would rather see Ukraine or Syria or Egypt or Libya or Iraq (or Iran) torn to shreds than ... what?

Quote:
Would you be willing to make a decision that undercut an issue you feel passionately about in order to secure a deal to keep a powerful group on your side? You might need there help later.

No. When you start trading away your moral authority like that, eventually you stand for nothing.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 2:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Niki, you didn't get insulting in the previous thread, but what you did here...

Quote:
I'm not about to read what I've kind of guessed is the thread that started Sig going off the rails, but since Sig started this thread, and did so as a way to say FU to people here, I'm not going to start a new thread to ask my question, I'll do it here.

So, you haven't bothered to read the other thread, but you've already decided I "went off the rails", apparently for no reason at all? So, of course, I'm not supposed to be upset about being tried in absentia, so to speak?

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Monday, May 12, 2014 7:16 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52, they're not smarter than you and I. Heck, look at GWB... he just did what Dick told him!

But what they are is well-connected, and they're (for the most part) prepared to be far more evil than you or I could ever stomach.

AFA all of these great causes... we (our White House) SAYS it's going to make a nation democratic, or that we have a responsibility to protect (R2P, the latest catch-phrase) but what ARE they going to say to the public, really??? That they would rather see Ukraine or Syria or Egypt or Libya or Iraq (or Iran) torn to shreds than ... what?

Than intact and strongly supporting whom we see a rivals. That is not hard to understand. They don't want those countries torn apart, they want them in our corner. If they can't have that, than they at least don't want them helping other countries that might threaten us in some fashion.

Quote:
No. When you start trading away your moral authority like that, eventually you stand for nothing.

Which would make you a wholly ineffective world leader. I disagree that you would stand for nothing, but sometimes you have to do things you don't like to succeed in the end.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 11:15 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

M52

You apprently are an Ayn Randian? You think the world is a meritocracy and people got where they are because they're so specially talented and capable? Is that it?

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 11:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Than intact and strongly supporting whom we see a rivals.

So, let's be clear here... you mean Russia, and possibly China. Correct?

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:07 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno how the parent says I'm not angry, I'm disappointed?

Well, that's not me. I'm both disappointed AND angry.

I don't expect to be believed. In fact, I would be rather disturbed if you all just took my word for events that I post about.

However, I would hope that you liberals would give me enough credit to at least look things up for yourselves. What I've discovered from your recent behavior, however, is that instead of looking at the evidence as it stands you seem to think that if you can argue with ME you'll somehow make the facts "go away". There is hardly a smidgen of objectivity or intellectual honesty to share amongst yourselves.

I'm not your intellectual errand-boy, to be finding facts and information that you're either too lazy or too propagandized to look up for yourselves. I'm not your political whipping-boy either. If you want to keep an eye on events, you have to put in SOME effort yourselves. Don't expect to stay undisturbed in your comfy-cozy cocoon and still be able to perceive truth, because yanno what? The truth is sometimes hard, and it often runs counter to the narrative that we like to tell ourselves. So bird-dog the truth yourselves, or stay uninformed; it's on you-

not me.

If you think this is a giant FU, you're right. If you think it's undeserved, you're wrong.

Well, that's a lot of generalization wrapped in a tantrum.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

Americans killed under Obama due to "intelligence failures": 4

Americans killed under Bush due to "intelligence failures": 7000+

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:27 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Well, that's a lot of generalization wrapped in a tantrum.

It refers to another thread which I presume you haven't read.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57980

The very first thing that M52 wrote, without even bothering to examine the information, was...

Quote:
SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.

RAPPY actually addressed the point

JONGSSTRAW wrote

Quote:
Jackboots and truncheons and black shirts on fascists
Bloody brass knuckles and newly drawn death lists
Brown paper mail bombs tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things ...

and followed up with lots of offensive pictures.

MIKER

Quote:
I love the humor and wit behind your use of the Julie Andrews song, but I keep seeing this ugly thread revived by those who find It Ludacris.

Because brutality is hilarious, but pointing it out is ludacris. I should be getting apologies, but I'm sure I never will.

KPO

Quote:
This fire was a very sad and tragic incident, and I hope the full truth comes out, and the people to blame on both sides are punished for their actions on this day.

Because, yanno, the separatists shot, strangled, and burnt each other

MAL4 wrote

Quote:
I agree. Sig, you've gone over some kind of edge with this issue. Those pictures are horrible, for sure. Somebody did some really bad stuff. You act as if posters who disagree with you at all are denying the crimes, which is disingenuous of you. No one is arguing that crimes weren't committed, or that those crimes were not abominable. What is highly suspect is how you assume you know who committed the crimes based on a website even you have admitted to be biased. You will not stand for anyone to doubt the biased and unproven conclusion that RT is pushing, which speaks a lot about your own bias.

The funny thing was, the pictures that were posted weren't even from RT, and MAL4 hadn't even bothered to parse the information.

-----------------

Anyway, the unbalance that was evidenced in this thread wasn't only from me. Without even considering the information, all I got was attack/ attack/ attack, even by supposedly fact-driven liberals. I reacted, and yanno what? I'm still pissed, and IMHO rightfully so.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 12:48 PM