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Originally posted by Barclay:
I think it's important to have alternatives out there. It's definitely time for something to change.

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Originally posted by Conscience:
Ralph Nader...You pinko douche!

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Peroutka might be a better president if you want a Christian theocracy. Most CP members are Christian fundamentalists. Nothing wrong with that. But people should be aware that what they stand for ultimately is a small government founded on evangelical/fundamentalist Christian morality. In other words, a Christian theocracy.

Now if that is what you believe in, vote for them by all means. Personally, I shudder at any kind of theocracy.

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They're fundies?

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Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
If anybody else knows of any other alternative parties, please post links to their sites and possible platforms.

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
non-candidate Romney first?

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The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.

Jefferson later went to war with the Barbary states.

An image of the letter from Adams and Jefferson to John Jay can be found in Thomas Jefferson Papers Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651-1827, pp. 430-432. I can't link it directly, but you can go to http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/mtjhtml/mtjser1.html and then click on "From January 2, 1786" and then go to page 431.


In 1786, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson met with Arab diplomats from Tunisia, who were conducting terror raids and piracy against American ships (Barbary Pirates). Writing to John Jay, Thomas Jefferson described what he saw as the main issue and the reason why they were attacking Americans who had done them no harm. The following quote is from Thomas Jefferson....

“We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. THE AMBASSADOR ANSWERED US THAT IT WAS FOUNDED ON THE LAWS OF THEIR PROPHET, THAT IT WAS WRITTEN IN THEIR KORAN, THAT ALL NATIONS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR AUTHORITY WERE SINNERS, THAT IT WAS THEIR RIGHT AND DUTY TO MAKE WAR UPON THEM WHEREVER THEY COULD BE FOUND, AND TO MAKE SLAVES OF ALL THEY COULD TAKE AS PRISONERS, AND THAT EVERY MUSSELMAN (MUSLIM) WHO SHOULD BE SLAIN IN BATTLE WAS SURE TO GO TO PARADISE"

Hhmmmm, history does have a way of rhyming, doesn't it??

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Mark Twain


That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters

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William Eaton (1764-1811)

“Considered as a nation, they are deplorably wretched, because they have no property in the soil to inspire an ambition to cultivate it. They are abject slaves to the despotism of their government, and they are humiliated by tyranny, the worst of all tyrannies, the despotism of priestcraft. They live in more solemn fear of the frowns of a bigot who has been dead and rotten above a thousand years, than of the living despot whose frown would cost them their lives. The ignorance, superstitious tradition and civil and religious tyranny, which depress the human mind here, exclude improvement of every kind.”

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Churchill

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

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John Quincy Adams (1767-1848), the sixth President of the United States (1825–1829).

“The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.”

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Jefferson had this to say about Islam in a passage regarding Calvinism:

Verily I say these are the false shepherds foretold as to enter not by the door into the sheepfold, but to climb up some other way. They are mere usurpers of the Christian name, teaching a counter-religion made up of the deliria of crazy imaginations, as foreign from Christianity as is that of Mahomet.

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Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881) was a Scottish satirical writer, essayist, historian and teacher during the Victorian era.
... I must say, it [the Koran] is as toilsome reading as I ever undertook. A wearisome confused jumble, crude, incondite; endless iterations, long-windedness, entanglement; most crude, incondite; — insupportable stupidity, in short! Nothing but a sense of duty could carry any European through the Koran ... It is the confused ferment of a great rude human soul; rude, untutored, that cannot even read; but fervent, earnest, struggling vehemently to utter itself in words ... We said "stupid:" yet natural stupidity is by no means the character of Mahomet's Book; it is natural uncultivation rather. The man has not studied speaking; in the haste and pressure of continual fighting, has not time to mature himself into fit speech ... The man was an uncultured semi-barbarous Son of Nature, much of the Bedouin still clinging to him: we must take him for that. But for a wretched Simulacrum, a hungry Impostor without eyes or heart ... we will not and cannot take him. Sincerity, in all senses, seems to me the merit of the Koran; what had rendered it precious to the wild Arab men ... Curiously, through these incondite masses of tradition, vituperation, complaint, ejaculation in the Koran, a vein of true direct insight, of what we might almost call poetry, is found straggling

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John Quincy Adams wrote about the Islamic prophet Mohammed:

In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust, by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE. [emphasis in the original]

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What it boils down to is this:

Believe in who you want. Worship in what way you want. Eat whatever tasty foods you want or follow your religious dietary strictures, but if your religious beliefs run counter to the set of ethics embedded in our laws and Constitution ...

ie your believe in human sacrifice, in selling/mutilating your girl-children, or in taking over the government with your religion ...

then your crazy-ass belongs in jail, or in deportation.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
... but if your religious beliefs run counter to the set of ethics embedded in our laws and Constitution ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What it boils down to is this:

Believe in who you want. Worship in what way you want. Eat whatever tasty foods you want or follow your religious dietary strictures, but if your religious beliefs run counter to the set of ethics embedded in our laws and Constitution ...

ie your believe in human sacrifice, in selling/mutilating your girl-children, or in taking over the government with your religion ...

then your crazy-ass belongs in jail, or in deportation.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Clearly there are people here who know not what they are talking of, they just parrort what someone on the CNN ConfusedNoiseNetwork says or repeat the words of some rich journalist who takes a pay from the Qatar diplomat at the UN


My recommendation is this

Don't listen to red
Don't listen to blue
Don't listen to the right
Don't listen to the left

Go out if you are interested, but don't be foolish and so innocent go and meet muslims, observe the different ones and maybe be near them and read about muslims and islam yourself and find your own voice and own conclusion
also check those who quit
http://ex-muslim.org.uk/
http://formermuslimsunited.org/apostasy-from-islam/
Meet the Apostates the Ex-Muslims....meet the people who have to deal with expansion of Islamic culture in Hindu India, in East Europe, in the Philippines, In Thailand....
Go out and buy the Koran or a translated copy of it, then buy the Hadith and Sunnah...if you can't buy it download it
Then read the words of founding fathers and America's icons, people like Jefferson, Adams maybe even words of iconic people like Churchill or Mark Twain....
...it may take some weeks of reading and study, it might be boring reading as you sit constipated.... but you will be better after this, come back and then post about Islam

and post if it can co-exist with Western democracy

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