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US evacuates embassy in Libya amid clashes

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've already formed an impression of you, and it's not too far away from rappy.

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Sig - you really don't know me. Or anyone else here on this board, it seems.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Sig - you really don't know me. Or anyone else here on this board, it seems.

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I know you're selfish, to the point of being self-destructive. I know you argue for a system that would keep your wealth intact, even tho it's dysfunctional and destined to crash every few years because of the impoverishment of the PAYING CUSTOMER class. I know that you believe ridiculous things, because you've claimed ownership of many really stupid ideas already. What else is there to know?

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G, I'm starting to worry about YOU. Do you feel no compassion for the lives that have been irrevocably snuffed out, or made intolerable? Are you really such a selfish pig that you really don't care about so much death and regression, because the victims are too colored, too Muslim, too poor, or too socialist? Cause yanno, THAT'S the impression I'm getting of you. Comfortable. Willing to claw your way up onto the shoulders of drowning people, so you won't be inconvenienced by having to acknowledge that anyone's life (other than yours and other comfortable people "like you") is worth anything.

Do you live in a democracy?

Well then, why aren't YOU making a fuss?

I've already formed an impression of you, and it's not too far away from rappy. And well-deserved, as far as I can tell.

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How do you know I'm not making a fuss? Please answer that.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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How do you know I'm not making a fuss? Please answer that.

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Because you're constantly telling people not to make a fuss? Because you characterize my concern about people getting killed en masse as "just whining"? Because you're always on the side of shutting people up?

Anyway, I got stuff to do.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Our embassy in that prosperous secular nation that we "didn't destroy" (according to some here) is being evacuated

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US evacuates embassy in Libya amid clashes

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http://news.yahoo.com/us-evacuates-embassy-libya-amid-clashes-11564546
5--politics.html

Yes, indeed! We sure improved THAT nation's future by bombing it, didn't we?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
G, I'm starting to worry about YOU. Do you feel no compassion for the lives that have been irrevocably snuffed out, or made intolerable? Are you really such a selfish pig that you really don't care about so much death and regression, because the victims are too colored, too Muslim, too poor, or too socialist?

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....1kiki
Sig has a point. The only people here showing concern for the Libyans - WHO THE US BOMBED BY POLICY - is her. Everyone else seems to shrug it off.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Sorry but your allegations against more reasonable minds in these threads are baseless.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Sorry but your allegations against more reasonable minds in these threads are baseless.

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They're not baseless. You are being hyper-reactive here. You too easily get provoked into the us vs. them mantra that the world military industrial complex enjoys. If one focuses tightly on what's wrong or evil with U.S. policy & actions to the exclusion of all other equally evil policies & actions of other powers, that does not make them WRONG. You need to adjust your logic chip, my friend, and get that chip off your shoulder. YES, 'they' are guilty of heinous shit, just like 'we' are.

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Should have left it to Gaddafi then? Think if he had put down the revolution things would have been much better? Might have been prosperous and secular, but not too comfortable for anyone speaking outside the party line.

That's one thing that I've always found funny about you. You support and defend regimes that would have you in jail - or worse - in a minute if you ranted against them like you do the U.S. and the Western Democracies.

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You are so consistently wrong it's amazing. I'm not dismissing Signym's concerns, just her shrill preaching. Acting high and mighty on a forum with about 20 people seems a bit over the top to me. Do you think it helps the worlds victims to post your outrage on FFF.net?

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I find it incredible you of all people support a dictatorial way of life as long as there is food and free education open both to men and women.

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…Sig
I find it incredible that you support a dictatorial way of life WITHOUT water, food, medicine, and education.

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….Sig
Because, if you look at all of the places where we've meddled recently, the people have not only wound up poorer (if not dead), they've also wound up significantly LESS FREE. Especially women. Or are you going to tell me that ISIS is an improvement over Saddam, and that al Qaida is an improvement over Assad?

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…Sig
This isn't just a recent trend, though, as historians have counted our overthrow of over 40 democratically-elected governments since 1900.

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….Sig
We have a fascination with bombs, missiles and guns. Somehow, we have the impression that we'll improve a country if we destroy it.

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I don’t support a dictatorial way of life period.

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I see no evidence of that

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….Sig
Why do our bases protect Saudi Arabia, which isn't a quaint little harmless monarchy but a functioning dictatorship which turns women into chattel? Why did we support the "mujahideen" in Afghanistan, and al Qaida in Syria?

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…Sig
Are you only in favor of dictatorships when we "get something" out of it, like cheap oil? Is your love of freedom conditioned on how much it might cost you? 'Cause, yanno, if you're against dictatorship, be against it, consistently

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I see no evidence of that

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With detail
http://www.alternet.org/story/39416/america%27s_100_years_of_overthrow

List, to about 1999
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I see no evidence of that

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With detail
http://www.alternet.org/story/39416/america%27s_100_years_of_overthrow

List, to about 1999
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

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Both your links are to opinions by Robert Sherrill and William Blum. They are statements about events in history without sources listed by researched history books or anyone else. Why do you think this is in any proof of your claims?

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Are [sic] bases in Saudi Arabia are to establish a place from which we can respond quickly to trouble in that region.

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There are still over a million people living today in this country alone who fought in WW11.

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They also have oil. We need the oil and if we overthrow the government there you would bitch about that to.

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So we do business with who is running the place.

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We still push them to change their ways. So be it gently.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Both your links are to opinions by Robert Sherrill and William Blum. They are statements about events in history without sources listed by researched history books or anyone else. Why do you think this is in any proof of your claims?

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Because I cross-checked these lists (which were linked as a convenient starting point) against other sources, and I lived thru a number of them and know about them from personal history. Good enough?

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Or why it matters to you that Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship if all have free health care.

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Let's not drift from the main point as you like to do when challenged. You still have not provided proof that the United States was responsible for overthrowing 40 democracies.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Libyans had significantly more freedom than Saudis, and Libyan women's freedom was incomparably better than Saudis. Now, they have significantly less.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Let's not drift from the main point as you like to do when challenged. You still have not provided proof that the United States was responsible for overthrowing 40 democracies.

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Yanno what? I've been down this road before. I posted background on all of this several years ago for GEEZER, when even the liberals were begging me to stop. It took me many hours of looking, posting over three days. In the end, of course, none of the information... declassified memos, leaked briefings, historic records... was ever good enough. GEEZER kept on believing what he wanted to believe.

At some future time, I will see if I can find those posts.

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I don't quite see where you have the right to deny Libyans the right to chose for themselves or decide if they would have been better off if they had not risen up against a dictator. They did chose to do so without any prodding from us.

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…Sig

Horse puckies. VERY early on, I heard a glancing reference on NPR that this whole thing was somewhat tribal, that people in the Qaddafi clan and region received somewhat more favorable treatment than elsewhere. That this group represented approximately 30-40% of the population of Libya, a minority, but a significant one. This would be like Ukraine, where 30% of the population could be thought of as being anti-Kiev.

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…Sig
Despite the fact that the fighting went on for quite some time, indicating that not ALL Libyans wanted the future that the EU, USA, and the jihadists had mapped out for Libya ... as far as the US press was concerned, there was only one side... the jihadist side. Even so-called leftist news (specifically Amy Goodman and Juan Cole) only reported breathlessly with the so-called rebels. Nobody ever reported from the other side, and nobody ever reported what would happen to the women of that nation.

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…Sig
I don't think you can claim to know what "the Libyans" wanted, since they weren't a unified group... as you can now see from all of the fighting going on.

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