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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

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British cops are not armed, except with the baton thingee. Australian cops are armed, but dont tend to have the same aggression as Americans. But then we dont have a heavily armed population.

You know who is over represented in our prison population - men - they account for 98 % of all prisoners, which lead me to believe that men as a community are not interested in bettering themselves, and are destructive as a gender and they clearly want easy fixes to improve their lot in life.

Nothing will change so long as the men think it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their lives that are being destroyed, not women's. It's their lives that are disrupted not women. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

You know who is over represented in our prison population - men - they account for 98 % of all prisoners, which lead me to believe that men as a community are not interested in bettering themselves, and are destructive as a gender and they clearly want easy fixes to improve their lot in life.

Nothing will change so long as the men think it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their lives that are being destroyed, not women's. It's their lives that are disrupted not women. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
You may think the cost of bread is higher

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

and one of the reasons I think body cameras are a good idea - shit, *I* wouldn't mind one, cause it would be more efficient than having to whip out and boot up my Vivitar DVR410 when something needs documenting, and I train all my people to behave as if they were on-camera the whole time they're on duty, which is only sensible in that we have a couple of our own and you never know when someone with a cellphone or webcam is going to point it at you, so the simple solution is DON'T DO SHIT YOU DON'T WANT ON TAPE...

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Third, and as Reihan Salam argues today in Slate, every single law enforcement officer should be required to wear body-worn cameras, or BWCs; and every single law enforcement agency should adopt a protocol for the operation of these cameras that strictly regulates when the cameras can be turned off by officers. Bystanders with cameras have changed policing forever. Witness the public outrage after the release of videos that depicted the beating of Marlene Pinnock and the chokehold death of Eric Garner. Police officers should have cameras, too.

BWCs promote transparency in policing, they hold officers and the public accountable for their actions, and they reduce civil litigation. The police department of Rialto, California, has 115 sworn officers. In 2009 it became the first known police department to utilize BWCs. A study that analyzed the use of BWCs in Rialto showed that use of force incidents dropped by 59 percent, and that civilian complaints about police misconduct decreased by 87.5 percent. Those numbers are staggering. The benefit to police and the public of recording police interactions clearly justifies its costs. Even the ACLU has concluded that BWCs assist in holding law enforcement more accountable to the communities that they serve.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.

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" Now, tell me , Dr. Quincy, what does that suggest, forensically, about the positions and actions of the police officer and the deceased at the moment of the shooting?"In the eye, out the jaw, and in the collarbone? No powder burns?

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I am scratching my head over how it is humanly possible to be as clueless as the St. Louis County and Ferguson police departments. To make one mistake is understandable but to have EVERYTHING you do be a complete fuck up is astounding.

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If you watched some truly jaw-dropping Vines of tear-gassing and smoke-bomb-throwing from Ferguson this week, chances are they came from Antonio French, the social-media-loving St. Louis alderman who's been spending lots of time with the protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, since the shooting of Michael Brown.

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Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- An independent autopsy into the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, provides "ample" evidence to support the arrest of the police officer who shot him, family attorney Daryl Parks said Monday at a news conference.

Parks was particularly concerned about gunshots that medical examiners hired by the family indicate came from behind and above.

"Why would he be shot in the very top of his head, a 6-foot-4 man?" Parks asked. "Makes no sense."

The autopsy could support witnesses' suggestions that Brown was holding his hands up in the air, said Shawn Purcell, who assisted in the autopsy. But other scenarios are possible, said Dr. Michael Baden, who supervised the inquiry.
A diagram from the autopsy shows entry and exit wounds.


But nothing in the autopsy suggested that Brown had engaged in a struggle, Baden said. Police have said that Brown reached into Officer Darren Wilson's car in a tussle over his gun.

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CNN) -- By calling National Guard troops into Ferguson, Missouri, authorities are taking the situation "to the opposite extreme of community policing," a former FBI assistant director says.

Tom Fuentes, a CNN law enforcement analyst, notes that just a few days ago, authorities were out on the streets shaking hands with marchers. Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri State Highway Patrol "was like Gandhi, promising to ensure their safety," Fuentes said.

But growing violence -- amid protests over the shooting death of unarmed teen Michael Brown by a police officer -- changed the situation.

"Given these deliberate, coordinated and intensifying violent attacks on lives and property in Ferguson, I am directing the highly capable men and women of the Missouri National Guard ... in restoring peace and order to this community," Gov. Jay Nixon said in a statement Monday.

Police in the Ferguson area, just like many all over the country, have military equipment, which they used last week. So why bring in the Guard at all?

"You don't want extremely tired, fatigued, overtaxed police officers out there day after day, night after night," Fuentes said. And state patrol officers who came in from out of town and are staying hotels, working around the clock, are surely getting fatigued as well, he said.
New video shows moments after shooting
Stunning images of unrest in Ferguson
Ferguson and race relations in America

"You don't need more military equipment; it's more of a manpower issue."

But there are other reasons it may make sense to replace police on the scene, analysts say.

Members of the National Guard may better follow a "unified chain of command," said Jason Fritz, an Army veteran and senior editor of War on the Rocks, which analyzes national security issues.

In this case, that could be a big improvement. "I've never seen such a disjointed police effort as this," Fuentes said. Emphasis mine. NOBC

Nixon said the Guard will assist Col. Ron Replogle, head of the State Highway Patrol, "in restoring peace and order to this community."

If military police are among the Guard troops, they'll have special training in crowd control that may help, Fritz says.

Fuentes rejects that idea, saying National Guard troops' training does not prepare them for situations like this. "It's not their mission to do local law enforcement," he said.

But Fuentes and Fritz agree on another big reason it might make sense to bring in the National Guard: Residents are fed up with the police.

Marchers have accused police of responding with disproportionate violence against a mostly peaceful crowd. And residents have described protesters helping protect stores from being looted while police did nothing.


Police also infuriated protesters by releasing a video that they said shows Michael Brown involved in a convenience store robbery -- even though police themselves have said it does not relate to the police officer having stopped Brown as he was walking down the street.

By bringing in National Guard troops, Nixon is moving both Ferguson and St. Louis County police out of the way.

"That might be enough," Fritz said.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.

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I don't see any place where I suggested that. You got a quote? Or is that one of those things "you lefties always do"?

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
WeWitless News update--
Latest news-- Gov. orders National Guard deployed in Ferguson. ( from the headline over on CNN.com)

Le'see here. "Militarized policing" didn't work, so the Missouri Highway Patrol took over, commanded by a black guy, with a softer approach. That didn't work out either. SO now they've called out the flat-out military.

" Well, goddammit, Bubba, we ain't shot down ANY of them "BLACK community FOLKS" (We usedta call 'em somethin' diff'rent, back in the Good Old Days.) yet fer riotin' in the streets. Just one fer walkin' in it. When we gonna? Huh? Huh?"
"Purty quick now, Cletus. Maybe we oughtta reactivate thuh Klan-- that kep' them uppity troublemakers under control fer quite a spell."
"Dam' straight, Bubbba. Thass whhut the 'Mperial Grand Dragon Wizzard sez."

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.

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I don't see any place where I suggested that. You got a quote? Or is that one of those things "you lefties always do"?

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Yo, Rappenfuhrer I know you SUCK , especially at answering follow up questions when challenged.

But are you planning to answer this one?

You seem to be accusing me of suggesting something. I claim that I did not do that, and asked for you to back up the accusation.

You planning to answer this one, or you just hoping it'll go away. ?

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Were any cigars found?

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?

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The surveillance tapes supposedly shows Michael Brown “robbing” a Ferguson convenience store market. But in spite of the fact that the “robbery” was carried out without the brandishing of a weapon, and in spite of the fact that this was really more a case of petty theft shoplifting, this Friday, for the first time, the owners of the store have said that they never said they believed Michael Brown was the individual who stole the item from their store.

In fact, while the owners are speaking out through an attorney about the surveillance video, the mainstream, corporate media are largely ignoring everything they said, pretending that this video definitively identifies Michael Brown as the strong arm shoplifter.


The owners claim that this is a claim the police have come up with on their own. For his part, Dorian Johnson, a witness to the shooting of Michael Brown, has reportedly confessed to being with Brown in the convenient store. But for now, that has not been corroborated by the store owner, employees or eye witnesses. As well, we are not hearing this from Johnson himself, so a number of questions remain.

Through their attorney, the owner of the store also even dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911. They say that a customer inside the store made the call. This is pretty strange if this was indeed a “robbery”.

As well, in addition to clarifying that they never said they believed, nor identified the suspect with Michael Brown, they claimed that the St. Louis County issued the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday, based on the police claiming that Brown fit the description of the person in the video… the person who the owners and employees of the store were not even going to call the police on. Again, the owner clarifies that neither the management, nor any employee ever identified Brown as the suspect in that video.

They simply never said they believed that, this was a claim made by the police alone. So the real question is why the media has been taking the word of the police on this matter, even over the word of the eye witnesses and the store owner?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

At this point, what the hell difference does it make?
The kid got shot 6 times - twice in the head - WTF was that cop thinking?
There is no crime in the world that could warrant being shot 6 times - not jaywalking, not shoplifting a handful of cigarillos.

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And we're supposed to buy that shit from Breitbart, the same shitheads who posted a pic of a protestor throwing a tear gas grenade BACK at the cops while insisting it was a fuckin molotov ?
Riiiiight.

And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tox results still have to come in too

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Also, there was a guy caught on a cell phone video, after the shooting, saying that M.B. actually came BACK and was charging the officer. It was a casual conversation, caught on audio, shortly after the shooting, but before all the ruckus had taken place.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Were any cigars found?

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OMG ! Nancy Drew, you've done it ! You've cracked the case !!!

Never mind that lawyer for the accomplice has already identified both males as being the ones who were in the store, and robbed ( he corrected himself and said - TOOK ) the cigars.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/08/15/Lawyer-Confirms-Brown
-Took-Cigars-From-Store

Good grief.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:



I heard one girl swear that Brown wasn't wearing the same clothes as he was in the video, and that the cops had " photo shopped " the video.

Now hold up a sec. Why would the cops go to all the trouble of photo shopping a security cam video ( I guess they have Industrial Light and Magic talent down at the Ferguson P.D., huh ?) and not have him wearing the same clothes as when he was shot, just a few minutes later. Even though the lawyer for the accomplice admits that the 2 in the video cam were in fact his client and the deceased.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Up until that point, all of the cigars are visibly accounted for and behind the counter.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


quote somebody else, Maybe FREM? NOBC added this, it's not quoted from RAP.
E-T-A Not Frem. Shiny GG. Sorry, Frem. BAck to the quote...

E-T-A some more. found the ORIGINAL post again. It was FREM. NOBC sez: "Hey, last time I was wrong was when I thought I made a mistake...."
Gonna keep correcting myself until I get it RIGHT. Sorry if my errors offend anyone.

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And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.

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You dismiss Breitbart, but then go on to cite CCN ? ROFLMAO !!!!



Who the hell is CCN ? One of PN's rivals ?

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Also, there was a guy caught on a cell phone video, after the shooting, saying that M.B. actually came BACK and was charging the officer. It was a casual conversation, caught on audio, shortly after the shooting, but before all the ruckus had taken place.

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And I'm sure you can provide a link to that item of "anecdotal evidence."

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tox results still have to come in too

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Just saw a reference to that. (Oops, better provide a link.) He is reported to have had marijuana in his system.

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The retired examiner also emphasized that he would need a toxicology report to comment on a claim, made by a police source quoted in The Washington Post on Monday, that the county police's autopsy found marijuana in Brown's system.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:


Also saw a (conservative) website (Damn, I'm gonna have to go back and FIND the site again, and provide a link. YA know how some people just hate "anecdotal evidence". But I did see it. ) that reported several things I hadn't seen anywhere else: Brown wanted to be, or was, a rapper. We all know that EVERY SINGLE ONE of THEM is a criminal; there's video of him flashing "gang signs". That one might be true, actually; and, (same site) a motivation for stealing the box of cigars, worth almost $50-- that's 80 to 100 of 'em. Turns out drug dealers hollow out those Swisher Sweets and refill them with MJ. (I hadn't known that.) So he was, "really", a "drug dealer", not a good kid going off to college. High level, too, probably a wholesaler.

Now, I don't know. Are those true, relevant facts about his real character, or just more character assassination? And is any of it relevant to the police officer's original action, stopping these 2 guys for walking down the middle of a street? Did he, or the police chief, know about any of those things? Back later with links.

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Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was shot on Aug. 9 by a Ferguson, Mo., police officer, was an aspiring hip-hop artist. The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday on Brown's SoundCloud page, a collection of amateur rap songs that Brown had posted before his death.

They contained much of the imagery and language common to so-called gangster rap. Pictures of Brown flashing alleged gang signs have also circulated in the conservative blogosphere.

FrontPage magazine, the online home of David Horowitz, whose self-described mission is to battle the radical left, labeled Brown "a criminal and a thug" in its summary of his character, which featured the rap lyrics.

"The fact that Brown liked performing thug music obviously doesn’t by itself make him a thug, but it does provide insight into his state of mind," the site said. "The same can be said for the photographs that have surfaced of Brown posing like a tough guy, making gestures with his hands that some say are gang signs."

FrontPage magazine, and others, connected Brown's rap lyrics with the police report released Friday that said he was the "primary suspect" in a convenience store robbery that occurred minutes before he was shot. That report's release, which was reportedly opposed by the Justice Department, has been criticized by Brown's family and public officials as an attempt to paint a negative public image of Brown.

"Well, this kind of destroys the ‘gentle giant’ narrative spun in the media," ClashDaily, the website of Doug Giles, who occasionally writes for the more well-known TownHall.com, said in its summary of Brown's songs.

The conspiratorial website World Net Daily connected Brown's professed marijuana smoking in the songs with his alleged robbery of some cigarillos -- which are "widely known to be used by marijuana smokers, who roll their own blunts by replacing the cigarillos’ tobacco with pot" -- on the day of the shooting.

"I didn’t go through the entire catalogue, but it’s pretty obscene, though standard rap fare these days," conservative blogger SooperMexican said in his own post. "Of course, none of this means he is guilty of what the police claim he did, but it adds another dimension to the character of Mike Brown."

"Draw your own conclusions."

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

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Do you agree with the following? (It's a trick question.)

"We know that America is exceptional in one key respect—we came to democracy without much bloodshed. Around the world, from Hungary and Russia to Iraq and Nigeria, we see the dream of peaceful democratization dragged again and again to what the philosopher Hegel called the slaughter-bench of history. Racial strife and murderous governments, not liberty and democracy, are the rule in history, the established pattern. We know that, mercifully, democratization scourged us only once in ferociously modern style: during the Civil War."

The trick is that the last sentence here nullifies the first. Some 600,000 Americans--2.5 percent of the American population--died in the Civil War. What came before this was a long bloody war--enslavement--against black families, black communities and black bodies. What came after was a terrorist regime which ruled an entire swath of this country by fire and rope. That regime was not overthrown until an era well within the living memory of many Americans. Taken all together, the body count that led us to our present tenuous democratic moment does not elevate us above the community of nations, but installs us uncomfortably within its ranks. And that is terrifying because it shows us to be neither providential nor exceptional, and only special in the subjective sense that our families are special--because they are ours. www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/Reparations-For-Ferguson/
376098/

I just want to note that Ferguson Missouri was in the Confederacy. The Confederacy recognized the pro-Confederate claimants in both Kentucky and Missouri and laid claim to those states, granting them Congressional representation and adding two stars to the Confederate flag.

Not so bad as Georgia and Mississippi, but lynchings happened in Missouri, too. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchstats.html

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