REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Sunday, November 3, 2024 14:41
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VIEWED: 45558
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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:35 PM

THGRRI


What question was that? If you mean about cops not being accountable I never said that. If you are talking about listening to cops when they say do something. It is the law, they are the law. If they make a mistake get a lawyer or file a complaint but do not become combative.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
On Saturday, Michael Brown, 18, was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St. Louis. The Ferguson Police Department has asserted that Brown assaulted the officer, whose name has not yet been released. Eyewitnesses, however, have disputed that claim and said Brown was killed while attempting to surrender or flee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing is that if the police account is true, then the cop who shot him is a hero and why wouldn't they release his name? After all he did attack a police officer with his bare hands, in a moving vehicle with an armed officer of the "law."

Shot him multiple times, and even shot him in the back, according to witness accounts.


SGG




Maybe getting over the 300 post hump made me have to at least click on this link....

It's very sad. I do believe that Rappy is right and an autopsy will make the right conclusions if it's all done properly.... and I hope to God that given how prevalent this case seems to be to the public that it is all done by the book for everyone involved.

I'm really hoping that the answer lies somewhere in the fringes and that either the Cops were right and the kid was a Murderous Leech on society or that the local police station there conspired to kill this kid hoping that their shields would.... well... shield them from any blowback....

Chances are, the truth lies somwhere in the middle and this story, no matter how sad it is, is just another one that I wish I never knew about...

That's my vote. Cops are dicks. The dead kid was a dick. Case closed.

I know one of these days there will be a REAL Batman and even the dirty cops will cower in fear.

In the mean time... whatever.....

Sorry black teen's Mother. Even if he was the biggest asshole in the world, and I'm not even suggesting he was since I know nothing about the story, you never stopped loving him.

I really hope he wasn't a bad guy and that those responsible for his death are made to pay.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:44 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ut oh...

'more than a dozen people have backed up Ferguson officer's story'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728772/Second-friend-cop-shot
-dead-Michael-Brown-comes-defense-say-s-quiet-respectful-guy.html



Hey NOBC !!! Does this count ?

I know it's not exactly what I was posting , but the fact that the story is being backed up by MULTIPLE witnesses leads credence to my prior post.

Brown was the aggressor, and the cop acted in self defense.

That's not ME saying that, but the story from many who claim they saw it, and the story ( allegedly ) that the cop himself has given.




AH, here it is, I went looking for this original post.

Followed the link to the Daily Mail, and looked at the story. Got this far:

Quote:


St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter who tweeted on Monday that 'more than a dozen witnesses corroborated cop's story' later admitted she was on leave and her post was 'personal'




Not sure exactly what that means, but it reads to me as the Daily Mail won't report her statement as valid journalism. ANd it sounds like she's backing away from it herself, claiming it's not up to her own standards as a professional journalist. Just a personal tweet. How close it that to "anecdotal"?



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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:51 PM

THGRRI


Yeah OK you are confusing things NOBC. Are you going to respond to what I have been posting today as apposed to just criticizing my spelling.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yeah OK you are confusing things NOBC. Are you going to respond to what I have been posting today as apposed to just criticizing my spelling.




"TRUE GENIUS????

[/correcting spelling errors online by 15 years old]



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:19 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


saw this last night at work about the Officer Wilson support group


http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/08/19/officer_darren_wilson_s_o
nline_support_group_is_as_classy_as_you_d_expect.html



Aug. 19 2014 12:07 PM
Officer Darren Wilson’s Online Support Group Is As Classy As You’d Expect

By David Weigel

Quote:




One of the stranger subcultures of the #Ferguson moment is the spontaneous support group that's collected to support Officer Darren Wilson. Gideon Resnick reports on the most prominent GoFundMe page and T-shirt campaign and Facebook group of the movement, and got a few comments from organizers. (I've requested some comments, too, because I am absolutely terrible at book leave.) They say what you might expect: They wish this situation weren't racialized. "Al and Jesse would never come out from cowardly hiding if it were a black cop and white offender," says one organizer, very un-racist-ly.

I say this is strange because Wilson has not been arrested. The GoFundMe page, which has raised more than $21,000 (and was started in St. Charles, the conservative county outside St. Louis), explains that "all proceeds will be sent directly to Darren Wilson and his family for any financial needs they may have including legal fees." The legal fees, currently, would pay for nothing. That's sort of why protesters keep taking over the streets. (By contrast, the George Zimmerman defense fund only started going after Zimmerman was arrested.)

Who would be so moved by Wilson's legal non-plight to organize for him? We Support Officer Darren Wilson, the Facebook group, greets visitors with this message: "We do NOT SUPPORT RACISM OF ANY KIND. HATRED, RACISM AND NEGGATIVE COMMENTS OR POSTS WILL RESULT IN YOUR REMOVAL OF THE GROUP." One of the group admins is Ryder Wingrath, who on Aug. 16 changed his Facebook avatar to a meme of solidarity. The change was celebrated on his Facebook wall.




I love that line with the ALL CAPS. Hey, Thug, did you write it? Or is it just somebody who can't spell any better than you can? And misbehavior will result in REMOVAL OF THE GROUP... Huh? THey're all gonna go away and leave you alone? or maybe they mean "from" the group? But ya can see the importance of proper spelling and of proper word usage.

Lotta stuff from the website. I can't get it to copy but here's a quote:

Quote:


Bernie Blair: I think the cop is a hero. One down, many more to go. August 16 at 3:56 PM




OH, but none of it is from racists. None of the Animal Planet pictures, or non worker jokes, or other stuff.

There's plenty more from Weigel, and from the sidebars his piece links to. I'm not gonna quote any more of it, but all of you lefties might go there. If it doesn't piss you off, or make you sick, it'll make you laugh. The rest of you, you might find it inspirational. And there's links to places where you could contribute money to groups pledging for his legal defense funding.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:40 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

…NOBC
I love that line with the ALL CAPS. Hey, Thug, did you write it? Or is it just somebody who can't spell any better than you can? And misbehavior will result in REMOVAL OF THE GROUP... Huh? THey're all gonna go away and leave you alone? or maybe they mean "from" the group? But ya can see the importance of proper spelling and of proper word usage.



No NOBC, What I write you ignore because it is on a level you cannot address. What you do instead is criticize my spelling. It just shows you side stepping the issue because as I said, it is over your head. The funniest thing is, as I cut and paste your responses into word, it is the one with the grammatical errors. I put it to all here to cut and paste this in word and see who the moron is here. It’s really funny seeing all your errors in this post(5 if you include the whole post), as well as the others as I type my responses. Funny because it is the pot calling the kettle black. Cut and post all mine into word and hers as well. I am not saying I don't make mistakes, but let's see who does it more often? I think you'll be surprised NOBC.



As I keep saying. Address what I have been posting to you today. What nothing to say about the content?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Well, haven't looked at your link, so I can't say what's in it, BUT, yep it backs his story. Almost exactly as much as the bunch of witnesses that back Mike Brown's side, the ones that YOU keep rejecting.



But how can that be ? Who'd back up the cop if they didn't see what they had actually thought they saw ?

And what about those who claimed Mike was shot in the back ? Arms raised ?

Sorry, facts don't support that. His arms were never raised. That's the myth that those w/ an agenda want to promote.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:13 PM

THGRRI


Again Rap I don't know what happened, but I do know there are what was describe as possible reentry wounds. They to are in the front of his body. Meaning if he was facing the officer with his arms and hands in front of him the reentry wounds could be from shots hitting his arms and then his chest.

Remember, that could happen if he was laying face up and trying to protect himself from an out of control cop. It would not explain the angle of the shot to the head. Still it's all just speculation at this point.



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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.

ANd only shot 6 ties, not 10 as FREM suggested. 'Course one of those 6 was in the top of the head, and one went in near the right eye, came out the jaw, and went in near the collarbone. And none of them were close enough to leave powder burns.

" Now, tell me , Dr. Quincy, what does that suggest, forensically, about the positions and actions of the police officer and the deceased at the moment of the shooting?"


Asking DA, surely the aggressive thug was charging the officer, high on weed, hands full of stolen cigar boxes, stumbled, and by the time officer's gun discharged, hit thug in the top of the head.

Not that hard to figure - but, hey let's just assume that the thug's criminal accomplice is telling the truth instead, OK?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Ever try shooting at a charging thug who has just broken your eye socket ?

My guess is that it's probably pretty tough to do, hold a gun and aim like that.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


When being charged, assaulted, battered by thugs, once shooting commences there are not too many rules about stopping the shots, at least until the assailant stops. Many places have "no warning shots" rules - once a shot has been fired, it is to be fatal shots attempted. When Angel Dust thugs attack, they do not stop after an entire clip is unloded into them - and the cop has no way of knowing if a non-compliant assailant is in that state or not.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 7:04 PM

THGRRI


NOBC

I poste all day with you and not once did you answer what I posted but instead just keep your responses petty. I stayed on topic and concise. I see that created a problem for you.

I will respond back if you decide to address what I posted today.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Ya know what ? Since the security video, the autopsy, the multiple eye witnesses, and then the revelations that the cop had a busted eye socket, it seems many of the usual suspects have grown mute.


Wonder why.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:44 PM

THGRRI


I don't want to make a prediction. There are clearly no winners here.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:22 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

..., and then the revelations that the cop had a busted eye socket


So the cop pulls up to Brown so close that he can't get out of his car; so close that Brown is able to push him back inside, pound on his face, and then a struggle for the gun ensues? So then, after getting his ass kicked, the cop recovers enough to try again to confront Brown? And all this is done without waiting for backup or even having a dash cam on?

He must be either the worst-trained cop in history or the dumbest cop in history.


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Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:47 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well 6SJ,

Here's how I look at it.

It doesn't matter what the kid did, or if he was an asshole or not. Crossing against the light, shoplifting cigars, jaywalking, what have you.

Fact: He was unarmed

Fact: He was shot 6 times

Fact: The police are hired to keep the peace, arrest lawbreakers and bring them to justice. Not to be judge, jury and executioner.

It has been reported that the officer suffered a broken eye socket, supposedly at the hands of the kid, I don't feel that it is a sufficient enough reason to shoot someone 6 times. If someone punches you in the face, you punch them back, not pull out a howitzer and start blasting. Remember he is an officer of the law and represents the county and state, and the will of the people (okay that last part is a little corny).

Add to that the fact, as reported by the Police Chief, that he didn't know that this kid was anything but a kid "jaywalking" down the middle of the street, so he had no other reason than being annoyed he was illegally walking down the street. Which makes this even more disturbing because he shot a kid over the most asinine reason ever - he was jaywalking. Words were exchanged, obviously, and the result a cop loses it and empties a clip on a dumb kid who didn't know enough to shut up.

So what was the state of mind of the cop as he chased this kid down the street? What possessed him to shoot him twice in the head? A punch to the face, is that what made him freak and blow him away? Did he call for back up? Once he was on the ground, why did he keep shooting after wounding him?
On the surface, it was not a justifiable shoot. Not one cop, not the police chief, not anyone has made that claim. They're not even claiming self defense.

4 miles up the road, the county police there shot and killed and armed, and slightly crazed, black man who was wielding a knife. Justifiable? Absolutely. The police chief of that jurisdiction came out and gave a full account of his officer's actions. No cover up, just the facts as they were given to him. Full disclosure, although preliminary, but nonetheless immediate full disclosure.

If the Ferguson officer was assaulted, then Brown should have been arrested and tried for assault. Not shot 6 times. Especially since he was unarmed.

The autopsy was inconclusive.

Fact: We still don't have the DNA evidence from the officers gun. That will show if Brown laid hands on the gun in the struggled.

Fact: The officer's report, where is it?

Fact: Why did the police chief have him hide if he acted within the law?

It reminds me of the OJ trial. If he was innocent why did he run in the white Bronco?

Stands to reason that if it was a good shoot, he would stand tall and say Yeah, I shot him for this reason!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
On Saturday, Michael Brown, 18, was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St. Louis. The Ferguson Police Department has asserted that Brown assaulted the officer, whose name has not yet been released. Eyewitnesses, however, have disputed that claim and said Brown was killed while attempting to surrender or flee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing is that if the police account is true, then the cop who shot him is a hero and why wouldn't they release his name? After all he did attack a police officer with his bare hands, in a moving vehicle with an armed officer of the "law."

Shot him multiple times, and even shot him in the back, according to witness accounts.


SGG




Maybe getting over the 300 post hump made me have to at least click on this link....

It's very sad. I do believe that Rappy is right and an autopsy will make the right conclusions if it's all done properly.... and I hope to God that given how prevalent this case seems to be to the public that it is all done by the book for everyone involved.

I'm really hoping that the answer lies somewhere in the fringes and that either the Cops were right and the kid was a Murderous Leech on society or that the local police station there conspired to kill this kid hoping that their shields would.... well... shield them from any blowback....

Chances are, the truth lies somwhere in the middle and this story, no matter how sad it is, is just another one that I wish I never knew about...

That's my vote. Cops are dicks. The dead kid was a dick. Case closed.

I know one of these days there will be a REAL Batman and even the dirty cops will cower in fear.

In the mean time... whatever.....

Sorry black teen's Mother. Even if he was the biggest asshole in the world, and I'm not even suggesting he was since I know nothing about the story, you never stopped loving him.

I really hope he wasn't a bad guy and that those responsible for his death are made to pay.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:07 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Totally agree with you.

When an officer is "being charged, assaulted, battered by thugs, once shooting commences there are not too many rules about stopping the shots, at least until the assailant stops."

But usually when someone is running away, it's kind of hard to attack.
Still though, if there was a struggle, the cop had to be feared for his life, not afraid of getting his ass handed to him by a 6' 4" "thug".

Call for back-up.

During the autopsy report the doctor said that there was no gunpowder residue on the victim's clothes, which means that the shots were fired from more than 3 feet. Plus the shots entered Brown's body on a downward angle, indicating that Brown was either squatting or on the street.

Normally, to attack, you need to be upright. The doctor stated that the fatal shots were the ones to the head. Those were definitely fired on a downward angle. Unless the officer got up on a ladder................


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
When being charged, assaulted, battered by thugs, once shooting commences there are not too many rules about stopping the shots, at least until the assailant stops. Many places have "no warning shots" rules - once a shot has been fired, it is to be fatal shots attempted. When Angel Dust thugs attack, they do not stop after an entire clip is unloded into them - and the cop has no way of knowing if a non-compliant assailant is in that state or not.


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Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


When an officer is attacked, and damn near incapacitated, ( broken eye sockets tend to do that ) his first priority is no longer to defend and protect the thug attacking him, but to remain alive.

In a perfect world, there'd be a happy middle ground, where a cop could only subdue an attacker, w/ out the use of lethal force. Tasers work, " usually ", but in the flash of a moment where the cop may have been caught off guard at the viciousness of the attack, while in severe pain himself, this homicide may very well have been justified.

At the very least, the myth that this cop "executed " a young black man who had given up and was raising his hands in surrender seems to be the stuff of pure fiction, and no where near the truth.

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:52 AM

THGRRI


Yeah, I am guilty of calling Brown a kid many times myself. He was in fact a 6'4" 300 pound male. One of the witnesses initially said the cop tried to pull Brown into the squad car through the window. This was the first statement that raised suspicions for me.

I know the belief of many is that the cops should not have released the video of Brown robbing the store. The cop did not know it at the time so it was irrelevant. It does go to show Browns mood just moments before he was approached by the cop. Also Brown had no way of knowing the cop did not know.


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Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I know the belief of many is that the cops should not have released the video of Brown robbing the store. The cop did not know it at the time so it was irrelevant. It does go to show Browns mood just moments before he was approached by the cop. Also Brown had no way of knowing the cop did not know.




I think they should have released the video earlier. There's no logical reason why showing the actual true events prior to his encounter should enrage anyone. It's a nonsensical and illogical reaction. The only reason folks got upset is because it showed them what they wanted. They lashed out like children.

It doesn't matter that the cop didn't know, the point is that the video showed the state of mind of Brown, and how violent he had just been. So it was completely relevant.

Also, if Brown had just roughed up a store clerk,and stolen a bunch of cigars, then a cop rolls up on him , what's the first thing he's gonna think ? That the cop is responding to a robbery call, that's what.

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:07 PM

THGRRI


I am going to let this go for a while. My thing is more about why this keeps happening and what are the root causes. We really need a fix for this but I do not see that happening.


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Thursday, August 21, 2014 5:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I am going to let this go for a while. My thing is more about why this keeps happening and what are the root causes. We really need a fix for this but I do not see that happening.




Stats say it doesn't happen all that much. Black males are FAR more in danger from other black males.

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:13 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well 6SJ,

Here's how I look at it.

It doesn't matter what the kid did, or if he was an asshole or not. Crossing against the light, shoplifting cigars, jaywalking, what have you.

Fact: He was unarmed


Many states recognize hands as lethal weapons. How many reasonable people would truly consider a 6'4" 300 pound criminal high on angel dust or whatever he was on to be unarmed? And the point of being compliant in the presense of and armed officer is to allow them to verify that you are NOT in possession of a weapon - if you don't comply, they must assume you are armed, and put you down.
Quote:


Fact: He was shot 6 times

Fact: The police are hired to keep the peace, arrest lawbreakers and bring them to justice.


Surely this is a reasonable argument - society needs police (this is in America, not some backwater theocracy) to arrest criminals, and those criminals who choose to commit more crimes by resisting arrest so they can continue to commit more crimes should be stopped at all costs.
I recall the times serial killers have been stopped amidst their sprees when officers did not adhere to commands to cease pursuit, only to find that the reason for fleeing was the corpse of the 26th victim was wrapped in carpet in the truck bed - would not have been stopped if we would just let all those criminals carry on if they don't feel like pulling over amidst the commission of a crime.
Good plan.
Quote:


Not to be judge, jury and executioner.


OOoops. Spoke too soon, poster went off the rails. Accidentally swerved into sensible thinking above, but now has returned to the quicksand of libtardity.

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Normally, to attack, you need to be upright. The doctor stated that the fatal shots were the ones to the head. Those were definitely fired on a downward angle. Unless the officer got up on a ladder................

SGG


Are you clueless? Have you never, ever, heard to "keep your shoulders down" when charging an opponent? Any athlete chargin an opponent without their helmet and shoulders down will be beaten "at the line of scrimmage" in our popular sport, and will be taken off the starting roster. Why would somebody charge another running with upright posture, like a girl? Do you think he ran upright at the patrol car and attacked it with his knees? Even if the kid is a criminal, are you suggesting he was stupid to the point of retardation that would prompt him to attack a car with his knees? If not, then he likely had his shoulders down when he hit the car.
Come on, use a little sense.
Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
When being charged, assaulted, battered by thugs, once shooting commences there are not too many rules about stopping the shots, at least until the assailant stops. Many places have "no warning shots" rules - once a shot has been fired, it is to be fatal shots attempted. When Angel Dust thugs attack, they do not stop after an entire clip is unloded into them - and the cop has no way of knowing if a non-compliant assailant is in that state or not.



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Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.


saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?


Not sure if your logic and curiosity have been satisfied since this post, or not.

I think I heard this on one of the following radio shows: Mark Levin or Dennis Miller (the previous evening) or Sean Hannity Show just prior to posting that reply. Sean has a website and a show on FNC as well, I think.

What I had understood was this:
The cop did not connect the black thug with the store theft at first, possibly because the shoplifting, having just taken place, had not been broadcast yet.
At some point during the incident, the cop either realized the thug had expensive cigars, or heard the broadcast of the recent shoplifting in the neighborhood, and noted the connection with the cigars in the hands of the thug.... er, um, unarmed teenage thug.

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case. The part about the non-connection was accurate AT THE BEGINNING of the interaction, but the Chief did not elaborate about the ensuing developments.

I'm not trying to confuse anything, but that was the way I recall what I had heard. Does that make sense to you?


Glad to know that you get your news from Sean Hannity, Dennis Miller, and Mark Levin, ( all EXTREMELY reliable, totally objective journalists-- NOT!.)by listening to it on the radio, rather than by READING it.


OK, so now you have made it clear that you were not really looking for the facts. Those 3 show hosts normally credit each of their sources, specifying who and where and when the information or quote came from. When you openly reject any facts or truth which don't conform to your model based solely on your opinion of the source, you lay bare your inherent bias. Yes, you got me - I was under the delusion you were genuinely in search of facts, data, truth, and so I provided you some helpful info (those shows are frequently available in recorded or transcribed form after their airing), albeit not as timely as you may have wanted. I suppose if I had claimed that CNN or Dan Blather had reported some actual unbiased, unfiltered news, you would have swallowed that wiener whole.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 12:06 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


This is no longer fun, but I will answer your post thusly:

Firstly, I played football, so I know about keeping low, I've done it a time or two when I was a kid. But this ain't football. Period.

And B, I laid out anyone I hit. Period.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Normally, to attack, you need to be upright. The doctor stated that the fatal shots were the ones to the head. Those were definitely fired on a downward angle. Unless the officer got up on a ladder................

SGG


Are you clueless? Have you never, ever, heard to "keep your shoulders down" when charging an opponent? Any athlete chargin an opponent without their helmet and shoulders down will be beaten "at the line of scrimmage" in our popular sport, and will be taken off the starting roster. Why would somebody charge another running with upright posture, like a girl? Do you think he ran upright at the patrol car and attacked it with his knees? Even if the kid is a criminal, are you suggesting he was stupid to the point of retardation that would prompt him to attack a car with his knees? If not, then he likely had his shoulders down when he hit the car.
Come on, use a little sense.
Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
When being charged, assaulted, battered by thugs, once shooting commences there are not too many rules about stopping the shots, at least until the assailant stops. Many places have "no warning shots" rules - once a shot has been fired, it is to be fatal shots attempted. When Angel Dust thugs attack, they do not stop after an entire clip is unloded into them - and the cop has no way of knowing if a non-compliant assailant is in that state or not.




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Friday, August 22, 2014 12:23 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


1. Unarmed. Must I spell it out for you?

2. I made a clear enough statement. Cops arrest people, they are not "charged" with executing them at will. We are a nation of laws, unless you come from a "backwater theocracy" where you make up the rules as you go along.

The rest of your comments, I swat away like I would a gnat.
But, of course, you will continue to try and provoke.

Here's a scenario:

I'm a cop and I see you walking toward me. I pull my service revolver and blow your head off. According to your weak statements, I would be justified in the shooting because you were coming at me in a threatening manner. My shoot would be justified, merely because you assumed the "attack position"

That would be my story. According to you, I would walk away scott free.
That's about right, isn't it?
Law and Order!


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well 6SJ,

Here's how I look at it.

It doesn't matter what the kid did, or if he was an asshole or not. Crossing against the light, shoplifting cigars, jaywalking, what have you.

Fact: He was unarmed


Many states recognize hands as lethal weapons. How many reasonable people would truly consider a 6'4" 300 pound criminal high on angel dust or whatever he was on to be unarmed? And the point of being compliant in the presense of and armed officer is to allow them to verify that you are NOT in possession of a weapon - if you don't comply, they must assume you are armed, and put you down.
Quote:


Fact: He was shot 6 times

Fact: The police are hired to keep the peace, arrest lawbreakers and bring them to justice.


Surely this is a reasonable argument - society needs police (this is in America, not some backwater theocracy) to arrest criminals, and those criminals who choose to commit more crimes by resisting arrest so they can continue to commit more crimes should be stopped at all costs.
I recall the times serial killers have been stopped amidst their sprees when officers did not adhere to commands to cease pursuit, only to find that the reason for fleeing was the corpse of the 26th victim was wrapped in carpet in the truck bed - would not have been stopped if we would just let all those criminals carry on if they don't feel like pulling over amidst the commission of a crime.
Good plan.
Quote:


Not to be judge, jury and executioner.


OOoops. Spoke too soon, poster went off the rails. Accidentally swerved into sensible thinking above, but now has returned to the quicksand of libtardity.


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Friday, August 22, 2014 7:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
1. Unarmed. Must I spell it out for you?

2. I made a clear enough statement. Cops arrest people, they are not "charged" with executing them at will. We are a nation of laws, unless you come from a "backwater theocracy" where you make up the rules as you go along.

The rest of your comments, I swat away like I would a gnat.
But, of course, you will continue to try and provoke.



Anyone know why a cop carries a gun? It's not to protect the public, but to protect THEMSELVES.

Armed or unarmed, it doesn't matter. If a cop is being attacked ( in this case, by a 6'4" 300lb male ) and suffers a broken socket from the conflict, things have just gotten real.

There was no ' execution at will ' here. There was a scuffle, a physical altercation, leading up to the shooting.

Those are the facts. Did the cop justifiably use his weapon ? Don't know yet. IS there any scenario where a cop could have used his weapon, vs an unarmed assailant ? Not in the best case scenario, but guess what ? This is the REAL WORLD. So the answer to that is, yes, there are times where use of such force is justifiable. Ignoring all the myths and hysteria that's been fabricated about this case, the hard cold truth is, sometimes a cop is allowed to defend himself.

More info needs to come out, but as of now, there's at least reasonable doubt, in my mind, that the cop MAY have acted correctly.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:17 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I am going to let this go for a while. My thing is more about why this keeps happening and what are the root causes. We really need a fix for this but I do not see that happening.




Stats say it doesn't happen all that much. Black males are FAR more in danger from other black males.



You must not be reading my posts. I mention the number is over 90%.


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Friday, August 22, 2014 10:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
This is the REAL WORLD. . . .
More info needs to come out, but as of now, there's at least reasonable doubt, in my mind, that the cop MAY have acted correctly.

There something wrong with the Ferguson Police Dept, but you can interpret its history as you please. Alex Tabarrok comments on the rather remarkable caseload of Ferguson's municipal court:

You don’t get $321 in fines and fees and 3 warrants per household from an about-average crime rate. You get numbers like this from bullshit arrests for jaywalking and constant “low level harassment involving traffic stops, court appearances, high fines, and the threat of jail for failure to pay.” -- http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/ferguson-and-
the-debtors-prison.html


Fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400. In 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed of 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases, or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.

Why are police departments allowed to fund themselves with ticket revenue in the first place? Or red light camera revenue. Or civil asset forfeiture revenue. Or any other kind of revenue that provides them with an incentive to be as hardass as possible.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, August 22, 2014 11:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Indeed, Second - that whole article is a good expose of how exactly the financial death spiral trap works, which is why despite the risk I still think it's better to oppose a bullshit arrest on the spot, cause once they get the crowbar into your life in that fashion you're as good as dead already, it's just gonna take longer.

Oh, and this little bit which came along today.

Everytown USA: Is the Policeman Your Friend?
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/25742-everytown-usa-is-the-policeman
-your-friend

Quote:

The Ferguson police said Brown was the suspect in the robbery of some cigars at a store, and released a grainy security video to prove it. Then they said Officer Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect. Then they said he did know. Then they said, for reasons passing understanding, that Brown had marijuana in his system. Then it came to light that Brown, in fact, paid for his cigars. Meanwhile, with every story switch by the police, the protesters in the street got hotter and angrier and louder. The arrests began, sweeping up journalists along with protesters, along with local citizens just trying to go about their business...

Again, and as usual, over and over again...

I Told You So.

-Frem

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Friday, August 22, 2014 12:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-contradict-fox-sources-claiming-darren-
wilson-had-fractured-eye-socket
/

CNN Contradicts Fox Sources Claiming Darren Wilson Had Fractured Eye Socket

OR

FOX cums in crappy's mouth and crappy spits it out here




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 1:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, let's total up the disinformation

cigars - paid for
officer - no broken eye socket
Brown - not a suspect
Brown - not killed in a close-quarters struggle

- meanwhile the Ferguson town council and PD look worse and worse -




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 1:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Unlikely, no reason to shove a store clerk if you paid for cigars you weren't old enough to buy in the first place.

The rush to dishonesty here is staggering.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 5:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Surely some have mentioned by now that he is not a repeat criminal offender. Theft of cigars - in most places theft is a crime in white neighborhoods. Assaulting a Police Officer - that would be a felony. Hmm... I wonder if more that one is, like, repeating.

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
1. Unarmed. Must I spell it out for you?

2. I made a clear enough statement. Cops arrest people, they are not "charged" with executing them at will. We are a nation of laws, unless you come from a "backwater theocracy" where you make up the rules as you go along.

The rest of your comments, I swat away like I would a gnat.
But, of course, you will continue to try and provoke.

Here's a scenario:

I'm a cop and I see you walking toward me. I pull my service revolver and blow your head off. According to your weak statements, I would be justified in the shooting because you were coming at me in a threatening manner. My shoot would be justified, merely because you assumed the "attack position"

That would be my story. According to you, I would walk away scott free.
That's about right, isn't it?
Law and Order!


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well 6SJ,

Here's how I look at it.

It doesn't matter what the kid did, or if he was an asshole or not. Crossing against the light, shoplifting cigars, jaywalking, what have you.

Fact: He was unarmed


Many states recognize hands as lethal weapons. How many reasonable people would truly consider a 6'4" 300 pound criminal high on angel dust or whatever he was on to be unarmed? And the point of being compliant in the presense of and armed officer is to allow them to verify that you are NOT in possession of a weapon - if you don't comply, they must assume you are armed, and put you down.
Quote:


Fact: He was shot 6 times

Fact: The police are hired to keep the peace, arrest lawbreakers and bring them to justice.


Surely this is a reasonable argument - society needs police (this is in America, not some backwater theocracy) to arrest criminals, and those criminals who choose to commit more crimes by resisting arrest so they can continue to commit more crimes should be stopped at all costs.
I recall the times serial killers have been stopped amidst their sprees when officers did not adhere to commands to cease pursuit, only to find that the reason for fleeing was the corpse of the 26th victim was wrapped in carpet in the truck bed - would not have been stopped if we would just let all those criminals carry on if they don't feel like pulling over amidst the commission of a crime.
Good plan.
Quote:


Not to be judge, jury and executioner.


OOoops. Spoke too soon, poster went off the rails. Accidentally swerved into sensible thinking above, but now has returned to the quicksand of libtardity.



You are incorrect.
But tell me, now close to unconsciousness should an armed officer allow himself to get before defending the citizens he/she is duty-bound to protect and keeping his/her service weapon out of the hands of the assailant?

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Friday, August 22, 2014 5:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Originally posted by AURaptor:

My rush to dishonesty here is staggering.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 8:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


This makes a liar out of you, 1kiki -

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

My rush to dishonesty here is staggering.



I never posted that.


It'd make perfect sense if Michael Brown hadn't appeared on video , where he shoved a store clerk , apparently for no reason what so ever, and then bowed up to the clerk, who was ever so thankful that the customer had paid in full for his cigars.




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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:07 PM

THGRRI


Hey Rappy nice catch. Proof once again that 1kiki is not just a liar but she changes what we say as well. She only changed one word but that was all it took to change the meaning of what you said completely.


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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


OH, CRAPPY DOES THAT ALL THE TIME. I WAS JUST RETURNING IT BACK TO HIM. YOU'RE OK WHEN CRAPPY DOES IT, THOUGH. YOU ONLY TAKE ISSUE WITH PEOPLE WHO CHALLENGE YOUR 'FACTS'. YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OH, CRAPPY DOES THAT ALL THE TIME. I WAS JUST RETURNING IT BACK TO HIM. YOU'RE OK WHEN CRAPPY DOES IT, THOUGH. YOU ONLY TAKE ISSUE WITH PEOPLE WHO CHALLENGE YOUR 'FACTS'. YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS.




Actually, I don't. I'll fix something in the quote, and make note of what it was I changed, or I'll simply not attribute it to the person, and just rework the quote, having removed their name.

It's funny to see you get so animated over something which you're also so completely wrong about as well.


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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Animated? Kitty's paw was on the caps lock key.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 22, 2014 9:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Awww...blaming it on ketteh.

Too cute.


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Friday, August 22, 2014 11:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And so true. ;>




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 23, 2014 1:37 AM

SHINYGOODGUY



Sure , I've known cops who said just that: "I'm going to protect myself"

Fact: Where is the proof of his eye socket being bruised. According to journalists, info has been requested and none has been submitted. And don't give that "it's his private business crap." He's paid through taxpayer dollars and is paid by same. He's a public servant.

Fact: Brown was 6' 4" and 300 lbs. But who do you thinks wins between a fist and a bullet?

Fact: Witnesses have stated that the cop was up to 25' away when the fatal shots were let loose. Plus no powder residue on Brown's clothing. So, no close range shots.

Fact: Witnesses stated that the cop shot at Brown as he ran away.

Fact: No one, including the Police Chief, have made no statements as to what happened in those faithful moments during the struggle. Curious, not one statement as to his side of the story, just silence. More on that in another thread.

Fact: Attacked!? From a fetal position? Wounded and bleeding out, he went to attack a man with a gun. Are you nuts? Wait, look who I'm talking to.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
1. Unarmed. Must I spell it out for you?

2. I made a clear enough statement. Cops arrest people, they are not "charged" with executing them at will. We are a nation of laws, unless you come from a "backwater theocracy" where you make up the rules as you go along.

The rest of your comments, I swat away like I would a gnat.
But, of course, you will continue to try and provoke.



Anyone know why a cop carries a gun? It's not to protect the public, but to protect THEMSELVES.

Armed or unarmed, it doesn't matter. If a cop is being attacked ( in this case, by a 6'4" 300lb male ) and suffers a broken socket from the conflict, things have just gotten real.

There was no ' execution at will ' here. There was a scuffle, a physical altercation, leading up to the shooting.

Those are the facts. Did the cop justifiably use his weapon ? Don't know yet. IS there any scenario where a cop could have used his weapon, vs an unarmed assailant ? Not in the best case scenario, but guess what ? This is the REAL WORLD. So the answer to that is, yes, there are times where use of such force is justifiable. Ignoring all the myths and hysteria that's been fabricated about this case, the hard cold truth is, sometimes a cop is allowed to defend himself.

More info needs to come out, but as of now, there's at least reasonable doubt, in my mind, that the cop MAY have acted correctly.


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Saturday, August 23, 2014 1:48 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


1Kiki

Add to that the piece de resistance: NO POLICE INCIDENT REPORT, no, actually one was filed on 8/19/14, that contained just Brown's name, the date and 2 signature: the supervising detective and Police Chief, signing off on it.

(obtained upon request by ACLU)

Why the blank Report?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, let's total up the disinformation

cigars - paid for
officer - no broken eye socket
Brown - not a suspect
Brown - not killed in a close-quarters struggle

- meanwhile the Ferguson town council and PD look worse and worse -




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Fact: Witnesses can get it wrong, or worse, lie.

Fact: * Fifty-one officers were killed when their department-issued firearms or another officer’s gun were turned against them. So all this banter about cops shooting " unarmed teenagers " is a bit misleading. If Officer Wilson had been injured from a blow by Brown, and Brown was coming back again towards the officer, it may be a legitimate use of force the officer used for self defense.

Fact: Autopsy hired by the Brown family themselves shows no gun wounds in the back.

We'll find out soon enough what, if any injuries Officer Wilson sustained.

Where's ANY evidence that Brown was in the fetal position?



* http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/robert-farago/washington-post
-more-cops-killed-by-their-own-gun-than-straw-purchases
/

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Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Autopsy hired by the Brown family themselves shows no gun wounds in the back ...


Hmmm. No one said 'in the back'. However, one wound IN THE ARM could have come from either direction. Your sources - and your mind - full of snakes. Can't seem to grasp simple reality and keep it straight.

Interesting that you should NOW be waiting for facts. Why don't you go back and erase all the bogus stuff unsupported by facts that you so freely posted earlier? It would make this thread a lot shorter.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:26 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Well however this pans out, it is only right and fitting that a police shooting is carefully scrutinised and the officer be held accountable. And then to consider the training and tactics of the armed force in how they deal with the citizenry, even those members of the citzenry that may be threatening.

You dont want a heavily armed policeforce that feels above the laws of the land and entitled to use deadly force except in extreme circumstances. Otherwise you have marshall law.

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Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA



As mentioned, timeline of events.

Everything That Went Wrong in Ferguson
A timeline of the authorities’ many missteps in the aftermath of Michael Brown’s death.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/08/fergu
son_police_timeline_a_comprehensive_chronological_accounting_of_the.html


Oh, and btw, that whole claim of eye socket damage was obviously bogus from the get go, handily debunked by the video of the aftermath of the shooting.
Duh.
Not that the Ferguson PD can keep their many lies straight anyways.

-Frem

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