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...

"Basically, Japanese people are very law-abiding. We have been taught not to swim when there are no lifeguards," he says. "Same with traffic lights. You don't see many people jaywalk here do you?"

It's true. Even along car-free country lanes, people tend to wait patiently for the cross signal.

What happens on 1 September is that lifeguards vanish, because local authorities pull them from the beaches and close all amenities. Summer-season beach bars and restaurants are also meekly dismantled.

"Many of us are so submissive to authority that we will never think to challenge the status quo," says Sato.

Indoctrination starts at school. Children are drilled: "Follow the rules. Don't be selfish. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."

They learn that custom decreed long ago that autumn (the time you halt beach trips and instead do autumny things) returns at midnight on 31 August precisely. Only a barbarian would be foolish enough to disregard "correct behaviour" that has been established over generations by broad consent.

"Most Japanese are very conscious of the 'four seasons' and what they should do for each season," another Tokyoite and beach lover, Yukiko Oono, tells me.

...

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The official history confirms Hirohito’s bullheadedness in delaying surrender when it was clear that defeat was inevitable. He hoped desperately to enlist Stalin’s Soviet Union to obtain more favorable peace terms. Had Japan surrendered sooner, the firebombing of its cities, and the two atomic bombings, might have been avoided.

Why does all this matter, nearly 70 years since the end of the war?

Unlike Germany, where acceptance of responsibility for the Nazis’ crimes is embedded in government policy, Japan’s government has never engaged in a full-scale reckoning of its wartime conduct. This is partly because of the anti-imperialist dimension of the war it fought against Western powers, and partly because of America’s support for European colonialism in the early Cold War. But it is also a result of a deliberate choice — abetted by the education system and the mass media, with notable exceptions — to overlook or distort issues of accountability.

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Originally posted by second:
Want to know about the Japanese? Look at the 61-volume official biography of Emperor Hirohito about to be published. The Japanese are pushed around by their teeny-tiny hierarchy and the results are terrible for ordinary Japanese. But do they revolt against the hierarchy? No. They are 127 million robots taking orders from only 300,000 leaders and then marching to their deaths. BANZAI!

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The official history confirms Hirohito’s bullheadedness in delaying surrender when it was clear that defeat was inevitable. He hoped desperately to enlist Stalin’s Soviet Union to obtain more favorable peace terms. Had Japan surrendered sooner, the firebombing of its cities, and the two atomic bombings, might have been avoided.

Why does all this matter, nearly 70 years since the end of the war?

Unlike Germany, where acceptance of responsibility for the Nazis’ crimes is embedded in government policy, Japan’s government has never engaged in a full-scale reckoning of its wartime conduct. This is partly because of the anti-imperialist dimension of the war it fought against Western powers, and partly because of America’s support for European colonialism in the early Cold War. But it is also a result of a deliberate choice — abetted by the education system and the mass media, with notable exceptions — to overlook or distort issues of accountability.

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www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/opinion/hirohito-string-puller-not-puppet.h
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The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's pretty unusual for countries to take responsibility for their wartime actions, atrocities or otherwise. Germany is an incredible exception, and I guess they really had no choice.

Most countries, cultures write history to show themselves as the heroic victors or the innocent victims. In war, both are usually fabricated stories.

It was an interesting decision allowing the Japanese Emperor to remain in power, albeit as just a figure head, at the end of the war.

I dont find Japanese culture at all creepy, it's just a different culture, some parts I dont like and some I admire.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's pretty unusual for countries to take responsibility for their wartime actions, atrocities or otherwise. Germany is an incredible exception, and I guess they really had no choice.

Most countries, cultures write history to show themselves as the heroic victors or the innocent victims. In war, both are usually fabricated stories.

It was an interesting decision allowing the Japanese Emperor to remain in power, albeit as just a figure head, at the end of the war.

I dont find Japanese culture at all creepy, it's just a different culture, some parts I dont like and some I admire.

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Mostly, history is written by the victors.
That is why the Japanese example is particularly atrocious.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Mostly, history is written by the victors.
That is why the Japanese example is particularly atrocious.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Jeeesh, give the Japanese a break! They atoned ... they atoned plenty! They gave us transistor radios, Godzilla, Rodan, Benihana, Kurosawa movies, tin toys, karate schools, Sony, Panasonic, Yamaha, and Mitsubishi cars, motorcycles, and electronics.

What else do ya want ... an apology note with a Whitman Sampler?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Jeeesh, give the Japanese a break! They atoned ... they atoned plenty! They gave us transistor radios, Godzilla, Rodan, Benihana, Kurosawa movies, tin toys, karate schools, Sony, Panasonic, Yamaha, and Mitsubishi cars, motorcycles, and electronics.

What else do ya want ... an apology note with a Whitman Sampler?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Jeeesh, give the Japanese a break! They atoned ... they atoned plenty! They gave us transistor radios, Godzilla, Rodan, Benihana, Kurosawa movies, tin toys, karate schools, Sony, Panasonic, Yamaha, and Mitsubishi cars, motorcycles, and electronics.

What else do ya want ... an apology note with a Whitman Sampler?

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Datsun? Toyota? Lexus? Honda? Anime? hello?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Jeeesh, give the Japanese a break! They atoned ... they atoned plenty! They gave us transistor radios, Godzilla, Rodan, Benihana, Kurosawa movies, tin toys, karate schools, Sony, Panasonic, Yamaha, and Mitsubishi cars, motorcycles, and electronics.

What else do ya want ... an apology note with a Whitman Sampler?

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Datsun? Toyota? Lexus? Honda? Anime? hello?

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Oh yeah, anime. Teenage girls love that stuff!

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I'm not suggesting that its healthy of them not to acknowledge the atrocities they committed during the war, just saying that it's not unusual or creepy

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So a big ??? from me.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I'm not suggesting that its healthy of them not to acknowledge the atrocities they committed during the war, just saying that it's not unusual or creepy

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I disagree, I think a nation being in denial about atrocities committed on such a massive scale is unusual.

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So a big ??? from me.

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It's the slavish relationship the Japanese have with authority that worries me. Such unquestioning submission to authority makes me think of concentration camp guards 'just following orders'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Anime? hello?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Anime? hello?

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I never got anime. Never did appeal to me. Too over dramatic and simplistic, at the same time. Despite the cool visuals, it bores me.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I'm not suggesting that its healthy of them not to acknowledge the atrocities they committed during the war, just saying that it's not unusual or creepy

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I disagree, I think a nation being in denial about atrocities committed on such a massive scale is unusual.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Anime? hello?

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I never got anime. Never did appeal to me. Too over dramatic and simplistic, at the same time. Despite the cool visuals, it bores me.

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Are you Japanese? Do you buy other Japanese stuff? Or are you more patriotic and buy only the Chinese stuff at Walmart?

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On May 10, the Summer Olympics were inaugurated at the Greek birthplace of the ancient games. A few days before, virtually unnoticed, the government of Vietnam addressed a letter to the International Olympic Committee expressing the "profound concerns of the Government and people of Viet Nam about the decision of IOC to accept the Dow Chemical Company as a global partner sponsoring the Olympic Movement."

Dow provided the chemicals that Washington used from 1961 onward to destroy crops and forests in South Vietnam, drenching the country with Agent Orange.

These poisons contain dioxin, one of the most lethal carcinogens known, affecting millions of Vietnamese and many U.S. soldiers. To this day in Vietnam, aborted fetuses and deformed infants are very likely the effects of these crimes -- though, in light of Washington's refusal to investigate, we have only the studies of Vietnamese scientists and independent analysts.

Joining the Vietnamese appeal against Dow are the government of India, the Indian Olympic Association, and the survivors of the horrendous 1984 Bhopal gas leak, one of history's worst industrial disasters, which killed thousands and injured more than half a million.

Union Carbide, the corporation responsible for the disaster, was taken over by Dow, for whom the matter is of no slight concern. In February, Wikileaks revealed that Dow hired the U.S. private investigative agency Stratfor to monitor activists seeking compensation for the victims and prosecution of those responsible.

Another major crime with very serious persisting effects is the Marine assault on the Iraqi city of Fallujah in November 2004.

Women and children were permitted to escape if they could. After several weeks of bombing, the attack opened with a carefully planned war crime: Invasion of the Fallujah General Hospital, where patients and staff were ordered to the floor, their hands tied. Soon the bonds were loosened; the compound was secure.

The official justification was that the hospital was reporting civilian casualties, and therefore was considered a propaganda weapon.

Much of the city was left in "smoking ruins," the press reported while the Marines sought out insurgents in their "warrens." The invaders barred entry to the Red Crescent relief organization. Absent an official inquiry, the scale of the crimes is unknown.

If the Fallujah events are reminiscent of the events that took place in the Bosnian enclave of Srebrenica, now again in the news with the genocide trial of Bosnian Serb military commander Ratko Mladic, there's a good reason. An honest comparison would be instructive, but there's no fear of that: One is an atrocity, the other not, by definition.

As in Vietnam, independent investigators are reporting long-term effects of the Fallujah assault.

Medical researchers have found dramatic increases in infant mortality, cancer and leukemia, even higher than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Uranium levels in hair and soil samples are far beyond comparable cases.

One of the rare investigators from the invading countries is Dr. Kypros Nicolaides, director of the fetal-medicine research center at London's King's College Hospital. "I'm sure the Americans used weapons that caused these deformities," Nicolaides says.

The lingering effects of a vastly greater nonatrocity were reported last month by U.S. law professor James Anaya, the U.N. rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples.

Anaya dared to tread on forbidden territory by investigating the shocking conditions among the remnants of the Native American population in the U.S. -- "poverty, poor health conditions, lack of attainment of formal education (and) social ills at rates that far exceed those of other segments of the American population," Anaya reported. No member of Congress was willing to meet him. Press coverage was minimal.

Dissidents have been much in the news after the dramatic rescue of the blind Chinese civil-rights activist Chen Guangcheng.

"The international commotion," Samuel Moyn wrote in The New York Times last month, "aroused memories of earlier dissidents like Andrei D. Sakharov and Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, the Eastern bloc heroes of another age who first made 'international human rights' a rallying cry for activists across the globe and a high-profile item on Western governments' agendas."

Moyn is the author of "The Last Utopia: Human Rights in History," released in 2010. In The New York Times Book Review, Belinda Cooper questioned Moyn's tracing the contemporary prominence of these ideals to "(President Jimmy) Carter's abortive steps to inject human rights into foreign policy and the 1975 Helsinki accords with the Soviet Union," focusing on abuses in the Soviet sphere. She finds Moyn's thesis unpersuasive because "an alternative history to his own is far too easy to construct."

True enough: The obvious alternative is the one that James Peck provides, which the mainstream can hardly consider, though the relevant facts are strikingly clear and known at least to scholarship.

Thus in the "Cambridge History of the Cold War," John Coatsworth recalls that from 1960 to "the Soviet collapse in 1990, the numbers of political prisoners, torture victims, and executions of nonviolent political dissenters in Latin America vastly exceeded those in the Soviet Union and its East European satellites." But being nonatrocities, these crimes, substantially traceable to U.S. intervention, didn't inspire a human-rights crusade.

Also inspired by the Chen rescue, New York Times columnist Bill Keller writes that "Dissidents are heroic," but they can be "irritants to American diplomats who have important business to transact with countries that don't share our values." Keller criticizes Washington for sometimes failing to live up to our values with prompt action when others commit crimes.

There is no shortage of heroic dissidents within the domains of U.S. influence and power, but they are as invisible as the Latin American victims. Looking almost at random around the world, we find Abdulhadi al-Khawaja, co-founder of the Bahrain Center for Human Rights, an Amnesty International prisoner of conscience, now facing death in prison from a long hunger strike.

And Father Mun Jeong-hyeon, the elderly Korean priest who was severely injured while holding mass as part of the protest against the construction of a U.S. naval base on Jeju Island, named an Island of Peace, now occupied by security forces for the first time since the 1948 massacres by the U.S.-imposed South Korean government.

And Turkish scholar Ismail Besikci, facing trial again for defending the rights of Kurds. He already has spent much of his life in prison on the same charge, including the 1990s, when the Clinton administration was providing Turkey with huge quantities of military aid -- at a time when the Turkish military perpetrated some of the period's worst atrocities.

But these instances are all nonexistent, on standard principles, along with others too numerous to mention.

chomsky.info

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I could give you dozens of countries that have either not acknowledged atrocities or they have written their history in a way that justifies or minimizes atrocities, the US included.

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Granted parts of it are difficult to understand and accept, but I find your attitude of defining something this complex 'creepy' kind of ignorant and immature.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I could give you dozens of countries that have either not acknowledged atrocities or they have written their history in a way that justifies or minimizes atrocities, the US included.

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Really? You think dozens of countries compare to Japan in this respect? Few countries even compare to Japan in terms of atrocities committed: murdering 200,000+ in the rape of Nanking; starving and brutalising and murdering tens of thousands of POWs; forcing 400,000 women into sadistic forced prostitution - http://www.vice.com/read/seventy-years-later-japan-is-still-denying-th
e-systematic-sexual-slavery-of-chinese-comfort-women

And then 70 years later, the average Japanese person not knowing anything about these incidents, in a democracy?? I don't see how you can say that's the norm. There's only one country I can think of that's as seriously in denial about its awful history, and that's Turkey - but they're still a young (and imperfect) democracy. You bring up the USA, so let's look at the USA. Americans took land off the Native Americans - but this is well known and discussed. Slavery - ditto (also they inherited that from us, the British). The firebombing and atomic bombing of Germany and Japan in WW2 is well known and often debated - very brutal and morally questionable by today's standards but both served legitimate military aims, and helped shorten the war. They are morally ambiguous - not like Japan's massacring and sexually torturing hundreds of thousands just for the pure sadistic joy of it. So in conclusion Japan's sins are black and white, and barely acknowledged, whereas America's sins are more grey (some of them), and they are openly discussed and debated. Not really much comparison there for me.

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Perhaps I would find these cultural attitudes quirky and quaint and amusing, if not for the line that my mind draws between them and some extremely horrific wartime activities, that the society hasn't even begun to process and accept accountability for.

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A wave of rapes and sexual violence occurred in Central Europe in 1944–45, as the Western Allies and the Red Army fought their way into the Third Reich.[5] On the territory of the Nazi Germany, it began on 21 October 1944 when troops of the Red Army crossed the bridge over the Angerapp creek (marking the border) and committed the Nemmersdorf massacre before they were beaten back a few hours later.

The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers ranged up to 2 million.[1][6][7][8][9] In many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times.[10] At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports,[7] with an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath.[11] Female deaths in connection with the rapes in Germany, overall, are estimated at 240,000.[3][12] Antony Beevor describes it as the "greatest phenomenon of mass rape in history", and has concluded that at least 1.4 million women were raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia alone.[13]

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It is estimated that between 12 and 15 million ethnic Germans, including children, were systematically expelled, tortured, raped, put in camps, starved, enslaved and executed after World War II from 1944-1948, and later. Their only crime was being German. These actions were many cases government sanctioned and done in full knowledge of the victorious allies. To date, no one has ever been held accountable, and most do not know or do not acknowledge this genocide.

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it is by far and away the norm for countries to minimize their own actions in wars and conflict and to maximize their victim status. Yes, and even America does it.

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Did you check any of the links I provided?

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Yes, and even America does it. what seems grey to you as an american living on american soil probably does not seem grey to Native Americans

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quirky? quaint? amusing?

Have you been brought up in a box? Is that what you think about other cultures that you dont find 'creepy'?

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Originally posted by kpo:

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it is by far and away the norm for countries to minimize their own actions in wars and conflict and to maximize their victim status. Yes, and even America does it.

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Yes of course most if not all countries spin their history to some extent, or at least shine a positive light on it. But to equate that to denial or mass unacknowledgement of genocide and war crimes on a massive scale is incredible. Does Britain deny or unacknowledge its role in the slave trade? Does America deny practicing slavery for the first 100 years of its history? Does Germany deny the Holocaust? Does Belgium deny its barbarous rule of the Congo? I could go on, but the pattern is clear: mature democratic countries are open and reflective about their history, even the horrible aspects. Japan is an anamoly.

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Did you check any of the links I provided?

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Turkey, I mentioned - it is not a mature democracy like Japan. Indonesia ditto - and I doubt the unacknowledgement runs as deep. Russians (as far as I know) on the whole acknowledge the sins of the USSR, and consider themselves victims as well as the other peoples Moscow dominated. Algeria, it wasn't clear from the link whether the genocide has been covered up and denied or not.

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Yes, and even America does it. what seems grey to you as an american living on american soil probably does not seem grey to Native Americans

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I am sure Germans agree that the firebombing of their cities was morally grey. I didn't say all the things the USA has done are morally grey - in fact I specifically said 'some of them'.

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quirky? quaint? amusing?

Have you been brought up in a box? Is that what you think about other cultures that you dont find 'creepy'?

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You're getting carried away with your smug, liberal high-mindedness. Remember we were talking about particular cultural quirks: waiting for the little man to show green before crossing the road even on a deserted country road; everyone abandoning the beach on the 1st of September even though the weather is glorious because it is the 'official' end of summer. Yes, by themselves, I find these quirky, quaint and amusing.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I'm not suggesting that its healthy of them not to acknowledge the atrocities they committed during the war, just saying that it's not unusual or creepy

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I disagree, I think a nation being in denial about atrocities committed on such a massive scale is unusual.

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So a big ??? from me.

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It's the slavish relationship the Japanese have with authority that worries me. Such unquestioning submission to authority makes me think of concentration camp guards 'just following orders'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Not to cause an argument but the Japanese have been like this for centuries. It's burned into them so deep it will never leave. Not saying I understand it and I readily admit that I know little or nothing of their say prehistory.


Just thought I'd add that and also I am not creeped out by the Japanese and they didn't bother my dad and he fought in WW2 though in Europe.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by kpo:

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it is by far and away the norm for countries to minimize their own actions in wars and conflict and to maximize their victim status. Yes, and even America does it.

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Yes of course most if not all countries spin their history to some extent, or at least shine a positive light on it. But to equate that to denial or mass unacknowledgement of genocide and war crimes on a massive scale is incredible. Does Britain deny or unacknowledge its role in the slave trade? Does America deny practicing slavery for the first 100 years of its history? Does Germany deny the Holocaust? Does Belgium deny its barbarous rule of the Congo? I could go on, but the pattern is clear: mature democratic countries are open and reflective about their history, even the horrible aspects. Japan is an anamoly.

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Did you check any of the links I provided?

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Turkey, I mentioned - it is not a mature democracy like Japan. Indonesia ditto - and I doubt the unacknowledgement runs as deep. Russians (as far as I know) on the whole acknowledge the sins of the USSR, and consider themselves victims as well as the other peoples Moscow dominated. Algeria, it wasn't clear from the link whether the genocide has been covered up and denied or not.

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Yes, and even America does it. what seems grey to you as an american living on american soil probably does not seem grey to Native Americans

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I am sure Germans agree that the firebombing of their cities was morally grey. I didn't say all the things the USA has done are morally grey - in fact I specifically said 'some of them'.

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quirky? quaint? amusing?

Have you been brought up in a box? Is that what you think about other cultures that you dont find 'creepy'?

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You're getting carried away with your smug, liberal high-mindedness. Remember we were talking about particular cultural quirks: waiting for the little man to show green before crossing the road even on a deserted country road; everyone abandoning the beach on the 1st of September even though the weather is glorious because it is the 'official' end of summer. Yes, by themselves, I find these quirky, quaint and amusing.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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I had thought Germany denied the Holocaust. Copped to WWI and WWII, but had not to Holocaust.
One of the reasons Hogan's Heroes was reportedly a top comedy for their TV networks.

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All persons of Japanese descent were placed in to internment camps.

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I consider that an atrocity, the removal of these families liberties simply because they were Japanese and looked different.

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Magon also referenced my own ancestors and for the American Indian there is no grey or in Canada either on our treatment.

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The core of Confucianism is humanistic,[4] or what the philosopher Herbert Fingarette calls "the secular as sacred". Confucianism focuses on the practical order inscribed in a this-worldly awareness of the Tian and a proper respect of the gods (shen),[5] with particular emphasis on the importance of the family, rather than on a transcendent divine or a soteriology.[6] This stance rests on the belief that human beings are teachable, improvable, and perfectible through personal and communal endeavor especially self-cultivation and self-creation. Confucian thought focuses on the cultivation of virtue and maintenance of ethics. Some of the basic Confucian ethical concepts and practices include rén, yì, and li, and zhì. Ren is an obligation of altruism and humaneness for other individuals. Yi is the upholding of righteousness and the moral disposition to do good. Li is a system of ritual norms and propriety that determines how a person should properly act in everyday life. Zhi is the ability to see what is right and fair, or the converse, in the behaviors exhibited by others. Confucianism holds one in contempt, either passively or actively, for the failure of upholding the cardinal moral values of ren and yi.

Historically, cultures and countries strongly influenced by Confucianism include mainland China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam, as well as various territories settled predominantly by Chinese people, such as Singapore. In the 20th century, Confucianism’s influence has been greatly reduced. More recently, there have been talks of a "Confucian Revival" in the academia and the scholarly community.[7][8]

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Loyalty

Loyalty (Chinese: ?, zhong) is particularly relevant for the social class to which most of Confucius' students belonged, because the most important way for an ambitious young scholar to become a prominent official was to enter a ruler's civil service.

Confucius himself did not propose that "might makes right", but rather that a superior should be obeyed because of his moral rectitude. In addition, loyalty does not mean subservience to authority. This is because reciprocity is demanded from the superior as well. As Confucius stated "a prince should employ his minister according to the rules of propriety; ministers should serve their prince with faithfulness (loyalty)".[26]

Similarly, Mencius also said that "when the prince regards his ministers as his hands and feet, his ministers regard their prince as their belly and heart; when he regards them as his dogs and horses, they regard him as another man; when he regards them as the ground or as grass, they regard him as a robber and an enemy".[27] Moreover, Mencius indicated that if the ruler is incompetent, he should be replaced. If the ruler is evil, then the people have the right to overthrow him.[28] A good Confucian is also expected to remonstrate with his superiors when necessary.[29] At the same time, a proper Confucian ruler should also accept his ministers' advice, as this will help him govern the realm better.

In later ages, however, emphasis was often placed more on the obligations of the ruled to the ruler, and less on the ruler's obligations to the ruled. Like filial piety, loyalty was often subverted by the autocratic regimes in China. Nonetheless, throughout the ages, many Confucians continued to fight against unrighteous superiors and rulers. Many of these Confucians suffered and sometimes died because of their conviction and action.[30] During the Ming-Qing era, prominent Confucians such as Wang Yangming promoted individuality and independent thinking as a counterweight to subservience to authority.[31] The famous thinker Huang Zongxi also strongly criticized the autocratic nature of the imperial system and wanted to keep imperial power in check.[32]

Many Confucians also realized that loyalty and filial piety have the potential of coming into conflict with one another. This can be true especially in times of social chaos, such as during the period of the Ming-Qing transition.[33]

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Most recently, it's come down to 'if we do it, it's morally grey

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Somehow Turkey does not qualify. Are they too creepy and Muslim because as far as I can see they've had deocratic government longer than creepy little Japan, which has been fairly close to an Absolute Monarchy prior to the end of WW2.

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No apologies yet by the US government for their use of torture during recent military actions.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Magons

FWIW I find the processes by which the cultures write off whole swathes of people different - but not the end result. The Japanese may actively deny things - but here in the US we have our rationalizations and cultural callousness at the ready instead. The homeless? Lazy. Victims of Katrina? Foolish. Iraqis? Muslim. NA natives? Whachagonna do? it's all in the past and anyway, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. And so on. It's how we - and they - justify doing what we want to do.

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The rankings have nothing to do with maturity, but a number of political and social dimensions, including economy, health, gender, equity.

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And even on this basis, Turkey rates somewhere in the middle along side South Africa, and above Thailand, Indonesia, India and Malaysia.

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so give it up

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Originally posted by kpo:
Does Britain deny or unacknowledge its role in the slave trade? Does America deny practicing slavery for the first 100 years of its history? Does Germany deny the Holocaust? Does Belgium deny its barbarous rule of the Congo? I could go on, but the pattern is clear: mature democratic countries are open and reflective about their history, even the horrible aspects. Japan is an anomaly.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
How much are we really able to question authority in the west.

Military personnel are still trained to follow orders, otherwise armies just wouldn't function. In fact, being able to follow orders without question is a central tenet in enabling militaries to function. Refusing to follow an order or questioning authority can still lead to court martial and imprisonment (eg Bradley Manning) and not so long ago lead to death

As Frem said, all war is an atrocity. Most men would run and throw down arms in the face of certain death or injury, because lets face it, when we take up arms, it's generally not because the homestead is under attack. Armies rely upon men who have been trained to act not question in order to function.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
KPO>You're nitpicking history in an attempt to reinforce your own flawed argument that Japan is singular in it's denial of its atrocities.



so give it up, really. Your understanding of the Japanese culture is, at worst, racist and at best, just an ignorant view from someone so seeped in western cultural superiority that you can't acknowledge difference in other cultures without feeling weirded out by it.

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