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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Mistakes were made long before there even WAS a United States of America. And of course, more were made after.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Mistakes were made long before there even WAS a United States of America. And of course, more were made after.

Not all situations are the same.

Hell, thanks to the PC Nazis, even where folks DO try to honor the indigenous people, some lone idiot is " offended " and everything gets tossed in the garbage.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Who says? Imposing 21st century ethics and morality on events from the past is like trying to put the egg back into the chicken.... you might be able to force the issue, but the chicken ain't gonna be doing a happy dance any time soon.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh, you started off almost intelligently and then the Rightwingnut chip kicked in.

Perhaps if you read the article, you might have seen an example of how things might be different had different decisions been made in history and we could have had a conversation about that.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

It's not just about sports in my mind. Cars, clothes too feature what I consider inapporpriate titles. What if someone were to name a car "Irish", I am sure there would be someone up in arms about it.

Sports things like "redskin" are wrong because it takes away from the historic context of it. Bounties were paid on Indian heads that were scalped. The head was brought in without the body.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh yes, an astonishing number of languages and language roots in fact. Testimount to the enormous amount of history with which they have occupied this land. Probably at least 60,000 years.



Awhile ago, I read many People series books Kahttp:// www.gear-gear.com/index.php/the-books/people-books. I learnt a great deal about the people who lived on the Americas before white settlement, and I was surpised by the diversity of societies that existed regionally and historically. I'm interested in whether you have read, or heard of this series and what your thoughts are on it's accuracy.

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That is a fascinating map you posted Magon. I stepped out to take a closer look at it. An incredible array of languages spoken.

I've not heard of these books, so I had a look at your link and though the writers are scientists you have to keep in mind that they are writing for the general public. Which is why and also the first book came out in 1990, they are still referencing the land bridge.
It's known now that the interior of the American continent was still covered in ice. And new archaeological evidence has shown that the first Americans walked down the west coast of Canada and some of the US to get onto the continent. The ice free corridor wasn't ice free at 10,000years.

The earliest settlement that I know of is 30,000years and that is South America. Most tribes I would say have been here 25,000years.

The last to come over before the bridge melted were the Inuit, the people who live in the arctic regions of Canada and Alaska.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh, you started off almost intelligently and then the Rightwingnut chip kicked in.

Perhaps if you read the article, you might have seen an example of how things might be different had different decisions been made in history and we could have had a conversation about that.

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There was no 'rightwingnut ' chip which kicked in. I was referencing the lunacy of what's going on here in the states, the all out media shaming of some sports teams for their use of anything remotely having to do w/ native Americans as a mascot.

There are no completely right or wrong positions here.


Yeah, it would be nice if things had gone differently. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.


http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pict
ures/2014/9/25/1411614681191/04b03176-5c00-4aa6-99fb-acdef57d42ac-620x395.jpeg

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Don't recall the' N ' word ever being used as a compliment, or in a positive light.

However casually it may have been tossed around, it was used in a derogatory and demeaning manner.

And no TEAM I ever heard of proudly took on the banner of a name which was intentionally was derogatory to a group of people.

I doubt ' Go Gooks ! ' , or ' Whollup 'em Wops ! ' would make for endearing cheers.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

There actually WAS a team called the Crackers, here in Atlanta. A minor league professional baseball team.


No one whined about the name then.

From Wiki -


According to Tim Darnell, who wrote The Crackers: Early Days of Atlanta Baseball, the origins of the team name is unknown.[5]

Darnell cites several possibilities as to why this name was chosen:

A term that means a poor, white southerner.
Someone who is quick and efficient at a task.
In reference to plowboys who cracked the whip over animals.
A shortened version of "Atlanta Firecrackers", the earlier 1892 minor league team.

However, this list does not represent the most likely origins of the name. The term "cracker" is derived from the Gaelic "craic", meaning entertaining conversation or boasting.[6] It was used in the 18th century to denote Irish and Scottish colonists of the Deep South backcountry. The Earl of Dartmouth had this to say in a 1766 correspondence: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."[6]

During the period of Reconstruction following the American Civil War, there was also a political party of the same name. Organized in Augusta, Georgia, this party's platform was one of "opposition to Catholics and segregation of blacks."[7]

While now sometimes used as a derogatory term for a white southerner that promotes racism, it is also used as a term of pride by white southerners to indicate one that is descended from those original settlers of the area.[6] It is much more likely that the Atlanta Crackers derived their name from the more positive usage, indicating they were proud to be Georgians.

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Originally posted by Brenda:


I haven't seen the "Black Robe" but read the description on it and maybe it is something that I should check out as it seems to be a fairly accurate portrait of life in the east. The Iroquois were a violent people, the game of lacrosse that they invented was a blood sport to them. And it's true they had enemies amongst the other eastern tribes.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

"Dances with Wolves" is one of my favourites too, though I have heard people bad mouth it. That film saddens me too as it portrays the end of the Horse Culture of the plains Indians.

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I've never sat down and watched "Jeremiah Johnson" all the way through because I don't like Robert Redford.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

Cool on the actually visiting the site of the Little Big Horn. I've only seen it in documentaries. It is on my Bucket List. One of many sites and places I would like to see in the US.

Honestly, I'm not sure where Dances is suppose to be set. Might have been Kansas but the scenery for the film is fantastic.

So sue me. I prefeer his friend Paul Newman to him. I've seen "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" one too many times.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I'm not mad on Robert Redford either, but I liked him in JJ.

A NZ film about modern Maori culture is 'The Whale Rider' which I can recommend.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298228/]



I'll have to take a closer look at JJ. Might be able to find it on YouTube.

I've heard "The Whale Rider" is a good film.

I've seen one film on the Maori and it was called "Once Were Warriors". It's a modern film done in the 1980s, I think. It's a bit on the depressing side as it deals with alcoholism, an unfortunate trap that has plagued the American and Canadian Indian. So, I can recognize some parallels in it to here.

I just looked it up and it is set in 1994 and based on a book that was published in 1990.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110729

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I've seen it. very powerful and very depressing.

I just revisited 'I heard the owl call my name' I loved the book and remember the movie fondly, but it's not stood the test of time, sadly.