Political Views, Not Weather Influence Climate Beliefs

As interesting as that is 1kiki, didn't you and I already know that? ;)

I don't know if we're going to experience an end of the world type scenario any time soon because of what we're doing, but we are NOT doing the planet any good the way things are today.

My only "issue" with the bleeding hearts out there that want reform is that they want to take things too far too fast. I think you'd be amazed at the amount of conveniences you, yourself benefit from today that in some way owe their existence to damage we're causing to our planet.

I'm not going to name any of them. I'd just like you to think about your own life and how much different it would be if we actually, as a human race, lived in harmony with the planet.

You know me. I'm house rich and everything else poor. I'm pretty easily amused. Aside from food, I only spend about 500 bucks on any "consumer" goods a year and everything else goes to bills or what little I can squirrel away. I spend about 30 bucks on gasoline a month, max. I recycle.

I'd like to think that I have baby bunny tracks in the snow as a carbon footprint compared to most of the people I associate with. Whether it's out of a Need to be Green or a matter of necessity right now is beside the point.

The truth is, my carbon footprint due to even being a part of this "system" we have is 10 times larger than I could ever create on my own, simply from being a part of the system. I've had 7 things shipped to my door this year, for instance. How much gas was burned to get those things to my doorstep, even if it was free shipping? :)

I'm a right leaning Liberitarian, if I had to put a label on it... but I do agree very much that things need to change, for the sake of the future of life on this planet.

They just have to happen at a gradual pace.... kind of what like the rise in gas prices and everything else has slowly made families have to re-adjust their priorities, and separate the "wants" from the "needs"....

I know I'm not the only one who's spending behavior is entirely different than it was 10 years ago.....

If you're REALLY interested, take a moment to fill this letter to your congressman about maintaining subsidies for Wind Farms:

http://www.powerofwind.org/powerofwind/app/write-a-letter?0&engage
mentId=68053&lp=0

This is what my little bro does now. After college he spent a year or so installing solar panels on roofs before moving to the east coast for a great job. His job now sounds fascinating to me. He travels constantly and negotiates deals with farmers and homeowners on easement deals where new developments are being planned. Kid's damn near half my age, doesn't own a house, and is the only person I know who I can talk property taxes with. Where was he 3 years ago when I had to do all of that on my own? ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 12:18 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey - thanks for the reply and the link, 6-ix!

I try to be planet-friendly. I don't buy much 'stuff' except the things I intend to use, and do use, for years. I recycle, conserve water, use eco-friendly cleaners and whatnot, don't spray my plants, drive a car that gets 33mpg in real life, my appliances are energy-star rated, I use LED lights, recycled products, and so on ... but I REALLY don't know what my footprint is. I think it's lower than most, but is it at a level that's necessary?

Anyway - I truly appreciate your post. THANKS! so much for that.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:24 PM

America loves a winner!

Hugo Chavez, in rare honesty , showed AGW to be political & nothing else.

It's not about weather, climate or polar bears.

It's about redistribution of global wealth , promoting socialism & attacking capitalism.

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:25 PM

WHOZIT

While I was on that site I bought some test tubes.

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 7:49 PM

Global Warming was never about science, rather the absence of science (and math). It was always political.

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:52 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

While I was on that site I bought some test tubes.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but ok, what do you do with test tubes?

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Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:53 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Aaaannnd the anti-science crowd came out, I see. Because they have 'those' political views. Thanks for demonstrating so amply what the paper says.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:29 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Aaaannnd the anti-science crowd came out, I see. Because they have 'those' political views. Thanks for demonstrating so amply what the paper says.

So, when the science disproves the false eyewitness accounts of Michael Brown being shot in the back, we're suppose to ignore that, huh ?

Who are the actual science deniers here ?

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:40 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

being shot the back

Is that IN the back? Or FROM the back?

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:46 AM

America loves a winner!

EPA staffers linked to 'alleged serious misconduct,' agency reveals

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/02/epa-staffers-linked-to-alle
ged-serious-misconduct-agency-reveals/

EPA employees used government credit cards for gym memberships, gift cards, meals and even charity donations -- all from taxpayer funds

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579602/EPA-employees-used-gov
ernment-credit-cards-gym-memberships-gift-cards-meals-charity-donations-taxpayer-funds.html

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:23 AM

REAVERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, when the science disproves the false eyewitness accounts of Michael Brown being shot in the back, we're suppose to ignore that, huh ?

Who are the actual science deniers here ?

Nothing was proven because there will be no trial.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/newly-released-witness-testimony-t
ell-us-michael-brown-shooting/

Lots of conflicting witness testimony.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:17 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

Lots of conflicting witness testimony.

That tends to happen when witnesses ( hands up / don't shoot ) lie about things which never happened that day.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 2:40 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Global Warming was never about science, rather the absence of science (and math). It was always political.

This is true of the deniers, yes. The science and math you speak of quite clearly indicate the reality for those who chose to pay attention.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 2:41 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Aaaannnd the anti-science crowd came out, I see. Because they have 'those' political views. Thanks for demonstrating so amply what the paper says.

As if there was even a small chance they wouldn't rush to display their ignorance?

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 3:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Global Warming was never about science, rather the absence of science (and math). It was always political.

Going all the way back to the early days...

Quote:
In 1988, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, told editors and reporters of the Calgary Herald: “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Also, there's this gem...

Quote:
Also speaking at the Rio conference, Deputy Assistant of State Richard Benedick, who then headed the policy divisions of the U.S. State Department said: “A global warming treaty [Kyoto] must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the [enhanced] greenhouse effect.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-cl
imate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/

Screw the evidence, we'll make it up if we have to, but the goal remains the same.

Damn near the same exact message Hugo Chavez gave in Copenhagen, a few years ago

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 6:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, when the science disproves the false eyewitness accounts of Michael Brown being shot in the back, we're suppose to ignore that, huh ?

Who are the actual science deniers here ?
Nothing was proven because there will be no trial.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/newly-released-witness-testimony-t
ell-us-michael-brown-shooting/

Lots of conflicting witness testimony.

Obviously. When your race hustler comrades lie under oath, this will always conflict with the evidence and the witness testimony of honest witnesses. That will ALWAYS be the case - were you trying to make some point?

#pantsupdontloot

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Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Global Warming was never about science, rather the absence of science (and math). It was always political.

Going all the way back to the early days...
Quote:
In 1988, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, told editors and reporters of the Calgary Herald: “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Also, there's this gem...
Quote:
Also speaking at the Rio conference, Deputy Assistant of State Richard Benedick, who then headed the policy divisions of the U.S. State Department said: “A global warming treaty [Kyoto] must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the [enhanced] greenhouse effect.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-cl
imate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/

Screw the evidence, we'll make it up if we have to, but the goal remains the same.

Damn near the same exact message Hugo Chavez gave in Copenhagen, a few years ago

And even kpo is supporting RapKnight in the predictions thread.

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:02 PM

No wonder this thread died 1kiki. Sorry about the children misbehaving and staying completely off topic.

I thought you'd like to know that I did get a reply from my local Democratic senator Joe Donnelly.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about alternative and renewable energy tax credits. As your Senator, I believe our economy is stronger and our nation is more secure when our country is energy independent. That is why I support an all-in approach to American energy that includes investments in wind, nuclear, solar, natural gas, oil and renewables like Indiana biofuels.

As you may know, the renewable energy Production Tax Credit (PTC) expired at the end of 2013. The PTC was first enacted in 1992 and has been renewed various times over the past twenty years, including in January 2013 as part of the American Taxpayer Relief Act (P.L. 112-240).

On March 21, 2014, a number of my colleagues and I sent a letter to the Senate Finance Committee Chairman and Ranking Member urging them to include an extension of the PTC and Investment Tax Credit (ITC) as part of any tax extenders legislation the committee considers. On April 28, 2014, legislation that includes extensions for the PTC, ITC, and other tax credits, S. 2260, the Expiring Provisions Improvement Reform and Efficiency (EXPIRE) Act, was introduced in the Senate. If enacted, the bill would retroactively extend most temporary provisions for two years, from the end of last year through 2015. On May 15, 2014, the EXPIRE Act failed to receive the required 60 votes to clear a procedural hurdle to continue debate. Should the EXPIRE Act return to the floor of the Senate for a vote, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind.

Moving our nation to a future of energy independence is one of my top priorities in Congress. Indiana has been blessed with the resources to serve as a center for the production of a new generation of energy. Whether through the promotion of wind energy, biofuels, natural gas, or clean coal technology, I will work hard to make sure that Hoosiers are an important part of a new energy policy that is both affordable and clean.

It is a privilege to represent you and all Hoosiers in the U.S. Senate. Your continued correspondence is welcome and helps me to better represent our state. I encourage you to write, call, or email if my office can ever be of assistance. You can also check out my Facebook page and follow me on Twitter by visiting my website.

Honestly, I'd be hard pressed not to vote this guy back in when the opportunity arises. Overall, we are a very Right leaning state, so when we have a Democrat or two in the office I like to see that we agree on such an important issue for what seems to be the right reasons. I think it's good to have opposing voices in all levels of government and right now he's my Democrat vote next time I go to the polls.

Wind farms are pretty awesome. I never saw one up close until I helped my brother move out of his apartment before going to the east coast. Over 300 windmills spread out in a pattern the nations top engineers determined was the most efficient, as far as the eye could see in any direction. It didn't even seem that breezy out that day but aside from a few shut down for regular maintenance, they were all lazily spinning away.

I figured the blades were made out of some lightweight aluminum alloy, but my bro says that the blades are hollow-core and made of balsam wood and fiberglass.

Personally, I don't think we should stop installing these all around the country until we've got them everywhere outside of crowded urban areas.

Wind, otherwise, is a completely unharvested and wasted energy resource. If you didn't take advantage of it the second that it was occuring, well....

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No wonder this thread died 1kiki. Sorry about the children misbehaving and staying completely off topic.

Wind farms are pretty awesome. I never saw one up close until I helped my brother move out of his apartment before going to the east coast. Over 300 windmills spread out in a pattern the nations top engineers determined was the most efficient, as far as the eye could see in any direction. It didn't even seem that breezy out that day but aside from a few shut down for regular maintenance, they were all lazily spinning away.

I figured the blades were made out of some lightweight aluminum alloy, but my bro says that the blades are hollow-core and made of balsam wood and fiberglass.

Personally, I don't think we should stop installing these all around the country until we've got them everywhere outside of crowded urban areas.

Wind, otherwise, is a completely unharvested and wasted energy resource. If you didn't take advantage of it the second that it was occuring, well....
:)

So you deem yourself to have authority to subject those not in your backyard to the health problems resulting from wind turbine generators? Is it OK if we decide to store the nation's nuclear waste in your backyard?

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:41 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey Six

WOW! are we in agreement about renewables.

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:49 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Me too.

What is a Hoosier?

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:04 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hoo·sier
'ho?oZH?r/
noun
North American
noun: Hoosier; plural noun: Hoosiers

a native or inhabitant of Indiana.

The origin of the term remains a matter of debate within the state, but "Hoosier" was in general use by the 1840s, having been popularized by Richmond resident John Finley's 1833 poem "The Hoosier's Nest". Indiana adopted the nickname "The Hoosier State" more than 150 years ago.

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:10 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I probably could have looked it up, but thanks

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:12 PM

America loves a winner!

Also, mascot for a university in Indiana as well as a very fine movie starring Gene Hackman.

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Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:19 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Also, mascot for a university in Indiana as well as a very fine movie starring Gene Hackman.

Great performances also from Dennis Hopper and Barbara Hershey. Hopper was Oscar nominated for two movies that year, Hoosiers and Blue Velvet. He won for Hoosiers, but personally, I thought he was much better in Blue Velvet.

Jeesh, Blue Velvet! I remember when I got the video I must have watched it twenty times in a row. Had never seen anything like it. Years later I met Dean Stockwell at a sci-fi con in Tampa and asked him about it. He said it was one of his favorite roles.

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Monday, December 8, 2014 11:59 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, Six - I just wanted to mention that I didn't realize you were connected to that topic. It's nice to see you engaged.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2014 9:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So you deem yourself to have authority to subject those not in your backyard to the health problems resulting from wind turbine generators? Is it OK if we decide to store the nation's nuclear waste in your backyard?

I should clarify my position here for you JSF.

I don't know a thing about generators and what health problems could arise from them. I also was not suggesting that they be put up in urban/suburban areas. I actually did say that much in my post.

The farmers get a generous subsidy for having these installed on their property and allowing guys to come out for general maintenance without damaging the crops. As far as I know, and I wouldn't imagine it has ever happened, but I don't believe anybody was victimized by Eminent Domain to have these placed on their land. Now THAT, I WOULD have a problem with.

Unless there's some hard evidence that points to these generators creating abnormal food that makes people sick, I don't see what the problem here is. Even if this ended up being the case, I'm sure the generators could be installed high enough on the windmill to mitigate it.

I dunno man. Sometimes I just think you like being argumentative for argumentative's sake.

I know you were being sarcastic, but even in the absolute worst case scenario having a windmill in my back yard would be no where near as unhealthy as allowing you to dump your toxic waste there ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 16, 2014 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Six

WOW! are we in agreement about renewables.

I'm no crazy tree hugger, but I do my best. ;)

I'm glad my brother got into Wind Energy. He's very passionate about it, and I think he's one of the most "real" people I know. I just mean that he'd never be the type to just lie to everybody about how great Wind was just to save his job. I think maybe everybody does stuff like that by the time they're in their 40's and trying to put their kids through school, but he's not even married with kids yet and just a few years into it. He's still pretty naive about.... well... I admire it. Maybe I'm just a cynical ass? He wouldn't even be doing it if he didn't think he was doing good, let alone lie about it wittingly just to keep those tax dollars coming in.

I'm glad he got into it because just hearing him talk makes me talk just as passionately about it when it comes up in conversation. Not that it does that much, but I do enjoy talking about it and everything he's told me about it.

Quote:
So, Six - I just wanted to mention that I didn't realize you were connected to that topic. It's nice to see you engaged.

Thanks. It's nice to be engaged.

I'm no stranger to dealing with government agencies for things on my own behalf, but this is the first time I've ever contacted one for the "greater good".

Once again, I've got my brother to thank for that. ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 16, 2014 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Also, mascot for a university in Indiana as well as a very fine movie starring Gene Hackman.

BEST LEX LUTHOR EVER. PERIOD.

:)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:30 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Also, mascot for a university in Indiana as well as a very fine movie starring Gene Hackman.

BEST LEX LUTHOR EVER. PERIOD.

:)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Miss Tessmacher !!!

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Tuesday, December 16, 2014 8:35 PM