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Once a structure beneficial to some is established, those who benefit from it will continue to try and transform everything around them into what is beneficial to them. Conservatives are constantly changing the world they live in in such a way that they gain more and more from it. The US has altered the world massively to make it much easier for them to control it at least in the short term. The world can never remain the same it always changes due to the very action of the elements within it, human or otherwise.

This is the very basis of dialectical reasoning. That which is formed by an environment inevitably changes that very environment. The people in power transform the world in order to not only stay in power but to make it even easier for them to exploit it. This is the same behavior as all of the rest of us. We live in houses, we use cell phones, we have medicine... we are constantly altering the world in a way we think will benefit us, without however considering how we are altering future probable outcomes.

Conservatives behave the same way as the rest of the population. How could the western world have created the holocaust around us without the vast majority of its population disregarding what was happening and disregarding that they in fact were instrumental in enabling their rulers to succeed in this endeavor? The answer is simple and well embodied in XXX's line. "It is difficult to get a person to understand something, when their world-view or salary depends on them not understanding it." The west's world-view of exceptionalism, a view held by the Nazis as well, has justified some of the worst barbarities visited and continuing to be visited on this planet. XXX, the inclusion of world-view into that sentence was a very good inclusion.

ZZZ, your phrase: "So, they [conservatives] block out evidence which doesn't confirm their long held values and beliefs, or disrupt their world." I am afraid I have to disagree with this. I have had the chance to correspond with some people that very much belong to this class and what struck me the most troubling is that they do not block out evidence at all, in fact they make excellent use of it. They use it in order to know how to prevent the controlled population from reacting to it. Also they use it to benefit themselves.

Did you know that London bankers actually screen for psychopaths? They found that most people have ethical reservations that they seem unable to overcome. Psychopaths on the other hand can be counted on to do whatever benefits them and thus they can be counted on to act exactly as desired as long as they benefit. This makes them much better tools, dangerous, but much more predictable. Those controlling, being psychopaths themselves, obviously are not bothered by this but rather welcome it.

One individual I correspond with agrees completely with climate shift and sees opportunities for investment. I pointed out that the future prospects are very bleak and he said, "not for me". In discussing the Ukrainian situation I was struck at just how accurate his knowledge was of what was going on there. No delusional thinking for him. I pointed out that the economy is in total collapse. He agreed. I conjectured that in the long run it will turn out very bad for the EU. He agreed. However as far as he was concerned turmoil always provided profit if you knew how to respond. He shorted the Ukrainian currency, Hryvnia, well before it tanked. According to him he made a "killing". When I brought up the fact that there were a lot of people in dire straights he told me he was still trying to figure out how to capitalize on that but the situation of the Russians supplying the aid made it very difficult. Presently he is buying Rubles since he is pretty sure that it is close to the bottom and it will rebound in at most two years. He did this in the 90s and it paid off handsomely.

I find that many people confuse the propaganda with the beliefs of the people spreading that propaganda. I am not saying that all of them are rational, but I am saying that the ones that succeed very much are. Even in their world those who do not confuse their ideas with reality have a major advantage.

The human environment, like all environments, have predators, parasites and prey. The more energetic the predators the fewer they are since a lot larger population of prey are required to support them. The predator to prey ratio among cold blooded animals is something around 1 in 3. Among warm blooded animals it is closer to 1 in 25 to 1 in 100. The predators among us are very energetic, they tend not to lie to themselves, are true psychopaths, and they are voracious. Do not confuse the lackeys for those who are really in power. The vassals lie to themselves so they can ingratiate themselves to the predators in order to feed on the crumbs passed their way. The top 500 people in the world own as much wealth as the rest of the planet. They did not get their by being delusional or by ignoring evidence. They got their because they paid very close attention to the evidence, understood how to make use of it, are totally ruthless and very much want you to believe that they are delusional and evidence free.

It acts as their camouflage. If everyone understood just how clearly and intentionally they are gutting this world it would be hard for them to continue to operate.

It is delusional of the prey to believe that their predator is delusional. It is even more delusional of the prey to believe that there are no predators but just misguided prey.

// Ignorance is a necessary ingredient for oppression.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's a necessary ingredient for a lot of things.

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You geniuses think you're the only ones that figured that out. Yes, ignorance comes in many forms, not the least of which belongs to the misinformed.

For some it comes in the Giant, Extra Large Family Pack.-SGG

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So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.

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I would behest you who are judging this country and its president to look into a mirror to witness what sh@t piles you have become.

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Originally posted by G:
.
I love how you create this "other" group, this peasant class "basket," that you try to put everyone into who doesn't think like you no matter how you have to lie or defame or twist the facts. Who's the psychopath??? I definitely know who your vassal is.

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Presenting me as a corporate loving person

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No one on this site thinks that way.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.b]

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*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?

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Originally posted by Kiki:
And still no criticism of Kiev targeting civilians.
Originally posted by G:
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.

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I've asked you many times to discuss your moral qualms -if any- about US policy in general, and you strenuously avoided it. -SIGNY
You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture?-G

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The whole topic of the USA rampaging through the world and killing -literally- millions of people was so uninteresting that you didn't notice all of the cites previously posted? Couldn't care to follow up on it? You're either an amazing hypocrite or a world-class troll. Your lack of moral backbone was evident then and it's even more evident now.-SIGNY

Which you are funding btw. Unless you think whining on a forum absolves you some how.

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ARE you a Nazi sympathizer?- SIGNY

ARE YOU? You fund US involvement in the Ukraine - you should change your username to SigHeil!-

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Well, maybe yes. You seem to be protecting the Nazis in Kiev, and you DO seem to like killing people, as long it's people you don't care about. If the shoe fits, honey, you should wear it. -SIGNY

Wait, you quote me where I say I don't give a shit about Kiev, and then you say I am protecting Kiev... surely even you can see how dumb that is.

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Hmmm... with you living in very expensive Cali, and a 2 income household, & hubby in tech, you are way ahead of me in terms of how many drones you've purchased with your tax dollars to kill innocent civilians. Now THAT is poetical irony! It's always the people that bitch the most...

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Really, what do you expect to accomplish by killing millions, displacing tens of millions, and torturing hundreds of thousand?

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So yeah, totally bat shit crazy.

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I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.

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You and Signym - when people don't agree you either insult or make sh*t up or both. Cites?-G

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*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?-G

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You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture? -G

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Ive posted ad nauseum about what the United States has done. Post after post, cite after cite. A whole long laundry list of one democracy after another that we toppled, only to replace it with a tyranny which practiced torture on its people,- SIGNY

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All you have to do is look at this list
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

I've cross-referenced this site against other online sources, (Wikipedia etc) and found it to be factual. Or, if you don't like this list, just search [any nation]+CIA or [any nation]+ United States + intervention + invasion. It doesn't take much to educate yourself.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.

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As of now, G, probably the only person who claims not to know what I'm talking about is you.

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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have absolutely, positively no freaking clue what I was even talking about.

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And we killed 100,000+ in Iraq, about 30,000 in Afghanistan, who knows how many in Libya, and helped set up the situation in Syria where 150,000+ were killed. So on your scale of civilian deaths USA >> Russia >> Kiev >> separatists. BTW, when I brought up deaths caused by the USA before, you thought bringing up other wars and other nations was off-topic. I'm glad to see that you're expanding your view. Maybe now you'll start addressing those other nations, including the USA.... And, if these are serious acts of aggression against Ukraine, does that mean that the USA is also committing serious acts of aggression against many other nations? -SIGNY

Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.

If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]

Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?

This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel. If you want to play the intellectual you can't make those kinds of bonehead statements.

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Clearly, if one is being honest and only believes some of the reports, Russia is much more aggressive of the 2 and has acted illegally in so far as international law goes.

What Russia is doing is a much more interesting story than Ukraine's.

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"And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev."

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So Signy, Kiki. Who is to blame when such a civilian area gets hit by retaliatory fire (not to mention the civilian areas the separatists were firing at)?

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Do you have any proof Ukrainian troops killed those citizens?
So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)
We love to try and kill each other because it's fun!
I'VE NEVER OWNED A BORDERS... BESIDES, BORDERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS YEARS AGO. Keeping dead bodies in a Borders... creepy.
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
I am in favor of dead civilians - both sides, and especially innocent ones. Average people should be slaughtered enmass. Frankly, this world would be better without them..

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I respond because it gives me pleasure to tear down conceited types such as you and Signym.

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It has become common place for people to describe events and people they know nothing about. Our populace makes claims to knowledge they do not and never did possess. Rather they repeat the speaking points pouring out of their corporate media as if it was indisputable facts even when a cursory examination of what is occurring around them would disprove those very beliefs and arguments. It seems that our population finds it irresistible to lie in the cocoon of the confabulated reality that their masters have spun them. Yet they regurgitate this virtual reality inculcated in their consciousness as if it had sprung full blown from their own observation of facts. Their theories put to even rudimentary examination for logic and factual coherence rarely survive the first pass yet they persist in repeating them. Regardless of all evidence and rational discourse they crawl back into the cocoon and recite their ritualistic mantras.

Intelligence requires judgment. Judgment requires acceptance of error. And above all it requires freedom. Freedom from gain, prejudice, pride, nationalism, exceptionalism and hubris.

Freedom is not a gift, it is a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one.

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Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath

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I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia, as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all of the slander started, I've become nearly obsessed with understanding his character. I think I've read every major speech he has given (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone "talk-ins" with Russian citizens). I've been trying to ascertain whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he never anticipated––and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances. If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks for his performance over the past 14 years. It's not by accident that Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama who was given the title for 2012. The following is my one personal experience with Putin.

The year was 1992: It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was St.Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities. A new program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small, dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the proposal I provided he began asking intelligent questions. After each of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans' requests. CCI stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, "Volodya, this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who didn't ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!" I remember looking at his business card in the sunlight––it read Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin....

March 2000: I arrived in St.Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, "Lena what do you think about your new president?" She laughed and retorted, "Volodya! I went to school with him!" She began to describe Putin as a quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went to law school, later reapplied and was accepted. I must have grimaced at this, because Lena said, "Sharon in those days we all admired the KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were keeping the country safe. We thought it was natural for Volodya to choose this career. My next question was, "What do you think he will do with Yeltsin's criminals in the Kremlin?" Putting on her psychologist hat, she pondered and replied, "If left to his normal behaviors, he will watch them for a while to be sure what is going on, then he will throw up some flares to let them know that he is watching. If they don't respond, he will address them personally, then if the behaviors don't change–– some will be in prison in a couple of years." I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to show up in real time.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
That about sums up RWED. People speaking as experts about stuff they no little or nothing about.

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Negative assumption #1
Example: "You have never said you don't eat babies, so I'll assume you do."
Truth is, as I have stated many times, just as you do (though you continue to think you are the only one who knows this) I already know about America's atrocities. It's actually old fucking news. Your stats, and accusations are not private knowledge. This is going to come as a shock to your ego... but people *besides yourself* actually read and comprehend what they are reading.

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Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.
If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]
Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?
This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel.

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Unlike you I realize that bitching endlessly on a forum is not action - it's pandering if anything. You will effect no change posting here. Maybe you don't let yourself understand that to protect your ego?

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Maybe you think no one should be interested in what Russia is doing? That seems to be what you are advocating. So maybe we should have a forum that only posts about the US atrocities then and nothing eles, nothing about Firefly just All US, All Bad, all the time? Maybe you should start a tv channel?-G

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68th time: because I don't know their story very well - it's the freedom to be curious. Maybe we should outlaw certain kinds of curiosity? Please tell me what I can be interested in. Are you sure you aren't Russian? You have certain parallel traits about restricting what people can be interested in.

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And now for the mother of all negative presumptions, the lie that keeps on giving:
How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ... -SIGNY
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.- G

In context, if you are honest (!) it was clear I didn't give a shit about Kiev propaganda - keep spinning though - it only shows your desperation. Go ahead, find this exchange:
"How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ..."
You can't because it didn't happen, because you made it up. It's not even a good lie.

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I really can't argue or discuss a topic with people that just make shit up as they go along. Your whole "Kiev is killing thousands of civilians" is the only defense you have for Russia's actions. I'll ask again: why are so determined to defend Russia? And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.

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So Signy, Kiki. Who is to blame when such a civilian area gets hit by retaliatory fire (not to mention the civilian areas the separatists were firing at)?-G

A legitimate question. It's war, people shoot at each other. If you put guns next to civilians you endanger them - simple. Keep refusing to believe it though.-G

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Your response to the repeated question "Do you support the shelling and killing of civilians to maintain a national boundary?" Deflect, deflect, deflect and deflect.-SIGNY

No, my response was I had already answered that question. As recently posted, from page one of the thread even, you even quoted me! "So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)" I can't *make* you understand English better.

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Obvious humor in response to your super inane questions, and a clear dig at you for wishing 3 of us into non-existence (if that's not dead then I don't know what it is)

We love to try and kill each other because it's fun! (ironic comment about man's inhumanity toward man)
I'VE NEVER OWNED A BORDERS... BESIDES, BORDERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS YEARS AGO. Keeping dead bodies in a Borders... creepy. (play on words, Borders book store going out of business? Hey, you made so much shit up I was bored, took a different tact)
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled. (hilarious play on words!)
I am in favor of dead civilians - both sides, and especially innocent ones. Average people should be slaughtered enmass. Frankly, this world would be better without them. (deadpan humor lost on the humorless, and a clear dig at you)
Not surprised if you don't understand humor, or just don't want to acknowledge it.

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And your view of other posters
I respond because it gives me pleasure to tear down conceited types such as you and Signym.

Totally true - I've never seen such conceit and such lying by someone who professes to be so intelligent. If you are as smart as you'd like us to believe, you could just be honest and win the day, yes?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath

You, THUGR, are doing exactly what my friend described. The reality is, you don't know shit about Putin. You've never met the man, you've never listened to people who HAVE worked with him (including the US Consul General who is quoted liberally in this article), you haven't listened to his speeches or read anything of his history or what he's done. All you know is what the press had hammered in your head for the past six months: Putin is a bad, bad man, An evil man. A megalomaniac. A tyrant. A despot wanting to take over the world

It would probably help you if actually learned something of which you opine so freely.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, what IS your knowledge of Putin? The reason why I assume that you don't know anything about him is because you haven't revealed any knowledge of him.

Do you know, for example, WHY Yeltsin appointed him? It's an interesting story that gets even more interesting with research.

You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.

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My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.

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