REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Poroshenko on the utility of the previous cease-fire: Combat capabilities have been fully restored

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, February 16, 2015 17:04
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VIEWED: 1983
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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


One may be forgiven for thinking that the latest cease-fire won't do very much. Maybe it's because (according to Poroshenko) cease-fires are only good for recouping and re-grouping. According to Count Chocula, the previous cease-fire allowed them to fully restore their equipment and personnel, and now the UAF is ready to start eradicating at with great efficiency again!



That's what Poroshenko says, anyway.

So, where did the UAF get all of those fancy counter-battery and counter-mortar systems, and trucks, night-vision goggles and sniper-rifles, eh?


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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Also, a number of battalions - either formally previously under control of the UAF, or Nazi volunteers- have split with Kiev on the cease fire. 17 former UAF battalions are reported to have pulled out of the UAF.

Much is made by western press that Poroshenko has not signed the cease-fire deal, but I think the negotiators realized that if they required Poroshenko's signature (instead of Kuchma) Poroshenko would be "democratically" deposed from government, just like the President before him, if not outright killed.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 10:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

get ready for another sh*t storm of Russian Trolling! "Ukraine was the first to break the cease fire!" and endless variations.
Because, of course, based on Count Chocula's personal, videotaped expressions of cynicism and the history of the previous cease fire, one would NEVER expect UAF or Nazi troops of attacking first! Never!

I seem to recall Count Chocula making a brave proclamation just before the last military push that's what the UAF was going to do, then someone thought to clue him in "Ixnay on the invasion talk" because they were planning on using the rebel's response as yet another excuse to whinge about "Soviet invasion". I even pointed it out at the time... several times. And here we go again!

Yanno, G, even when you are given a personal, videotaped statement from the President of Ukraine himself on what he intends to do (or at least has to say what he intends to do, because of pressure placed on him by his rightwing) you STILL don't believe it. Yes, I know- in your mind, Putin is the aggressor. Nothing will ever dislodge that idea.

What do you need- an engraved invitation to the truth?

I'll bet that wouldn't work either!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 11:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm sure you would appreciate a more "balanced" view of things.

Fighting rages at Debaltseve. The rebels have the UAF surrounded, ~ 8000 UAF are trapped in a "cauldron" in a place which is strategically important, not only as a transportation and water hub, and as "the" point where the UAF had intended to split Donetsk from Luhansk, but also as the last part of the line of contact still in contention.

According to DPR-LPR



The rightwing has made an attempt to take some small hamlets in the non-man's land just east of Mariupol, apparently breaking in long enough to take photos (to be used as evidence, I presume, in drawing the ling of contact) before being chased out again.

The split of so many troops from the official UAF so far has only been reported by Russian-speaking bloggers.



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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 11:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yarosh, the leader of the rightwing Right Sector (Pravy Sektor) wants to create a "parallel General Staff" (ie an armed forces leadership independent of Poroshenko) near Dnepropetrovsk, according to Ukrainian and Russian sources. (Your western media will never tell you this.)

http://www.unian.info/war/1037892-yarosh-volunteers-and-part-of-milita
ry-may-set-up-parallel-general-staff.html


Poroshenko's push to disband the Aidar battalion (another rightwing group, like the Azov battalion) ended in failure when members demonstrated in Kiev and threatened to riot.

The rightwing was a major instigator of the violence which ousted Yanukovich. As a reward, they were given top positions in the Interior Ministry. However, they're not loyal to Poroshenko, and have other plans for the future of Ukraine.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here is an excellent analysis of Poroshenko's no-win situation
Quote:

Lizan outlines Poroshenko’s quandary quite well, but in fact the situation is even worse for him.

For starters, Poroshenko clearly expected that the Minsk meeting would consist of The Leaders of the Free World (Poroshenko included) bringing “Putler’s aggression” to heel.

Instead it turned out to be Vlad and Friends putting the hurt on Poroshenko. From just observing the facial expressions and the body language, it was clear that he was on the receiving end of some serious pressure. Lavrov's comment that the negotiations were going "better than super" was an early indication that Poroshenko walked into an ambush. What was the ambush intended to accomplish?

It would appear that Vlad’s Friends want Poroshenko to deal firmly with the Party of War in Kiev. It must have dawned on Merkel and Hollande (though the latter probably suspected this already) that the Kiev junta’s survival plan consists solely of hoping to provoke a large-scale conflict with Russia that would trigger a new Cold War on the European continent, and result in Ukraine being an “advanced forpost of the Western civilization”, an Israel of Eastern Europe of sorts, which in turn would mean billions and billions of dollars of economic and military aid. And the junta has no other plan. It never had any other plan. Its objective from the start was to provoke Russia (starting with “FSB snipers on the Maidan” and the moves to transfer the Sevastopol naval base to the US Navy) into doing something.

Well, they succeeded. Russia “did something” [supply the DPR-LPR- SIGNY]. It was only then that they discovered their miscalculation — the West does not have billions laying around to spend on kleptocratic Ukrainians with delusions of grandeur. Undaunted, they continued to escalate the situation, until the Europeans finally decided to step in, lest a full-scale great power war erupt on the European continent. First they apparently successfully convinced the Biden administration to kindly butt out by categorically ruling out deliveries of weapons to Ukraine. Then they pulled the plug on Kiev.

Poroshenko’s “mission impossible,” as it was evidently communicated to him by Hollande and Merkel, is to rein in the “war party” [Turchinov, Yarosh etc- SIGNY] in Kiev by any means possible and then get on with destroying, excuse me, reforming the Ukrainian economy, Greece-style. It’s no longer self-evident that any violation of the ceasefire will be automatically blamed on Novorossia or Russia, as it was in the past. It is totally self-evident that no IMF credits will be forthcoming unless Poroshenko finally starts acting in a responsible manner. Moreover, considering what conditions are invariably attached to IMF credits, Ukraine’s ability to wage war will likely quickly decline due to the draconian budget cuts. Whatever Yatsenyuk had planned for this year will likely be significantly reduced if Yaresko is to convince Western donors Ukraine is serious about cutting government spending, and at the moment defense is where most of the money is.

So yes, by all means, try to put yourself into Poroshenko’s shoes at this point. His best chance is to convince the “war party” that their best chance is to help him stay in power. This line of argument has the benefit of having considerable merit to it, because should the Right Sector/Turchinov/whoever topple Poroshenko, would the new junta count on any support from the West?

Probably not, but do Yarosh and Turchinov realize it? The assumption Poroshenko and other sponsors of the Maidan made in unleashing the neo-Nazis on Ukraine’s political scene was that billions of dollars of Western aid would improve the situation in the country to such an extent that these movements would be starved of popular support. Instead, due to the deteriorating situation and the two lost military campaigns, they are gaining in strength, and their main enemy no longer is located in Donbass.



http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/all-is-lost-poroshenko-after-mins
k-2.html



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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's almost like they have help or something.
For the ... 20th? time ... fuel, munitions, volunteers from other nations, satellite and other military intel, strategic advice, a few trainers. Humanitarian aid, and a very porous border. Nothing that you can definitively capture or point to.

Don't forget, there are a lot of military-age men who fled into Russia, latest estimate 1.2 million. Even a small fraction of those returning as trained troops would be a powerful force.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:20 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Nazi-collaborating fucks.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 12:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In other words, a Russian Invasion in all but name.
Oh, and official troops and lots and lots of tanks, rockets, and other heavy weapons.

THAT'S an invasion!

But, I see you're finally (FINALLY!) cluing in to what I've been saying all along about Russia's assistance to eastern and southern Ukraine. I have said this, literally, probably a dozen times by now, but somehow it just never seems to stick with you. You are so convinced that I'm such a biased, pro-Russian hack that anything I say that even smacks of criticism of Russia just slides right past you. Like I said, you read what you what to read and you don't see what you don't want to see. Not a good way to figure out what's going on.

So, what do you think of Poroshenko's situation? What do you think his plans are now? If you at least do this much, then we can find out in a couple of days whether you were able to predict events from the knowledge you now possess.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 14, 2015 6:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So the homegrown Ukie Nazis who have their knives at Poroshenko's back have nothing to do with his troubles?



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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Actually, mostly the Kyiv Post and Colonel Cassad and Vineyard of the Saker.
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/

Kyiv Post keeps me updated on what the Kiev government is saying. That's how I know that NATO just routinely repeats whatever Poroshenko spouts, like the nonsense of "9000 Russian troops". Also, Kiev sometimes announces military offensives, or brags about military successes, which helps me figure out "who started what when", without the post-historical editing which the western press so freely uses.


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Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Poroshenko will impose martial law if cease-fire fails

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/poroshenko-will-impose-
martial-law-if-cease-fire-fails-380663.html


Quote:

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said martial law will be introduced throughout Ukraine if the cease-fire fails to start at midnight tonight, as agreed in Minsk, Belarus, on Feb. 12.

“Even before Minsk... I warned that we will have to, if there is no peace, take a very difficult but necessary decision to introduce martial law," Poroshenko said today. “I stress once again that in this case the martial law will be introduced not just in Donetsk and Luhansk, but in the whole country."

Introduction of martial law means that Ukraine's army gets to control the streets and impose curfews, ban parties and other organizations, as well as mass gatherings, conduct searches and introduce censorship. It's also allowed to claim property of businesses and private individual if needed.



Apparently, Poroshenko is not a complete idiot, as there are a number of nasty-pills embedded in this threat. During this whole time, the Rada has been busy passing a number of forcible government "acquisitions" if martial law comes into effect: government seizure of private bank accounts (INCLUDING the oligarchs) and housing (INCLUDING the oligarchs) as well as curtailment of personal freedoms.

The oligarchs and Nazis are now forced to have some skin in the cease-fire game, since a failure would mean potential seizure of their assets. (I'm assuming they have not had a chance to convert/move their assets to foreign currency/foreign banks with the rapid fall of the hryvnia. Also, an estate in Ukraine is hard to move.)

Clever man! I was wondering where all these laws were going to. Now I know.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, February 16, 2015 5:04 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


An outrage. Ukraine uses the ceasefire to prepare combat capabilities... meanwhile the peace-loving separatists use the ceasefire to launch constant assaults on Ukrainian-held strategic targets.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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