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Kansas is close to telling poor families by law that they can't use cash assistance from the state to visit swimming pools, get tattoos or consult with psychics among a list of other things, leading critics to focus on whether tighter rules for social services will make life more unpleasant for the needy.

Republican Gov. Sam Brownback and his allies are emphasizing how they believe a social services bill approved by lawmakers this week helps move people from state assistance into decent jobs.

The bill puts policies imposed by Brownback's administration into state law, so they'll be harder to undo later. A key policy requires able-bodied adults receiving temporary cash assistance to work, be looking for a job, or to enroll in job training.


http://www.kctv5.com/story/28724273/kansas-set-to-prevent-poor-from-us
ing-aid-for-swimming-pools-psychics#ixzz3WgBuaGXQ

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
The swimming pool ban is a bit rough....

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
I doubt they do any of that, anyway. Can't afford it.

Yes, just more hate for the poor.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Meh, I don't understand your system in the States. It seems weird and draconian.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Or use government handouts to subsidise the shitty wages provided by corporations who expect the lowest strata of your country to work as semi slaves.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
I doubt they do any of that, anyway. Can't afford it.

Yes, just more hate for the poor.

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If they don't do that, then there is no harm in banning the use of public assistance to pay for what you claim they won't do.
You really are a complete failure in logic, aren't you?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Or use government handouts to subsidise the shitty wages provided by corporations who expect the lowest strata of your country to work as semi slaves.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

The poor are free enough to work harder and make more money , if they want. Many simply don't want to.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I'm not familiar with a lot of things Aussie.
Do you not have free market, or free enterprise? I don't recall how your system works.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I'm not familiar with a lot of things Aussie.
Do you not have free market, or free enterprise? I don't recall how your system works.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I'm not familiar with a lot of things Aussie.
Do you not have free market, or free enterprise? I don't recall how your system works.

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I read a book about Australia. It had pictures and everything.

It's a pretty boring country. The typical Aussie on a typical day :

Morning: gets raped by a pack of wild dingos.

Afternoon: plays tennis

Evening: tosses a koala on the barbie

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

When I visited, the airport message board had gobs of notes with phone numbers of hot babes who wanted to get banged by visitors. Maybe that helped to keep the gene pool diversified.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

When I visited, the airport message board had gobs of notes with phone numbers of hot babes who wanted to get banged by visitors. Maybe that helped to keep the gene pool diversified.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I'm not familiar with a lot of things Aussie.
Do you not have free market, or free enterprise? I don't recall how your system works.

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Australia is a socialist utopia.

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You really shouldn't bother to check wikipedia or anything regarding the above, because wikipedia is a capitalist conspiracy.

Any other questions?

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Kansas issues its TANF benefits on debit cards instead of checks, and the bill currently on Governor Sam Brownback’s desk would disallow certain types of vendors from accepting payment from TANF debit cards. Traditional purveyors of vice such as tattoo parlors, liquor stores, and strip clubs all make the list (which is already required by federal regulations), but so do some more unexpected vendors. Under the bill, TANF recipients are barred from spending benefits at movie theaters, swimming pools, and even cruise ships. (Yes, cruise ships. In Kansas). In addition, the bill would limit ATM withdrawals on TANF debit cards to $25 a day—which is not only a massive inconvenience, but also significantly increases the bank fees that TANF recipients would have to pay in a month.

We're talking about $497 a month.

As it is, the maximum benefit in Kansas under TANF is fairly meager. According to the Washington Post, Kansans on the program can receive at most $497 a month in the priciest counties in the state. Families who are poor enough to be relying on that extra monthly income to pay the bills aren’t the likeliest candidates to be spending money on tattoos and French manicures, much less booking a spot on Royal Caribbean. The Kansas bill, however, isn’t just about tackling the imaginary problem of nonexistent welfare queens spending public assistance on a steak dinner at a casino -- it’s about punishing people for the crime of being poor.

Imagine being a person on public assistance in Kansas and scrimping even more on an already-tight food budget so you can afford the rare luxury of taking your kid to a movie or a public pool or even a theme park. In effect, the state of Kansas is about to say: As long as you’re poor, we’re going to prevent you and your children from having any fun.

In the conservative mindset that produced this bill, poverty is not the result of circumstance or a lack of striving; instead, it’s the result of shiftlessness, laziness, and a lack of motivation. From this point of view, people choose to be poor because being poor isn’t a hard enough lifestyle. So, if the government makes it even harder to be poor, most poor people will buck up, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and magically find good-paying work and stop being poor. It’s a privileged position that’s insulting to anyone who has ever struggled to make ends meet while looking for work, but it’s the basis behind a surprising amount of conservative legislation.

Kansas isn’t the only state contemplating laws of this kind, but its version is the most extreme. Missouri Republicans are considering a bill that would ban purchasing steak and seafood with welfare benefits. They insist, without any actual data, that people on welfare in the state are buying steak and lobster under the guise of nutrition assistance. And earlier this year, New Hampshire’s legislature was contemplating restrictions similar to the Kansas bill. Why? As one of the legislators pushing the reform said, “I can’t tell you how many times my constituents stand in line and watch someone pull out an EBT card to buy lobster or something like that.”

Is there any evidence beyond random anecdotes to suggest that poor people engage in this type of profligacy with any regularity? Absolutely not. In fact, poor people tend to be much more cost-conscious because they have no choice but to be. Meanwhile, we don’t drug-test wealthy people to make sure they’re not abusing the government benefits they receive, like tax deductions on mortgage interest or IRA contributions. But random anecdotes about poor people buying lobster with government benefits taps into a deeply held conservative belief about the nature of poverty and the character of those who experience it.

The end result of this obsession? Laws that will accomplish little besides inflicting even more misery, inconvenience, and expense on the people who can least afford it and do nothing to help lift people out of poverty.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Anyway nuff nuffs, back from the Crazy Town some of you appear to live inand into reality.

Quote:

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Kansas issues its TANF benefits on debit cards instead of checks, and the bill currently on Governor Sam Brownback’s desk would disallow certain types of vendors from accepting payment from TANF debit cards. Traditional purveyors of vice such as tattoo parlors, liquor stores, and strip clubs all make the list (which is already required by federal regulations), but so do some more unexpected vendors. Under the bill, TANF recipients are barred from spending benefits at movie theaters, swimming pools, and even cruise ships. (Yes, cruise ships. In Kansas). In addition, the bill would limit ATM withdrawals on TANF debit cards to $25 a day—which is not only a massive inconvenience, but also significantly increases the bank fees that TANF recipients would have to pay in a month.

We're talking about $497 a month.

As it is, the maximum benefit in Kansas under TANF is fairly meager. According to the Washington Post, Kansans on the program can receive at most $497 a month in the priciest counties in the state. Families who are poor enough to be relying on that extra monthly income to pay the bills aren’t the likeliest candidates to be spending money on tattoos and French manicures, much less booking a spot on Royal Caribbean. The Kansas bill, however, isn’t just about tackling the imaginary problem of nonexistent welfare queens spending public assistance on a steak dinner at a casino -- it’s about punishing people for the crime of being poor.

Imagine being a person on public assistance in Kansas and scrimping even more on an already-tight food budget so you can afford the rare luxury of taking your kid to a movie or a public pool or even a theme park.

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Quote:

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In effect, the state of Kansas is about to say: As long as you’re poor, we’re going to prevent you and your children from having any fun.

In the conservative mindset that produced this bill, poverty is not the result of circumstance or a lack of striving; instead, it’s the result of shiftlessness, laziness, and a lack of motivation. From this point of view, people choose to be poor because being poor isn’t a hard enough lifestyle. So, if the government makes it even harder to be poor, most poor people will buck up, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and magically find good-paying work and stop being poor. It’s a privileged position that’s insulting to anyone who has ever struggled to make ends meet while looking for work, but it’s the basis behind a surprising amount of conservative legislation.

Kansas isn’t the only state contemplating laws of this kind, but its version is the most extreme. Missouri Republicans are considering a bill that would ban purchasing steak and seafood with welfare benefits. They insist, without any actual data, that people on welfare in the state are buying steak and lobster under the guise of nutrition assistance. And earlier this year, New Hampshire’s legislature was contemplating restrictions similar to the Kansas bill. Why? As one of the legislators pushing the reform said, “I can’t tell you how many times my constituents stand in line and watch someone pull out an EBT card to buy lobster or something like that.”

Is there any evidence beyond random anecdotes to suggest that poor people engage in this type of profligacy with any regularity? Absolutely not. In fact, poor people tend to be much more cost-conscious because they have no choice but to be. Meanwhile, we don’t drug-test wealthy people to make sure they’re not abusing the government benefits they receive, like tax deductions on mortgage interest or IRA contributions. But random anecdotes about poor people buying lobster with government benefits taps into a deeply held conservative belief about the nature of poverty and the character of those who experience it.

The end result of this obsession? Laws that will accomplish little besides inflicting even more misery, inconvenience, and expense on the people who can least afford it and do nothing to help lift people out of poverty.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Much like those on food stamps, who got free access to swimming pools, tattoos and 'Gentlemen's ' Clubs.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Much like those on food stamps, who got free access to swimming pools, tattoos and 'Gentlemen's ' Clubs.

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At least Food Stamp celebrity 'Surfer Dude' bought food with his Govt. handout. "Like steak and lobster tails rules man!"

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Much like those on food stamps, who got free access to swimming pools, tattoos and 'Gentlemen's ' Clubs.

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At least Food Stamp celebrity 'Surfer Dude' bought food with his Govt. handout. "Like steak and lobster tails rules man!"

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So steak and lobster are not considered LUXURY when compared to mac-n-cheese or hot dogs?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Much like those on food stamps, who got free access to swimming pools, tattoos and 'Gentlemen's ' Clubs.

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At least Food Stamp celebrity 'Surfer Dude' bought food with his Govt. handout. "Like steak and lobster tails rules man!"

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So steak and lobster are not considered LUXURY when compared to mac-n-cheese or hot dogs?

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Wha?

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Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

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Only if you're using Afghanistan or Bangladesh as your measuring stick.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

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Only if you're using Afghanistan or Bangladesh as your measuring stick.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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No, I'm talking about such back waters as Western Europe. But thanks for playing.

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Originally posted by OLDGUY:
we've had to tell our kids for several years that we couldn't afford the pool membership...they get a bit confused cause the poor kids down the block all get to go...I have to explain to my kids that I work for a living..that's why we can't go to the pool...confused yet? lol

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Quote:

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Originally posted by OLDGUY:
we've had to tell our kids for several years that we couldn't afford the pool membership...they get a bit confused cause the poor kids down the block all get to go...I have to explain to my kids that I work for a living..that's why we can't go to the pool...confused yet? lol

serioulsy...there's gonna be some messy protesting as austerity measures start to kick in where cities and states simply can't afford to give so much to so many who give so little back to the community.


Think about it...how wrong would it be for a welfare family with kids to get up in the morning, go over to the pool, use the pole vacume, maybe spruce up a bit, trim the grass, etc..just a small small amount of work that would mean reducing the cost of having to pay contractors or staff...the family would learn from doing the work and would have some pride in their pool.

same with free housing...they sit in it all day and do nothing..but they complain when it comes time for the city to upgrade the place..displaces them for a month...while the city installs wifi, new HVAC, etc..how bout the residents get to do an understudy with the contractors...they'd learn ow to cable, how to program routers, how to install drywall, electrical, plumbing..think of the value of all the various components of upgrading an apartment building that would help these people get real jobs that pay decent money...instead..they have time to lay around the public pool and get tatts...? no..gonna be ulgy come the day the EBT cards don't reload.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

"You have just entered the Twilight Zone."

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

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Only if you're using Afghanistan or Bangladesh as your measuring stick.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

If the black population of America was classified as one country, it would be the 13th wealthiest in the world. I suspect Afghanistan and Bangladesh may be below that, along with the other 150 odd countries in the world. I use "black" population because many try to claim that much of the poor population are minorities - and they aren't talking about Asians or Jews.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by OLDGUY:
we've had to tell our kids for several years that we couldn't afford the pool membership...they get a bit confused cause the poor kids down the block all get to go...I have to explain to my kids that I work for a living..that's why we can't go to the pool...confused yet? lol

serioulsy...there's gonna be some messy protesting as austerity measures start to kick in where cities and states simply can't afford to give so much to so many who give so little back to the community.


Think about it...how wrong would it be for a welfare family with kids to get up in the morning, go over to the pool, use the pole vacume, maybe spruce up a bit, trim the grass, etc..just a small small amount of work

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Quote:

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that would mean reducing the cost of having to pay contractors or staff...the family would learn from doing the work and would have some pride in their pool.

same with free housing...they sit in it all day and do nothing..but they complain when it comes time for the city to upgrade the place..displaces them for a month...while the city installs wifi, new HVAC, etc..how bout the residents get to do an understudy with the contractors...they'd learn ow to cable, how to program routers, how to install drywall, electrical, plumbing..think of the value of all the various components of upgrading an apartment building that would help these people get real jobs that pay decent money...instead..they have time to lay around the public pool and get tatts...? no..gonna be ulgy come the day the EBT cards don't reload.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

"You have just entered the Twilight Zone."

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Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

There’s a lot of debate (from certain quarters it’s less debate than whining actually) about the increasing inequality in the United States. Sure, maybe it’s true that the country continues to grow but what about the poor and their incomes?

And there might even be something worth worrying about in all of that too. But just as a short reality check, a few charts that show what it’s really like to be poor in America: as opposed to being actually poor that is...

However, look at it a little more closely in relation to other countries. We’re often told that to be poor in the US is much worse than being poor in the social democracies of Europe. And the bottom 10% in the US are indeed worse off than the bottom 10% in Sweden. But they’re better off than the bottom 10% in Germany or France: places where we are told that there is indeed that social democracy.

Maybe there’s something for this capitalism red in tooth and claw then: given that it does seem to improve the lives of the poor.

Take another look as well: we know that Russia is where bloated plutocrats loot everything from the country: and yet the bottom 10% in the US have, by this measure at least, better lives than the top 10% in Russia. And the top 10% in Portugal (where I live) and Mexico.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers
-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

America lost many patriotic lives (while socialists and other cowards stayed home) fighting a war against the National SOCIALIST Party until defeating Hitler, and then endured another 50 years of Cold War against the United Soviet SOCIALIST Republic until Ronald Reagan finally saved us, and has been infected by the Socialist Party whose platform has been adopted by the America-hating Democrats.
A "socialist utopia" is oxymoronic for patriotic Americans.

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... our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.- RAPPY

Only if you're using Afghanistan or Bangladesh as your measuring stick. -SIGNY

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Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

If the black population of America was classified as one country, it would be the 13th wealthiest in the world. I suspect Afghanistan and Bangladesh may be below that, along with the other 150 odd countries in the world. I use "black" population because many try to claim that much of the poor population are minorities - and they aren't talking about Asians or Jews.

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Oh, sure, if you're including Oprah , Beyonce', Jay-Z, and Will Smith, along with all those who play in the NFL and NBA...

[/sarcasm]

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

America lost many patriotic lives (while socialists and other cowards stayed home) fighting a war against the National SOCIALIST Party until defeating Hitler, and then endured another 50 years of Cold War against the United Soviet SOCIALIST Republic until Ronald Reagan finally saved us, and has been infected by the Socialist Party whose platform has been adopted by the America-hating Democrats.
A "socialist utopia" is oxymoronic for patriotic Americans.

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You're so funny

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Really? This wasn't done already ?

Quote:

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Kansas is close to telling poor families by law that they can't use cash assistance from the state to visit swimming pools, get tattoos or consult with psychics among a list of other things, leading critics to focus on whether tighter rules for social services will make life more unpleasant for the needy.

Republican Gov. Sam Brownback and his allies are emphasizing how they believe a social services bill approved by lawmakers this week helps move people from state assistance into decent jobs.

The bill puts policies imposed by Brownback's administration into state law, so they'll be harder to undo later. A key policy requires able-bodied adults receiving temporary cash assistance to work, be looking for a job, or to enroll in job training.


http://www.kctv5.com/story/28724273/kansas-set-to-prevent-poor-from-us
ing-aid-for-swimming-pools-psychics#ixzz3WgBuaGXQ

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Note, this law doesn't forbid the poor from using swimming pools or getting tattoos, but just not on the public's dime. Sounds pretty damn fair to me.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
The swimming pool ban is a bit rough....

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It's not a ban. They're welcome to enter into public pools, just as anyone else, as long as they pay.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Meh, I don't understand your system in the States. It seems weird and draconian.

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Rob from Peter (the working) to pay Paul (the lazy, the criminal, the crooked) - the Democrat way.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
I doubt they do any of that, anyway. Can't afford it.

Yes, just more hate for the poor.

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If they don't do that, then there is no harm in banning the use of public assistance to pay for what you claim they won't do.
You really are a complete failure in logic, aren't you?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Or use government handouts to subsidise the shitty wages provided by corporations who expect the lowest strata of your country to work as semi slaves.

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Not the proper function of govt, for starters, and our " poor " probably live better than most middle class in other nations.

The poor are free enough to work harder and make more money , if they want. Many simply don't want to.

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