Joss Whedon: Moderate Humanist or Lefty Loon? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Joss Whedon: Moderate Humanist or Lefty Loon?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 08:47
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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:27 AM

Joss' point with the Operative was that evil people are still people, and as such, have the ability to learn and change.

Is that a wussy message?

Can the real terrorists of our real world be brought into a new way of thinking?
Or should we just kill the lot of 'em? And the lot that springs up after that?

Are we doing our best to end the threat of terror by trying to wipe it out violently, or are we ensuring it's perpetuality (is that a word...?) by choosing to ignore less direct methods?

And finally, is Joss' message of hope in Serenity misplaced? Should Mal have just killed the Operative for his transgressions? Would that have been more realistic? Would y'all have liked that better, assuming there was another way out of the situation with the Alliance guns drawn on our BDH's?

Curious Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:43 AM

CITIZEN

Lefty loony. A right thinking fella would have made mal kill the operative with an air strike.

Stupid bloody hippy.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Silly, silly British man.

My new 'phrase' Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:54 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Silly, silly British man.

My new 'phrase' Chrisisall

Another stupid bloody hippy.

Spike: Oh, listen to Mary Poppins. He's got his crust all stiff and upper with that nancy-boy accent. You Englishmen are always so... Bloody hell! Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, oh God! I'm English!

Giles: Welcome to the nancy tribe.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:14 PM

DAYVE

Hi Curious…
First of all, I want to tell you that I subscribe to the Secular Humanist way of thinking in large part. That is to say, that as humans, we must find it in each of us to preserve, and in some small part, enrich the lives of those around us. I know I’m going to come off sounding un-patriotic here, but I have often questioned this country or this government’s commitment to preserve all life. I often wonder what would happen if we could find a common ground with the people who disagree with us. Why must we convince others to think like us when their ideas are in such stark contrast to our own. Live and let live. Can’t that work?

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t defend ourselves against aggressors –but this constant threat of violence will only, IMHO, beget more violence. Sometimes it’s hard to turn the other cheek – but in the long run and in the interest of what is good for all humanity we should find a better way than simply annihilating those we perceive to be our enemies.

Then again, I’m just a Lefty Loon…..

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:18 PM

DREAMTROVE

Chris

I think we all had it out on this issue before and I and others on the right said joss was right-libertarian, and lefties said left lib and we eventually settled on Center-Libertarian, which is probably accurate.

I think his message is that people are people and ideas are ideas, and sometimes ideas are evil, or have evil in them, and so people have to be able to recognize that, and the unquestioning follower of the idea can become an evil person if the idea is evil.

I think he's right. I actually spent a lot of time thinking about that.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:23 PM

CHRISISALL

Very spot-on, DT. I like the way you put that.
Yeah, we did something like this before, but thare be newbies among us!

Same ideas, new venue Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:57 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Silly, silly British man.

My new 'phrase' Chrisisall
Another stupid bloody hippy.

Spike: Oh, listen to Mary Poppins. He's got his crust all stiff and upper with that nancy-boy accent. You Englishmen are always so... Bloody hell! Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, oh God! I'm English!

Giles: Welcome to the nancy tribe.

While I have nothing really to contribute to this conversation (except for the fact that I think Mal shouldn't have killed the Operative; frankly it was more of a punishment to leave him alive), I do have a question. What episode is that quote in, Citizen? My colleagues probably thought I was going into a seizure due to my muffled laughing.

**************************************************

"Oooh, synchronizers!"

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:17 AM

CITIZEN

Tabula Rasa
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0533493/

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:09 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Alright folks, I'm pullin' for:

Loonified Humanist, Moderately Lefty.

Should make a documentary on him using this title. A Browncoat Have Gun, Will Travel.

Like to add a Hippie statement, but the grand old Citizen seems to have a corner on that market.

That and I hate fightin' with Hippies, (Leaves a funny taste in your mouth when it comes down to bitin' and clawin'.)

Nothin' against Hippies, i just love and hate everyone equally.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:22 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
Stupid bloody hippy.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN!!!!! Geez! I'm going to launch a formal protest against all these anti-hippie posts!

As for the topic in general, it is interesting that The Operative wasn't killed by Mal considering he shot several other people responsible for causing people harm - that guy on Haven for example. The Operative is no less guilty, since he gave the order. Of course, Mal does tell him that he will kill him if he ever sees him again. It seems that since The Operative ordered the troops to stand down, they both accepted that there was something of a truce between them. Until Mal left anyway. And it was a pretty shaky truce at that, since Mal seemed to really, really want to reach for his weapon during that last conversation.

Speaking as someone from a country with a history of terrorism, the unfortunate truth is that sometimes, if you want to ensure a lasting peace, you have to let some people away with murder. Because if you want a lasting peace at some point you are going to have to negotiate with the people who murdered your family and friends. That's why wars last so long.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:34 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Because if you want a lasting peace at some point
Speaking as someone from a country with a history of terrorism, the unfortunate truth is that sometimes, if you want to ensure a lasting peace, you have to let some people away with murder.

Swallow pride and hatred to ensure no further loss of life?
I guess that's what Jesus would do...

The path to peace Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:39 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Because if you want a lasting peace at some point
Speaking as someone from a country with a history of terrorism, the unfortunate truth is that sometimes, if you want to ensure a lasting peace, you have to let some people away with murder.

Swallow pride and hatred to ensure no further loss of life?
I guess that's what Jesus would do...

The path to peace Chrisisall

...but since the rest of us aren't manifestations of the Deity (even if there are people around who think they're God) it's a bit of a tall order. I know there was a lot of bitterness in this part of the world when people guilty of planting bombs and shooting civilians were released from jail as part of the peace process in Northern Ireland.

The problem is, the only other way to ensure a lasting peace is to wipe your enemy off the face of the earth and, aside from the moral issues, killing people has a nasty habit of creating more enemies.

Another reason why wars last so long.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:40 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I think we all had it out on this issue before and I and others on the right said joss was right-libertarian, and lefties said left lib and we eventually settled on Center-Libertarian, which is probably accurate.

Joss has said in at least one interview that he himself is a liberal and a Democrat. In the same interview, Joss also said that Mal is his opposite: a Libertarian. It is easy to confuse an author's political views with that of his protagonist. In Joss' case, they are very different.

I am surprised Mal didn't kill the Operative. What, after kicking Crow into the engine? Didn't seem consistent to me. But then, maybe that was Mal's revenge now that he "believes"--if you think about it, it is less merciful to leave the Operative depressed and soulless than to kill him standing on his feet. Either way, I didn't see letting the Operative go as an act of kindness.

Personally, I believe it isn't for us to judge and sentence who is evil and who should die. However, I have heard of such evil that if that evil were standing in front of me, even if unarmed and defenseless, I would take it upon myself to judge and sentence. I believe it would be wrong for me to do it, but I'd do it anyway.

Here is an example of the evil I mean. Don't ask me how, but I once came across a disgusting website giving detailed instructions on how to kidnap children, torture them, and eat them alive (including recipes). Now see, if I came across someone doing that sort of thing, I'd kill 'em. Even if they were unarmed in their sleep. I think it'd be wrong, but I'd do it. I don't care if there is some good in them or if they help old ladies cross the street or if they can change. That's just me.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Were someone that twisted, I feel killin' them would actually be a kindness, to that individual, and the world.
But don't quote me on that; I'll deny it.

I said modified Buddhist Chrisisall

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