George Smoot's Nobel Prize for Physics by cartoon

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George Smoot's Nobel Prize for Physics

POSTED BY: CARTOON
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:32
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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:37 AM

It's been many months since a post in here on evolution vs creationism, but I recall having cited many quotations from Fred Heeren's "Show Me God", where he scientifically explains how evolution could never have happened.

Naturally, those in here who believe in evolution quickly debunked Mr. Heeren's book, and cited a few liberal blogs which ridiculed the work.

In light of recent events, however, I feel that I need to point out that the person who wrote the foreward to Mr. Heeren's book (endorsing its contents) was none other than the 2006 winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics: George Smoot.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:00 AM

KANEMAN

Whoot! chalk one up for creationism.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:57 PM

CITIZEN

Well it really shows the intellectual capacity of people when they think that someone saying "Evolution doesn't work" means "Creationism Does".

Species adaption through survival of the fittest is a form of evolution, and has been soundly proven. Dogs used to be Wolves you know.

Micro-Evolution is a fact. The sticking point is Macro-Evolution, and whether it takes place and/or the mechanisms behind it.

Macro-Evolution being impossible? What they disproved one mechanism? That's not proof that Macro-Evolution hasn't occured, nor is it proof of creationism.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
It's been many months since a post in here on evolution vs creationism, but I recall having cited many quotations from Fred Heeren's "Show Me God", where he scientifically explains how evolution could never have happened.

I looked through the archived evolution threads and couldn't find a single quote. Could you have been posting under another name?

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:53 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I looked through the archived evolution threads and couldn't find a single quote. Could you have been posting under another name?

Hi, Rue. No, this is the only name with which I've posted in here. I think it would've been back in winter (possibly sometime between January and March?)...

I'm not sure who started the thread, either. But, I do recall mentioning Heeren's book. (I may not have gone into specific detail, but I know I referred to it.) At least I'm fairly certain I did, because I specifically remember at least one person posting a reply with a link to a blog which bashed the book. Although, I know there is no shortage of sites which have bashed it. I've found several, myself.

Anyhow, my point in mentioning Smoot was to underscore that while those who believe in evolution can claim that evangelicals (like myself) are "crazy, ignorant critters", they can hardly say that about the person who just was a co-winner of this year's Nobel Prize for Physics.

I have not read anything where Smoot has declared his faith (or lack, thereof), so I don't know if he is a believer or not. That aside, he wrote a very nice foreward for the aforementioned book, which he obviously endorses (people generally don't write forewards for books which they believe to be chock full o'rubbish).

And, it's not like Smoot went to Bob Jones University. He went to Berkeley -- which, to my understanding, has never exactly been a breeding place for "creationists".

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:15 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
And, it's not like Smoot went to Bob Jones University. He went to Berkeley -- which, to my understanding, has never exactly been a breeding place for "creationists".

Of course it should also be mentioned that Smoot won his prize for work confirming the big bang theory of cosmology which places the age of the universe at about 14 billion years. You know give or take a few billion.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:45 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

The reason why I asked is I tried to find quotes from the book on-line. Failing that, I tried to find the quotes you said you posted. But I couldn't find mention of the book at all.

Perhaps you could provide a few quotes here.

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 7:46 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
The reason why I asked is I tried to find quotes from the book on-line. Failing that, I tried to find the quotes you said you posted. But I couldn't find mention of the book at all.

Perhaps you could provide a few quotes here.

Sure. When I have more time, I'll peruse the book, and find some of the bits I've found particularly interesting. [Of course, in a scientific work, which goes from point one to point two, to point three, etc., it is difficult to take a line here and there out of the context of the whole, without seeing the points which lead up to it.]

Is there anything in particular you'd like addressed?

P.S. Heeren's book doesn't attempt to disprove the Big Bang. I'm not a scientist, so I don't think I'm fit to properly summarize the work as a whole. I would recommend it, though (it's reasonably affordable online) -- for anyone interested in this subject, particularly from an pro-evolutionary point-of-view, as you may not have otherwise seen his arguments presented as he does.

Obviously, Smoot wrote the foreward when the book was first published (around 1995, then revised 2000). So, Smoot's foreward is nothing new. What is new is that Smoot has subsequently been awarded a Nobel Prize for Physics, so his "foreward" (and recommendation of the book) won't as likely be dismissed outright as it might have previously been.

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:32 AM

CARTOON

I checked the old threads, myself (something which is very time-consuming with dial-up), and found two evolution threads in which I posted (one from February 1st and one from March 17th).

Unfortunately, I don't seem to mention Heeren's book in either of them. (Most distressing)

I know I quoted from it somewhere, because I distinctly recall someone posting a response which included a link to a blog which bashed the book. Perhaps it was in another forum.

At any rate, for the time being, I'll type out Smoot's foreward below. Again, I recommend the book (which I think can be found for somewhere between $10 and $15). It's a very detailed work (just short of 400 pages), and Heeren interviews many scientists (most of whom are believers in evolution).

To quote from a portion of Heeren's "Acknowledgments" page at the beginning of the book...

I owe a great debt of thanks to the following scientists who granted me interviews for this book -- all distinguished contributors to the scientific enterprise and many of them discoverers of this century's key findings in cosmology: MORRIS AIZENMAN (Executive Officer for the Division of Astronomical Science at the National Science Foundation), ROBERT GANGE (the only Christian apologist I interviewed, president of the Genesis Foundation and a working scientist in thermo-physics), ALAN GUTH (father of inflationary theory in big bang cosmology), STEPHEN HAWKING (widely regarded as the most brilliant theoretical physicist since Einstein, known especially for his work on singularities -- both black holes and the big bang -- and for his proposal of a no-boundary condition for spacetime), ROBERT JASTROW (founder of NASA's Goddard Institute, now director of the Mount Wilson Institute and its observatory), JOHN MATHER (NASA's COBE satellite chief scientist), JEREMIAH OSTRIKER (Princeton's co-discoverer of dark matter), ARNO PENZIAS (1978 winner of the Nobel prize for Physics, co-discoverer of the cosmic background radiation), GEORGE SMOOTH (leader of the COBE satellite team that first detected the cosmic "seeds" of our universe), CHARLES STEIDEL (head of the team that discovered primeval galaxies), JAMES TRURAN (Univ. of Chicago's expert on internal nuclear reactions in the stars and early galaxy formation), and ROBERT WILSON (co-winner of the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for his co-discovery of the cosmic background radiation).

BTW, "Show Me God" was intended to the be the first of a multi-volumed work. "Show Me God" (the first volume) deals with the origins of the universe and its "fine tuning". Volume 2 was to deal with the origins of life.

Okay, here's Smoot's foreward...

Until the late 1910's, humans were as ignorant of cosmic origins as they had ever been. Those who didn't take Genesis literally had no reason to believe there had been a beginning. This century has seen an explosion in our exploration of the Universe as new instruments and techniques have become available. Now the search for our origin is a very active and advanced field.

This cutting-edge book explores creation where science and religion ask the same questions and think the same thoughts. This is the place where all seek and see the hand of God. Everyone, layman and scientist alike, expects to find enlightenment about the big questions in the beginning of the Universe.

Fred Heeren has written an engaging and stimulating book that probes the frontier of science and faith, showing how they reconcile. In this well-written book Fred has worked to show that faith and science are compatible and supportive. Bible believers should have confidence that observations of the world will be consistent with the word of God. In fact "Show Me God" argues that learning more will only increase one's sense of wonder and give more confidence in one's faith.

This ground-breaking book shows that people of faith and scientists can have a healthy and -- for both -- uplifting dialog, a thing I have felt crucial for humanity. It is important for the future of society and religion to remove the barriers of misunderstanding and mistrust between faith and science. Science and religion are not to be seen as separate and even antagonistic areas. That view denies us part of our humanity just as emphasizing one part of ourselves, e.g. career, and cutting out socializing, e.g. family, friends, and community, makes us less a person. "Show Me God" is a major step bringing scientific and religious knowledge to people in a form that shows the great completeness.

George F. Smoot, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, California

For anyone interested in this subject, and who respects Smoot's credentials, his foreward alone should be reason to read Heeren's book.

EDIT: Here's a bio on Smoot, for a more detailed list of his credentials: http://aether.lbl.gov/www/personnel/Smoot-bio.html

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