Prejudice - Outdated Survival Mechanism? by Geezer

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Prejudice - Outdated Survival Mechanism?

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 09:10
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VIEWED: 2125
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Friday, March 2, 2007 5:09 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Reading the comments about racism at the end of the "Reagan the Hero" thread, I got to thinking about prejudice in general, and where it came from. Why would anyone exhibit a seemingly unreasonable fear and hatred of someone who was just like them except for, often, a single attribute - in physical appearance, costume, or sometimes just philosophy?

I would guess that it started back in the early tribal days when the guys who rubbed blue ocher in their navels, instead of in their hair like your tribe did, would hurt you if they got a chance; steal your food and women, and stick a stick in you if they could. You needed some quick indicator to allow a timely response, i.e. sticking him first.

This must have worked pretty well in that setting, because it got widely adopted. No doubt at some point a chief or shaman saw how this response could be used to consolidate or increase his power, e.g. "Those sneaky blue-navel guys want your food and women. Let's take their's first. They'd do it to us". And hence through "...those sneaky Macedonians/Greeks/Gauls/Christians/Jews/Infidels/Godless Savages/Huguenots/Catholics/Jews(again)/Nazis/Capitalists/Communists", etc.

So the questions are:
(1) Was prejudice ever a needed survival mechanism?
(2) Have we reached the point where it is completely outdated?
(2.1) If so, how do we get rid of the remnants?
(2.2) If not, are there situations where prejudice, as defined in the first paragraph, is still a valid response?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, March 2, 2007 7:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Peeps that post stuff like this scare me, and should be shunned or stoned.

Yeah, it was a survival instinct; sometimes a quick judgement meant the difference between life and death eons ago (even now, in some cases).

Somewhat related story:
I was walking from a bus stop in DC to a friend's house a few years back. I walked through an area that was all black, but took no real notice of it since I have so many black friends (I is white), and a young man came up to me and asked me if I believed I was in the right area. I told him where I was going, and he said he should walk with me just to be safe. He parted ways with me as I neared my destination, and I thanked him. When I saw my friend (who is black), he said "Damn, I didn't mean for you to WALK to my house, I thought you'd call when the bus got here, and I'd pick you up! DC stands for Dodge City, man! You could have been shot! Next time let me get you!"

Oops. I forgot my prejudice there for a moment!

In need of a tan Chrisisall

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Friday, March 2, 2007 8:52 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Peeps that post stuff like this scare me, and should be shunned or stoned.

Yeah, it was a survival instinct; sometimes a quick judgement meant the difference between life and death eons ago (even now, in some cases).

Do you actually read what you post? I have no idea what point you are trying to get across from these two conflicting statements.

Posting to stir stuff up.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 9:12 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Do you actually read what you post?

No, I just type indiscriminately.

That first part was a joke, how could you take it seriously? I'd have to be some kind of nut to mean that literally...and I'm obviously not...well, I don't THINK I'm a nut...
...do you percieve me as some kind of nut?
Am I crazy, and just don't know it?

Excuse me, my invisible friend needs the computer.

Not insane Chrisisall

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Friday, March 2, 2007 9:33 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

So the questions are:
(1) Was prejudice ever a needed survival mechanism?
(2) Have we reached the point where it is completely outdated?
(2.1) If so, how do we get rid of the remnants?
(2.2) If not, are there situations where prejudice, as defined in the first paragraph, is still a valid response?

(1) Only if prejudice is defined as the fear of all that is foreign. Even animals, strange places, strange foods.

Being scared of the unknown is a natural and useful defense mechanism, and I think what we know as racial prejudice as just another form of that.

Prejudice doesn't have to be racist, it happens across all kinds of barriers. People of pretty much the same ethnicity can harbor lots of prejudice against each other because they have a different nationality and speak different languages. It's the unknown culture that tends to freak people out.

Race and skin color just have the "downside" of being so very visible, and as visually focused creatures, this difference can be a self-renewing barrier.

(2) Fear is a part of us, and it protects us. The downsides are part of the package. What is outdated is the inherent laziness of people to second guess both gut reactions and taught prejudice, since we all have the luxury to do so now.

(2.1) Uh. By second-guessing our prejudices? If you're asking for broad solutions, I'm sure other people are much smarter and will have answers I don't have.

(2.2) As defined by person X looking slightly different being grounds for attacking person X is preventative self-defense? No.

However, I consider prejudice against all things male and threat-sized to be very useful when female and alone in the streets at night. Statistically, the chances of being attacked in the town where I live are very very minor, but that doesn't mean I won't cross the streets in order to avoid hurt feelings in some random tall stranger.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 9:53 AM

SHINYED

The ability to " discriminate " is a human characteristic that makes us special.
We all discriminate all the time in our everyday life decisions :
a) What clothes we wear
b) Where & how we live
c) Who we date or marry
d) What we eat
e) What we do for pleasure
f) What car we drive
etc etc etc....

So what is the big magilla if we discriminate against people, or groups of people we don't like? As long as we don't hurt or damage other people in the process, I feel we can like or dis-like whoever we want.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 10:24 AM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
...do you percieve me as some kind of nut?

I perceive you as a cashew personally.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 10:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:

I perceive you as a cashew personally.

My favourite!

Planter's Chrisisall

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Friday, March 2, 2007 12:34 PM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Somewhat related story:
I was walking from a bus stop in DC to a friend's house a few years back. I walked through an area that was all black, but took no real notice of it since I have so many black friends (I is white), and a young man came up to me and asked me if I believed I was in the right area. I told him where I was going, and he said he should walk with me just to be safe. He parted ways with me as I neared my destination, and I thanked him.

The two sides of human nature - those who would kill on the basis of an irrational hatred and those who would protect others, even strangers, despite the risk to themselves.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 4:08 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
...do you percieve me as some kind of nut?

I perceive you as a cashew personally.

Really? I would have gone for walnut myself.

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Friday, March 2, 2007 5:07 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

This reminds me of a Deep Space Nine episode I watched recently, named Chimera.

Quark, Describing prejudice against anything alien:

"We humanoids are the product of millions of years of evolution. Our ancestors learned the hard way that what you don't know might kill you. They wouldn't have survived if they hadn't jumped back when they encountered a snake coiled in the muck. And now, millions of years later, that instinct is still there."

I liked the fact that this episode didn't condone prejudice, but it accepted its existence. It also showed that most people are prejudiced to some degree. The polite ones hide it and try to modify their behavior. Impolite ones flaunt it. A very, very few overcome it.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:27 AM

MALBADINLATIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So the questions are:
(1) Was prejudice ever a needed survival mechanism?
(2) Have we reached the point where it is completely outdated?
(2.1) If so, how do we get rid of the remnants?
(2.2) If not, are there situations where prejudice, as defined in the first paragraph, is still a valid response?

1. Prejudice was never needed, fear of the unknown was. If a rival tribe attacked your tribe, and you feared them next time they tried it, thats just cautious and smart. Prejudice takes a bigger brain.

2. Prejudice is socially unacceptable where I live. (The West Coast of the USA). If you display it you will ruin any prospects of employment, loose freinds, and will be beaten up eventually.

2.1 Keep your pie hole shut...and electro shock.

2.2 Does prejudice = racism? They are different, with exceptions of course. I think I would have to know which to answer intelligently.

"You can believe your eyes...or you can believe me." -Groucho Marx

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Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:28 AM

MALBADINLATIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So the questions are:
(1) Was prejudice ever a needed survival mechanism?
(2) Have we reached the point where it is completely outdated?
(2.1) If so, how do we get rid of the remnants?
(2.2) If not, are there situations where prejudice, as defined in the first paragraph, is still a valid response?

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Monday, March 5, 2007 11:54 AM

STARRBABY

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
[B
That first part was a joke, how could you take it seriously?

Sarcasam doesn't convey well in the typed word. If I hadn't lurked long enough to know that your humor is usually tounge-in-cheek I would have been very confused by your post.

Now, to state my opinion on this (Which i actually rarely do . . .I'm more of a reader to learn what others think) I think that perjudice is actually a very natural part of being human. However, as humans we need to try and smother that part of our 'id' and think logicly.

I do also agree that we cna dislike anyone we choose. We can hate someone because they are fat, ugly, black, white, green, smart, pretty, or rich. It is our rights as US citizens. However (I use that word alot), we DON'T have the right to treat them badly.
AND if we succum to this right we could really miss out on getting to know some great people if we excercise the right to hate anyone we want.

Back to lurking! Talk amongst yourselves!

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Monday, March 5, 2007 12:05 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:

Sarcasam doesn't convey well in the typed word.

I'm never sarcastic.
I'm irritatingly ironic.

An irritant Chrisisall

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Monday, March 5, 2007 12:10 PM

STARRBABY

Oh! Thanks for clearing that up.

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Monday, March 5, 2007 9:53 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Geezer,

I've been hanging around waiting for some kind of consensus to gel around your post. In the absence of that...

The kind of slavery that the Dutch and English introduced to the world was fundamentally different than the slavery that had been present throughout human history (example: slavery in the Roman empire). And it required a fundamental rethinking of race. In my mind, the prejudice resulting from this rethinking of race, as a construct, is unique and not supported as prehistoric learned behavior. In other words, the idea that black skin equates to sub-human and less than white skin is an idea that crops up only recently in human history (and within recorded human history, at that). (* eta: hmmm, after a night's sleep I'm not too happy with this paragraph. oh well *)

How do we use prejudice to make decisions? If the primary driver behind your decision-making process is prejudice than I would suggest you are short-changing your mental capacity.

The examples that have been raised in this thread (life-threatening situations) are different from the examples we see day-to-day. Typically, as Frem pointed out in the Reagan thread, racism manifests itself in economic decisions. Opportunity is gated based on who is or is not "those people."

To argue that prejudice is a survival mechanism, when we primarily see prejudice at work in economic decisions, is to be watching the practice courts when the match is on center court.

Sidenote: I have no problem with prejudice as part of the decision making process, as long as there is acknowledgement that this portion of information is potentially tainted. In other words, if the sole reason you lock your doors while driving through the low rent district is because you saw a person of less-than-white hue in the crosswalk than that would be weenie. If you locked your doors before you even entered an area of high crime than I would consider that judicious. Capiche?

Or, to use an example already used, if you are a woman walking alone and you cross the street late at night to avoid a man then I would also expect you to exercise caution on dates and in the presence of a partner/husband (since a woman is more likely to be raped or killed by someone she knows/partner/husband than by someone she doesn't know). Are you playing the percentages? If so, then I have no problem. If not, then that sucks.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:35 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Why would anyone exhibit a seemingly unreasonable fear and hatred of someone who was just like them except for, often, a single attribute - in physical appearance, costume, or sometimes just philosophy?"

Because they are taught to hate. If you get a bunch of young children together they develop their likes and dislikes but it doesn't have anything to do with prejudice. Prejudice is NOT in 'inbuilt' response.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:58 AM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Why would anyone exhibit a seemingly unreasonable fear and hatred of someone who was just like them except for, often, a single attribute - in physical appearance, costume, or sometimes just philosophy?"

Because they are taught to hate. If you get a bunch of young children together they develop their likes and dislikes but it doesn't have anything to do with prejudice. Prejudice is NOT in 'inbuilt' response.

Rue, thanks for distilling down to its essence the main problem with Geezer's framing. It's learned behavior. And it's that simple.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 8:18 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I was thinking about it further: how is the capacity for prejudice developed? And it occured to me that it's developed by using language to link what is an inborn capacity - fear - to something artificial - the way a person dresses. And that is the beauty and problem with language. It can create an artificial reality by simply linking words together, which in real life represent things that never occur together. And then people react to that AS IF it was real.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 8:52 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Because they are taught to hate. If you get a bunch of young children together they develop their likes and dislikes but it doesn't have anything to do with prejudice.

Well, Yeah. But why are they taught to hate? It had to start somewhere. Some guy long ago didn't just wake up one morning and decide "Just for something to do, I'm going to hate and fear [some other group] and teach my children to hate and fear them too." There must have been some reason, rational or not, for the hate and fear to begin.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 9:10 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

It's never about the babuszka or turban. It's about distribution of resources. Usually created by those who have a disproportionate share of said resources and want to keep them.

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