AuRaptor does deep knee-bends over a road cone in preparation for his date with Rush! by jewelstaitefan

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"Be the change you seek."

In other words, have at it. List away.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:27 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Here's a link to the text of the legislation.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:8:./temp/~c111jdzRX0::

All thousand-plus pages.

Now all you need is the secred decoder ring which allows you to translate Governmentese into English.

Edit to add:

Interesting. I tried to open the Congressional Research Service summary on this bill, which is supposed to explain it in plain language, and got:

"Temporary file open error. Display failed."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Haven't been by here lately, maybe I missed it.
Was hoping to find a thread listing all the pork in the so-called stimulus package passed by the Dems.

The pork:
#1- the secret kickbacks to Dem dogs.
#2- The secret palm-greasing among Repo rats.

But I don't think Obama has any control over that, it's sort of tradition.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:50 AM

DREAMTROVE

I posted a thread on this, got a few responses, but not the specifics I was looking for. I don't have time at the moment. The thing was pretty awful. I hear 4-5 trillion in spending, 1 trillion for FICA, as usual, 2 trillion some in budget, and both last year's and this years stimulus packages, both of which are being spent now, I think the total is close to 5 trillion, after the tax relief, I think that's about 5-10 times the revenue coming in. It's pretty massive dollar devaluation. There's almost no price control in the entire thing, so it's just "helping people afford" the high costs of housing and healthcare, etc., in other words, corporate welfare, sold as "helping the poor" because the audience is the left. Most of the tax relief goes to business.

Pork, there is some, but people who chase pork are missing the big picture. This housing thing, it's handing trillions to the banks, and borrowing it from the banks to give to the banks and then taxing americans to pay interest on that loan.

I gotta go with PN on this one, Zimbabwe here we come.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I gotta go with PN on this one, Zimbabwe here we come.

So, you're saying it WILL be like on Dark Angel?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:09 AM

Problem is, one man's pork is another man's bacon.

Bobby Jindal decried $140 million in volcano monitoring, which is all fine and good. Being in Lousy-anna, he probably doesn't have a whole bunch of need for volcano monitoring, so it sounds like pork to him. However, if you live in the SeaTac (Seattle/Tacoma) area, it seems like a pretty damned good idea.

I'll bet Jindal is a whole lot more accomodating on things like hurricane monitoring and levee construction - things which, to me up here in Central Texas, sound like nothing but pork!

So "pork" has come to mean anything that isn't of immediate use to YOU and YOUR constituents in YOUR district or state, not necessarily things that are utterly useless and frivolous.

The biggest chunk of money in ANY federal budget is defense spending, so I have to ask all the "rein in the spending" crowd here: Which defense projects are you willing to cut out and forego? Since the military and defense budget is roughly 52% of the federal budget, that's the quickest way to cut a HUGE chunk out of any federal spending bill. So which projects go? F-22 Raptor? It's an air-superiority fighter without a mission or any opponent; can we lose that one?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So which projects go? F-22 Raptor? It's an air-superiority fighter without a mission or any opponent; can we lose that one?

No, that's necessary. But we CAN lose all that educational stuff; America has been doing just fine, don't let no one tell ya different!

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:26 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Problem is, one man's pork is another man's bacon.

Bobby Jindal decried $140 million in volcano monitoring, which is all fine and good. Being in Lousy-anna, he probably doesn't have a whole bunch of need for volcano monitoring, so it sounds like pork to him. However, if you live in the SeaTac (Seattle/Tacoma) area, it seems like a pretty damned good idea.

NO, it's still a terrible idea, if you're saying it's a STIMULUS bill. This sort of spending belongs in the budget ( and likely is there also )

Quote:

I'll bet Jindal is a whole lot more accomodating on things like hurricane monitoring and levee construction - things which, to me up here in Central Texas, sound like nothing but pork!

You'll bet = I have no idea, but I'll just say so , to make my case anyways.

And if there IS such spending ? It is pork, and belongs in the main budget, or not, as the needs should determine.

Quote:

The biggest chunk of money in ANY federal budget is defense spending,
Wrong!

Quote:
...so I have to ask all the "rein in the spending" crowd here: Which defense projects are you willing to cut out and forego? Since the military and defense budget is roughly 52% of the federal budget, that's the quickest way to cut a HUGE chunk out of any federal spending bill. So which projects go? F-22 Raptor? It's an air-superiority fighter without a mission or any opponent; can we lose that one?

Military / defense spending is roughly 16%, not 52% , of the U.S. Budget. Social Security is 1st on the list of expenditures, and Medicare is 3rd, with Defense spending 2nd.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:28 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Here's a link to the text of the legislation.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:8:./temp/~c111jdzRX0::

All thousand-plus pages.

Now all you need is the secred decoder ring which allows you to translate Governmentese into English.

Edit to add:

Interesting. I tried to open the Congressional Research Service summary on this bill, which is supposed to explain it in plain language, and got:

"Temporary file open error. Display failed."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Thank you so much for posting this. I wouldn't have bothered looking for it (because I don't think I would find any "Ah-hah!" moments in it's 1000 pages), but since you did dig it up and post a link... it's worth a look-see.

Looks to be here now:

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/approp/app09.html#h1

It's awe inspiring - dig a little. Try a random link on that page, like Energy & Water H7324

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.07324:

Title: Making appropriations for energy and water development and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2009, and for other purposes.

I like "and for other purposes" just a tad vague, but whatever, lots to get to. Try in the middle, the generic sounding Text of Legislation.

You get the different subsets, here's a list - each one has a link for more details:

TITLE I--CORPS OF ENGINEERS--CIVIL
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
Corps of Engineers--Civil
investigations
construction
mississippi river and tributaries
operation and maintenance
regulatory program
formerly utilized sites remedial action program
flood control and coastal emergencies
expenses
office of assistant secretary of the army (civil works)
GENERAL PROVISIONS, CORPS OF ENGINEERS--CIVIL
TITLE II--DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Central Utah Project
central utah project completion account
Bureau of Reclamation
Serenity II Funding Initiative
water and related resources
(including rescission and transfers of funds)
central valley project restoration fund
california bay-delta restoration
policy and administration
administrative provision
GENERAL PROVISIONS, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
TITLE III--DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
ENERGY PROGRAMS
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability
Nuclear Energy
Fossil Energy Research and Development
Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves
Strategic Petroleum Reserve
Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve
Energy Information Administration
Non-Defense Environmental Cleanup
Uranium Enrichment Decontamination and Decommissioning Fund
Science
Nuclear Waste Disposal
Title 17 Innovative Technology Loan Guarantee Loan Program
Departmental Administration
Office of the Inspector General
ATOMIC ENERGY DEFENSE ACTIVITIES
National Nuclear Security Administration
Weapons Activities
(including rescission of funds)
Defense Nuclear Nonproliferation
Naval Reactors
Office of the Administrator
ENVIRONMENTAL AND OTHER DEFENSE ACTIVITIES
Defense Environmental Cleanup
(including transfer of funds)
Other Defense Activities
Defense Nuclear Waste Disposal
POWER MARKETING ADMINISTRATIONS
Bonneville Power Administration Fund
Operation and Maintenance, Southeastern Power Administration
Operation and Maintenance, Southwestern Power Administration
Construction, Rehabilitation, Operation and Maintenance, Western Area Power Administration
Falcon and Amistad Operating and Maintenance Fund
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
GENERAL PROVISIONS, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
TITLE IV--INDEPENDENT AGENCIES
Appalachian Regional Commission
Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board
Delta Regional Authority
Denali Commission
Nuclear Regulatory Commission
office of inspector general
Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board
salaries and expenses
Office of The Federal Coordinator for Alaska Natural Gas Transportation Projects
TITLE V--GENERAL PROVISIONS
December 10, 2008

****** Looking at one of those:

Fossil Energy Research and Development

(including transfer of funds)

For necessary expenses in carrying out fossil energy research and development activities, under the authority of the Department of Energy Organization Act (Public Law 95-91), including the acquisition of interest, including defeasible and equitable interests, in any real property or any facility or for plant or facility acquisition or expansion, and for conducting inquiries, technological investigations, and research concerning the extraction, processing, use, and disposal of mineral substances without objectionable social and environmental costs in accordance with the principles set forth in section 2 of the Act of May 16, 1910 (30 U.S.C. 3), $853,978,000, to remain available until expended, of which $149,000,000 shall be derived by transfer from `Clean Coal Technology': Provided, That of the amounts provided, $241,000,000 is available for the carbon capture demonstration solicitation, pursuant to title VII of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007: Provided further, That funds appropriated for prior solicitations under the Clean Coal Technology Program, the Power Plant Improvement Initiative, the Clean Coal Power Initiative, and FutureGen, but not required by the Department to meet its obligations on projects selected under such solicitations, may be utilized for the carbon capture demonstration solicitation under this Act in accordance with the requirements of this Act rather than the Acts under which the funds were appropriated: Provided further, That no carbon capture demonstration project may be selected for which full funding is not available to provide for the total project: Provided further, That if a carbon capture demonstration application, selected after the date of enactment of this Act for negotiation under this or any other Act in any fiscal year, is not awarded within two years from the date the application was selected, negotiations shall cease and the Federal funds committed to the application shall be retained by the Department for future coal related research, development, and demonstration projects, except that the time limit may be extended at the Secretary's discretion for matters outside the control of the applicant, or if the Secretary determines that extension of the time limit is in the public interest: Provided further, That the Secretary may not delegate this responsibility for carbon capture demonstration applications greater than $10,000,000: Provided further, That if Firefly is not returned to network television by the year 2010 Fox networks must pay a fine of $165,345,800 financial assistance for costs in excess of those estimated as of the date of award of original carbon capture demonstration financial assistance may not be provided in excess of the proportion of costs borne by the Government in the original agreement and shall be limited to 25 percent of the original financial assistance: Provided further, That funds shall be expended in accordance with the provisions governing the use of funds contained under the heading `Clean Coal Technology' in section 5903d of title 42, United States Code, as well as those contained under the heading `Clean Coal Technology' in prior appropriations Acts: Provided further, That any technology selected under the carbon capture demonstration solicitation shall be considered a Clean Coal Technology, and any carbon capture demonstration project selected under this program shall be considered a Clean Coal Technology Project, for the purposes of section 7651n of title 42, United States Code, and chapters 51, 52, and 60 of title 40 of the Code of Federal Regulations: Provided further, That, notwithstanding any other provision of law, at least 50 percent non-Federal cost-sharing shall be required in each budget period of a carbon capture demonstration project: Provided further, That no part of the sum herein made available shall be used for the field testing of nuclear explosives in the recovery of oil and gas: Provided further, That in this Act and future Acts, program direction funds available to the National Energy Technology Laboratory shall only be used to support Department of Energy activities included in this Fossil Energy account: Provided further, That of the amount appropriated in this paragraph $14,080,000 shall be used for the projects specified in the table that appears under the heading `Congressionally Directed Fossil Energy Research and Development Projects' in the report of the Committee on Appropriations of the House of Representatives to accompany this Act.

Bored yet? Mind numb yet? Can you imagine if that is one 1/4th of one page anyone reading all 1000+ pages of it? "I never suggested Obama read all of the pages..." It would take too long to understand it all (perhaps by design) and whatever direction you want to take to solve the current problems, "delay" has to be like kryptonite for any of them. Can't wait.

Pork? Not every state needs the same thing, so pointing out a state's specific, unique needs and saying "Pork!" is misleading (and tiresome) and exactly the kind of unthink that have the Reps scrambling to rebuild their party.

Not all appropriations are the same - there's the arrow factory from the last administration that got $100,000 (I believe), I'm sure there's something equally silly buried in here somewhere... I honestly look forward to what people will find.

fwiw Geezer - I also had problems with pages "missing" etc - it's possible this is such a popular item that the server is not able to respond accurately to every request.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Mind numb yet? Can you imagine anyone reading all of it? That is the nature of the beast, whatever your party is.

The beast is represented by the best lawyers. He'll get off.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:30 AM

DREAMTROVE

Yes chris, only with more jessica alba nudity scenes, as hotties won't be able to afford clothing :)

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:46 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yes chris, only with more jessica alba nudity scenes, as hotties won't be able to afford clothing :)

With Global Warming, they'll be wearing less and less anyways!

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

With Global Warming, they'll be wearing less and less anyways!

Global warming puts more moisture into the atmo, setting the stage for a new ice age.
Your statement cannot be considered logical.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:24 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

As to be expected, no one even noticed the firefly pork...

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:30 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
As to be expected, no one even noticed the firefly pork...

Serenity II Funding Initiative

Funny, but I'd rather we rise again w/ OUT the aid of the Alliance Spending. Joss would never accept the 30 pieces of silver from even the likes of Obama.

I hope.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:34 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
As to be expected, no one even noticed the firefly pork...

Serenity II Funding Initiative

Funny, but I'd rather we rise again w/ OUT the aid of the Alliance Spending. Joss would never accept the 30 pieces of silver from even the likes of Obama.

I hope.

Hey, at least you have hope!

Taking Alliance money though, seems right in FF's wheelhouse...

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Problem is, one man's pork is another man's bacon.

Bobby Jindal decried $140 million in volcano monitoring, which is all fine and good. Being in Lousy-anna, he probably doesn't have a whole bunch of need for volcano monitoring, so it sounds like pork to him. However, if you live in the SeaTac (Seattle/Tacoma) area, it seems like a pretty damned good idea.
NO, it's still a terrible idea, if you're saying it's a STIMULUS bill. This sort of spending belongs in the budget ( and likely is there also )

Quote:

I'll bet Jindal is a whole lot more accomodating on things like hurricane monitoring and levee construction - things which, to me up here in Central Texas, sound like nothing but pork!

You'll bet = I have no idea, but I'll just say so , to make my case anyways.

And if there IS such spending ? It is pork, and belongs in the main budget, or not, as the needs should determine.

Quote:

The biggest chunk of money in ANY federal budget is defense spending,
Wrong!

Quote:
...so I have to ask all the "rein in the spending" crowd here: Which defense projects are you willing to cut out and forego? Since the military and defense budget is roughly 52% of the federal budget, that's the quickest way to cut a HUGE chunk out of any federal spending bill. So which projects go? F-22 Raptor? It's an air-superiority fighter without a mission or any opponent; can we lose that one?

Military / defense spending is roughly 16%, not 52% , of the U.S. Budget. Social Security is 1st on the list of expenditures, and Medicare is 3rd, with Defense spending 2nd.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

Thanks for trying to remind all that it's supposed to be a STIMULUS bill, not radical left-wing junk science funding and feel-goody social spending.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:31 PM

How is volcano monitoring going to stimulate the economy? How is this leveraged use of a relatively small amount of government funds going to spur the explosive wads of cashy money flowage which the economy needs?
The payback to the American taxpayer from the "investment" of taxdollars is greatest for NASA, at about $1.21 per taxdollar spent, and second is Defense at about $1.06. These are the only 2 sectors with positive returns. The worst are obviously social spending programs the Libs favor. Education around $.40 and Welfare programs around $.33 - we're just throwing that money away. NASA and Defense are long-term turnarounds, so although they should not be cut, they are not "shovel ready" stimulations for short term attention.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 2:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

The payback to the American taxpayer from the "investment" of taxdollars is greatest for NASA, at about $1.21 per taxdollar spent, and second is Defense at about $1.06. These are the only 2 sectors with positive returns. The worst are obviously social spending programs the Libs favor. Education around $.40 and Welfare programs around $.33 - we're just throwing that money away. NASA and Defense are long-term turnarounds, so although they should not be cut, they are not "shovel ready" stimulations for short term attention.

Yup, we're "throwing money away" trying to educate people. We should just send them straight to work for NASA and the defense industry! Ever wonder HOW those people got educated enough to work in those industries?

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 3:00 AM

CITIZEN

Yeah, I'm not sure where he's getting his numbers from. Even if they're accurate, NASA and Defence create marketable technologies, so can have a direct return, while education and welfare invest in those people who end up creating those technologies, so they're contribution is more indirect. If the American right got everything their way, America would be a backward Authoritarian Theocratic failed state. You could invest all your money in NASA, but if there's no education you'll just be putting money into an unused bank account.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 4:27 AM

Quote:

How is volcano monitoring going to stimulate the economy? How is this leveraged use of a relatively small amount of government funds going to spur the explosive wads of cashy money flowage which the economy needs?

How is a defense program like, say, the F-22 Raptor going to stimulate the economy? How is that leveraged use of a relatively small amount of government funds going to spur the explosive wads of cashy money flowage which teh economy needs?

The short answer is, it isn't. "Small" programs like the F22 and volcano monitoring don't, in and of themselves, stimulate huge investment or huge spending. But they DO stimulate the economy in their own small ways, by creating jobs making the equipment, making the goods, monitoring volcanoes, studying them, training "first responders", etc.

How does missile defense in the Czech Republic stimulate the economy? How does warrantless wiretapping stimulate the economy?

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:18 AM

CITIZEN

The problem isn't that there isn't enough money in the economy. There's as much money in it today as there was yesterday, or two years ago. The problem is that that money is that money isn't moving. If a small project gets the money moving, it can have an effect much greater than it's quatative input.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 9:39 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Haven't been by here lately, maybe I missed it.
Was hoping to find a thread listing all the pork in the so-called stimulus package passed by the Dems. Many news outlets have been pointing out how useless the package will be, other than to destroy the economy by pumping up the pork, but I was hoping for a more comprehensive list. Did I miss it, or have you guys let me down?

Here you go. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_o
f_2009

The pork starts on page one and continues and temporarily stops shortly after the last sentence (it resumes in the forthcoming Budget).

Most disturbing is the $80 million grant to study unnecessary spending at the Federal level.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 9:55 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

To paraphrase Obama - what the country needs is not just an economic stimulus, but INVESTMENT.

It seems you nay-sayers are out of the loop on the need for investment.

***************************************************************

Yeah, let's just run everything into the crapper. THAT'LL work ! Right ?

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Be the change you seek."

In other words, have at it. List away.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

Originally posted by Kwicko: (translation)
I'm 100% in favor of anything Obama does. I want to pleasure him orally while I hand Michelle my wallet so she can buy more stylish clothes for us all to fawn over her.

Obama can do no bad, so I don't care what is spent. Won't hurt me none, I'm not Rush Limbaugh rich.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Be the change you seek."

In other words, have at it. List away.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

Originally posted by Kwicko: (translation)
I'm 100% in favor of anything Obama does. I want to pleasure him orally while I hand Michelle my wallet so she can buy more stylish clothes for us all to fawn over her.

Obama can do no bad, so I don't care what is spent. Won't hurt me none, I'm not Rush Limbaugh rich.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

Nice. You're a class act, AuRaptor. Your mother should be proud.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 1:37 PM

Originally posted by AuLapdog: (translation)

I'm 100% in favor of anything Rush says. I want to pleasure him orally, which will be easy enough since I'm already on my knees in front of him. I just want Rush to be happy so I can keep fawning all over him.

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
To paraphrase Obama - what the country needs is not just an economic stimulus, but INVESTMENT.

It seems you nay-sayers are out of the loop on the need for investment.

***************************************************************

Yeah, let's just run everything into the crapper. THAT'LL work ! Right ?

Oh, goody. Government controlled and monitored INVESTMENT, yay. Will there be anything more useless or failureprone? Maybe like that wonderful Democrat Ponzi scheme - aaah, Social Security? (another great investment brought to you by the great mimes of the radical left).

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:33 AM

Pelosi and Obama are both far-Left agenda ideologues, advocating the death of capitalism, promoting the belief that business is evil, and that the purpose of the Fed Govt. is to wipe your ass for you when you run out of toilet paper. Wall Street sees it. Foreign investors see it. Clear-thinking Americans see it. Pelosi-Obama want a nanny-state and re-distribution of wealth. That's a big victory for all the losers, miscreants, and lazy-ass drug addicted slobs in this country. That's the total opposite of what America has always stood for. With their Govt healthcare, education, temporary work programs, etc., what you really have is full-blown state-controlled Communism. Comrade Geithner, with his endless blathering stupidity, has sent the Dow Jones into record lows, and everyone's money is either gone, or soon to be worthless. Wait 'til there's a run on the dollar, caused by foreign investors. Your money won't be worth the paper it's printed on. Just remember, you voted for this you stupid idiots, not me. Pelosi-Obama have just given you, the youth of America, a lifetime of hardship and struggle. You'll never buy a house, and never have what those before you had. You will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. The Illegal Mexican with cholera & TB, and 12 kids and family members in front of you in the store is now more of an American than you. I guess you just didn't know any better, which is sad. I guess you didn't know that you voted to live your life in mediocrity and Gov.t handout lines. Hope & Change? Yeah right! More like the end of everything we've always cherished. The American Dream of working hard to succeed in life has just now morphed into simply figuring out how much of a victim you've been, and then getting your's from Uncle Sam.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 4:21 AM

Quote:
Just remember, you voted for this you stupid idiots, not me. Pelosi-Obama have just given you, the youth of America, a lifetime of hardship and struggle. You'll never buy a house, and never have what those before you had. You will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. The Illegal Mexican with cholera & TB, and 12 kids and family members in front of you in the store is now more of an American than you. I guess you just didn't know any better, which is sad. I guess you didn't know that you voted to live your life in mediocrity and Gov.t handout lines. Hope & Change? Yeah right! More like the end of everything we've always cherished

Everyone who ever voted for Bush & Cheney voted for this. The downfall of America began the day they invaded Iraq. As Afghanistan was Russia's Viet Nam, and marked the end of their system, so Iraq is for America.

Don't say you weren't warned. You get this because it is what you deserve.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 4:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Just remember, you voted for this you stupid idiots, not me. Pelosi-Obama have just given you, the youth of America, a lifetime of hardship and struggle. You'll never buy a house, and never have what those before you had. You will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. The Illegal Mexican with cholera & TB, and 12 kids and family members in front of you in the store is now more of an American than you. I guess you just didn't know any better, which is sad. I guess you didn't know that you voted to live your life in mediocrity and Gov.t handout lines. Hope & Change? Yeah right! More like the end of everything we've always cherished

Everyone who ever voted for Bush & Cheney voted for this. The downfall of America began the day they invaded Iraq. As Afghanistan was Russia's Viet Nam, and marked the end of their system, so Iraq is for America.

Don't say you weren't warned. You get this because it is what you deserve.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

Foreign policy is not the same as Economic or Social policy. Your Bush/Cheney hatred is sadly obvious, but it does not excuse or permit the Pelosi/Obama hijacking of America; taking it full steam on the road to European-style socialism, destroying entrepeneurial capitalism and the American spirit along the way. Lemme take a wild guess....you must be a victim of something, right? Country owes you somethin', right? Well I hope you enjoy whatever measley handout Pelosi-Obama send you. It won't last long. There isn't enough paper and ink to print all the trillions of worthless dollars they're creating for you and the next generations.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 6:11 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

JewSF

"Oh, goody. Government controlled and monitored INVESTMENT, yay. Will there be anything more useless or failureprone? Maybe like that wonderful Democrat Ponzi scheme - aaah, Social Security? (another great investment brought to you by the great mimes of the radical left)."

We are STILL living off the GOVERNMENT infrastructure investment from the last Great Depression. And those highways and freeways you drive on ? Government investment. Your local roads ? Government investment. The fact that YOU can read (though sadly, not think) ? Government investment in YOUR education. Space travel and spin-off technology ? Government investment. The human genome project ? Government investment. The INTERNET you use EVERY DAY ? Government investment.

As for Social Security - what the HELL do you think the government has been using to bail itself out ? In case you don’t know - and I KNOW you don’t - it uses the largess of the Social Security program which was designed to be completely self-funded through the baby boom. Oh, I know – YOU want Social Security to be privatized - so it can be the ROARING success the stock market has been.

So, are you an liar - or an idiot ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 6:21 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Jong, Jong, Jong ...

So, by letting the tax cuts for the wealthy lapse as was intended (and those tax cuts worked so very well as a stimulus plan, eh ?) Obama is what again ? A socialist ? Ahhh, for the days of Ronald Reagan when the top tax rate was 50% on income over 175,000. What a socialist !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 6:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The biggest chunk of money in ANY federal budget is defense spending,-Kwicko

Wrong! -Rapo

There you go again!

DoD IS the biggest part of the Federal budget... yanno,. the part funded by INCOME TAXES. 50% of your April15 payment goes to the DoD.

Deal with it, ya moron.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:24 AM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Just remember, you voted for this you stupid idiots, not me. Pelosi-Obama have just given you, the youth of America, a lifetime of hardship and struggle. You'll never buy a house, and never have what those before you had. You will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. The Illegal Mexican with cholera & TB, and 12 kids and family members in front of you in the store is now more of an American than you. I guess you just didn't know any better, which is sad. I guess you didn't know that you voted to live your life in mediocrity and Gov.t handout lines. Hope & Change? Yeah right! More like the end of everything we've always cherished

Everyone who ever voted for Bush & Cheney voted for this. The downfall of America began the day they invaded Iraq. As Afghanistan was Russia's Viet Nam, and marked the end of their system, so Iraq is for America.

Don't say you weren't warned. You get this because it is what you deserve.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

Foreign policy is not the same as Economic or Social policy.

True enough, but pouring I-have-no-idea-anymore-how-many billions of dollars into Iraq didn't help the economic end.

Quote:
Your Bush/Cheney hatred is sadly obvious

Yeah, but it's fun (for a given value of 'fun'), and in certain instances you can use it as a dessert topping

Quote:
but it does not excuse or permit the Pelosi/Obama hijacking of America;

You're right, we shoulda let the other side keep it hijacked for another eight years...'cause that recipe for success was surely just a day or two away from getting results

Quote:
taking it full steam on the road to European-style socialism, destroying entrepeneurial capitalism and the American spirit along the way.

Okay...fine. I don't really have anything even vaguely responsive to that, so I'll just leave it at: "Dogs and cats...living together...mass hysteria!"

Quote:
Lemme take a wild guess....you must be a victim of something, right? Country owes you somethin', right?

I'm a victim of many somethings, most all of them of my own moronic making. As for what this country owes me, I have no idea. What I would like is if the country's string-pullers would stop improving their situation at the expense of the pull-ees. Hopelessly niave, I know, but it's a dream I have.

Quote:
Well I hope you enjoy whatever measley handout Pelosi-Obama send you.

Thank you, JS - I hope I do, too.

Quote:
It won't last long.

That sort of thing never does with me.

Quote:
There isn't enough paper and ink to print all the trillions of worthless dollars they're creating for you and the next generations.

There will be if we put this nation's unemployed to work making more ink and more paper. I mean, talk about "shovel-ready"...

It was like that when we got here!

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Jong, Jong, Jong ...

So, by letting the tax cuts for the wealthy lapse as was intended (and those tax cuts worked so very well as a stimulus plan, eh ?) Obama is what again ? A socialist ? Ahhh, for the days of Ronald Reagan when the top tax rate was 50% on income over 175,000. What a socialist !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Reagan cut the top tax rate from the 50% it was under Carter down to 28%. The result was the creation of millions of jobs and a revitalized economy. Obama's doing the exact opposite. Wall Street & foreign investors see it for what it is, and they are scared to death, hence the ongoing un-precedented market meltdown. Obama-Pelosi will bankrupt America, just like their Democrat allies in the Legislatures of California & Michigan have bankrupted those states with their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs. But you keep believing, Rue. Faith is a wonderful thing.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Just remember, you voted for this you stupid idiots, not me. Pelosi-Obama have just given you, the youth of America, a lifetime of hardship and struggle. You'll never buy a house, and never have what those before you had. You will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. The Illegal Mexican with cholera & TB, and 12 kids and family members in front of you in the store is now more of an American than you. I guess you just didn't know any better, which is sad. I guess you didn't know that you voted to live your life in mediocrity and Gov.t handout lines. Hope & Change? Yeah right! More like the end of everything we've always cherished

Everyone who ever voted for Bush & Cheney voted for this. The downfall of America began the day they invaded Iraq. As Afghanistan was Russia's Viet Nam, and marked the end of their system, so Iraq is for America.

Don't say you weren't warned. You get this because it is what you deserve.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

Foreign policy is not the same as Economic or Social policy.

True enough, but pouring I-have-no-idea-anymore-how-many billions of dollars into Iraq didn't help the economic end.

Quote:
Your Bush/Cheney hatred is sadly obvious

Yeah, but it's fun (for a given value of 'fun'), and in certain instances you can use it as a dessert topping

Quote:
but it does not excuse or permit the Pelosi/Obama hijacking of America;

You're right, we shoulda let the other side keep it hijacked for another eight years...'cause that recipe for success was surely just a day or two away from getting results

Quote:
taking it full steam on the road to European-style socialism, destroying entrepeneurial capitalism and the American spirit along the way.

Okay...fine. I don't really have anything even vaguely responsive to that, so I'll just leave it at: "Dogs and cats...living together...mass hysteria!"

Quote:
Lemme take a wild guess....you must be a victim of something, right? Country owes you somethin', right?

I'm a victim of many somethings, most all of them of my own moronic making. As for what this country owes me, I have no idea. What I would like is if the country's string-pullers would stop improving their situation at the expense of the pull-ees. Hopelessly niave, I know, but it's a dream I have.

Quote:
Well I hope you enjoy whatever measley handout Pelosi-Obama send you.

Thank you, JS - I hope I do, too.

Quote:
It won't last long.

That sort of thing never does with me.

Quote:
There isn't enough paper and ink to print all the trillions of worthless dollars they're creating for you and the next generations.

There will be if we put this nation's unemployed to work making more ink and more paper. I mean, talk about "shovel-ready"...

It was like that when we got here!

Washn, You have a nice self-depricating style and sense of humor. Very enjoyable, Kudos!

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:42 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

year ... % ... income over--
1913 ... 7 ... 500,000
1914 ... 7 ... 500,000
1915 ... 7 ... 500,000
1916 ... 15 ... 2,000,000
1917 ... 67 ... 2,000,000
1918 ... 77 ... 1,000,000
1919 ... 73 ... 1,000,000
1920 ... 73 ... 1,000,000
1921 ... 73 ... 1,000,000
1922 ... 58 ... 200,000
1923 ... 43 ... 200,000
1924 ... 46 ... 500,000
1925 ... 25 ... 100,000
1926 ... 25 ... 100,000
1927 ... 25 ... 100,000
1928 ... 25 ... 100,000
1929 ... 24 ... 100,000
1930 ... 25 ... 100,000
1931 ... 25 ... 100,000
1932 ... 63 ... 1,000,000
1933 ... 63 ... 1,000,000
1934 ... 63 ... 1,000,000
1935 ... 63 ... 1,000,000
1936 ... 79 ... 5,000,000
1937 ... 79 ... 5,000,000
1938 ... 79 ... 5,000,000
1939 ... 79 ... 5,000,000
1940 ... 81 ... 5,000,000
1941 ... 81 ... 5,000,000
1942 ... 88 ... 200,000
1943 ... 88 ... 200,000
1944 ... 94 ... 200,000
1945 ... 94 ... 200,000
1946 ... 86 ... 200,000
1947 ... 86 ... 200,000
1948 ... 82 ... 400,000
1949 ... 82 ... 400,000
1950 ... 84 ... 400,000
1951 ... 91 ... 400,000
1952 ... 92 ... 400,000
1953 ... 92 ... 400,000
1954 ... 91 ... 400,000
1955 ... 91 ... 400,000
1956 ... 91 ... 400,000
1957 ... 91 ... 400,000
1958 ... 91 ... 400,000
1959 ... 91 ... 400,000
1960 ... 91 ... 400,000
1961 ... 91 ... 400,000
1962 ... 91 ... 400,000
1963 ... 91 ... 400,000
1964 ... 77 ... 400,000
1965 ... 70 ... 200,000
1966 ... 70 ... 200,000
1967 ... 70 ... 200,000
1968 ... 75 ... 200,000
1969 ... 77 ... 200,000
1970 ... 71 ... 200,000
1971 ... 70 ... 200,000
1972 ... 70 ... 200,000
1973 ... 70 ... 200,000
1974 ... 70 ... 200,000
1975 ... 70 ... 200,000
1976 ... 70 ... 200,000
1977 ... 70 ... 203,200
1978 ... 70 ... 203,200
1979 ... 70 ... 215,400
1980 ... 70 ... 215,400
1981 ... 69 ... 215,400 < Reagan
1982 ... 50 ... 85,600
1983 ... 50 ... 109,400
1984 ... 50 ... 162,400
1985 ... 50 ... 169,020
1986 ... 50 ... 175,250
1987 ... 38. ... 90,000
1988 ... 28 ... 29,750
1989 ... 28 ... 30,950 < Reagan
1990 ... 28 ... 32,450
1991 ... 31 ... 82,150
1992 ... 31 ... 86,500
1993 ... 39 ... 89,150
1994 ... 39 ... 250,000
1995 ... 39 ... 256,500
1996 ... 39 ... 263,750
1997 ... 39 ... 271,050
1998 ... 39 ... 278,450
1999 ... 39 ... 283,150
2000 ... 39 ... 288,350
2001 ... 39 ... 297,350
2002 ... 38 ... 307,050
2003 ... 35 ... 311,950

So, the booming economy you attribute to Reagan retroactively started before he cut taxes in the last years of his reign ?
***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Foreign policy is not the same as Economic or Social policy. Your Bush/Cheney hatred is sadly obvious, but it does not excuse or permit the Pelosi/Obama hijacking of America; taking it full steam on the road to European-style socialism, destroying entrepeneurial capitalism and the American spirit along the way. Lemme take a wild guess....you must be a victim of something, right? Country owes you somethin', right? Well I hope you enjoy whatever measley handout Pelosi-Obama send you. It won't last long.

Good to know you're okay with blowing trillions of dollars and pissing it away - so long as we do it somewhere other than in our own country.

Your Obama hatred is sadly obvious, but it does not excuse or permit the Bush/Cheney hijacking of America; taking it full steam on the road to medieval European-style feudalism with a side order of fascism thrown in for good measure, destroying entrepeneurial capitalism and American competitiveness and laying its dead corpse at the doorsteps of corporatism, and selling the American spirit and the American way to China along the way - where it can be stamped out for less than two cents a unit!

Quote:
There isn't enough paper and ink to print all the trillions of worthless dollars they're creating for you and the next generations.

Why is that? Is it because Bush and his toadies used all the ink & paper to print themselves all the money they could loot from the Fed on the way out the door?

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:20 AM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Washn, You have a nice self-depricating style and sense of humor. Very enjoyable, Kudos!

Thanks, JS! Maybe I (or you, or damn near anyone else here) could give some pointers to Geitner (GeitHner?) - that guy has all the podium presence of vat protein.

And kudos to you for taking it in the spirit it was primarily intended.

It was like that when we got here!

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Jong, Jong, Jong ...

So, by letting the tax cuts for the wealthy lapse as was intended (and those tax cuts worked so very well as a stimulus plan, eh ?) Obama is what again ? A socialist ? Ahhh, for the days of Ronald Reagan when the top tax rate was 50% on income over 175,000. What a socialist !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Reagan cut the top tax rate from the 50% it was under Carter down to 28%. The result was the creation of millions of jobs and a revitalized economy. Obama's doing the exact opposite. Wall Street & foreign investors see it for what it is, and they are scared to death, hence the ongoing un-precedented market meltdown. Obama-Pelosi will bankrupt America, just like their Democrat allies in the Legislatures of California & Michigan have bankrupted those states with their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs. But you keep believing, Rue. Faith is a wonderful thing.

What was the top tax rate under Eisenhower? I know you know; spill it.

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

The payback to the American taxpayer from the "investment" of taxdollars is greatest for NASA, at about $1.21 per taxdollar spent, and second is Defense at about $1.06. These are the only 2 sectors with positive returns. The worst are obviously social spending programs the Libs favor. Education around $.40 and Welfare programs around $.33 - we're just throwing that money away. NASA and Defense are long-term turnarounds, so although they should not be cut, they are not "shovel ready" stimulations for short term attention.

Yup, we're "throwing money away" trying to educate people. We should just send them straight to work for NASA and the defense industry! Ever wonder HOW those people got educated enough to work in those industries?

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

Ummmm... JSF?

You never did answer the question -

HOW are all these people just going to magically show up and work for NASA or the military/industrial complex after we stop throwing money away on educating them?

Do you imagine that we're born with the innate ability to figure out orbital trajectories, escape velocities, launch windows, ballistics tables, and the like?

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Funny line comes to mind...

From John Ringo's Legacy of the Alldenata series.
(I forget which book exactly)

"This is what happens when you let rednecks play with antimatter..."

Given the context, it's downright hi-larious.

-F

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Funny line comes to mind...

From John Ringo's Legacy of the Alldenata series.
(I forget which book exactly)

"This is what happens when you let rednecks play with antimatter..."

Given the context, it's downright hi-larious.

-F

Shit, just given the context of this thread, it's hilarious!

Thanks for that, Frem - I needed something to laugh about today.

And can you imagine a bunch of rednecks being turned loose on NASA or a defense contractor? "Hey, what's this big red button do?" followed by "Hey, y'all - watch this!"

Followed by a mushroom cloud...

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 10:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

LoL, I looked it up, it's From "When the Devil Dances"...

Quote:
"And if they don't?" the President asked.
"There's . . . at least one other option," Horner said with a smile that for him indicated extreme unhappiness. "The University of Tennessee has both a SheVa gun enhancement testbed program and a nuclear, antimatter rather, rounds program."
"So . . . they can fire?" the President asked. "Antimatter is better than nukes, right? I mean, their fire can reach the Gap? And it's a better, a cleaner, system?"
"Possibly," Horner answered. "I'd . . . Both of the systems are experimental, ma'am. And their . . . area denial round has never been field-tested. It's also . . . rather large, a very heavy warhead; you really would prefer not to know the megatonnage. The first time I fire something, I don't want the price of failure being the loss of the entire Cumberland Valley."
"Oh."
Horner shrugged at her expression. "I suppose this is what I get for letting rednecks play with antimatter; they just don't know when to say 'Okay, that's 'nough!' Instead, it's always 'Hey, y'all! Watch this!' I only became . . . apprised of the size of the round when we went looking for something to open up the Gap. I've since ordered a 'reevaluation' of the program.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:06 AM

KIRKULES

Bump to fix title.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Bump to fix title.

thanks. What was the title yesterday?

Say, I'm wondering. The reign of FDR produced many to never again think for themselves, and be lifelong Democrats. Anybody think that the same will be for Obama, that all African Americans from this day and for many score to come, will stop thinking and just assume they are required to be liberal Dems? Just because he's darker than the others?

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Friday, March 6, 2009 12:52 AM

Incorrect data:

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
year ... % ... income over--

1973 ... 70 ... 200,000
1974 ... 70 ... 200,000
1975 ... 70 ... 200,000
1976 ... 70 ... 200,000
1977 ... 70 ... 203,200
1978 ... 70 ... 203,200
1979 ... 70 ... 215,400
1980 ... 70 ... 215,400
1981 ... 69 ... 215,400 < Reagan
1982 ... 50 ... 85,600
1983 ... 50 ... 109,400
1984 ... 50 ... 162,400
1985 ... 50 ... 169,020
1986 ... 50 ... 175,250
1987 ... 38. ... 90,000
1988 ... 28 ... 29,750
1989 ... 28 ... 30,950 < Reagan
1990 ... 28 ... 32,450
1991 ... 31 ... 82,150
1992 ... 31 ... 86,500
1993 ... 39 ... 89,150
1994 ... 39 ... 250,000
1995 ... 39 ... 256,500
1996 ... 39 ... 263,750
1997 ... 39 ... 271,050
1998 ... 39 ... 278,450
1999 ... 39 ... 283,150
2000 ... 39 ... 288,350
2001 ... 39 ... 297,350
2002 ... 38 ... 307,050
2003 ... 35 ... 311,950

So, the booming economy you attribute to Reagan retroactively started before he cut taxes in the last years of his reign ?

The Federal fiscal budget for 1981: Carter takes office 1977, proposes budgets through FY1981. 1978 Carter updates budgets including FY1981. 1979 Carter updates Budgets including FY1981,
1980 Carter finalized and enacted FY81 budget, starting Oct 1980. Three months later, RWR takes office with horrendous economy and antagonist Congress which wants the economy to stay the same.

Reagan proposed FY1989 budget in 1984. Updated and fought for FY1989 budget in 1985-87. Enacted 1988.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 2:34 AM