REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Who Did This???

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Saturday, June 27, 2009 17:11
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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW



Article : "BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan — The American military doctors watched in horror as the oxygen mask on the young Afghan girl's face started to melt.

The 8-year-old's skin was smoking from white phosphorus, a lethal chemical. Her hair was burned away. Her face, head, neck and arms were scorched yellow, pink and black.

When the doctors tried to scrape away the dead tissue, flames leapt out.

More than 15 surgeries later, Razia is scheduled to be released Wednesday from the U.S. military hospital at Bagram.

She can smile again. She has learned to say "ice cream" in English and play catch with nurses. But her skin will remain scarred, her hair will never grow back and the mystery behind her tragedy remains unsolved: Who fired the white phosphorus?

After months of care, her nurse, a mother of three girls back in the U.S., considers Razia her fourth daughter.

"You're just not even sure whether this child is going to make it or not," said Capt. Christine Collins. "And then seeing her actually walk for the first time, taking her outside for the first time ... it's one of those life-changing things that you'll never, ever forget."

———

Razia had just finished breakfast when U.S., French and Afghan forces appeared near her village March 14 in the Tagab Valley of Kapisa, north of Kabul. Abdul Aziz, a father of nine, told his children to get inside their mud-brick home.

But two shells ripped through the house. Fire, smoke and dust filled the room.

"The sound of the blast was very strong and I was almost unconscious. I couldn't think. My children were shouting at me: 'Wake up! You're burning!" Aziz said.

Flames engulfed Razia. Aziz dumped a bucket of water on her but the chemicals burned on. Two of Razia's sisters lay dead. Five other family members, including the mother, were seriously wounded.

Aziz took Razia to the Afghan soldiers near his home, but they could do nothing. A private Afghan vehicle took Aziz and his daughter to the nearby French base. Razia slipped in and out of consciousness as her father poured water on her face to keep her awake.

———

White phosphorus burns until it's gone. It can burn right down to the bone.

U.S and NATO troops use white phosphorus to illuminate targets, create smoke screens and destroy old bunkers, but say they don't use it as a weapon. While white phosphorus is not banned under international law, human rights groups denounce its use in populated areas. U.S. officials allege that militants have used white phosphorus in mortars or rockets at least 12 times in the last several years.

Aziz is convinced international forces fired the round that destroyed his home. French troops in green armored personnel carriers, U.S. troops in tan Humvees and Afghan soldiers gathered nearby before the attack, Aziz said. The Taliban in his region have only AK-47s, heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, he said.

A U.S. military spokeswoman with NATO's security force said military officials can't be certain whether it was their own round or an enemy round that hit Razia's house.

"Either scenario is possible, and equally regrettable," Maj. Jennifer Willis said. "One thing is certain: Razia will have the best care that we can give her."

Two U.S. officials told The Associated Press that the battle was primarily a French operation. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the nationality of the force involved.

In Paris, military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said French troops don't have white phosphorus bombs but do have rounds to create smoke screens or illuminate targets. He could not immediately say whether such devices were used in the March 14 battle.

———

A U.S. medevac helicopter stopped at the French base to pick up Razia. Medic Sgt. Stephen Park looked in a waiting ambulance and saw the girl burned "from head to waist."

"And the first thing I said to them was, 'Is she still alive?"' Park said.

A father himself, the 33-year-old from Reno, Nev., picked up the girl and told his pilots to fly at top speed. They arrived at Bagram's SSG Heath N. Craig Joint Theater Hospital 20 minutes later, only a couple of hours after the battle.

"It was intense, very emotional," said Park. "When we got (to Bagram) I think even all the ER staff and all the doctors and nurses didn't think she was going to make it."

Victims with burns covering more than 50 percent of their bodies don't survive. Razia had burns on 40 to 45 percent of her body. Capt. Autumn Richards, a pediatrician from Fort Bliss, Texas, who first saw Razia in the operating room, didn't think the girl would live. White powder covered her skin, and flames shot out from her body.

"It was a very surprising thing to us, and very scary," said Richards. "I do remember trying to keep the oxygen off her, because of course that's a flammable gas, and we all realized after the fact that it was a very dangerous situation."

Capt. Collins served as Razia's primary nurse during the first weeks of care. Razia, who was hooked up to a feeding tube, wouldn't respond to the nurses or doctors even after a week in the hospital. Collins used her experience as a mother to reach out. Nurses carefully lifted Razia out of bed, and Collins rocked her for an hour.

"After that she was a completely different child," she said, her voice cracking. "She smiled for the first time. She was looking at her father and started talking to her father a lot more. And at that point I knew we would have this bond that would probably last a lifetime with her," Collins said.

Every day Collins had a goal: Get Razia out of bed. Sit her in a chair. Create a moment of normalcy. A month into Razia's recovery, Collins decided it was time for her to walk. The first day she took three steps, an effort that exhausted her. Within weeks she could walk to the hospital kitchen. Ten weeks after being injured, she could run.

In the moments of pain, Collins rocked Razia, sang to her, and wiped away the girl's tears.

"It was very intense, a labor of love, in working with her. It was an absolute pleasure and honor," said Collins, who is stationed at Nellis Air Force Base outside Las Vegas.

The American team has tried to help Razia feel normal. Nurses painted her fingernails red, a splash of color next to scarred skin. A friend in the U.S. sent a black wig, which Razia wore with a wide smile.

Razia still appears shy, and is reluctant to answer questions. Her nurse says she has her good days and bad days.

But on a recent sunny day, Razia led nurse 1st Lt. Michelle Smith to the cafeteria, where she loaded kiwis, bananas, a Gatorade shake and an ice cream bar into her wheelchair. Doctors and nurses gave the tiny patient high fives and smiles.

———

Doctors expect Razia to recover — barring any serious infections — but the scars will remain. The skin on her arms, legs, chest and face are a scaly red. Most of her head is scarred red scalp. Much of her left ear is burned off.

The staff quietly worries that Razia may never have a normal life in Afghanistan, where women in the countryside are mostly defined by the marriage they enter.

"Burns are horrific. They're so disfiguring, and when you put those burns on a child you just wonder what their lives are going to be like," said 1st Lt. Gary Webb, an Air Force nurse stationed in Colorado Springs. "It just really is heartbreaking. You just don't know what's going to happen."

At the hospital, Razia's father overheard a police officer tell another official: "No one will marry her."

"I was so angry I wanted to run after him and punch him," Aziz said. "Instead of saying something good, they only wanted to say something negative. I hadn't even thought of (her marriage situation) before."

When Razia is released from the hospital, she won't find her old home. It was destroyed by the rounds that disfigured her body. Her wounded relatives have recovered but show signs of post-traumatic stress disorder.

Her father once ran a vegetable shop, but he has no more money. He is thankful to the U.S. team for the extraordinary medical care but remains laden with worry. His family's future — and Razia's — is uncertain."





I have no words, except to ask is this what we're doing, or fighting against? Doesn't really matter to her though.




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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:37 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I have no words, except to ask is this what we're doing, or fighting against? Doesn't really matter to her though.

The Al Queda terrorists and the Taliban are entirely responsible for the injury to this child. They should be ashamed.

She has the right to live in peace. She has the right to learn, to walk openly without fear, to be secure in her person, to speak her mind, to have an equal right in her government, to worship God as she chooses, to work in any career (doctor, lawyer, President of her country, etc), own and be secure in her own property, and to not live as a slave to the whims of terrorists and fanatics.

The Taliban and Al Queda have denied her these rights and by their ongoing terrorism and efforts to enslave or destroy the Afghan people they are directly responsible for her injury.

The American Army is responible only for giving her a chance at freedom and saving her life. Our soldiers should be proud of their efforts and direct their understandable feelings of sorrow, rage, and frustration towards the enemy. Hunt them down and kill them and keep hunting and killing them until they give up or they're all dead.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:15 AM

CHRISISALL


Time for anti-depression meds.

There's no emoticon for how sad this makes me.

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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Time for anti-depression meds.

There's no emoticon for how sad this makes me.

Me too. I know she's not the first child to be maimed horribly, whether in Afghanistan or Iraq, and usually I don't even look. For some reason I had to post this. Between this story and the girl Neda in Iran, I've turned into a quivering ball of jelly, sick to my stomach over all this senseless violence.

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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:29 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I have no words, except to ask is this what we're doing, or fighting against? Doesn't really matter to her though.

The Al Queda terrorists and the Taliban are entirely responsible for the injury to this child. They should be ashamed.

She has the right to live in peace. She has the right to learn, to walk openly without fear, to be secure in her person, to speak her mind, to have an equal right in her government, to worship God as she chooses, to work in any career (doctor, lawyer, President of her country, etc), own and be secure in her own property, and to not live as a slave to the whims of terrorists and fanatics.

The Taliban and Al Queda have denied her these rights and by their ongoing terrorism and efforts to enslave or destroy the Afghan people they are directly responsible for her injury.

The American Army is responible only for giving her a chance at freedom and saving her life. Our soldiers should be proud of their efforts and direct their understandable feelings of sorrow, rage, and frustration towards the enemy. Hunt them down and kill them and keep hunting and killing them until they give up or they're all dead.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

Thanks for your post Hero, as it does help to put things in perspective.

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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Hunt them down and kill them and keep hunting and killing them until they give up or they're all dead.

Hero, I TOTALLY understand this sentiment, but letting hate creep into your being because of things like this lead to the Dark Side. Yes, let's take care of the mad dogs, but let's also embrace no vengeance in the need to put them down.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:23 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Hunt them down and kill them and keep hunting and killing them until they give up or they're all dead.

Hero, I TOTALLY understand this sentiment, but letting hate creep into your being because of things like this lead to the Dark Side. Yes, let's take care of the mad dogs, but let's also embrace no vengeance in the need to put them down.

War is an emotional thing. This is not a matter of vengence against those who did this. Its a matter of war. In war you kill the enemy until they stop fighting...either because their will is broken or they are all dead.

As for my hope that our soldiers direct their negative emotions back into their mission...thats for their own good and the good of the mission. Soldiers will feel frustration, rage, sorrow, fear, etc. I want them using those emotions, not bottling them up or ignoring them. Thats what leads to the insanity so many suffer.

We can't send them to war and expect them not to express their feelings. We then use training, disipline, and good leadership to properly channel those emotions and reign them in as needed.

Hmm...lets ask the most successful military commander in US history what he thinks:

"There are three reasons why we are fighting this war. The first is because we are determined to preserve our traditional liberties. Some crazy...decided...that it was their holy mission to rule the world. They've been pushing people around all over the world, looting, killing, and abusing millions of innocent men, women, and children. They were getting set to do the same thing to us. We had to fight to prevent being subjugated.

The second reason we are fighting is to defeat and wipe out the [terrorists] who started all this goddamned son-of-bitchery. They didn't think we could or would fight, and they weren't the only ones who thought that, either. There are certain people back home who had the same idea. Both were wrong.

The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophists and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men.

If you don't like to fight, I don't want you around. You'd better get out before I kick you out. But there is one thing to remember. In war, it takes more than the desire to fight to win. You've got to have more than guts to lick the enemy. You must also have brains. It takes brains and guts to win wars. A man with guts but no brains is only half a soldier.

That's all and good luck."

Thanks General...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:07 AM

BYTEMITE


Like Chris, I don't know if I agree with your sentiments, Hero. If we weren't there, would this have happened?

Saying that we're fighting for the freedom of the Afghan people when things like this happen, and that the only thing we can do in response is to press on and win... That seems like a justification to me. And it's also insensitive to the father, who seems to believe our peacekeepers are responsible for this.

However, this is very sad, and I am glad that SOMEONE was there to treat the girl. If not the US military, then it likely would have been an American doctor for Doctors Without Borders.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:25 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Like Chris, I don't know if I agree with your sentiments, Hero. If we weren't there, would this have happened?

Saying that we're fighting for the freedom of the Afghan people when things like this happen, and that the only thing we can do in response is to press on and win... That seems like a justification to me. And it's also insensitive to the father, who seems to believe our peacekeepers are responsible for this.

Thats because he and you have the same logic. Using your logic shifts blame from those responsible.

You start with 'its our fault for being there.' You don't realize that the same logic blames the father, he knew how dangerous it was, its his fault for not taking his children and leaving.

You are correct, we are fighting for this girl's freedom. The Taliban is fighting to enslave her.

As they say in Ghana, "when two elephants fight it is the grass that suffers". Thats kinda what war is about.

War is bad, not being free is worse. Iran is showing us the alternative. You can't peacefully protest your way to freedom against unrestrained tyranny. Ghandi proved that. Britain had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Ghandi and crush the protests before they ever began...but they could not, because they restrained themselves. Iran, Al Queda, the Taliban...they have no such restraint.

Lets face it, the Taliban would chop this girls head off on national TV and the internet if they thought it would make their point.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:40 AM

BYTEMITE


I guess I just don't feel like that's a judgment we can make. We're choosing FOR these people, not letting THEM choose. Is that really Freedom?

Not to mention, they're dying because of it. Did they choose to die, just because they didn't want to leave their land? If it were foreign troops and insurgents on American soil, would you leave YOUR land? Or would you stay because you love it, because your culture and your job and source of income and all you know is here?

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Every living US president should be arrested for treason and mass murder under US Code and state statutes, tortured at Gitmo, all a$$ets forfeited, given a public trial with a public defender, convicted, then given the death penalty by hanging until their heads pop off. Same for all their supporters and associates.

Same for the entire govt of Israel, who genocides Gaza with nukes and WP.

Same for the monarchy and govt on England.

Same for all private central bank board members and share owners.

This is the only way for USA to survive.

Speaking of devils, the private "Federal" Reserve Bank Corporation plans a "bank holiday" to devalue the so-called "US dollar" (Federal Reserve Note), to double the cost of all imports and begin hyper-inflation. Stealing $20-trillion/year aint' enough for their greed.
www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14077
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Banking_Act
www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=5755

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:24 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men.

Hero, I challenge you to Mortal Combat!!!


The Johnny Cage Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Using your logic shifts blame from those responsible.


You mean from coalition forces?

You're trying to shift responsibility to a little girl, essentially saying if she hadn't stood in the way of that shell, she wouldn't have gotten hit, and blaming her for it.

At least, that's sure as hell what it seems like.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


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Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Lets face it, the Taliban would chop this girls head off on national TV and the internet if they thought it would make their point.


Yeah, but so would the CIA.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:55 AM

OPPYH


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Time for anti-depression meds.

There's no emoticon for how sad this makes me.


Anger, and sadness don't begin to cover it.

There are evil people in the world, and Karma is a vicious thing if your evil I'm sure.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:39 PM

FREMDFIRMA


And so where is this outrage when Israel shells Palestine with the damned things ?
http://www.hrw.org/en/features/israelgaza-photographs-white-phosphorus
-use

Oh, and don't bother to deny it, not only do we know the nomenclature, we know the exact type of round, and through another agency got our hands on an expended casing with the damn lot numbers on it, it being an american-made 155 mm M825A1 casing of lot number PB-91K018-035, manufactured right at Pine Bluff Arsenal in 1991.

Oh, did I mention they were shelling a fucking SCHOOL with the damn things, and a hospital, while UN personnel were screaming over the radio trying to get them to stop ?

While what happened to this kid is horrific, until we stop manufacturing this particular weapon, and shipping it to not only our so-called-ally who uses it so, but also whatever allies-of-the-moment we happen to be supplying (and remember folks, at one time that was OBL/Mujahideen) then how in the hell can we even pretend moral outrage ?

And worse, given the difficulty of manufacture and machining, even if the other guys DID fire that shell - it's very likely one we sold or gave them back when we were using them as a proxy against the Soviets.

It's like land mines, some weapons create so damn much collateral damage that only a complete fucking lunatic or outright terrorist would use them - and until WE stop manufacturing and using them, pointing the finger at other people for doing so is going to fall a little flat, folks.

Personally I file white phosphorous right up there with Mustard Gas or Sarin-B, the type of bad shit that we theoretically invaded Iraq over even HAVING, and yet we and our so-called-allies tend to use indiscriminately.

If you want smoke, use smoke - if you want smoke *and* to reduce enemy units or combination area denial/cover use CS/smoke, still nasty, but you'll not wind up with civvies like this poor kid here.

I feel bad for that no matter the cause, but so long as we and our allies use that shit as indiscriminately as we do, and lookin at the results in palestine - I have more than a little trouble swallowing any moral outrage from us over this incident.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, June 26, 2009 2:59 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You're trying to shift responsibility to a little girl, essentially saying if she hadn't stood in the way of that shell, she wouldn't have gotten hit, and blaming her for it.

At least, that's sure as hell what it seems like.

Thats because your reasoning is faulty. You are looking at the incident in the home as though that were all there was to this.

I'm not blaming the girl. Hell, I'm not even blaming her father, although there is an argument that he failed to secure for her the blessings of liberty. I'm blaming the Taliban and Al Queda. Those are the people who conquered that country and turned it into a living hell for her gender and took the freedoms and liberty all men and women have and buried them under a mountain of tyrannical cultural and religeous fanaticism. They also attacked the United States and are directly repsonible for our involvement.

What you don't understand is that this girl was born a slave to a culture and religeon that is wrong. It is not our place to make that determination, nor have I done so. I did not judge their culture and religeon evil. I merely recognize it for what it is. Its wrong, it should be fought, even if some God said "the brutal treatment and oppression of women is the way it should be" then such a God would be wrong and should be opposed.

We hold these truths to be self evident. That girl was created my equal. She was endowed by her creator with certain inalienable rights. The right to live, the right to be free, the right to be happy. That is not just the founding principal of America...its the First Law of Man. It is good and true and right for everyone...not just a product of geographical birth or gender or time or place or circumstance or wealth or power or good breeding or anything else.

If her father loved her and wants a better and safer world for her...he should get himself a gun and picture of Osama and go hunting bad guys and I'm sure we can whistle up some fellas to help him out.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, June 26, 2009 3:01 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Lets face it, the Taliban would chop this girls head off on national TV and the internet if they thought it would make their point.


Yeah, but so would the CIA.

Wow. CIA chopping little girls heads off on national TV...missed that show, was it on NBC?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, June 26, 2009 3:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I have no words, except to ask is this what we're doing, or fighting against? Doesn't really matter to her though.

The Al Queda terrorists and the Taliban are entirely responsible for the injury to this child. They should be ashamed.

She has the right to live in peace. She has the right to learn, to walk openly without fear, to be secure in her person, to speak her mind, to have an equal right in her government, to worship God as she chooses, to work in any career (doctor, lawyer, President of her country, etc), own and be secure in her own property, and to not live as a slave to the whims of terrorists and fanatics.

The Taliban and Al Queda have denied her these rights and by their ongoing terrorism and efforts to enslave or destroy the Afghan people they are directly responsible for her injury.

The American Army is responible only for giving her a chance at freedom and saving her life. Our soldiers should be proud of their efforts and direct their understandable feelings of sorrow, rage, and frustration towards the enemy. Hunt them down and kill them and keep hunting and killing them until they give up or they're all dead.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.


You do have a point about the American Army being the only ones who can truly give them a "chance" at a better life.

If things are really that bad for the average citizen, and I do believe that there is a VERY good chance that this is true, our efforts over there have been fortunate enough to benefit some of them.

Sadly, I think any positives that come out of it are merely coincidental or a byproduct of our true intentions there.

Why do we police the world when we so obviously do nothing to prevent the corrupted from entering America? Hell... we promote it by giving every illegal free healthcare and school and bankrupting our communities in the process.

"We" do it because there are some of We that aren't looking out for the best interests of the rest of We the People.

This is a one world equation. We aren't all dancing on the strings of the same puppet master and singing the same pledge of allegiance in the same language yet......

But that doesn't mean that we aren't all just playing out our roles.


"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 26, 2009 3:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

What you don't understand is that this girl was born a slave to a culture and religeon that is wrong. It is not our place to make that determination, nor have I done so.


What YOU don't understand is that while you're saying that it's not our place to make that determination, and that you haven't made that determination, you just made that determination. YOU said, in your own words, that "this girl was born a slave to a culture and 'religeon' that is wrong." *I* didn't say it, you did. Talk about your faulty reasoning...

Others may feel that YOU follow a culture and religion that are wrong. Does that justify them hitting your house with some Willie Pete? And if they do, can I just sit smugly back and say, "Well, he had it coming... he never should have supported oppressive fascist regimes! He got what he deserved, as did the people in the twin towers..."

You're making cheap excuses for abominable behavior, and you're doing it on purely partisan terms. You'd be jumping up and down screaming if this were an Al Qaeda attack on an American family, yet when the situation is reversed, you have nothing but forgiveness for the perpetrators of the crime, and nothing but blame for the victim.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


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Friday, June 26, 2009 3:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
...we promote it by giving every illegal free healthcare and school...


If that's true, how can I become an illegal alien in my own country?

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Friday, June 26, 2009 3:57 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I know... right?

I was poor and lived on unemployment and lived in an unfinished basement with cats that pissed all over the place before. I even had to "remodel" the place by spending about a year and a half throwing stuff into a nearby company's dumpster a little at a time to make some room.

I still made too much money to qualify for any benefits. And since my parents (who hadn't seen me for 3 years and didn't collect tax breaks for me) made too much money, I couldn't get a FASFA government grant to go to college unless I got 3 letters proving my parents were bad people. One from a family member and two others from community leaders like Preists or Cops.

It was nothing like that.... I was just poor and on my own and wanted some help. Wrong skin color or nationality or sex or religion or sexuality for that, I guess...



The care is out there if you're desperate enough and it will be enough to ensure you'll live longer. I can't imagine you'd enjoy it though. Especiailly now that I'm making a decent buck for my education level, I have no desire to live for free in the shit that you need to live in to get it. My place smelled so bad that my friend that lived in his own parent's bedroom came over he said he's never coming over again unless the smell of cat piss was removed.

But just because "not much" is given to these people in the way of a standard of living (money for nothing, and your checks for free), it doesn't mean that it's not bankrupting communities everyday though considering how many millions of people are being supported on the backs of people who work in this country. And we just invite more in to help.

I don't have much to lose, but I see no need to lower my quality of living to that level to capitalize on the free money that we give to them.

Or should I say PRINT for them....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 26, 2009 4:30 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What YOU don't understand is that while you're saying that it's not our place to make that determination, and that you haven't made that determination, you just made that determination. YOU said, in your own words, that "this girl was born a slave to a culture and 'religeon' that is wrong." *I* didn't say it, you did. Talk about your faulty reasoning...

Their culture isn't wrong because I said so...its just wrong. Its wrong to deny freedom to your people, men and women, and to force them to live in a culture of brutal violence and fear.

Those are not American value judgements. Thats human value judgements. If I agreed with them...they'd still be wrong. If the United States engages in the same practices, then the United States would be wrong. It'd be wrong if they were strong and we were week.

Their's is a simple 'might makes right society...but it our founding principal of equality and justice is that 'right makes right'.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, June 26, 2009 4:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey.... if I'm white and I smoke menthol cigrattes, I'm not represented.

Is that right?

http://www.newser.com/story/33315/menthol-debate-splits-black-caucus.h
tml?utm_source=ssp&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=story

"Why do so many Blacks smoke Menthol?"

"I don't know???"

"That is Correct!" ~Dave Cheppelle and some nerdy white dude contestant on the Chappelle Show



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 26, 2009 7:05 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:
Their culture isn't wrong because I said so...its just wrong. Its wrong to deny freedom to your people, men and women, and to force them to live in a culture of brutal violence and fear.

Those are not American value judgements. Thats human value judgements. If I agreed with them...they'd still be wrong. If the United States engages in the same practices, then the United States would be wrong.


Sounds like you're saying the U.S. is wrong. America does engage in those practices. May I point to Gitmo as evidence? There are people there who are charged with no crime, are facing no charges, and are being tortured (i.e., forced to live in a culture of brutal violence and fear) daily. If that's not an American value, why are Americans engaging in such behavior against any people, especially against some who may be completely innocent?

Don't tell me that my ship is coming in...
Time's running out the door you're running in.

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:51 PM

GRIPPER


If we weren't there'the Taliban would probably find some oTHER reason to maim and /or kill children-especially young girls....you know;GOOD reasons-like wanting to learn to read,work a job,mett someone OTHER than an arranged marriage,being a rape victim,consuming something NOT halal...going to a movie.
Before 2002,they made novel use of the soccar stadiums.
BTW,I KNOW that a lot of Muslims have NO desire to inflict this $hit on people so remember that I am referring to the Taliban&related Wahhabist kooks;as well as the thugs who work for the Mullacracy in Tehran.
For the record,and it MUST have already been posted;the pieces of unclean matter that mak eup the Taliban make it a point to either directly (soft target mentality)attack non-comabtants OR to remain in close proximity to innocents BECAUSE American and other coalition troops do nOT make it a pracice to let off Willy Pete on kids.

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:11 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Sounds like you're saying the U.S. is wrong. America does engage in those practices.
It's a government thing, Elvis.


The laughing Chrisisall

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