Blackwater: the scum also rises by deadlockvictim

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Blackwater: the scum also rises

POSTED BY: DEADLOCKVICTIM
UPDATED: Friday, August 7, 2009 07:39
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4520
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:32 AM

Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder
by JEREMY SCAHILL
August 4, 2009

A former Blackwater employee and an ex-US Marine who has worked as a security operative for the company have made a series of explosive allegations in sworn statements filed on August 3 in federal court in Virginia. The two men claim that the company's owner, Erik Prince, may have murdered or facilitated the murder of individuals who were cooperating with federal authorities investigating the company. The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahill

In their testimony, both men also allege that Blackwater was smuggling weapons into Iraq. One of the men alleges that Prince turned a profit by transporting "illegal" or "unlawful" weapons into the country on Prince's private planes. They also charge that Prince and other Blackwater executives destroyed incriminating videos, emails and other documents and have intentionally deceived the US State Department and other federal agencies. The identities of the two individuals were sealed out of concerns for their safety.

this guy has been on the case for a while...
Jeremy Scahill is the author of the bestselling Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army, published by Nation Books. He is an award-winning investigative journalist and correspondent for the national radio and TV program Democracy Now!

is anybody really surprised by this?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA

No.

Just wait till what they did during Katrina comes out.

We knew this, but the hard part was never having any damn PROOF, cause they cover their tracks too damn well and witnesses have this problem of disappearing.

They're murderous scum, but unfortunately they're COMPETENT murderous scum, and that makes them doubly dangerous.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 2:51 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

seems they finally pissed off the wrong (right) people...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:34 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

It's a very chilling read. We just can't have a private army - it comes too close to completely removing the moral responsibility of using soldiers from our gov.
Weren't the Hessians a private army? How'd that work?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com Now available on your iPhone

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

From Wikipedia:

The term Hessian refers to eighteenth-century German regiments in service with the British Empire that fought against American colonists during the American Revolutionary War.

During the American Revolutionary War, Landgrave Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern Hesse) and other German leaders hired out thousands of conscripted subjects as auxiliaries to Great Britain to fight against the American revolutionaries. About 30,000 of these soldiers were sold into service. They were called Hessians, because 16,992 of the total 30,067 men came from Hesse-Kassel. Some were direct subjects of King George III; he ruled them as the Elector of Hanover. Other soldiers were sent by Count William of Hesse-Hanau; Duke Charles I of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel; Prince Frederick of Waldeck; Margrave Karl Alexander of Ansbach-Bayreuth; and Prince Frederick Augustus of Anhalt-Zerbst.

The troops were not mercenaries in the modern sense of military professionals who voluntarily hire out their own services for money. As in most armies of the eighteenth century, the men were mainly conscripts, debtors, or the victims of impressment; some were also petty criminals. Pay was low; some soldiers apparently received nothing but their daily food. The officer corps usually consisted of career officers who had served in earlier European wars. The revenues realized from the men's service went back to the German royalty. Nevertheless, some Hessian units were respected for their discipline and excellent military skills.

Hessians comprised approximately one-quarter of the British forces in the Revolution. They included jäger, hussars, three artillery companies, and four battalions of grenadiers. Most of the infantry were chasseurs (sharpshooters), musketeers, and fusiliers. They were armed mainly with smoothbore muskets, while the Hessian artillery used 3-pounder cannon. Initially the average regiment was made up of 500–600 men. Later in the war, the regiments had only 300–400 men.

About 18,000 Hessian troops arrived in the Thirteen Colonies in 1776, with more coming in later. They first landed at Staten Island on August 15, 1776, and their first engagement was in the Battle of Long Island. The Hessians fought in almost every battle, although after 1777 they were mainly used as garrison troops. An assortment of Hessians fought in the battles and campaigns in the southern states during 1778–80 (including Guilford Courthouse), and two regiments fought at the Siege of Yorktown in 1781.

The use of Hessian troops by the British further rankled American sentiment, and pushed more loyalists to be in favor of the revolution. Using foreign troops to put down the rebellion was seen as insulting, as it treated British subjects no differently than non-British subjects; pro-British Tories felt that the British nature of Americans should have entitled them to be above mercenary resistance.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:25 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Heh - I read the same wiki article before posting.

I think while different than a private army like Blackwater (fighting slaves practically) their use had the same effect of distancing the British gov from feeling directly responsible or impacted by the loss of Hessian lives. "Support the Troops" lawn signs are everywhere in the US and the voting populace clearly has a great deal of respect for men and women in the armed services - so what better for a President than being able to send in and risk these shadow troops instead? When one of them dies no one can write about more military casualties.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:34 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

My main concern with mercenaries is that it removes the pretense of a political process for corporate control of the government.

If we become reliant on mercenary armies, and they grow to become a sizeable percentage of our military power...

then the government will essentially be at the mercy of Militech Incorporated.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

In addition, Blackwater personnel are being indicted for the Nisour Square massacre in Iraq- the largest (blatant) civilian massacre in the war. www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/95599/doj_preparing_to_charge_six_blackwat
er_guards_in_nisour_square_massacre/

Unfortunately, the Obama administration has not cut ties with Blackwater (now called Xe), and is expanding its contracts in Afghanistan.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

My main concern with mercenaries is that it removes the pretense of a political process for corporate control of the government.

If we become reliant on mercenary armies, and they grow to become a sizeable percentage of our military power...

then the government will essentially be at the mercy of Militech Incorporated.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

You say that as if it weren't already being done...

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"My main concern with mercenaries is that it removes the pretense of a political process for corporate control of the government."

My impression is that that is intentional. The US has been specifically exporting and fostering this process around the globe for decades (see the book 'Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire'). It's not surprising that it has come home.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 8:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Mercs themselves aren't necessarily cretins, mind you - Jerry Pournelle writes an excellent piece regarding this matter here, which is also the preface to the original Hammers Slammers novel.
http://jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/virtue.html

That said, Blackwater is complete scum, mostly cause of the manner and method of it's founding, as a deniable strongarm for certain political elements within our little totalitarian oligarchy we pretend is a constitutional republic - and because of their heavy connections with the mil-industrial-intel goons, if they can't dodge the bullet for this one, Erik is gonna be a good little soldier like Oliver North and fall on his sword for his masters.

One could hope this fails, and certain of those connections, and the operations carried out because of them, hinted at elsewhere here and there, should come to light - but I don't hold out much hope given just how high the stakes are.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 8:16 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Operation Northwoods and Operation Mongoose used lots of contractors...

Plausible deniability is very valuable to the ruling elite. But they settle for implausible denial.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 2:20 PM

DREAMTROVE

Prince is cartoonishly evil and reality stole him from LEXX... but that doesn't make the accusations all true. He's guilty of smuggling weapons, stealing cash, having no oversight over the actions of his madmen that he hired without a real psych eval, and violating the geneva conventions.

But some of these lunatics are now testifying against him that he's on a crusade against islam, linked to the knights templar and part of an illuminati that wants to create chaos, kill people for fun, and destroy. This is insane, which isn't surprising, since the witnesses are insane.

Prince may be evil, but he's an evil businessman, gun for hire, and he knows very well that the next customer might be a muslim, and he wouldn't cut himself short.

My guess? Someone wants him gone because they're afraid mercenary organizations will replace armies.

I've actually heard a conspiracy that goes one step further that I'm not ready to accept yet, but is more plausible than the testimony: That the non-credible witnesses were supported in their attacks on Prince by Prince to discredit his opposition. Plausible, but I'd have to gnaw that one over.

Personally, I expected more sanity from the nation.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:20 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Personally, I expected more sanity from the nation.

Whatever on Earth would give you such an expectation? Have you not been paying attention for the last several years?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Dreamtrove

Unfortunately that theory falls flat in lights of eyewitness accounts from reliable people that have been in my hands (and mentioned here, by me, repeatedly) since long before anyone elses investigation.

Erik *IS* a nutter, he's far and away long gone between the ears, and despite this, he was and is supported quite heavily by both political and intelligence folk within our own government, and a couple military folk too.

But again, like Ollie North, he's gonna play the good soldier and fall on his sword to protect them, which means even if all of Blackwater gets what it rightly deserves, those folk will still be there, lurking and waiting for another chance to have their way.

I really, REALLY hope someone comes up with enough hard evidence not just to hang Erik out to dry, but also to expose some of those connections, and it supremely sucks to not even be able to elaborate at this time.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:36 PM

DREAMTROVE

Frem

I've been following the story for a long time as well, I don't think it's a question of whether or not Prince is a raving lunatic, but what kind of lunatic he is.

Anyone who is inserting Knights Templar is also a loon, but that's no surprise, he hired a lot of loons. The Bush govt. wanted to outsource the army. Democrats don't, because they want a draft.

I don't think mercenary armies roaming the globe is a good idea, and I don't think that Prince is sane, he has a self image as at least king of the underworld.

There's an added element of doubt here: I'm always suspicious of lefty land's trying to christianize their enemies, just like christians masonizing their enemies, and nazis jewifying their enemies. The fact is I'm not a supporter of the new christians or the new zionism, but I can see where biases disembark from the natural course of reality.

If I were to peg Prince as anyone other than the LEXX Prince, it might be Boba Fett. He has this vision where he is the world's army, I can see that, and he plays by his own rules. I am not buying that he's on a crusade to wipe out Islam. Maybe he hired some nuts with this idea.

Bush had Carbone, who said such things, and the Bush wasn't elected by the people by appointed by God.

But Prince hired Pinochet's guys, so he had a low sanity standard. I think he had a focus on ability over logic. IIRC He did have the decency to buy body armor

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:41 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Have you not been paying attention for the last several years?

You know, just the way you phrase that, when I look at the text it reminds me of Johners little bit in Alien: Resurrection.

Johner: "Haven't you been payin' attention today?"
Course, it ain't the same without the visual, but I couldn't find a clip, alas.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I think the issue rests with the difference between Amoral, and Immoral, conduct.

Executive Outcomes, and the snidely-named "Executive" division of Eagle/A-1 Services Ltd. were Amoral, they didn't care whether you were in the right or not, whether it was technically legal or not, you gave them the mission, you gave em the money - you got their best.

You want THESE people dead, THOSE people left alone, and THIS area secured ?
OK.
Note there's gonna be some collaterals, but we'll keep it down as best we can.

They were efficient, they were merciless, but they were PROFESSIONAL, rape, looting and senseless murder for no particular reason were beneath them.

And then you got Wackenhut/Group4 Securicorps, Dyncorp, and Blackwater.
What poisons them, and causes them to slide down further and further into naught more than a group of unruly thugs, a slide which the former two have about hit bottom on, and Blackwater is quickly descending, is the addition of ideology to the mix, you see.

And in all three cases named above, that ideology was political, brought into it via affiliation with american intelligence agencies, it polluted both Wackenhut and Dyncorp from the very beginning, and it was in part what destroyed the Pinkertons as well, although their operations were mostly domestic, crushing those pesky union folks who dared stand up to the corporate elite - and Pinkertons lives on in a manner of speaking, since in the end they were absorbed by and in fact became one of those alphabet agencies, the USDOJ.
Look it up if you don't believe me, start with the Anti-Pinkerton Act of of 1893.

Blackwater is just one more fallen to the lure of easy government money, who sold out professionalism for ideology and to be completely honest they were poisoned from the beginning by the religious influence of Erik and his little band of cronies, which was part and parcel of the whole PNAC/NeoCon/Clean Break neo-feudo-fascist cabal, most of whom in fact don't have any strong religious beliefs but gave lip service due to the need for a fearful external enemy to use as an excuse - but Erik is a "true believer" and that filtered down through the ranks until it become de-facto policy.

Blackwater might be COMPETENT, but they're not PROFESSIONAL.

-Frem

Disclaimer: I worked for Eagle/A-1 in a Security/Tactical role, which is why I know so much about these things, and have such high standards - although admittedly that was a damned long time ago.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:37 PM

DREAMTROVE

Huh, and I'm aware their a bunch of hacks, I'm not sure I buy that this is a religious mission, and not just a poorly run death squad.

I suspect he hires madmen because that's what it takes, and then they behave like madmen, but I don't know the guy.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well the details of it might not yet be clear, other than that Erik himself is a "true believer" - but once you start mixing ideology, political or religious, into your doctrine, it's all downhill from there.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 3:17 AM

CHRISISALL

I wonder what his sin is... ?

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 4:43 AM

DREAMTROVE

Chris, didn't you see Lexx?

one of these men is an actor, the other is the real thing, but they are the same character.

...You may have encountered him in other works of fiction

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 4:52 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
one of these men is an actor, the other is the real thing, but they are the same character.

...You may have encountered him in other works of fiction

Are they both gay?

Why don't the locals send in their badda$$ SWAT team to arrest Blackwater?

That would be a good show...

BTW Blackwater is named for Blackwater Heroin.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 5:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"In the late 1990s, Erik Prince spent part of his inherited wealth to purchase about 6,000 acres (24 km2) of the Great Dismal Swamp, a vast swamp on the North Carolina/Virginia border, now mostly a National Wildlife Refuge. Here he created his state-of-the-art private training facility, and his contracting company—Blackwater—is named for the peat-colored water of the swamp.[17]"

Hello Piratenews,

This is what I was able to discover regarding the old name of the company (which is no longer called Blackwater.)

As for anyone's sexual orientation, you seem to have an endless preoccupation with that subject. I humbly recommend that you focus on things that are actually relevant.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 6:55 AM

DREAMTROVE

Blackwater is a longstanding word in the english language, and predecessor languages, that long predates words such as "Iraq," "Gay," or "Lexx."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_river

Prince is clear not gay, anyway, because he has, aside from a wife or two, Zev Bellringer of B3k:

Well, at least some of the time:

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 7, 2009 7:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Dream, you always come up wit the good pix...

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE