Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Then of course there's all the murders by guns, many committed in the throes of emotional rage. These episodes often escalate into murder to a large degree because a gun is handy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You should look into how Ted Nugent, that great patriot, stayed out of the Vietnam War. It's pretty enlightening.

I never had any respect for him in the first place, but that horseshit "Damn Yankees" supergroup that he was in pretty much sealed the deal as far as him being a proven douchbag. If he were any bigger a douche, he'd be heir to the Massengil empire.

Mike

---

Quote:

---

TED NUGENT insists he has paid his dues for avoiding the draft to fight in Vietnam - he spent "a couple of weeks ready to rock" with a giant machine gun in Afghanistan two years ago (04). The Republican rocker feels awful about avoiding the army in the late 1960s and early 1970s, but he believes he has more than made up for it. He says, "Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes. "I wish I'd understood how important America's fight against our enemies was. "But did I go to Fallujah two years ago? Damn right I did. "And was I in Afghanistan, manning a 50-calibre machine gun in a Chinook, ready to rock? Yes. "Was I there for years? No, a couple of weeks. But I am not a coward."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RIPWash:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Then of course there's all the murders by guns, many committed in the throes of emotional rage. These episodes often escalate into murder because a gun is handy.

---

Same could be said of a kitchen knife. Or a lead pipe. Or a wrench. Or a candlestick for that matter.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Jong,

Which is why its important to understand the difference between "Thou shalt not Murder" and "Thou shalt not Kill".

Is it wrong, for example, to kill a pedophile that you caught molesting your child? Or to defend yourself, and your family from a home invader?

---

Quote:

---

At least he has admitted his wrong-doing, feels guilt over it and has tried to make up for it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
... rather than where he just went over to play "Wango Tango" for both of his fans over there

---

Quote:

---

At 18, he was called up to serve in Vietnam. "In 1977 you gave an interview to High Times [the cannabis user's journal of record] where you claimed you defecated in your clothes to avoid the draft."

("I got 30 days' notice of the physical," Nugent told them. "I ceased cleansing my body. Two weeks before the test I stopped eating food with nutritional value. A week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. My pants got crusted up.")

"I never *** my pants to get out of the draft," says Nugent, good-naturedly.

"You also told them you took crystal meth [methamphetamine, the highly destabilising drug sometimes described as poor man's crack] before the medical - as a result of which, and I quote: 'I got this big juicy 4F.'"

"Unbelievable. Meth," he replies, in a tone of deep sarcasm. "Yes, that's my drug of choice. You've got to realise that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up. I never did crystal meth. And I never pooped my pants."

"But you did dodge the draft." "I had a 1Y [student deferment]. I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

"You said then that you wanted 'to teach the stupid bastards in the military a lesson'. I'd have thought you'd have loved the army. Guns. Travel. Danger." "Back then, I didn't even understand what World War II was."

"So basically," - I admit that I have, unaccountably, started to speak Nugent - "you didn't want to get your Michigan ass blown off in Vietnam." "Correct. I did not want to get my ass blown off in Vietnam."

"I know you do a lot of charity work for wounded veterans. Has it occurred to you that someone else may have died in Saigon because you didn't go?"

"Absolutely."

Nugent's name, as I am sure he's aware, appears, along with those of Cheney, Bush and many of their fellow Republicans, on a website called chickenhawks.com. It lists those who have evaded or abbreviated their own military service then, later in life, developed an appetite for war and machismo, either personally or by proxy.

"So has this made you..." "Certainly. Because I failed to serve in Vietnam, I feel an obligation now, to do everything I can to support those defending our freedom. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."

"You missed your calling."

"I wish I'd understood how important America's fight against our enemies was. But did I go to Fallujah two years ago? Damn right I did. And was I in Afghanistan, manning a 50-calibre machine gun in a Chinook - ready to rock? Yes. Was I there for years? No. A couple of weeks. But I am not a coward."

---

Quote:

---

Same could be said of a kitchen knife. Or a lead pipe. Or a wrench. Or a candlestick for that matter

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:

Quote:

---

Same could be said of a kitchen knife. Or a lead pipe. Or a wrench. Or a candlestick for that matter

---

Fallacious argument. Even assuming it's not, you can't off a dozen people in a few minutes with any of those.

Somewhere in there Nugent said "I'm crazy". That I'll go along with.

The proliferation of guns in our society sickens me. The ease of acquiring them and "carry" laws as well.

All you need is one idiot in a bar with a gun, or one idiot getting into an argument ANYWHERE, and a gun IS more dangerous than pipe or knife. Might be observers would tackle someone with one of those...who's gonna tackle a guy with a gun?

Bah.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Fallacious argument. Even assuming it's not, you can't off a dozen people in a few minutes with any of those.

Somewhere in there Nugent said "I'm crazy". That I'll go along with.

The proliferation of guns in our society sickens me. The ease of acquiring them and "carry" laws as well.

All you need is one idiot in a bar with a gun, or one idiot getting into an argument ANYWHERE, and a gun IS more dangerous than pipe or knife. Might be observers would tackle someone with one of those...who's gonna tackle a guy with a gun?

Bah."

Then there's me.

Some douchebag gets into an argument in a bar, decides that the best way to end it is to pull a gun, and shut the other idiot up permanently.

But.

I decide that I dont want blood in my bourbon that night, and put a gun to the drunken idiots head. Explain to him that maybe, this go around, he should sleep it off before pulling the trigger.

Light against dark.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RIPWash:


I disagree that's it's fallacious because those items CAN kill someone else in the heat of the moment which was the argument I was presented with.

---

Quote:

---

murders by guns, many committed in the throes of emotional rage. These episodes often escalate into murder to a large degree because a gun is handy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RIPWash:
All I can say is that from what I read, he claims to have made that all up and to have had a 1Y deferrment for school. Add to that, he does a lot of charity work and does whatever he can to support the military now.

More from the interview I posted above:

Quote:

---

At 18, he was called up to serve in Vietnam. "In 1977 you gave an interview to High Times [the cannabis user's journal of record] where you claimed you defecated in your clothes to avoid the draft."

("I got 30 days' notice of the physical," Nugent told them. "I ceased cleansing my body. Two weeks before the test I stopped eating food with nutritional value. A week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. My pants got crusted up.")

"I never *** my pants to get out of the draft," says Nugent, good-naturedly.

"You also told them you took crystal meth [methamphetamine, the highly destabilising drug sometimes described as poor man's crack] before the medical - as a result of which, and I quote: 'I got this big juicy 4F.'"

"Unbelievable. Meth," he replies, in a tone of deep sarcasm. "Yes, that's my drug of choice. You've got to realise that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up. I never did crystal meth. And I never pooped my pants."

"But you did dodge the draft." "I had a 1Y [student deferment]. I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

"You said then that you wanted 'to teach the stupid bastards in the military a lesson'. I'd have thought you'd have loved the army. Guns. Travel. Danger." "Back then, I didn't even understand what World War II was."

"So basically," - I admit that I have, unaccountably, started to speak Nugent - "you didn't want to get your Michigan ass blown off in Vietnam." "Correct. I did not want to get my ass blown off in Vietnam."

"I know you do a lot of charity work for wounded veterans. Has it occurred to you that someone else may have died in Saigon because you didn't go?"

"Absolutely."

Nugent's name, as I am sure he's aware, appears, along with those of Cheney, Bush and many of their fellow Republicans, on a website called chickenhawks.com. It lists those who have evaded or abbreviated their own military service then, later in life, developed an appetite for war and machismo, either personally or by proxy.

"So has this made you..." "Certainly. Because I failed to serve in Vietnam, I feel an obligation now, to do everything I can to support those defending our freedom. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."

"You missed your calling."

"I wish I'd understood how important America's fight against our enemies was. But did I go to Fallujah two years ago? Damn right I did. And was I in Afghanistan, manning a 50-calibre machine gun in a Chinook - ready to rock? Yes. Was I there for years? No. A couple of weeks. But I am not a coward."

---

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

---

Quote:

---

It's quite obvious that a person can not go into a school, for example, wielding a candlestick and pose any realistic threat to the student body.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:
Fallacious argument. Even assuming it's not, you can't off a dozen people in a few minutes with any of those.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:
Fallacious argument. Even assuming it's not, you can't off a dozen people in a few minutes with any of those.

---

How about a car, or a can of gasoline? plenty of examples of mass killing with either one of those. Timothy McVeigh killed a bunch of folks with fertilizer and diesel fuel.

I'd suggest that the whole anti-gun movement has been developed as a political tool, sort of like Prohibition was in the early 20th century, or the Drug War in the mid-20th.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Not gonna fault him for dodging a dumbass, counterproductive war that Lyndon B deliberately dragged out to kill off the "undesirables" we were sending to fight it, knowing it was all but lost well in advance.

That said, he's an asshole, a douchebag and a jerk.

Those things don't necessarily count against his opinions, or his right to hold em though.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I was going to say that a person with a candlestick could kill a room full of people, but someone beat me to it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RIPWash:
C - completely and totally preoccupied to the exclusion of everything else going on around them
D - brain dead

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

How to kill a room full of people with a candlestick:

Step 1) Light candles.

Step 2) Ignite drapes/fabric/flammable material of preference.

Step 3) Step Outside.

Step 4) Secure the exit.

Step 5) Listen as people die in horrified panic, trampling one another to exit the room while their flesh crisps.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

---