The Ten Worst Presidents, pick your own by Niki2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree; history has painted a picture that I think is questionable.

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Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Monday, September 21, 2009 11:13 AM

WHOZIT

How can they list William Harrison as one of the 10 worst if he was Prez only for 30 days? He didn't have a chance to suck. They sould replace him with that douchebag Carter.

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Monday, September 21, 2009 11:16 AM

BYTEMITE

I have a firmly established dislike of Mr. Fillmore, partially because of a certain unnameable syndicated newspaper comic and partially because two counties in Utah are named after the guy.

I suspect it was part of the effort to be recognized as a state instead of a territory, but it still kinda bugs me.

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Monday, September 21, 2009 11:36 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The reason Harrison was listed as one of the ten worst was given as because he wasn't Prez long enough to do anything--and I grant you that's not very fair.

As for Carter: He may have been ineffectual, but he was never a "douchebag"...that's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but it offends me. Carter is a good man who at least TRIED; there were numerous others who didn't even do that, who were corrupt, self-serving and other things far worse than being ineffectual; AND who did far worse to our country than Carter ever did!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Monday, September 21, 2009 12:28 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
How can they list William Harrison as one of the 10 worst if he was Prez only for 30 days? He didn't have a chance to suck. They sould replace him with that douchebag Carter.

Or that fucking worthless sack of shit Reagan, who had eight full years to suck, even though he was so out of his goddamned mind that he didn't even know what he was signing half the time.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Monday, September 21, 2009 3:44 PM

Well, when you consider most of the "Historians" who made those calls are also the dickheads who constantly propagandize and fictionalize our "history" to support their precious myths for reasons having nothing to do with the benefit of humanity (and are constantly hanging around Wiki screaming a fit when the cold hard realities of evidence cause their lies to be exposed) then that list makes a lot more sense, doesn't it now ?

Eisenhower does belong on that list, I ain't so sure about the others, not even Georgie, since he *did* almost immediately betray the revolution with the universally despised Whiskey tax, then proceeded to violate the Constitution by marching one States militia against the people of another, and all for a tax that was a sneaky way for a religious minority (temperance movement) to try and force their morality down the throat of an unwilling majority, which lead to the disaster of Prohibition and the "war on (some) drugs"...

You ask me, looks like The Federalist Society wrote up that list, and my opinion of THEM couldn't be printed in most media.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, September 21, 2009 3:49 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Or that fucking worthless sack of shit Reagan,

Go ahead, make my day.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Not a tad bit liberal slant here, is there?
1. Supposedly a top 10 list, listing 11. Duh.
2. Selects every single Whig President in the top 10? Bias, anybody?
3. Somehow does not include Carter, Clinton, or LBJ but stuffs in there WH Harrison, bedridden for his entire 30 days of Office? Slanted, are we?
4. Andrew Johnson, although another Democrat opposed to Civil Rights, was Impeached for a completely unrelated issue, the Impeachment and 14th Amendment are in no way connected.
5. Fillmore? Mallard notwithstanding, since Stephen Douglas and Daniel Webster and the entirety of Congress hashed out the Compromise for months, he should hardly be saddled with fault for signing what all those Democrats had worked for.

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:44 AM

Oh puh-leeze, sock puppet, ain't nobody buyin the stinkin heap of shit you're trying to shovel, and too fuckin cowardly to do under your own name.

That "ten top" list up there is a cock strokin fantasy by and for conservatards like you and it shows, especially what with that disgusting and monstrous tyrant "honest" abe up top there, suprised they didn't tack on a slobberingly sychophantic cumguzzling of John Adams and his "heroic" Alien and Sedition acts, which despite being firmly struck down and savaged like they deserved, have been reconstituted and regurgitated upon us by the former administration, then digested and shat upon us by this one...

And punks like you lappin it up when your "side" is in charge and wailing like the damned when it ain't, without regard to the abuses themselves, and without the damned sense to realize you quisling milquetoast enablers will be among the first tossed in the wheels of the machine once your ignorant, clueless ass is no longer useful as a foil to common sense and decency.

The amoral cowardice of you and your ilk is not forgotten, especially when you slink back here under an obvious and previously outed sock puppet cause you don't even have enough of a pair to stand behind your own words - just show up with a quick bit of propagandistic vandalism and then sleaze back under whatever rock you hide under while waiting for the reeking stench of your affliations to wear off and memories to fade.

Well, be prepared to wait a LONG time, sock puppet.

-F

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Not a tad bit liberal slant here, is there?
1. Supposedly a top 10 list, listing 11. Duh.
2. Selects every single Whig President in the top 10? Bias, anybody?

So if I were to make a top-10 list of despots, and included people like Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, etc., then I'd be biased against "leftist" state leaders?

Has it occurred to you that maybe the Whig party was just a really, really shitty one? I mean, if they were so good, where are they now?

Quote:

3. Somehow does not include Carter, Clinton, or LBJ but stuffs in there WH Harrison, bedridden for his entire 30 days of Office? Slanted, are we?

Well, being bedridden for your entire 30 days in office, then dying, isn't exactly what you'd call a roaring success, is it?

And ya know, I *could* make an argument that that list has a horribly conservative slant. After all, Reagan isn't on it. Neither is Lincoln.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:14 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Not a tad bit liberal slant here, is there?

Reality has a liberal slant.

Heads should roll

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:04 AM

TDBROWN

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Eisenhower does belong on that list, I ain't so sure about the others, not even Georgie, since he *did* almost immediately betray the revolution with the universally despised Whiskey tax, then proceeded to violate the Constitution by marching one States militia against the people of another, and all for a tax that was a sneaky way for a religious minority (temperance movement) to try and force their morality down the throat of an unwilling majority, which lead to the disaster of Prohibition and the "war on (some) drugs"...

George Washington was the largest producer of whiskey in the state of Virginia, and paid his whiskey tax as an example for the rest of the country. There really wasn't a politically established Temperance Movement in the US.... yet. I'm not sure where you got your "facts", but you might want to know them before you post. Not chiding you, just correcting an error. Peace.

As for that "best" President list, IMO J F Kennedy is on there because of his assassination. His poll ratings were Not good, and many thought him a mediocre president at best... until he died. LBJ's Social advances bring him close to being on the list, but his handling of Vietnam swings him close to the "Bad" list. Reagan had good advisors. Otherwise, he'd be in the middle of the pack as far as presidents go. JMHO.

And Lincoln ensured that we have a UNITED States of America, 'though he bent and reshaped the Constitution to do it. That's why he earns the #1 spot.

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Verrrry interesting. Some pretty heated feelings here...huh! Personally, I just think the lists are mildly interesting and nothing more--given how much one changed in two years, how fallible humans are, how slanted one way or another historians are, and time. But I see others feel very strongly that "their" people were left off or included in "worst".

Just found it interesting. I agree about Reagan, Mike--which of course those favoring the right will consider blasphemy. Obama saying during the election that Reagan and the Repubs had had "ideas" during that time while the dems had none, is right on for me. It got him in so much shit, when what he was trying to say was they weren't always GOOD ideas...and the right has worshipped him ever since. I abhor the things he did to our country, but hey, Nan and her astrologist kept him going, eh wot?

I'm not sure Lincoln was the hero we make him out to be, since the Civil War wasn't really about "slavery" and we've made HIM a hero too, but I'd have him in the top 10 for managing to hold the country together. I'd put Washingon first because anybody with the balls to lead this country's revolution and then become the first President without screwing it up completely HAS to be someone special!

Kennedy is a hero same reason hippies and Woodstock are remembered the way they are. Remember "Camelot" and the "last period of American innocense", etc.? They were purty, the Kennedy's; we fell in love with them and they'll always be heroic to some. I'd forgive LBJ for Vietnam and, much as I absolutely hate to (hated the man), give him credit for his social advances, too, and some of the things he did environmentally.

Jewel, don't you think it's kind of self-defeating to list as reasons for your belief the list is slanted the fact that, because of a tie, there are 11 names on there rather than 10? Uh...

Wow, Frem; you really got it bad for Jewel, don'tcha? That was pretty vicious, personally I don't think it was necessary, but hey, whatever floats your boat...politics shore do rile some up, don' it?

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Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Let's hear it for the Whig Party!

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:30 AM

TDBrown

Quote:
George Washington was the largest producer of whiskey in the state of Virginia, and paid his whiskey tax as an example for the rest of the country. There really wasn't a politically established Temperance Movement in the US.... yet. I'm not sure where you got your "facts", but you might want to know them before you post. Not chiding you, just correcting an error.

Perhaps studying actual history instead of the fictionalised and heavily propagandised version taught in public schools might do you some good, no offense.

While Georgie could afford the taxes, because of the way the tax was structured, the poorer and smaller producers got hit the hardest, and they were bitterly pissed cause this action showed the true colors of the supposed "revolution" which was in part sparked off by similar taxing schemes by the crown - it got people to askin if they'd really changed anything, and what's worse is that Hamilton was pretty damned blatant about it having purposes other than revenue, and that kind of social control was in contravention of everything the Constitution was based upon.

There's reasons I despise the Federalists so wholeheartedly, and damned good ones.

The "temperance" movement as a POLITICAL entity came later and seperately, but remember these were folks of a primarily Puritan belief, and held a very dim view of alcohol, particularly the Baptist stronghold of Rhode Island, and this did in fact affect the policies set down by men of those faiths - something having so much potential for abuse that most of the founding fathers, Jefferson in particular, felt the need for specific checks against it, which never did seem to prevent them from using end-runs, legal dodges, and judicial re-interpretation to get their way, and the rules be damned, since most religious folk both of the time and currently consider the rules of their belief superceding the laws of man.

Of course, forcing ones religious beliefs down the throat of others under color of law being a bad idea ain't never stopped no one from trying - from prohibition to blue laws, brick sandwiches and the "war on (some) drugs", it ain't never brought us nothin but misery and suffering, thanks to most religions having within them some excuse or justification for trying to force it upon others - this being my primary reason for such passionate antagonism against them.

Anyhows, it wasn't established politically cause at the time it didn't much have to be as it was part and parcel of the religious beliefs of most politically active folk at the time, only later when the process of forcing religion OUT of government was well under way, did that become necessary.

Of course, given my ancestral line hearkens back to the appalachian hills and various packs of restive, still building hillbillies who ain't never put much stock in government, nor cared much for it's revenooers - specially since that same government never did fail to come in on the side of the goddamned robber barons of the coal industry, often enough militarily(1)....

One can imagine I got perhaps a particularly axe-grinding bent about such things, and thus an intricate knowledge of the relative history involving them.

Quote:
And Lincoln ensured that we have a UNITED States of America, 'though he bent and reshaped the Constitution to do it. That's why he earns the #1 spot.

You say that like it's a good thing - lemme present to you a pair of images so you understand where *I* stand on it.

BOSTON MASSACRE.

NEW YORK DRAFT RIOTS.

Please excuse me if I find flaw in a man supposedly against Slavery, forcing his own people, unwilling, at gunpoint to fight their own countrymen who resisted his tyranny.

Lincoln didn't preserve the Union, he destroyed it, for it's entire basis was upon consent of the governed, and with that firmly and completely rebuked, it becomes in the end "rule of the gun" - obey or die.

-Frem
(1) - Up to and including having the US Army perform military airstrikes on them, as happened in the battle of blair mountain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:32 AM

Niki

Quote:
Wow, Frem; you really got it bad for Jewel, don'tcha? That was pretty vicious, personally I don't think it was necessary, but hey, whatever floats your boat...politics shore do rile some up, don' it?

Believe me, Niki, that was positively polite in comparison to the bitter vitriol, unrelenting hatred and vile filth the person behind that sock puppet has spewed here in the past, and then amplified with this particular sock puppet as an echo chamber - something I've neither forgiven, nor forgotten, just as I said I wouldn't.

Just keepin my word to the guy that he would receive this treatment from me every time he tried that stuff again.

-F

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sorry, I don't buy it. What exactly does it achieve? I'm sure it does nothing to the person involved, and only takes away from whatever you post, as your post becomes so filled with vitriol that whatever point(s) you may be trying to make are lost.

Lowers you to their level, obviously excites you enough to lash out, and loses respect which has been built up for you from others. Whatever the past may hold, the way you respond makes you look worse than whoever you're directing it toward. I seem to remember someone saying when I first arrived that they'd prefer to make up their own minds about me, that what my detractors had posted gave more weight to my version than theirs. NOT comparing that to this situation, but it does make you look less reasonable than the other person. Seems to me what they post is ugly enough that we can judge them for themselves.

If everyone carries around old grudges and keeps grinding them in debates/discussions between all, those of us who come in with no preconceptions sure get a negative picture of this place and its inhabitants...

Personally, I'd rather come to respect those worthy of it here and disagree with or dismiss the others on my own.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:18 AM

Ok, ok, I'm using keyword phrasing and word association triggers to deliberately send them into mental meltdown by exploiting known psychological weakpoints in order to hinder their ability to think coherently enough to shovel their known and admitted agenda here.

And doin it under cover of simply being nasty to them.

Caught red-handed, and I'll cop to it, sure.

You're a right smart lady, I'll give ya that, and coming from me that's high praise indeed.

ETA: Just for the funny!

-Frem

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:23 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The five best presidents, according to the historians, were

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. George Washington
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt
4. Theodore Roosevelt
5. and Harry Truman
6. John F. Kennedy
7. Thomas Jefferson
8. Dwight Eisenhower
9. Woodrow Wilson
10. Ronald Reagan.

Really, the five best?

I wonder which one was best at math...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:44 AM

Quote:

If everyone carries around old grudges and keeps grinding them in debates/discussions ...

Actually, I harbor that same particular grudge against "He Who Shall Not Be Named". (And that reference is just for you, Niki, because I know you'll get it).

I carry that grudge around, and keep grinding it to a finely-honed edge of a very handy broadsword. :)

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:45 AM