Rendition Connections. by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Rendition Connections.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:09
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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM

A most interesting bit came across my desk earlier this week.

Lithuania hosted secret CIA prisons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8426028.stm

One of the places identified as a rendition site matched up with a former hellcamp black site and so I chose to cross-ref the few known rendition sites with known off books and black sites used by former hellcamp operators, and several of them do match up - enough to make one wonder if perhaps someone within our agency responsible has political, financial, or official connections with the original operators.

Given the financial support of Synanon from a certain government program (Monarch/Bluebird) and further government financial support of The Seed/Straight Inc - it is entirely likely this is the case, and would explain much, not the least of which was whether or not there was an existing framework for this kind of detention and torture, given that the tactics used in extraordinary rendition are all but identical to the methods used by the above, and would also explain the financial support to develop and test this concept upon a fraction of the population no one would especially care about.

While not directly responsible, I am of the opinion that elements of our own intel folk did indeed sit back and observe while feeding occasional financial and political support through Sembler, Kay, Lichfield and others, in hopes of eventually exploiting that infrastructure and information in the fashion they obviously have.

If so, this means that my initial impression of these places as the keystone building block for our own "Secret Police" was entirely correct, and is most definitely cause for alarm cause I think we all know that this program will not remain applied only to "enemy combatants" and the unpeople that are children - sooner or later, it's gonna get applied to other social undesirables, history is very clear on that point.

That being the case, despite the collapse of Pathway and it's affiliates, the existing infrastructure still remains potentially dangerous if it can be pressed into use for such things, which means we gotta go back and stomp it completely flat like we did in Jamaica, but at least we have the edge in mostly knowing where these places are, both official sites and unofficial.

All I can offer at the moment, but if we can establish a positive link here, and I think we can*, it opens a whole new door with which to press both the hellcamps, and the whole idea of rendition, not the least of which because it opens the Government itself to direct lawsuit on behalf of many camp survivors.

-Frem
*PS: For tactical reasons, imma play a little close to the vest here, initially.

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA

A little background info which may be helpful.

Maia's original article.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/synanon/synanon7.html

Badly outdated flowchart showing the basic connections.
http://www.thestraights.com/flowchart.htm

-F

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:52 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Good thing we're on the side of good, otherwise the War on Terror against the evil doers of this world would be great big farce. Hang on...

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 9:06 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

What about Delta and Northwest?

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:30 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Nah, they use front companies now, in fact that was kinda what DynCorp was before they decided to become a Blackwater prototype.

Thing is, it's all about the aircraft, barring certain conditions which I'll not detail here, you are NOT gettin in someone elses airspace without at the very least an identification number on the tail, you see ?

And EVERYTHING goes somewhere, especially if it's on unencrypted channels, thus leading to even a site as open as Wiki knowing which aircraft they are, and other less open collectives knowing more about the details.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_aircraft

You of all people should know that, John, given that we managed to connect a couple of them drug traffic aircraft to this before most folk even heard of extraordinary rendition, and I *gave* you some of those tail numbers to investigate right here on this site back then when N987SA crashed and the resultant fiasco not only revealed the rendition scheme, but also that the planes were not returning empty - which you did not follow up on, to your shame.

It doesn't take a bloody genius to connect tail numbers and flight plans once you know the registration history of the aircraft in question, especially as almost all of em are either Gulfstream or 737 airframes to begin with - the Lear is used by the interrogators themselves, cause you can't expect the american gestapo to fly commercial, now can you - TSA might have a little fit about their equipment, especially since most of the screeners are too damn stupid and arrogant to know when NOT to throw a hissy, yanno ?

And when you have a map of the flight plans, and a map of the hellcamps, even a monkey could put two and two together at that point, honestly, and unlike our military command (who can't seem to understand letting go of the banana is the only way to get their hand out of the jar..) I consider myself to be at least somewhat smarter than a primate, thanks.

The commercial carriers ain't got jack damn all to do with this, but if you wanna dig into the front companies, by all means, be my guest, make yourself useful for once.

-F

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:30 AM

DREAMTROVE

Sorry for being late to the party, but I haven't gotten nearly this far.

Okay, here's where I got to: we have prison sites in eastern europe, which are likely, given what I know of eastern europe, and the soviets, to be the very same facilities that were used by the Nazis, then took over by the soviets to do the same damn thing, some of which had been used in WWI and before...

Now entire big Gitmo debate. I saw this initially as a "play the good cop, while burying the real activities" and that we would just move operations to more secret locations: Gitmo is a liability not because we torture people there, but because everyone can see us torture people there, and has a list of inmates, people can sue, etc.

Of course, most people go with tracing the fate those specific detainees who are in Gitmo, but the Govt. isn't that dumb, it would rather just let everyone go at Gitmo than expose its international torture prison scheme.

I'm sorry if this is pitifully uninformed, but I'm not sure I get the connection or the point. Still trying:

Okay, tell me if I'm right on the point of hell camps:

My own experience in psychiatric was that this was a giant experimentation program based on psychological and psychotropic medical experiments for the purpose of learning how to manipulate people, create zombies, etc, and we the inmates, though charged with no crime, and I'll freely admit "dumb assed volunteers for checking into a hospital for psychiatric care in the first place" were essentially cattle to our overlords. What happened to us was of no importance whatsoever, and no one had any interest in curing any conditions we might actually have, of even in testing us to see if there was anything wrong with us. They were only interested in experimenting on us with drugs, shock treatments, etc.

Okay, now drawing from that experience, and tell me if I'm way off base, i'm going to guess the same thing is more or less true here:

Hell camps are places for experimentation, and the kids in them are cattle. There is no desire to cure anyone of anything, only to find out about how to manipulate humans. Am I even close?

Finally, I'm going to make a leap to war on terror suspects and say the same thing: We have no actual interest in any direct information we gain, which is why prisoners are really chosen pretty much at random, and are not high profile al qaeda operative. They tend to be random kids. I got this from someone I know who is an interogator, and Iraqi reports seem to confirm this. So just going with that for the moment:

The purpose of torturing muslims would be to discover how to manipulate muslims based on religious and cultural reasons, and humans in general, with psychological, physical and chemical abuse.

If all of the above is remotely close, then is what you're proposing here the existance of an international network similar to that used by the Nazis, Soviets and Maoists, in which humans are shuffled as cattle, to disappear into a system where they can then be used in this sort of "study"?

Or am I missing something major?

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Hell camps are places for experimentation, and the kids in them are cattle. There is no desire to cure anyone of anything, only to find out about how to manipulate humans. Am I even close?

Only by a little - initially that was the goal, but as they figured out the how it became less of a priority than the end result of getting them to OBEY.
(where do you think crap like Ritalin actually gets field tested ?)

Back in the 60's to early 80's that was indeed the case, but around the mid 80's to early 90's it wasn't an issue anymore because the intel goons already knew as much as they were gonna learn from observing, and their second chance schools which funnelled likely candidates for service into the military or intelligence community backfired rather spectacularly when Nicaruaga blew up in their faces like that, so they cut their losses and went on.

Believe me, our goons already know all they need to about how to make people do things, all it is currently is a venue to train and desensitise their pet torturers while extracting convenient "confessions" via waterboarding, sleep deprivation, isolation, etc - there's no NEED for further experimentation because while everyone was so damn busy denying such places even existed, they learned all they ever needed to about that kind of breaking and manipulation, which also culminated in a refit of military training when it became clear that troops would have "issues" with firing on or rounding up americans...

Not a lot of em mind you, not even then, but even one in twenty is plenty enough to screw that plan all to hell when they're opposed enough to empty a magazine into their fellow troops over it - and the refit of training apparently took quite well, as witnessed in Katrina at the hand of the 82nd Airborne, cause NOT ONE of them refused the order or even bitched about it, did they ?

These places ain't bein used to learn how to break and manipulate people, they already know how to do that, they're being used to train and desensitise the people they're gonna use to DO it, many of whom are themselves former victims of the hellcamps who chose to emulate their abusers to get the satisfaction and protection of being on the giving end of that transaction - these people do not spring from a vaccuum, mind you - and the conditions of a hellcamp are tailor made for the express production of exactly the kind of merry little sociopaths that the powers that be find so bloody useful.

I mean, where DO folks think they get these mentally warped monsters, that do their bidding so effectively, put an ad in the paper ?

While I mean to benefit the potential victims, a secondary objective is depriving these bastards of their shock troops.

-F

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:09 PM

DREAMTROVE

Frem,

Got it. Remember when I said I personally knew the guy who designed the Milgram experiment? He has since come up with a plan for innoculating people against programming by pre-programming them. I know, it won't solve the one in twenty Lt. Calley situation, but it's a start. I should really tap his brain on this one, as he knows quite a bit about how this situation works.

I take it then that the victims are selected randomly. Ultimately I suppose this brutality would be forced on any dissenters by the new shock troops, which is essentially what happens in China.

I have to say that there was an element of that in psychiatric when I was there: The doctors never administered the treatments, they ordered the staff to do it. I assumed at the time that this was CYA, and perhaps to some extent it was, but upon reflection, they had an abnormal level of obedience from their staff, who did not even view the inmates as human. I'm sure this is something you've seen a lot more of than I have.

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