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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
The Mindbenders and how they do it.
Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:56 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:14 PM
BYTEMITE
Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:46 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:00 PM
Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:02 PM
Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:27 PM
LITTLEBIRD
Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:43 PM
Monday, January 18, 2010 1:06 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 1:21 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 6:42 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 6:51 AM
Quote:Recruitment for that continued well into the 1980's, as one of the second chance school systems I was dumped off on was a feeder system to provide likely candidates for the program via funnelling them into military service, and it was overseen by a "dual-hatter" (usually military/Intel, but in this case education/intel) by the name of Bill Haroth, that prick - and yes, the school system in question was also called Phoenix. I had thought them defunct, but apparently they're back in operation.
Quote:So, with the application of more money, The Seed became Straight, Inc. which collapsed in 1993 due to the same backlash of lawsuits and criminal charges, and rose again as WWASPS, which with the sinking of Pathway Family Centers in Fed 2009, is all but doomed - but it's apparently a game of whack a mole, since CEDU has risen in it's place.
Monday, January 18, 2010 6:56 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:05 AM
HKCAVALIER
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:09 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:17 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:20 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:21 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:23 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:30 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Young people still carry an awful lot of "old messages"; people don't have to be psychopathic to be pushed into behaving as they did...they can be "authortarian followers" (remember that?), young people are more susceptible to both peer pressure and desire to please their professors; there can be myriad reasons they gave in to the temptation and acted the way they did.
Monday, January 18, 2010 8:51 AM
RUE
I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!
Monday, January 18, 2010 8:59 AM
Quote:And let me repeat my thesis that the US a heavily propagandized population.
Monday, January 18, 2010 9:12 AM
Quote:Wait, doesn't this mean that the funding support structure such as WWASP is intact somehow? Or has someone else now stepped in with this same interest?
Quote:I guess part of what I'm saying is: If we understand it and know it's out there, isn't that all that's important? Not who or how it started, who funded it, etc., etc., just that we need to be aware? I guess I'm confused...
Quote:The error is in claiming that EVERYONE in an abusive system becomes contributors to the abusive system, and that it's human nature for this to happen. Which is what my dumbass professor was trying to push. No, likely the guard role people who took things to such a horrific level already had some sadistic or psychopathic tendencies before the experiment started. It's not difficult, not in this society, and it's also not hard to coach people to act a certain way. The setting was specifically engineered to bring out such tendencies, as such the experiment had a bias from the get go and was EXTREMELY unethical. They knew the outcome before it had even happened. Do you see why this is a prop up for totalitarianism? Try applying this idea to modern society (also an unnatural setting). There is a big big problem with this idea, and that's why I argue against it and fight it so hard. All science has an agenda, and psychology often has the most DISTURBING ones.
Quote:I found out later that, among the medical community, p-dos are on the very BOTTOM rung, which explains a lot about how they behave and what they think. Just me, rambling.
Quote:That's Frem's point, that's why he brought it up. In a number of liberal arts colleges, THIS is the interpretation of human nature that is being pushed.
Monday, January 18, 2010 9:25 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 9:27 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 9:30 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 9:47 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 10:14 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 10:36 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 10:54 AM
Monday, January 18, 2010 11:59 AM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by rue: So, apparently it works, but the eye movements are not necessarily a key feature. STILL - I am VERY curious. SO --- explain away when you have the time !
Monday, January 18, 2010 12:21 PM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Monday, January 18, 2010 2:21 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by rue: Frem My opinion: if a mind can think of an action, no matter how evil or perverse, then someone has already done it somewhere. And probably several someones, or even many someones working together - and even funded by the government. Sad, but true. Not to make any grand statements on human nature, but humans have been human for a long time, starting, I think, at the acquisition of abstract language. And there is a lot of already existing information about us humans in fairy tales, history, and news stories. For example, 'The Emperor's New Clothes' (Asch) or Nazi Germany (Milgram, which the experiment purportedly was to examine). Even the Synanon programs are a lot like the public Chinese criticism\ self-confession sessions instituted in every village during the Great Leap Forward. Regarding this - "Legal changes after 9/11 allowed the FBI and other intelligence agencies to move aggressively to access the vast oceans of information aggregated by commercial vendors. The data titans, ChoicePoint, Acxiom and LexisNexis, offer not only access to data -- everything from ordinary public records to personal spending habits -- but also increasingly sell analytic technologies to the feds to help them make sense of the vast amount of information out there. ... a 2004 GAO report identified 199 data-mining efforts in 52 federal agencies, and that's just what's known publicly." - it's something I've been harping on since the USPATRIOT Act was passed. Will they get any useful intelligence out of it ? Hell no. 'You can see anything, if you use the right filters'. What they NEED is a data training set - they need to have a robust set of activities logs of many known terrorists in order to search for similar patterns (fuzzy logic) among a large set of data of regular people. What they WILL get is lots of access to the records of innocent people - access that could always be used to construe ill intent, if they so desired. My feeling though is - anything that can be done will be done. Not an endorsement, far from it, but a statement of sad fact. And let me repeat my thesis that the US a heavily propagandized population. We are told over and over to ignore our experiences and those of our families and neighbors in favor of ideology and someone else's concepts: everyone lives in a wonderful house like on TV, happiness is buying the latest stuff like all those happy good looking people in the commercials, capitalism is nature's invention and works to an ultimate good, if you don't have what everyone else has like on TV it's your fault ... To a large extent we are already trussed up like Thanksgiving turkeys, ready to be fed to the corporations and government. *************************************************************** Silence is consent.
Monday, January 18, 2010 3:24 PM
Monday, January 18, 2010 4:25 PM
Monday, January 18, 2010 5:45 PM
Monday, January 18, 2010 6:16 PM
Monday, January 18, 2010 6:34 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Oh, Frem didn't introduce psychology, I don't think he argued we should throw it all out. Me, on the other hand, I'm a little less certain on that point. This whole thing gets into philosophy with me, about whether you're changing who a person is or repressing an otherwise positive expression of their genetics that would be functionally useful in certain situations so they fit better into mainstream society. Whether it is even useful to try to understand behaviour and mental processes in a species that varies so drastically, even by culture, and especially by upbringing. How do we know that our methods of trying to help people aren't hurting them? Do we really know anything about people who have somehow become or were born a danger to themselves and others? Enough to help them find functionality and no longer be said danger? Mostly it seems to me we use it for diagnose to put people away for long, long times, which screws them up further. Or, hey, pills, which can also screw them up. To say I have misgivings is an understatement, especially considering my own treatment at the hands of doctors, both medical and psychological, who I could damn well tell couldn't have cared less about my welfare and had basically written me off as incurable and/or undiagnosable. Hearing what I've heard now from others, I'm glad I got out when I did.
Monday, January 18, 2010 7:42 PM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:23 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:20 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:12 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:26 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:41 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:33 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:41 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:57 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:38 AM
Quote: I suspect it might have to do more primitive and unproven line of research related to eye movement as expressed processing
Quote: she had a comfortable calm non-emotive demeanor and voice. She did not push her patients. She allowed them to recall traumatic events in a calm, contemplative way at a leisurely pace. At the time I wondered if SHE was the key to the therapy.
Quote: incremental effect of eye movements was noted when EMDR was compared with the same procedure without them
Quote: it does seem that a lot of therapists are far worse off than their patients, doesn't it
Quote: Because of the possible addition of PTED and several other proposed disorders to the upcoming DSM-V, some psychiatrists warn that the new edition runs the risk of medicalizing the normal range of human behaviors.
Quote: I think being pissed off about it is a pretty damned natural response!
Quote: by demanding that a victim forgive their abuser
Quote: if the forgiveness aspect is pushed in opposition to the patients feelings, can result in a learned helplessness which leads them to seek out unhealthy relationships where the abuse will be repeated.
Quote: The principle of the Working Box Theory is to build a mental box between you and the rest of the worlds influences and pressures, to cut that pressure OFF, allowing you to wrestle your inner demons without distraction or complication, finding a calm, introspective state that allows a person to get full use of "home field advantage" in the territory of their own mind.
Quote: a MAJOR problem with a lot of theraputic methods is that push to hurry it up, especially by paid personnel who are "on the clock"... I don't even understand that, I mean, if your patient has a major breakthrough or breakdown in the last
Quote: I don't believe you can throw out all research into human behaviour or ascribe conspiracy theory motives around it just because it gets used for non ethical purposes. Even before we knew through research about human behaviour/psychology - people have used what they have observed to get something they want. That has gone on through the ages.
Quote: The problem is now we have lots of people who actually can't look after themselves wandering around off their meds, living under bridges and not getting the help they need because locking people away is no longer considered humane.
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:40 AM
Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:16 AM
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