HUZZAH! This is what I thought might happen, and gives me hope that the American people won't vote "viscerally" but THINK about the actual issues, not t..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Wedge issues divide politicians from independents

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, August 23, 2010 08:41
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1098
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, August 20, 2010 3:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


HUZZAH! This is what I thought might happen, and gives me hope that the American people won't vote "viscerally" but THINK about the actual issues, not the bullshit.
Quote:

The current ruckus over building an Islamic center and mosque near ground zero, calls to change the 14th Amendment and other so-called "wedge" issues are roiling up each party's base, but they're turning off independents, analysts say.

"This is party politics as usual with respect to all of these wedge issues," said Jacqueline Salit, president of independentvoting.org, a national strategy and organizing center for independents. "I think there's more and more of a steady recognition that these kind of wedge issues and political manipulation, sensationalism and opportunism is exactly what is degrading the American political process and our democracy."

Salit, who is also the executive editor of The Neo-Independent magazine, said that people are having a hard time understanding what's happening with the economy because of partisanship.

"I think people can't tell what's going on because the political environment is so polluted by partisanship," she said. "The parties are trying to change the subject from things they think can inflame voters on and win elections on. How does that help the country? That hurts the country. And that's what independents are deeply concerned about."

Independents are increasingly concerned by both parties, and it's evident in recent polls.

Bringing up divisive issues that distract from fixing the country's economic woes will only create cracks in the bridge between the two major parties and independents, said Omar H. Ali, an independent voting analyst and professor at the University of North Carolina-Greensboro.

"Right now, there is a movement for nonpartisan reform in America and independents are leading that movement," Ali said. "In some ways, this issue with the mosque is the latest attempt of trying to gain partisan interest against the Democrats. ... But Democrats do the same thing to the Republicans [on other issues.]"

Independents, he said, are the watchdogs and "conscience of America" when it comes to issues like the economy. The blame game over who caused the economic recession only highlights what is wrong in American politics today, Ali said.

Now, if the Dems could only start talking about the ISSUES, and let the Repubs rant on about Obama being a Muslim, etc., we'd make some headway. Not that I expect it...sigh...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:34 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
HUZZAH! This is what I thought might happen, and gives me hope that the American people won't vote "viscerally" but THINK about the actual issues, not the bullshit.
Quote:

The current ruckus over building an Islamic center and mosque near ground zero, calls to change the 14th Amendment and other so-called "wedge" issues are roiling up each party's base, but they're turning off independents, analysts say.

"This is party politics as usual with respect to all of these wedge issues," said Jacqueline Salit, president of independentvoting.org, a national strategy and organizing center for independents. "I think there's more and more of a steady recognition that these kind of wedge issues and political manipulation, sensationalism and opportunism is exactly what is degrading the American political process and our democracy."

Salit, who is also the executive editor of The Neo-Independent magazine, said that people are having a hard time understanding what's happening with the economy because of partisanship.

"I think people can't tell what's going on because the political environment is so polluted by partisanship," she said. "The parties are trying to change the subject from things they think can inflame voters on and win elections on. How does that help the country? That hurts the country. And that's what independents are deeply concerned about."

Independents are increasingly concerned by both parties, and it's evident in recent polls.

Bringing up divisive issues that distract from fixing the country's economic woes will only create cracks in the bridge between the two major parties and independents, said Omar H. Ali, an independent voting analyst and professor at the University of North Carolina-Greensboro.

"Right now, there is a movement for nonpartisan reform in America and independents are leading that movement," Ali said. "In some ways, this issue with the mosque is the latest attempt of trying to gain partisan interest against the Democrats. ... But Democrats do the same thing to the Republicans [on other issues.]"

Independents, he said, are the watchdogs and "conscience of America" when it comes to issues like the economy. The blame game over who caused the economic recession only highlights what is wrong in American politics today, Ali said.

Now, if the Dems could only start talking about the ISSUES, and let the Repubs rant on about Obama being a Muslim, etc., we'd make some headway. Not that I expect it...sigh...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off








Not a chance. Independents may not care about the mosque, however if the dems talk about issues the independents will continue to flow over to the GOP. It is precisely that which has given the GOP the majority of independent support in polls...the real issues. From illegal immigration, healthcare, economy, stimulus, etc..You are delusional if you think independents are going to go Dem in November. That you cannot see the sinking ship that this administration has become is startling. Do you realize that the majority of Americans are against EVERYTHING the dems have done and against the shady way they have done it? You really need to get your news from other sources than Maddow, Stewart, and the gay shipping clerk. You are SO out of touch with the rest of America and don't even know it. It's crazy to me that you can live with your head up your ass and not even be aware that you have shit on your face.

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Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:57 AM

BYTEMITE


Going Dem in November kind of defeats the object of being independent. My only response to Niki here is

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Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Going Dem in November kind of defeats the object of being independent. My only response to Niki here is




Why? BOTH parties try to woo the "independent" voters. I don't think it's banging your head against a wall to vote for the best candidate in the race, even if that candidate DOESN'T have an "I" next to their party affiliation. It almost sounds like you're suggesting that Independents should stick to the party line, which would be very much not independent of them to do.

Are there any big races in November in which there are independent candidates running?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:38 PM

BYTEMITE


Have I EVER sounded particularly supportive of Democrats OR Republicans? I resent your implication.

And yes, if most of what "sounds good" that's coming out of the mouths of the bought and paid for "better candidates" is a lot of horseshit to get them elected, then it IS better to vote for someone with an "I" by their name, even if they think they're the reincarnation of fucking Genghis Khan.

As for if there are Independent candidates in any "big races," I wouldn't know. I've decided it's pointless to pay attention to national elections. I only pay attention to local elections now.

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Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Whoa - if that's what you got from my words, you misread the "implication". Probably because there was none.

I pointed out that BOTH parties try to woo "independent" voters. By and large, there really aren't very many truly "independent" voters in this country. Wulfie, for example, calls himself an independent, but has outright stated proudly that he would NEVER vote for any "lib/prog" - which by implication means that he's voting Republican every single time, unless some further-right party manages to get a candidate on the ticket.

I asked if independents SHOULDN'T be wooed by the two big parties. Should the parties just refuse to acknowledge them? In Firefly terms, don't you appreciate a little shout-out now and again, even if you know it doesn't bring your favorite show back? It still feels good to know that someone out there recognizes you love the show, right?

So to throw a little love the independent voters' way really can't hurt either party, can it? What's the worst case scenario, they DON'T vote for your candidate? In that case, you've lost nothing, because they were already there in not voting for you.

As with most political beliefs, people lean different ways on "independent" beliefs. Some are "right-leaning independents", who don't support the Republicans because they're not far enough to the right in their policies and ideologies. But they usually end up voting for them as the least bad choice. And there are left-leaning indies who don't really support Democrats because they aren't liberal ENOUGH, but generally end up pulling the "D" lever in the elections.

I in no way impugned your judgment or your participation, or lack thereof. I in no way tried to imply that you lean one way or the other - and since you don't vote, it doesn't really matter whether you lean right or left, does it?

I merely pointed out that both parties want the so-called independent vote, and the first party to not go after them, loses.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:27 PM

BYTEMITE


EDIT: Bleh. I forgot again.

Kwicko, I'll send you my response in PM form. I told Niki that I'd try to stop hassling people about partisanism. It's a pet peeve of mine, but pointing it out at every opportunity just ends up being annoying and derailing threads.

I'm going to add a line in my sig to remind myself. I need to nip that reaction in the bud, it just makes things unnecessarily hostile around here.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:50 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
EDIT: Bleh. I forgot again.

Kwicko, I'll send you my response in PM form. I told Niki that I'd try to stop hassling people about partisanism. It's a pet peeve of mine, but pointing it out at every opportunity just ends up being annoying and derailing threads.

I'm going to add a line in my sig to remind myself. I need to nip that reaction in the bud, it just makes things unnecessarily hostile around here.




What do you mean you told niki2 you would stop? Who the fuck is she? And what kind a faggot maggot are you? Kwicko harps on Bush in every thread, as does niki. If partisanism is your pet peeve you do it a disservice by going along with these idiots despite what you really want to say. How is bringing partisan-ism into a thread titled "Wedge issues divide politicians from independence" derailing? You are a gutless coward. Independents everywhere should throw shit on you for even attempting to be of like mind. You are forever cockByter to me. Shame on you. You come off as a whining little appeaser, some clown with no friends who will put his own self interest on hold to be included. Grow a pair you little cunt.....Man, that shit is unbelievable. I have seen some lip service on this fucking board , but that is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.


"I'll PM my response". What the fuck is that? Don't take this shit so fucking SERIOUS cockbyter. My god it's a fucking political thread on a board dedicated to a failed TV show. We are not saving mankind here, say what the fuck you want to say and move along. Holy shit.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Kwicko, I'll send you my response in PM form. I told Niki that I'd try to stop hassling people about partisanism
I got THIS far into the thread, and note that Byte is promoting a partisanism of her own. Maybe it will be cleared up in later threads.


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Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, I guess this IS the latest thread!

Byte, would you vote for a candidate who voted against the Iraq war, the so-called Patriot Act, and the bailout???

Because if the answer is "yes", you would most likely be voting for a Dem, not Repub.

Not to say that Dems as a group reliably vote your interests. They DON'T. Roughly 65% deserve to be sent packing. But that compares to the roughly 88% Repubs who deserve to be sent packing. I responded to a thread earlier that talked about babies and bathwater. I think you tossed the baby out somewhere.

If you're in a district that allows you to vote for Ron Paul, by all means vote for Ron Paul. But if you're in a district with a Dem who represents your interests, vote for them. And if such is not possible, then don't vote "Independent" unless that candidate clearly matches your views. "Peace and Freedom" might be better.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

What do you mean you told niki2 you would stop? Who the fuck is she? And what kind a faggot maggot are you? Kwicko harps on Bush in every thread, as does niki. If partisanism is your pet peeve you do it a disservice by going along with these idiots despite what you really want to say. How is bringing partisan-ism into a thread titled "Wedge issues divide politicians from independence" derailing? You are a gutless coward. Independents everywhere should throw shit on you for even attempting to be of like mind. You are forever cockByter to me. Shame on you. You come off as a whining little appeaser, some clown with no friends who will put his own self interest on hold to be included. Grow a pair you little cunt.....Man, that shit is unbelievable. I have seen some lip service on this fucking board , but that is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.


"I'll PM my response". What the fuck is that? Don't take this shit so fucking SERIOUS cockbyter. My god it's a fucking political thread on a board dedicated to a failed TV show. We are not saving mankind here, say what the fuck you want to say and move along. Holy shit.



The kind of faggotmonger cockbiter who got tired of repeating myself over and over again like a moron parrot.

Not take it so seriously? Yeah, that's the reason why. Every time I got into this with Niki she was all like, "Oh, look at this mean Byte turning on me despite the fact that she chased off the people harrassing me when I first showed up," and Kwicko was all like, "how dare you be mean to Niki," and then Frem jumped in with his "there is a damsel in trouble! Bad Byte!" cavalier thing. And then the point I was trying to make got completely lost because everyone wanted to make everything so goddamn personal.

So I took a chill pill, decided for myself that my effort was pointless, and happened to tell Niki such at the time. I've got better things to do than rehash the same old ground over and over again. Since then, I don't talk about this subject anymore, because everything that follows after I bring it up as people try to prove they're REALLY independent just gives me a concussion from head-desking so much.

Of course, you already know all of this, because you've been lurking for like the past eight months, hiding because you got your feelings hurt. Well, you're about to see it again. Enjoy the show.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:59 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


What do you do if you're an independent (unaffiliated in NC) and you're stuck firmly in the middle?

I'm a fiscally conservative, socially progressive, there's some things that only government can do but they horribly mess up the rest, indy?

I find that in this polarizing political system that there are few candidates of either party I can support because most are either too conservative or too liberal. And I've gotten to the point that even though I'm a news junkie and I love to know what's going on with the world that I'm beginning to ignore both political parties' bleating.

I feel like the old song; "clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle with you."

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/








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Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with Sig. I'm an Independent as well, and I WOULD vote for a Republican candidate if one ever came along who was closest to what I believe is best for the country. That will probably never happen, because one wouldn't win their primary, but if one ever shows up, I'll vote for them. I voted Republican in the past.

As to posting this, it was merely to say that the Republicans have been crowing that they're going to get all the Independent vote, and it's nice to see the Independents seem to be thinking more for themselves than those with party affiliations are.

As to not voting, I'll never do it. One is always better than the other, one is always closer to my beliefs. I can't do anything about the fact that we are a two-party system; maybe we'll get lucky someday and that will change. I'd probably have voted for Ron Paul; maybe another like he will come along and people will be sick enough of what we've got to vote for them, I dunno. But I will participate in elections.

That's all I was trying to say; that Independents are as scared by the fringer Tea Party Republicans as they are by the Dems, so they'll make up their mind which is the lesser of two evils, not all just vote Republican, as the Republicans have been convinced they will. It's good to know, for me, because I think a Republican-dominated legislater is FAR worse for the country than a Democrat-dominated one. That's all.

We need a new party to get enough support to become a power; won't happen in my lifetime, so in the meantime, I'll continue voting for the lesser of two evils.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:04 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
We need a new party to get enough support to become a power; won't happen in my lifetime, so in the meantime, I'll continue voting for the lesser of two evils.




Ppht. Of course it won't happen if you never DO something about it.

You and Sig are just perpetuating the cycle, both parties really pursuing the exact same agenda. "I'm independent, but I always vote the exact same party because the other one is always more evil!" Yeah, no, that's just what your PARTY is telling you. Your party is JUST AS BAD as the party you think is so damn awful.

You really want to get into this with me? Again?

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:06 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Not to say that Dems as a group reliably vote your interests. They DON'T. Roughly 65% deserve to be sent packing. But that compares to the roughly 88% Repubs who deserve to be sent packing. I responded to a thread earlier that talked about babies and bathwater. I think you tossed the baby out somewhere.


We're talking some horrific mutant cannibal baby from Eraserhead or something here. Good riddance to both baby and bathwater. Parties increase incidence of corruption, because they have too much influence in the political process. They need to go.

I don't vote either Democrat or Republican, because they're a bunch of liars, and their promises mean nothing. So no, I am not proposing another kind of partisanism here, because saying people should vote for independent candidates is a far cry from saying "don't vote independent! vote democrat/republican." Tell me, what specific party did I say people should vote for? I said independent and I meant independent. Only way to kill the parties is to support people who aren't supported by either (and, just as important, not propped up by bribery).

Quote:

Byte, would you vote for a candidate who voted against the Iraq war, the so-called Patriot Act, and the bailout???


Bull. The party LINES all supported the first two, Democrat or Republican. There was split on the bail-out, mostly because it ultimately was going to happen anyways. (Government and Business not taking money from each other? Perish the thought!) The few candidates that voted against them for cred points with their properly paranoid local constituency don't really count.

If a candidate is involved with the corrupt party system, they are indirectly or directly supporting the corrupt party system, and most likely this is entirely reciprocated. Cow-towing ensues. More and more, I'm finding that even people like Ron Paul and his teat-sucking son have sold out. Even if they stand by their principles (Ron Paul does, Rand Paul doesn't seem to even HAVE principles), they become little more than a joke, insignificant and without a chance of ever getting popular support.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

The few candidates that voted against them for cred points with their properly paranoid local constituency don't really count.


Bull. There were good people who voted against those things DESPITE the party lines and the prevailing polls at the time, and they risked their political careers to do what they believed was right. If you don't respect them and their records on the issues, why should anyone show your beloved "independents" the same respect? After all, I can just as easily claim that the only independents who voted your way did it for cred points with their paranoid local constituency, so they don't really count, right?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:58 AM

KANEMAN


Byte nice to hear you may get your balls back. However, I was a bit confounded about me hiding with hurt feelings? I don't have any feelings. I never hide. It is impossible for me to lurk. Carry on girl.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:01 AM

BYTEMITE


Find me some of your party candidates who voted against party lines who didn't also take a shit ton of money from special interests.

Independents generally aren't funded by special interests, because the general consensus is they don't have a chance of winning. Self-defeating prophecy and all that.

You can't paint me as equally partisan and equally supportive of the status quo when the status quo is the party system and I oppose the party system. I refuse to participate.

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don’t want to “get into” anything with you, Byte. I’m expressing what I believe; you’re expressing what you believe. I think we’re a lot closer than you see. I abhor the current system as much as you, but I believe doing SOMETHING is better than doing NOTHING. I look at what a party DOES in office to decide how I feel about them. I am displeased enough with the actions of the Democratic Party enough that I re-registered Independent, thus adding one more to the number of same. Maybe when we get big enough, we’ll be able to get power. Our numbers are growing steadily; we need our own “Tea Party”, just not as hateful.

But that hasn’t happened yet. All I can do is add myself to the numbers of “Independents”. I have been Republican, Democrat, and “agnostic” in the past, remember. I was Republican as a child, because my parents were. As I grew and learned, I became an “agnostic” and ignored politics. As I matured further, I became a Democrat because yes, they DID advertise themselves as what they are not, but they BEHAVE closer to that in which I believe. The last year of the Bush Presidency, I re-registered Independent. The reason I did it, aside from it reflecting how I feel and what I think, is that it is one more number to the ranks of “official” independents.

If you refuse to participate in the process, then you can have little or no effect on it except to complain. If you think bringing the government down will produce something better, then I believe you are mistaken.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, politicians who voted against their party:

McCain: Too many times to list – http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/votes/agai
nst-party
/

Obama: Ditto - http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/agai
nst-party
/

According to http://innovation.cq.com/multimedia/cqvotestudies08 and their 2008 voting scores:

House:

Democrats voted with their party: couple of 88%s, mostly 90%s, one 100% (Robert Andrews, NJ)

Republicans voted with their party: To my surprise, there is a 25% (‘course he wasn’t there more than 78% of the time), four 60%, twelve 70%, too many 80 and 90% to count, and one 100% (Paul Broun, GA)

To my surprise, there are more of them than Dems who voted against their party more often (whatever happened to “herding cats” guys?)

So there you have it. If you want specific House members, you have to go to the link. But to say NO Dem votes against their party is just too easy to disprove.

Senate:

In the Senate, Democrats have two Senators who voted 65% of the time, two 70%s, twelve in the 80%, the rest in the 90%s.

Republicans: Snowe’s in the 30%, Collins in the 40%s, Gordon Smith 50%s, three in the 60%, six in the 70%s, six in the 80%, twenty-seven in the 90%s and four 100%s

Democrats: Bigh and Landreau in the 60s, of course, two 70%s, twelve80%s, thirty-three in the 90%. No 100%

So the a few Republicans voted against their party lower than Dems, but Dems only voted against their party one more than Repubs, and four Repubs voted 100%

You see? It’s pretty equal for the most part, with the Repubs being somewhat more often against party lines. To say “Find me some of your party candidates who voted against party lines” is in my opinion disingenuous. As to special interests, ALL politicians take money from special interests, surely you know that. I would have to search hard to find who takes a “shit load”, but it’s the process, unfortunately. If we ever got election reform, it would be a blessing of great magnitude.

Again, if we try to find out the FACTS and educate ourselves, we benefit from it and hopefully make fewer generalizations.

I don't believe anyone accused you of supporting the status quo. I think what Mike meant is that you are "partisan" to no parties at all.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:13 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I don’t want to “get into” anything with you, Byte. I’m expressing what I believe; you’re expressing what you believe. I think we’re a lot closer than you see. I abhor the current system as much as you, but I believe doing SOMETHING is better than doing NOTHING. I look at what a party DOES in office to decide how I feel about them. I am displeased enough with the actions of the Democratic Party enough that I re-registered Independent, thus adding one more to the number of same. Maybe when we get big enough, we’ll be able to get power. Our numbers are growing steadily; we need our own “Tea Party”, just not as hateful.

But that hasn’t happened yet. All I can do is add myself to the numbers of “Independents”. I have been Republican, Democrat, and “agnostic” in the past, remember. I was Republican as a child, because my parents were. As I grew and learned, I became an “agnostic” and ignored politics. As I matured further, I became a Democrat because yes, they DID advertise themselves as what they are not, but they BEHAVE closer to that in which I believe. The last year of the Bush Presidency, I re-registered Independent. The reason I did it, aside from it reflecting how I feel and what I think, is that it is one more number to the ranks of “official” independents.

If you refuse to participate in the process, then you can have little or no effect on it except to complain. If you think bringing the government down will produce something better, then I believe you are mistaken.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off







Mother hen, You are the best. "I'm expressing what I believe:, but when Byte does it you badger him/her and make him feel bad. You are a joke...

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I make Byte feel bad? I badger her? Don't you think that's just a bit ironic, considering what you post to me?

Mind, it doesn't make me feel bad, except for you.

Byte, am I badgering you or making you feel bad? Please known that is not my intent. I am attempting to have a debate on an issue, nothing more.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, August 23, 2010 8:41 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I make Byte feel bad? I badger her? Don't you think that's just a bit ironic, considering what you post to me?

Mind, it doesn't make me feel bad, except for you.

Byte, am I badgering you or making you feel bad? Please known that is not my intent. I am attempting to have a debate on an issue, nothing more.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off






Sure you are trying to have a debate. I had know idea asking people to put their true beliefs on the back burner, making it more pleasant for you, is having a debate...See, mother hen you are a horrible person and you don't even know it...I do, see I leave most posters alone you I will never TOLERATE......

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