What is Love? by TheHappyTrader

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
My girlfriend got me wine and chocolate last year. I know it's a cliche, but it's an awesome one.

I got her candles and a backrub. She seemed to like that, too.

Love is comfort and warmth. Love is what makes me want to be better. Love is support at the end of a long day. I wouldn't want to live without it.

Facts are stubborn things.

Great idea! She totally loves candles! And wine can turn spaghetti from cheap mass food production to romantic in a 'lady and the tramp' sort of way.

Well, that was easier than I thought

a good card, a tin of chocolates and I think I'll be in good shape!

Also Lili, I think your definition of love is pretty much my language, if I am interpreting CTS's words correctly.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:25 PM

A distraction.

Seven billion people on this world, you'll never meet all of them. There isn't just one whose right for you, even if there were you'd never find them, most you can do is find a few, or several people locally you get along well enough to propagate a legacy with.

Have fun, anyway. I'm not innocent of spending money on the commercialized obligatory gesture of affection day myself, I'm partial to chomping down on a really nice fresh batch of those little conversation hearts. Not the dry hard ones, the soft ones that the store hasn't been trying to sell for a couple years.

Is Valentine's Day a state/federal holiday this year? That'd be nice, I could sleep in.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:42 PM

Fantasy.

Love at its best is the escape from the real physical world in which we are just biomechanical organisms crawling the earth into a faerie tale wonderland in which we are all magical creatures capable of impossible things.

At its worst, it's that sickening feeling in your stomach that pins you to a desire that you can't control which can even keep you wanting what you can't have. I used to give chocolates and stuff, but often these traditional symbols fell short, and sometimes backfired, and I've come to suspect it's because that's not what love is really about.

Give her the faerie tale.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:45 PM

Oh, and Happy, if you give her an actual Firefly class starship, I'm sure she'll be satisfied.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:50 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Byte, And I thought I was a synic :)

I have never been in love, I've never had a real boyfriend, going on a couple of dates doesn't count. So I can't speak to that sort of love.

However I have lots of experience with the other kinds, which I believe are just as important and just as necessary to being fulfilled and happy. I love very deeply, sometimes that hurts when the people you love don't love you as much. I know a lot about familial love and deep friendship love. It is my belief, not shared by most people in this country, that a best friend is just as important as a partner, they are very different of course, serve different purposes, the feelings are different. But they are both of equal importance. I think that the position of best friend is an honor and a special thing, I think it should be recognized as something of prestige. I have two best friends and I love them both. There is another friend of mine whom I don't see anymore but I loved her like a sister and I have let her know that when she is ready I'm still right here and won't ever stop caring about her.

I would love to experience romantic love someday, maybe I will find a guy I'm suited to be with ... and maybe I won't. I like to think I'm prepared to face either option.

Oh, and love languages can apply to any type of love, so even though I've never had someone to be in love with I know about my love language. Quality time all the way!

Best wishes for Valentine's Day Happy Trader, I think you'll do fine. And she'll like the speghetti, yum.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:55 PM

lol, can't say I disagree with ya there byte.

I don't really believe in the 'one perfect person' fairy tale either, more in 'possibilities at certain points in time.' I think 'love' is perfect but humans are far from it. If we're lucky (and into that sort of thing) we may find someone we can share our lives with. 'Course, even then (like anything worth having) ya gotta work at it. I'm far to young and inexperienced to really know what I'm talking about here, but it's my theory that folks can grow closer or farther apart and that marriages fail because the married folks quit working at their relationship.

My girlfriend on the other hand, seems to buy into the whole fantasy and has been hearing wedding bells in her ear since year 1

I don't like to think in 'permanents' right now cause I don't have a solid base to build my life on just yet, not long out of college and still needing parent's assistance with money and such.

The day after V day all the leftover candy sells for really cheap! There's always that to look forward too!

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:56 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Oh, and I forgot to mention. I don't think that your best friend and your partner should be the same person. They are two positions which should be occupied by different people. My best friend, since her husband came along, will no longer aknowledge me as her best friend, he's her best friend now, pa-lease. He already occupies one position of importance, husband, I don't think he should usurp the position of best friend too, that's just not fair. Oh well, she will occupy my best friend position, even if she is a pill and doesn't understand these things.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:56 PM

Aw, you guys are too nice, and I mean that. Good luck then. :)

I note that the wedding bells thing is common among women, the media encourages this. You'll be all right though.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 7:15 PM

V day? Yes. What do you get the girl who has everything? And I mean absolutely everything.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
A distraction.

Hopeless romantics all, I see...

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, I love that quote - in fact it was THE first thing that came to mind when I saw the thread title.

Me and mine have the weird tradition of giving weaponry as V-day gifts, this year I gave my ex a "home security device", after she freaked me out by calling me about a supposed prowler and causing me to prettymuch drag race the seven miles from here to there, only to find it was a concerned neighbor trying to tell her one of her cats got out.. *FACEPALM*.

So, I got her a barbie pink softball bat, cause I don't trust her with a gun - and because she thinks pink is evil and subjugative to a kinda flaky degree and it would annoy her, but is too useful to discard.

Most of my "gifts" of any kind have some kind of bite or snark to them.
As per romanticism, oddly for a hedonist, I barely comprehend the concept, so I wouldn't be one to ask.

LoL Byte, I thought I was the only one who actually LIKED those cursed things, but yanno, Necco Wafers are better, if ya don't mind em crunchy and don't think too hard about what they're made of.

And Riona - you are far more correct than you know, that is at the root of it, WHY my ex is the "ex" - we're very good best buddies, but no way in hell could we ever seem to make a relationship actually WORK, once we realized this and accepted it though, things smoothed out a lot.
Of course, string of crazy ex'es always brings the question of whether I attract the crazy ones in the first place, or does extended association with me drive folk bonkers ?
I vote for combination of those things.

Oh, and regarding gifts/ideas - it helps to consider women as cats, with thumbs and less fur - if you can figure out what the hell I mean by THAT, you'll go far in making them happy.

And yes, the post-holiday candy clearance is a happy thing - but you're gonna have to beat ME to it, bwahahahaha.
*hums theme from Despicable Me*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2011 9:06 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Everyone calling it V day makes me think of U day, :P :)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:46 AM

CANTTAKESKY

I don't know what to do with so many cynics here.

Vday will be the 21st anniversary for me and my hub. We got married within 5 months of meeting. We are both best friends and life partners. There is no one on this Earth who "gets" me better than him, and vice versa. We argue all the time, mostly for fun, but we've never had any serious argument (well, there was that one time when he went temporarily insane, but I knew he was so I didn't take it seriously). Shit happens in 21 years.

For our first anniversary, he surprised me with a trip across the country to San Francisco, where he had already made reservations in a restaurant called the Spinnaker (in Sausalito), which lies over the Bay. He timed it so I could watch the sun set over the water, cause I love sunsets. He's a romantic, that one.

I, however, am not. I appreciated it, but I was too distracted by my annoyance at having to cancel all my work appointments for several days because of the surprise. I think I killed the romantic in him.

In a long relationship, it is nice to learn each other's love language. His is acts of service, so I try to clean or fix something on Vday. Mine is physical touch, so he takes time to do extra cuddling and hugs.

No, I don't believe there is only one "right" person for anyone on this planet. But I believe the "right" person can simply be defined as someone who "gets" who you are and what you're "meant" to be, who is there through good times and bad, sickness and health, who is in every way your best friend for life. In other words, I think most the "right" person is simply your BFF that you have sex with. Flutters are nice too, but optional.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:47 AM

HERO

Love is never having to say your sorry (ie the opposite of marriage).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:03 AM

Quote:
Oh, and regarding gifts/ideas - it helps to consider women as cats, with thumbs and less fur - if you can figure out what the hell I mean by THAT, you'll go far in making them happy.

Clearly, the lady pictured just wants her tummy rubbed. But not too much, or she'll bite your hand and start kicking with her hind claws.

Quote:
LoL Byte, I thought I was the only one who actually LIKED those cursed things

They're PURE SUGAR! :o Om nom nom.

Some people, if you can believe it, don't even realize how to tell the difference between the old stale hearts the store has had in storage to put out again and the GOOD STUFF from the factory... I have an eye for it.

The fresh conversation hearts will:
1) be brighter looking
2) have no dust residue on the bag

Quote:
And yes, the post-holiday candy clearance is a happy thing - but you're gonna have to beat ME to it, bwahahahaha.

They also put out the easter candy about that time. I fill up on conversation hearts BEFORE Valentines so while you're grabbing those I'll be going RIGHT for the Cadbury mini-eggs...

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:06 AM

KANEMAN

Love is just a trick the mind plays. Sure, there is a biological reason for the emotion. But, really. Who wants to stay with the same person forever? That is akin to eating pizza every day for life(or brussel sprouts if your "other" is an ugly fuck). Seriously, how many of you guys want to wake up with an old, dried snatch, saggy titted crank when you are 70? And ladies, how many of you look forward to the day your guy has to hold up his aging saggy balls while taking a shit..fearing his balls will dangle in the toilet water?

My grandfather said it best. "kaneman, the torture of marriage is...I still know what good-looking is, I remember when your grandmother was gorgous. I still feel 15 on the inside, yet I wake up in bed with an old lady...what is worse is she still wants to touch me!...Life is cruel."

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:27 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

And STILL you don't believe in genetics? Because being a nasty piece of work clearly runs in your family.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:43 AM

EDIT: still trying not to blacken the thread so much.

But frankly, people do get tired of each other a lot. Numerous short relationships are much more common than a single long-term relationship.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:19 AM

However, I can offer an ALTERNATIVE alternative viewpoint on relationships and reproduction:

EDIT: Hmm, hotlink was working earlier. Copy past the address into the URL.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:07 AM

LOL

I've always thought they were like dogs, but that's because I come into contact with dogs more and dogs love me. Even those twitchy little things at the g/f's mom's house, who typically hate new people, took an instant liking to me. Like I was some sort of D&D 3.5 ranger who didn't use Charisma as a dump stat.

Anyway, based off of my interactions with dogs I've concluded girls:

1.) Want to be chased
2.) Want a good meal
3.) Want their bellies rubbed

Cats like me too, but I suspect that is because they are evil and know they can set off my allergies twice as bad dogs do. But how can you look at a cat and tell them go away? It's just not possible!

Concerning best friends and girlfriends/spouse etc... my girlfriend is my best friend, but I also have other best friends. I can't really rank them, they are just different.

And byte, don't worry about thread darkness, this is RWED, where a religion of faith, hope and love is the greatest threat to our lives and freedoms and every disaster, domestic or abroad, was somehow cause by the shadow organization that is secretly our leadership. There's no shortage of folks looking to make any topic 'darker' here.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:25 AM

Byte

Well, when you meet the couple it makes more sense

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:20 AM

fsk stake stake stake.

Hate vampires. Definitely on the pro-human side of the war.

(no actors were harmed in the writing of this post)

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Speakin of OM NOM NOM...
This bit from Mitsudomoe left me on the floor in hysterics...

Cause the entire subtitle for that 3-bag incident ?

OM NOM NOM!

hehehehe

-Frem

PS, You'd get a kick outta Hitoha Marui, kind reminds me of someone, hmmm...

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:39 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
EDIT: still trying not to blacken the thread so much.

But frankly, people do get tired of each other a lot. Numerous short relationships are much more common than a single long-term relationship.

Well you gotta remember, the way we evolved, 'happily ever after..' probably wasn't that long.

As a species, we are here to mate and reproduce and that is how our system has designed itself. At a certain age, our bodies, hormones, brain is literally screaming out to mate ie 'we want fucky fucky and lots of it'. Falling in love, the intimacy and empathy that results from these desires, is really also part of how we function. We are social animals, that need to live together to care for children. If we didn't have those feelings, we'd leave the little blighters for the wolves, because frankly they're pretty tiresome a lot of the time.

I hate to constantly harp on about the brain, but both falling in love and parenting are two of the major events in an adults life that results in massive neural reorganisation (particularly in a mothers brain - formerly known as 'baby brain' Me: "Brain, why can't I find my keys anymore?" Brain: "you don't need to find your keys, go and play with your baby") That's why I have this completely unproved theory about why some relationships last and others don't. If fathers are not able to really bond with their infants, then they don't get any of that rewiring. They still think with their 'fucky fucky' brains, rather than their parenting brains (not that they ever lose the fucky fucky part completely.)

Frankly, most people are unrealistic about love and relationships and that is because we believe a lot of the twaddle in popular fiction/tv/films etc. Those intense feelings of desire and romantic love that you experience when you first go 'click' with someone, do not last. Not at the same intensity anyway. YOu emerge from that red haze and may find yourself with someone that is quite unpleasant to live with or you have nothing in common. If you are lucky and a bit careful about who you do fall in love with, you may find yourself happy with a companion, and be able to do a bit of rekindling of the flames every now and then.

Whatever the reason, it's pretty amazing. I love LOVE.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:42 PM

Quote:
Frankly, most people are unrealistic about love and relationships and that is because we believe a lot of the twaddle in popular fiction/tv/films etc.

Truer words never spoken.

As for the rest, eh, can't comment don't wanna.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:00 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Om nom nom is one of my favorite pretend magical words, when ever I watch fantasy movies and someone is doing something of a magical variety, I'm like joking along with Wammo, Om nom nom. Wammo is my other favorite. I've got my dad doing it too.

If a person wants to call their spouse _one of their best friends I don't care, but I don't believe in ousting the person who had that honored position of best friend out of that position once the significant other pops up, I feel like that is a dishonor to the current best friend position holder. Obviously you'd oust them from the position if they did something really bad and you guys weren't friends anymore, but if you still are then don't chuck them out of that honored place. One can have more than one best friend and rank them equally. So the spouse could be one of your best friends.
But Cantt, I'm glad you and your husband have a good solid and happy relationship, that is nothing to sniff at indeed. From what I'm seeing around here, it sounds like few have found that happiness.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

If a person wants to call their spouse _one of their best friends I don't care, but I don't believe in ousting the person who had that honored position of best friend out of that position once the significant other pops up, I feel like that is a dishonor to the current best friend position holder.

i think the idea is that you grow into that relationsip, not just dump one friend for another.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Frankly, most people are unrealistic about love and relationships and that is because we believe a lot of the twaddle in popular fiction/tv/films etc.

Truer words never spoken.

As for the rest, eh, can't comment don't wanna.

Actually, these might be...

Quote:

we want fucky fucky and lots of it

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:47 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
One can have more than one best friend and rank them equally.

Absolutely.

I happen to think love is an on-off switch. I don't believe you can love someone MORE than others. Desire them more, yes. Prioritize your time and resources with certain people, yes. Want someone's well-being more than that of someone else, no.

But I have known spouses who say, "It's your best friend or me." And BF's who say, "It's your spouse or me." It's crazy. WTF? Yanno?

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:50 PM

Close enough.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:52 PM

I've also heard the fact that we can see our mates faces during intercourse facilitates 'love' on a psychological level and makes us more likely to stay with our mates through pregnancy and beyond as a species. I wonder if face to face intercourse generally results in more bonding than 'doggie style' or some other positions.

'Course, I don't know if many folks are exclusive to other positions in which you don't face your partner, not sure how that would be measured... But it's an interesting thought.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:11 PM

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:36 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Okay, every time I see this thread pop up, I start to sing, "...baby don't hurt me" and picture a couple guys in bad suits bopping their heads.

Aside from that, I have a few outlooks on love, or at least a few different ways to express my outlook.
I do think that love is a chemical reaction. I think that damn near everything is a chemical reaction. It doesn't devalue it a single bit to me, because there's no "only" about it. There's chemistry in everything I feel; the sorrow, the pain, the calm, the joy, the hunger, the fear. They all have their own power and impact. Affection is soothing. It decreases those stress chemicals that can wear me right out if they persist. Endorphins are also a-okay by me.
If I'm expressing it in other terms, love to me is primarily understanding and acceptance. When I understand someone, at least for the most part, I can generally give them what they need from me. When I can accept and take pleasure in the aspects of their personality and temperament, then I want to be around them. When someone understands me, and can accept everything they understand, I feel safe and loved, and able to love.
That's all outside the flutters and pleasure and desire for sex. They don't always coincide, but I really like it when they do, and I won't have a romantic relationship without that groundwork of understanding and some trust. It still doesn't always work out, and can burn all the harder when I lose a really good friend as well as a romantic partner, but I still think it's best to be sure there's some genuine affection in there with the passion, because passion will only get you so far. It's a rather unstable thing.

I rarely celebrate Valentine's Day, even when I'm attached. I find it to be trite. Any day you feel like it should be a day to let your loved one know they're loved. Setting aside a day and frilling it up with sugar and cards just doesn't personally do it for me. The most romantic things my boyfriend ever got me were not really traditionally romantic, being that they were an ipod and a Serenity keychain. They were also unattached to any particular day. He just wanted me to have them, and that was sort of the best part.
I don't want to sound like I'm condemning anyone who celebrates Valentine's in a more traditional way. I'm not. But why not do something nice in May? Why not October? Why not a couple days ago? As long as you're showing the person you love that they're important to you, it doesn't really matter when, or even how, as long as they know.

Ritual is what happens when we run out of rational.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:04 AM

And every time I here "This is love" I think about Tawny Kitaen in very short skirt.

Valentine's Day was never meant for couples. It was originally the day when single people were randomly handfasted to each other by the luck of the draw. It's a curious custom, and had been around for a long time. It still exists in a strange place: Our public schools. The handfasting lasts a year, and at the end of the year, the couple can opt to stay together, or got back into the mix.

When the RCC took it over, they changed it to "you will draw the name of a saint, and try to live like this saint for a year." This lasted three years, and then no one was interested, so it reverted. The church took about a century to come up was a reason why it was called Valentine's day, and when they did, they came up with three different Saint Valentines. Like most pagan holiday's, it's tricky.

PR,

Oxytocin.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:52 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sad to see so many cynics. Love is something to work at, to help one learn about one’s self, the other person, patience, acceptance and how to be a better person. That’s not my definition, that’s just my opinion on why so many people give up on love. The definitions already provided at the beginning of this thread are closest enough for me.

Quote:
a best friend is just as important as a partner

and

Quote:
I don't think that your best friend and your partner should be the same person. They are two positions which should be occupied by different people.

I agree with both.

I’ve had both kinds; the flash-in-the-pan attraction and the long-term, know-you-so-well-I-can-finish-your-sentences kind (for 30+ years). They’re both great. The first is physically very, very fun and exciting, but usually ends in disappointment. The second ceased to be very, very fun a couple of decades ago, but is a warm thing I treasure more than anything else in my life (well, the huskies come close...[biggrin]). Took Jim and I 20 years to both mature and grow, but that’s in the past so I can safely say “it was worth it”. At least now we’re reaping the rewards of sticking it out, and it’s just lovely, thank you.

I know all his foibles, so wasn’t surprised to find a box of See’s candies on the butcher block this morning with a note. V-Day isn’t even until Monday, but that’s no surprise, that’s Jim and I love him. Long, LONG ago I sent him downstairs when we had a See’s store in our building, with a list of my favorites and money to buy a pound box. He kept the list. Every V-Day: a box of my favoarite See’s. Thank gawd this time it was only half a pound, ‘cuz I just now finished off the last one! (Candy, not pound.) It’s a thoughtfulness I never thought to experience from him.

I’ll take the comparison to cats...if it can be in the form of a BACKrub. Gawd, I miss those. His back won’t let him sit that way and my back won’t let me lay on my stomach. He used to give such great backrubs. Did I say getting old SUX lately?

The thing that shocked me the most was that I could love two people equally, which is what happened with Jo and my husband. In TOTALLY different ways, but just as strongly. That was a shocker. I’ve never believed in there being “only one” for anyone, but to love two in simultaneously, I’d never have believed that possible. I do now.

To me, between

Quote:
Frankly, most people are unrealistic about love and relationships and that is because we believe a lot of the twaddle in popular fiction/tv/films etc.

and a lot of people never becoming self-aware enough to be willing to put the time and effort into a relationship, far too many don’t enjoy the benefits of love, which makes me sad. By not being self-aware, I mean those who buy into the fantasy, have unrealistic expectations, aren’t aware they may choose the wrong person for psychological reasons, or don’t love themselves enough to be able to love others.

Love is great; it’s what we DO with it that makes it good or bad.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA

It occurs to me that I am wired, mentally, very, very differently from other people.

That said, I can feel something akin to love, for an individual - obviously so, being a Poly, but my expression of it tends to come in different ways, mostly domestic (cook for you, do your laundry, little things..) and some folk, like my domestically-helpless ex, tend to take it as pity rather than kindness.

Of course, it's hard to tell for most folk since I've a habit of doing "nice" things for no particular REASON whatever, for folks I don't even know or like, just because I damn well please to, and have the time and opportunity to do so - that's not out of kindness but rather my way of spitting in the eye of a society gone rabidly sociopathic, a flipping of the bird to conventional standards and an affirmation of the way *I* feel the would SHOULD be.

And maybe that's a kind of love too, not for an individual, not even for people, whom I mostly flat out can't stand, to be honest about it...

But perhaps a love for humanity, as a concept, which if you think on it a while, is perhaps a greater thing.

Which circles right back to why I do, what I do, but hell if imma buy candy for a couple billion people!

-Frem

Quote:
John McClane: You know what you get for being a hero? Nothin'. You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah, blah, blah, attaboy. You get divorced. Your wife can't remember your last name. Your kids don't want to talk to you. You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me, kid, nobody wants to be that guy.
Matt Farrell: Then why you doing this?
John McClane: Because there's nobody else to do it right now, that's why. Believe me, if there were somebody else to do it, I'd let them do it, but there's not. So we're doing it.
—Live Free or Die Hard

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:02 AM

HKCAVALIER

It's threads like this that really bring home to me how far we have to go as a species.

I sometimes wonder why more people don't experience psychic awareness and other amazing facets of our empathic birthright, of this amazing meaning-saturated world we share and then I read something like this thread and--fuck--I get it.

People get closed off. They get closed off and then they learn how to keep closed off. Then they convince themselves that it's THE ONLY REALITY and, even worse, that they LIKE IT. Yeah, gimme some more o' that! Fucky-fucky is a great distraction, but be warned: it doesn't last forever. And then where does that leave ya? That's a nightmare to me.

Love is the only way you're ever gonna talk to the wind and get an answer back, okay? Love is the only reason you're not gonna laugh at what I just said. It's the only way you'll ever hear from your loved ones (ha!) after they die (and it's the only way you'll be able to contact the people you leave behind when you pass over).

It's the only reason your animals put up with you. It's the reason there is any peace on earth. And it's the only reason we will ever stop all this ugly dominating horseshit and be kind to ourselves.

Being kind to other people, yeah, you can jerry-rig a heartless justification for that. But being kind to ourselves in the dead of night when no one is looking? That takes love and love's sweet little sister, forgiveness. We can go on about social this and genetic that but at the end of the day the only reason you're gonna be kind to yourself, respect yourself, give yourself a gorram break, the only reason you're gonna "bond" with your own experience and not remain alienated and disdainful of your failures is love.

Love is what separates the men from the boys. Love is what's left when all your illusions have died, so I suggest you prepare. 'Cause we're all gonna be lying there one day and in those last moments love is gonna come to you and if you've never shaken hands before, the lack of love in your heart will burn like a thousand suns.

It's love or nightmares, kiddo--you choose.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:28 AM

I just talk to the voices in my head. They're pretty mean, generally, but sometimes even the wind talks back.

And the internet.

Are you real? *bug eyes*

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:33 AM

Well said!

I've don't usually think much about 'love' which is one of the reasons I've started this thread. That and every time I saw 'what is science' I kept getting 'what is love? Baby don't hurt me...' stuck in my head.

I've always believed in love, and always loved it, but have had difficulty figuring out what true romantic love is

Is it supposedly to be a magic spark or is it meant start smaller and to grow over time? I eventually came to the conclusion that I'm thinking about it too much and had faith that if I continue on in the best manner I know how, I will eventually find love or love will eventually find me.

I mean that in the romantic sense, I'm a very loving person care deeply for everyone I get to know. The whole figuring out if this person should be the one and only till death do us part thing is kinda difficult, but I guess it should be considering (ideally) that we only intend to make that commitment once.

Religion without science is foolish, but science without religion is pointless.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:49 AM

The only way I think anyone can know for sure that any good deed they do is not motivated by personal gain is if it's impersonal and disinterested.

And if you fail more than you succeed, and if the world continues to get worse whether you're there or not, no matter how hard you try to stop the inevitable, then you know for certain that you receive no joy from it.

I will have nothing to comfort me in my final moments, and my final moments will be ignominious, anonymous, and alone. It is exactly what has to be, and I am prepared for it.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:08 AM

Everyone acts in self interest. There are only a couple factors which qualify it:
1) whether you admit it or not. If you don't, your deceiving at least one person
2) whether you check to see if your interests coincide with or conflict with those of others before acting

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:14 AM

It's true. Even what I said above is hypocritical, it contradicts #2, as none of you want to hear it. And it's the way I want to be, so that's #1.

And yet, it's my reality. If HK had not attacked my reality, I would never have said anything. But I'm tired of being attacked by people who tell me that all I need is love. No. All I need is a cause worth my sacrifice. Point me in the right direction.

You want to talk to me about nightmares? I am one. That's the terrible truth.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:20 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The only way I think anyone can know for sure that any good deed they do is not motivated by personal gain is if it's impersonal and disinterested.

The premise of that argument seems to be that love has a problem with personal gain; that doing something out of love and doing something for personal gain are mutually exclusive. I heartily disagree with that premise and find no grounds for it.

I think it's led a lot of people to hate themselves more, not less. What does that say about its relationship to love?

This mutual exclusion premise is actually a first cognitive step toward cutting the self off from the rest of reality. It places undue focus on the self as a tiny helpless ugly little monster and love as this transcendent, unattainable perfection. Not buyin' that for a second.

Love is a both/and phenomenon, not an either/or.

Quote:
I will have nothing to comfort me in my final moments, and my final moments will be ignominious, anonymous, and alone. It is exactly what has to be, and I am prepared for it.

You sound very sure of this. Barring catastrophe, you have a lot of years ahead of you in which to find another conclusion. Can you tell me what makes you so certain, so early in life, of this end for you? And do you think this is the universal ending for all of us, or just your personal exit?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:23 AM

You people can do whatever the hell you want. I'm just the pack mule.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:28 AM

HKCAVALIER

???

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:51 AM

Sorry, lost my temper. Who wants cake?

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Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:53 PM