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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
cynical or delusional?
Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:12 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:46 PM
DREAMTROVE
Thursday, July 28, 2011 6:14 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:However, as long as the left is tasteless and vulgar, [the Tea Party] will continue to get votes.
Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:10 PM
Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:54 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Friday, July 29, 2011 1:49 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:However, as long as the left is tasteless and vulgar, [the Tea Party] will continue to get votes. By being more tasteless and vulgar, of course.
Friday, July 29, 2011 1:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "Now they have the big tent." Er, no. Now they have the circus tent of crazy clowns and the rubes who love them.
Friday, July 29, 2011 3:48 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: How can you fly your private jet to an 'invitation only' meeting held by billionaires to learn what their bidding is in the interests of their wealth - and, if you are at all sincere - consider yourself a populist? For example. How can you hide what you are doing from the public in that way and think you are doing the publics will? Any thoughts?
Friday, July 29, 2011 6:33 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Friday, July 29, 2011 8:10 AM
Quote:Originally posted by dreamtrove: Sometimes, sure, but recognize that a large segment of the population did not grow up with the kind of Jon Stewart/South Park kind of juvenile bathroom language frequently used by the RIGHT, and is immediately turned off by it, including myself.
Friday, July 29, 2011 8:18 AM
Quote:the left tries to pretend it has the moral fortitude to follow through when things get nasty, and they don't, and everybody knows it, reducing that end of the political spectrum to a pack of feckless curs and gutless pansies unwilling or unable to take a stand about anything meaningful.
Friday, July 29, 2011 8:42 AM
Friday, July 29, 2011 11:13 AM
Friday, July 29, 2011 12:38 PM
PENGUIN
Friday, July 29, 2011 3:28 PM
BYTEMITE
Friday, July 29, 2011 3:51 PM
Quote:The state of the country is divided, and so is this board
Quote:when I know what everyone's going on about, but everyone seems to be misunderstanding each other.
Friday, July 29, 2011 3:53 PM
Friday, July 29, 2011 4:13 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: It's frustrating when I know what everyone's going on about, but everyone seems to be misunderstanding each other. The state of the country is divided, and so is this board.
Quote:“There are two great powers, and they’ve been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit.”
Friday, July 29, 2011 4:16 PM
Friday, July 29, 2011 4:38 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: Unfortunately no. There's quite a bit of talking past each other going on. But, you're right, it's to be expected. So I guess it doesn't necessarily signify a change for the worse.
Friday, July 29, 2011 4:46 PM
Friday, July 29, 2011 5:34 PM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:04 AM
Quote:My concern is that it is being heavily funded by the federal reserve and the oil companies
Wednesday, August 3, 2011 2:04 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Wednesday, August 3, 2011 5:01 PM
Quote: My concern is that it is being heavily funded by the federal reserve and the oil companies Please show statistics backing up that statement.
Quote:That said, there's something a bit creepy about the megapower that's accumulating at the Fed, one of Washington's least accountable institutions. Why should the markets decide who oversees them? Haven't the markets decided enough? Bernanke may be the ideal benevolent financial despot — a nebbishy superscholar with minimal connections to Wall Street and no previous hunger for power — but the next Fed chairman may be less ideal. And Obama has proposed to give even more regulatory power to the Fed, even though it has shown little interest in the past in curbing the excesses of the markets. At the same time, any politician who meddles with the Fed gets pilloried for threatening its hallowed independence; it's like the Supreme Court, if the Supreme Court could pour trillions of dollars wherever it wanted.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:36 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:40 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Funny to see how the Left tries to twists and distort every damn thing under the sun... never ceases to amuse. The TEA party started as the very definition of a 'grass roots' movement, by real Americans who are simply fed up at the ineffectiveness of the Federal govt and who are tired of the same old politics as usual b.s. And naturally, because of its popularity, it has drawn the attention by like minded folks, even some who are very successful, and want to add their say ( as well as money ) into the movement. Were it not for George Soros, and the workers world party, we'd never have seen those " peace " rallies, against the Iraq war. Those were entirely staged by " outside money ", though the mouth breathers on the Left want to try to paint the TEA party as being mere 'astro turf' ,when they themselves are the originators in phony causes. b]
Thursday, August 4, 2011 2:33 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:28 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:39 AM
Quote: Obama still received $884,000 from the oil and gas industry during the 2008 campaign, more than any other lawmaker except his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, who received $889,000
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Um. Ron Paul started the tea party, at which point it was grass roots, then media personalities came in and took over, which is when it became funded by something other than public dollars and ideas. You've probably got a point about George Soros, but that just leads to an important conclusion here. A movement can evolve into or even start as an astroturf, but that doesn't mean the average members of the people involved in the movement aren't well meaning or genuinely concerned.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:57 AM
Quote:I would like to see a future of pure self determination of every group, whether they see their social change as socialist progress, or religious theocracy doesn't matter, all that matters is that in envisioning their own future, that no one is able to force that future on someone else
Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:30 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:42 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:57 AM
Quote:For my own part, and my own experience, the TEA party got its spark back in summer of '06, when then President Bush , along w/ McCain, pushed for the idiotic 'comprehensive' immigration bill, which did next to nothing to solve the illegal immigration problem, and only did MORE to increase the size and power of the federal bureaucracy. Frustration over that issue actually had been mounting, and when it was learned that Bush was basically unaware of there being a wide spread movement to do something about illegal immigration, that set off some alarm bells with the aware public.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 7:02 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There's nothing remotely 'delusional' about my reply. You stating it isn't in the least bit proof of that fact. I'm sorry, but your out of hand dismissal of anything you can't deal with or don't want to deal with is pathetic. For my own part, and my own experience, the TEA party got its spark back in summer of '06, when then President Bush , along w/ McCain, pushed for the idiotic 'comprehensive' immigration bill, which did next to nothing to solve the illegal immigration problem, and only did MORE to increase the size and power of the federal bureaucracy. Frustration over that issue actually had been mounting, and when it was learned that Bush was basically unaware of there being a wide spread movement to do something about illegal immigration, that set off some alarm bells with the aware public. The resulting inactivity of the federal govt, but the so called 'leaders' of the GOP, and their deafness towards their own constituents, imo, is what set in motion what would later become the TEA party movement. Washington wasn't listening. Not the GOP, and certainly not the Democrats. It was time for Americans to get angry, and get active.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:08 AM
Quote: As to the Tea Party, it was pretty clear to me that the original Tea Party was started by Ron Paul; what we have now bears little resemblance, in my opinion, to that actual grass-roots movement
Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There's nothing remotely 'delusional' about my reply. You stating it isn't in the least bit proof of that fact. I'm sorry, but your out of hand dismissal of anything you can't deal with or don't want to deal with is pathetic. For my own part, and my own experience, the TEA party got its spark back in summer of '06, when then President Bush , along w/ McCain, pushed for the idiotic 'comprehensive' immigration bill, which did next to nothing to solve the illegal immigration problem, and only did MORE to increase the size and power of the federal bureaucracy. Frustration over that issue actually had been mounting, and when it was learned that Bush was basically unaware of there being a wide spread movement to do something about illegal immigration, that set off some alarm bells with the aware public. The resulting inactivity of the federal govt, but the so called 'leaders' of the GOP, and their deafness towards their own constituents, imo, is what set in motion what would later become the TEA party movement. Washington wasn't listening. Not the GOP, and certainly not the Democrats. It was time for Americans to get angry, and get active. What a whiner! I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 9:30 AM
Quote: heads popped up all over the place and said "i'm the tea party! and so's my wife!" Also, Rupert Murdoch, more than the GOP. The republican party actually didn't want to fund a split in itself, but once the candidates won prinaries, of course they funded them to office, because then they were the GOP candidates.....After a while, they got more into it, once it was proven that this could be used to gain seats rather than split the party. Now I'd say they own it, and it's not very different form the mainstream GOP.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 9:40 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:07 AM
Quote:An article in Politico stated that many Tea Party activists see the caucus as an effort by the Republican Party to hijack the movement. Utah congressman Jason Chaffetz refused to join the caucus, saying "Structure and formality are the exact opposite of what the Tea Party is, and if there is an attempt to put structure and formality around it, or to co-opt it by Washington, D.C., it’s going to take away from the free-flowing nature of the true tea party movement."
Quote:- Fiery Republicans known as the Tea Party Caucus are at the center of the debate over which version of a plan - if any - to cut spending and raise the debt limit should be adopted in Congress. These conservatives, many of whom were swept into office during the 2010 midterm elections, have made it their mission to reign in spending and shrink the size of government, even if it means taking the country to the edge of default. More at http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/29/who-is-the-tea-party-caucus-in-the-house/
Quote:Members of the freshly minted House Tea Party Caucus spent their first day of existence Wednesday trying to clarify just who they are — a tricky task when the Tea Party opposes big government and the caucus members work in the heart of it. .... The group includes three members of the Republican leadership, including Representative Mike Pence of Indiana, who as chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee is leading the party’s effort to win back the House. More at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/us/politics/22tea.html you elaborate on how you determined the Tea Partiers in the House have been hijacked by the GOP? Certainly the GOP WANTED to take over the movement once it gained attention, in order to gain seats last year, but I'm skeptical that it's actually been taken over by the GOP and the GOP are the extremists. You could certainly be right, especially givenQuote:The main difference is the willingness of the Tea Party gang to say what they believe out loud. This, of course, is driving Republican political consultants crazy. Republicans have never gotten elected by laying out to the voters the core components of their economic agenda. When they have been successful it has generally been by soft-pedaling or sugar-coating the things that mattered most to their corporate backers and playing instead to the fears and anxieties of their rank and file voters. ..... Most of the Republican Party leadership agrees with [the Tea Party] policies. The problem is that these candidates don't seem to have enough sense -- or political experience -- to know that they're not supposed to go around talking about those policies before they're elected. More at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/whats-the-difference-betw_b_682799.html This is how I've viewed it:Quote: Tea Party Republicans have been flexing their muscles in the debt ceiling standoff, but their strong-arm tactics could backfire if the public comes to view them as unrelenting extremists. John Boehner has been struggling to control the Republican House, and has been pushed and pressured into a debt ceiling bill that's left little room for compromise - and the Tea Partiers have been the ones doing the pushing. They're a relatively small but very powerful group of Republicans. "The Tea Party has forced Speaker Boehner more to the right. That involved deeper spending cuts and also support for the balance budget amendment. So they have had a disproportionate impact on the entire Congressional debate," Darrell West with the Brookings Institution said. It's extraordinary considering the portion of the House they make up. The Tea Party Caucus has 60 members, which is only a quarter of the total number of Republicans in the House. But when Boehner had to delay the vote on his bill to get more votes, Tea Party members made up more than half of the Republicans who were prepared to vote no. It's a continuation of the moment triggered last fall when the Tea Party captured political lightning in a bottle and helped elect dozens of new congressmen. They came in on a promise to shock Washington into spending less and cutting more. Their unwillingness to compromise has changed the way the government handles its debt. But now even Senator John McCain, a budget-hawk himself, said they risk over-reaching if they never compromise. "That is not fair to the American people to hold out and say we won't agree to raising the debt-limit until we pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. It's unfair, it's bizarro," McCain said on the Senate floor. The Tea Party may already be setting itself on a road to self-destruction. "They are now putting themselves in peril. The Tea Party could destroy itself, if it is now careful, if it is seen as taking us into default," CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen said. Public disapproval for the Tea Party has been steadily growing, from 26 percent to 47 percent, since January last year. Analyst Darrell West said that may not hurt Tea Party congress members themselves in their next elections because many come from safe districts. But he said the Republican Party may suffer the consequences. "The Republican presidential nominee may end up suffering the consequences, because Obama certainly is going to tie that GOP nominee to the more extreme elements within the Republican party in Congress," he said. But many Tea Party lawmakers seem to relish the fight, and said voters sent them to Washington on a mission, and they're more worried about cutting spending than winning a popularity contest. http://www.ksla.com/story/15177885/republicans-faced-with-tea-partys-power Unless the GOP is using the Tea Party Caucaus to hide behind, it has certainly seemed since they were elected that those who call themselves Tea Partiers in the House have been the ones bent on ideological purity and never compromising. And if you're tempted to snark that it's because I pay attention the the MSM, I've seen the same in many places on the internet as well, and not just from liberal sources.
Quote:The main difference is the willingness of the Tea Party gang to say what they believe out loud. This, of course, is driving Republican political consultants crazy. Republicans have never gotten elected by laying out to the voters the core components of their economic agenda. When they have been successful it has generally been by soft-pedaling or sugar-coating the things that mattered most to their corporate backers and playing instead to the fears and anxieties of their rank and file voters. ..... Most of the Republican Party leadership agrees with [the Tea Party] policies. The problem is that these candidates don't seem to have enough sense -- or political experience -- to know that they're not supposed to go around talking about those policies before they're elected. More at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/whats-the-difference-betw_b_682799.html
Quote: Tea Party Republicans have been flexing their muscles in the debt ceiling standoff, but their strong-arm tactics could backfire if the public comes to view them as unrelenting extremists. John Boehner has been struggling to control the Republican House, and has been pushed and pressured into a debt ceiling bill that's left little room for compromise - and the Tea Partiers have been the ones doing the pushing. They're a relatively small but very powerful group of Republicans. "The Tea Party has forced Speaker Boehner more to the right. That involved deeper spending cuts and also support for the balance budget amendment. So they have had a disproportionate impact on the entire Congressional debate," Darrell West with the Brookings Institution said. It's extraordinary considering the portion of the House they make up. The Tea Party Caucus has 60 members, which is only a quarter of the total number of Republicans in the House. But when Boehner had to delay the vote on his bill to get more votes, Tea Party members made up more than half of the Republicans who were prepared to vote no. It's a continuation of the moment triggered last fall when the Tea Party captured political lightning in a bottle and helped elect dozens of new congressmen. They came in on a promise to shock Washington into spending less and cutting more. Their unwillingness to compromise has changed the way the government handles its debt. But now even Senator John McCain, a budget-hawk himself, said they risk over-reaching if they never compromise. "That is not fair to the American people to hold out and say we won't agree to raising the debt-limit until we pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. It's unfair, it's bizarro," McCain said on the Senate floor. The Tea Party may already be setting itself on a road to self-destruction. "They are now putting themselves in peril. The Tea Party could destroy itself, if it is now careful, if it is seen as taking us into default," CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen said. Public disapproval for the Tea Party has been steadily growing, from 26 percent to 47 percent, since January last year. Analyst Darrell West said that may not hurt Tea Party congress members themselves in their next elections because many come from safe districts. But he said the Republican Party may suffer the consequences. "The Republican presidential nominee may end up suffering the consequences, because Obama certainly is going to tie that GOP nominee to the more extreme elements within the Republican party in Congress," he said. But many Tea Party lawmakers seem to relish the fight, and said voters sent them to Washington on a mission, and they're more worried about cutting spending than winning a popularity contest. http://www.ksla.com/story/15177885/republicans-faced-with-tea-partys-power
Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:33 AM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There's nothing remotely 'delusional' about my reply. You stating it isn't in the least bit proof of that fact. I'm sorry, but your out of hand dismissal of anything you can't deal with or don't want to deal with is pathetic. For my own part, and my own experience, the TEA party got its spark back in summer of '06, when then President Bush , along w/ McCain, pushed for the idiotic 'comprehensive' immigration bill, which did next to nothing to solve the illegal immigration problem, and only did MORE to increase the size and power of the federal bureaucracy. Frustration over that issue actually had been mounting, and when it was learned that Bush was basically unaware of there being a wide spread movement to do something about illegal immigration, that set off some alarm bells with the aware public. The resulting inactivity of the federal govt, but the so called 'leaders' of the GOP, and their deafness towards their own constituents, imo, is what set in motion what would later become the TEA party movement. Washington wasn't listening. Not the GOP, and certainly not the Democrats. It was time for Americans to get angry, and get active. What a whiner!]
Thursday, August 4, 2011 2:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: And what a troll. Nothing I said was in the least bit 'whining'. It was reasoned, mature, well presented and to the point. YOUR idiotic reply ?
Thursday, August 4, 2011 2:51 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: And what a troll. Nothing I said was in the least bit 'whining'. It was reasoned, mature, well presented and to the point. YOUR idiotic reply ? Does the baby need a tissue? I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:04 PM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Could you elaborate on how you determined the Tea Partiers in the House have been hijacked by the GOP? Certainly the GOP WANTED to take over the movement once it gained attention, in order to gain seats last year, but I'm skeptical that it's actually been taken over by the GOP and the GOP are the extremists.
Quote:Unless the GOP is using the Tea Party Caucaus to hide behind
Thursday, August 4, 2011 4:17 PM
Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:01 PM
Friday, August 5, 2011 2:39 PM
Quote:Lost in the tumult of media exaggeration and sensationalism was the fact that this was not at all a grass roots movement of average Americans, but a crafty example of political manipulation laid out in tandem with the compliance of Rupert Murdoch’s news network’s assault upon all things they deem liberal. The prime mover in this is Richard “Dick” Armey, a former Texas Republican Congressman, House Majority Leader, and major senior lobbyist at a worldwide lobbying firm. Armey created the mythology of a grass roots movement, guided its progress, arranged, and then paid for its “spontaneous” events.
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