REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

No interstellar travel for 2-5 centuries

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 06:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1393
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:36 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Looks like Firefly, not Prometheus, has it about right:

Quote:

In Ridley Scott’s new movie “Prometheus,” a group of humans travel to another star on a trillion-dollar spaceship. The year is 2093. And that got me wondering: Could humans really travel to another solar system that soon?

Possibly not. A fascinating recent research paper by Marc G. Millis, a former NASA expert on breakthrough propulsion, suggests that we probably won’t be ready to travel to other stars for at least another two to five centuries. How does he figure? Because, he argues, even if we do invent faster, niftier spaceships, there may not be enough energy available to reach other stars anytime soon.

Here’s Millis’s reasoning: Imagine we merely wanted to launch a small, 11-ton probe that took 75 years to get to our closest star, Alpha Centauri. That’s only about four light-years away. A fairly modest goal. Regardless of what type of propulsion technology is used, that probe would need a jaw-dropping amount of power just to accelerate out to Alpha Centauri and then decelerate once it gets there. (This is based on the kinetic energy of the probe — by Millis’s calculations it would take, at absolute minimum, 8.1 x 10^16 Watts of power.)

And humans don’t exactly have that energy just lying around. For the past three decades, the total energy produced by the world has grown at a modest pace — around 1.9 percent per year. And humans have devoted just a tiny fraction of that to spaceflight. Unless either of those trends changes radically, Millis calculates, we won’t have the energy needed to launch an Alpha Centauri probe until sometime around the year 2463, at the earliest.

The good news, Millis notes, is that we could probably have a small colony ship that contained a bunch of humans ready even sooner, by the year 2200 or so. This ship couldn’t necessarily travel to other stars — it wouldn’t be nearly as fast as the Alpha Centauri probe — but it could pack about 500 people in, with supplies. This might be a good backup plan in case we end up trashing the Earth beyond repair and need to ensure the survival of the species.

Below is a graph showing how soon different future spaceships might arrive depending on how fast the world’s energy supply grows. If some genius invents cold fusion, then maybe the energy supply will grow more rapidly and we’ll be able to squeeze out an interstellar probe by 2250 or so. (On the other hand, if we get all this energy by burning more and more fossil fuels and cooking the planet, this whole discussion might be moot.)


Millis, who’s now at the Tau Zero Foundation, also raises an interesting paradox. No matter when we launch the first interstellar probe, it’ll take a long time to reach its destination. Which means it’s quite plausible that we’ll later invent a newer, faster interstellar probe that gets to the star even sooner, with more modern equipment. Which raises the question of why we even bothered to launch that first probe.

Anyway, there are more numbers in Millis’s paper (pdf), which is available on Arxiv. Nor is this paper the last word on the subject. But bottom line: Any sci-fi movie that suggests we’ll go explore other solar systems by the end of the 21st century is probably way too optimistic!



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/sorry-prometheus-f
ans-no-interstellar-travel-for-five-more-centuries/2012/06/12/gJQAjn6yXV_blog.html

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Which raises the question of why we even bothered to launch that first probe.


Hello,

One wonders why we didn't go straight from the bronze age to the steel age and skip the pesky soft-iron stage of metallurgy.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:48 AM

BYTEMITE


Didn't factor in a possible singularity. Which might not happen, but still.

It is nice to see NASA agree with Joss about something though.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:42 AM

STORYMARK


I wonder, at the turn on the last century, when most people were still getting around on horses, how long they projected it would tkae to walk on the moon?

Id wager we pulled it off a bit sooner than they would have predicted.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:15 AM

BYTEMITE


Ooh. Also a good point.

Space travel is really important to me, because I think it's the only hope life on earth has of outlasting the inevitable death of the solar system.

Earth's great, but even without the influence of humans, it's only going to be habitable for another billion years before the sun starts burn helium. Things will almost certainly change in the natural world between now and then, but if people are really serious about protecting and conserving the other species on earth, space is ultimately the only way. Which means humans are necessary, and have to step up into the role we've created for ourselves.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:42 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Good point Story. I think assuming that human energy development won't accelerate is quite pessimistic; we're bound to develop new energy technologies (fusion?) at some point, almost certainly the first half of this century.

Also, interesting take Byte.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:21 AM

STORYMARK


It may well take centuries before we have the energy resources nessesary, so based on current tech, the estimate is probably reasonable.

But, theoretically, we're always one discovery away from changing the given paradigm.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
The Olive Branch (Or... a proposed Reboot)
Sun, November 24, 2024 19:17 - 3 posts
Musk Announces Plan To Buy MSNBC And Turn It Into A News Network
Sun, November 24, 2024 19:05 - 1 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:05 - 565 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:01 - 953 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Sun, November 24, 2024 17:13 - 7497 posts
Elections; 2024
Sun, November 24, 2024 16:24 - 4799 posts
US debt breaks National Debt Clock
Sun, November 24, 2024 14:13 - 33 posts
The predictions thread
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:15 - 1189 posts
The mysteries of the human mind: cell phone videos and religiously-driven 'honor killings' in the same sentence. OR How the rationality of the science that surrounds people fails to penetrate irrational beliefs.
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:11 - 18 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:05 - 4762 posts
Sweden Europe and jihadi islamist Terror...StreetShitters, no longer just sending it all down the Squat Toilet
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:01 - 25 posts
MSNBC "Journalist" Gets put in his place
Sun, November 24, 2024 12:40 - 2 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL