REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

So you think humans are unique?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 04:18
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Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We've discussed this before, in one way or another, so as a continuation of the topic, I thought these were interesting:
Quote:

THERE was a time when we thought humans were special in so many ways. Now we know better. We are not the only species that feels emotions, empathises with others or abides by a moral code. Neither are we the only ones with personalities, cultures and the ability to design and use tools. Yet we have steadfastly clung to the notion that one attribute, at least, makes us unique: we alone have the capacity for language.

Alas, it turns out we are not so special in this respect either. Key to the revolutionary reassessment of our talent for communication is the way we think about language itself. Where once it was seen as a monolith, a discrete and singular entity, today scientists find it is more productive to think of language as a suite ... http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826571.700-so-you-think-humans
-are-unique.html
only part of the article, you have to sign up to get the whole thing (which I'm not about to do!) But it makes a good intro to this other one:
Quote:

Six 'uniquely' human traits now found in animals

1. Culture
Art, theatre, literature, music, religion, architecture and cuisine - these are the things we generally associate with culture. Clearly no other animal has anything approaching this level of cultural sophistication. But culture at its core is simply the sum of a particular group's characteristic ways of living, learned from one another and passed down the generations, and other primate species undoubtedly have practices that are unique to groups, such as a certain way of greeting each other or obtaining food.

Even more convincing examples of animal cultures are found in cetaceans. Killer whales, for example, fall into two distinct groups, residents and transients. Although both live in the same waters and interbreed, they have very different social structures and lifestyles, distinct ways of communicating, different tastes in food and characteristic hunting techniques - all of which parents teach to offspring.

Hal Whitehead, Dalhousie University writes:

"Since our 2001 review, people have often considered culture as a potential explanation of the behavioural patterns that have turned up in their studies of whales and dolphins.

"Our own work has concentrated on the non-vocal forms of sperm-whale culture. The different cultural clans of sperm whales, although in basically the same areas, use these waters very differently, and are affected very differently by El Niño events. They also have different reproductive rates.

"In sperm whales, and likely other whales and dolphins, culture has the potential to affect population biology, and so issues as diverse as genetic evolution and the impacts of global warming on the species."

2. Mind reading
Perhaps the surest sign that an individual has insight into the mind of another is the ability to deceive. To outwit someone you must understand their desires, intentions and motives - exactly the same ability that underpins the "theory of mind". This ability to attribute mental states to others was once thought unique to humans, emerging suddenly around the fifth year of life. But the discovery that babies are capable of deception led experts to conclude that "mind-reading" skills develop gradually, and fuelled debate about whether they might be present in other primates.

Experiments in the 1990s indicated that great apes and some monkeys do understand deception, but that their understanding of the minds of others is probably implicit rather than explicit as it is in adult humans.

Marc Hauser, Harvard University, writes:

"The tamarin work didn't pan out, but there are now several studies that show evidence of theory of mind in primates, including work by Brian Hare, Josep Call, Mike Tomasello, Felix Warneken, Laurie Santos, Justin Wood, and myself on chimps, rhesus monkeys and tamarins. There is nothing quite like a successful Sally-Anne test, but studies point to abilities such as seeing as a form of knowing, reading intentions and goals."

3. Tool use
Some chimps use rocks to crack nuts, others fish for termites with blades of grass and a gorilla has been seen gauging the depth of water with the equivalent of a dipstick, but no animal wields tools with quite the alacrity of the New Caledonian crow. To extract tasty insects from crevices, they craft a selection of hooks and long, barbed tapers called stepped-cut tools, made by intricately cutting a pandanus leaf with their beaks. What's more, experiments in the lab suggest that they understand the function of tools and deploy creativity and planning to construct them.

Nobody is suggesting that toolmaking has common origins in humans and crows, but there is a remarkable similarity in the ways in which their respective brains work. Both are highly lateralised, revealed in the observation that most crows are right-beaked - cutting pandanus leaves using the right side of their beaks. New Caledonian crows may force us to reassess the mental abilities of our first toolmaking ancestors.

Gavin Hunt at the University of Aukland, writes:

"The general aim of our research on New Caledonian crows is to determine how a 'bird brain' can produce such complex tools and tool behaviour. Since the New Scientist article appeared in 2002, our team has focused on continuing to document tool manufacture and use in the wild (New Zealand Journal of Zoology, vol 35 p 115), the development of tool skills in free-living juveniles, the social behaviour and ecology of NC crows on the island of Maré, experimental work investigating NC crows' physical cognition and general intelligence, and neurological work.

"Some of this work is being undertaken collaboratively with laboratories in Germany (neurology) and New Zealand (genotyping). A very similar study is also being carried out independently at the University of Oxford. This parallel research has produced findings that are both confirmatory and conflicting."

Alex Kacelnik, University of Oxford, adds:

"We now know for sure that genetics is involved in the tool-making abilities of new Caledonian crows. We raised nestlings by hand and found that chicks that had never seen anybody handle objects of any kind started to use tools to extract food from crevices at a similar age to those who were exposed to human tutors using tools (Animal Behaviour, vol 72, p 1329). Clearly, observing others is not necessary for the tool use. However chicks exposed to tutoring exhibit a greater intensity of tool-related activity. Not surprisingly, genes and experience show a complex interaction.

"We have also developed a new technique, consisting of loading tiny video cameras on free-ranging birds, so as to see what they see and document the precise use of tools in nature. We have discovered that they use tools in loose soil, that they use a kind of tool not previously described (grass stems), and that they hunt for vertebrates (lizards). All of this, together with laboratory analysis of their cognitive abilities is forming a richer picture of what the species can do."

4. Morality
A classic study in 1964 found that hungry rhesus monkeys would not take food they had been offered if doing so meant that another monkey received an electric shock. The same is true of rats. Does this indicate nascent morality? For decades, we have preferred to find alternative explanations, but recently ethologist Marc Bekoff from the University of Colorado at Boulder has championed the view that humans are not the only moral species. He argues that morality is common in social mammals, and that during play they learn the rights and wrongs of social interaction, the "moral norms that can then be extended to other situations such as sharing food, defending resources, grooming and giving care".

Marc Bekoff, University of Colorado, writes:

"Work published this year showed that animals are able to make social evaluations and these assessments are foundational for moral behaviour in animals other than humans. Francys Subiaul of the George Washington University and his colleagues showed that captive chimpanzees are able to make judgments about the reputation of unfamiliar humans by observing their behaviour - whether they were generous or stingy in giving food to other humans. The ability to make character judgments is just what we would expect to find in a species in which fairness and cooperation are important in interactions among group members (Animal Cognition, DOI: 10.1007/s10071-008-0151-6)."

5. Emotions
Emotions allow us to bond with others, regulate our social interactions and make it possible to behave flexibly in different situations. We are not the only animals that need to do these things, so why should we be the only ones with emotions? There are many examples of apparent emotional behaviour in other animals.

Elephants caring for a crippled herd member seem to show empathy. A funeral ritual performed by magpies suggests grief. Was it spite that led a male baboon called Nick to take revenge on a rival by urinating on her? Divers who freed a humpback whale caught in a crab line describe its reaction as one of gratitude. Then there's the excited dance chimps perform when faced with a waterfall - it looks distinctly awe-inspired. These days, few doubt that animals have emotions, but whether they feel these consciously, as we do, is open to debate.

6. Personality
It's no surprise that animals that live under constant threat from predators are extra-cautious, while those that face fewer risks appear to be more reckless. After all, such successful survival strategies would evolve by natural selection. But the discovery that individuals of the same species, living under the same conditions, vary in their degree of boldness or caution is more remarkable. In humans we would refer to such differences as personality traits.

From cowardly spiders and reckless salamanders to aggressive songbirds and fearless fish, we are finding that many animals are not as characterless as we might expect. What's more, work with animals has led to the idea that personality traits evolve to help individuals survive in a wider variety of ecological niches, and this is influencing the way psychologists think about human personality. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13860-six-uniquely-human-traits-
now-found-in-animals.html?full=true




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Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Until dolphins build a hospital or chimps start cultivating crops and invent fire, I think we're pretty unique.

But as for the other stuff, yeah, we ain't all that. Which leads me to think that if such varied life forms can display emotions and show concern for others ( not just with in their own species ) and all that, then why not on other planets ?

Hard to claim something is 'universal' when we've only got 1 planet to draw examples from, but so far, it's a pretty good start.

Now, if we can just get away from the raping, face eating and general dickish qualities, I'd feel a bit better about the future.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:22 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

A classic study in 1964 found that hungry rhesus monkeys would not take food they had been offered if doing so meant that another monkey received an electric shock.

What an experiment!

Good article Niki. Humans may not be 'unique' as such, but one could argue that we are the 'pinnacle' of all these traits.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, June 17, 2012 4:34 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Goddam Niki....

Most of my posts are half that length, but really, I can't sit and read something that long without at least somebody I know give a synopsis up-front, or at least at the ass-end if you're afraid you might jade somebody.

If I wanted to read 30 page articles, I'd subscribe to the New York Times.....

So, without reading your posted novel, yes, humans are unique....

I can stick my thumb up a prostitute's ass.

Let's see a monkey or dolphin do that....




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Monday, June 18, 2012 4:23 AM

CAVETROLL


Humans are unique on Earth in that we control our environment.

However, uniqueness does not guarantee continued existence. We are busily, although unintentionally, breeding better microorganisms that have the potential to one day destroy us. MRSAs were unknown when I was born. We eliminated smallpox in the wild, but we now have AIDs and other viruses to replace it with.

I really hope we make it off this rock before we, or mother nature, decides to reboot and try again.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 4:33 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I can stick my thumb up a prostitute's ass.

Let's see a monkey or dolphin do that....



Uh... Well, monkeys can technically do that, in that they have both prostitution behaviour and thumbs. And dolphins are no strangers to solicitation.

Having a scat fetishist on the board kind of takes the disturbingly smelly cake though. I can't say I understand why you'd WANT to do this, let alone pay for it, but you're not really hurting anyone except for the disease risk you're exposing yourself to, so I guess that's up to you.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 5:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

we are the 'pinnacle' of all these traits.
Well said, KPO. I hadn't thought of it, but that's a fair statement.

Cave, I hope we DON'T make it off this rock, myownself, at least until (if) we clean up our act. No desire to see us ruin other pretty blue rocks.

Byte, I had to giggle. Porpoises and dolphins ARE the horniest animals I've ever met (perhaps next to some some species of monkeys ;o) ), in my opinion. When I worked at Marineworld, I learned that female trainers don't go in with the dolphins during their menses--of course, they told me that AFTER I swam with them and discovered myself how horny they are (and no, I wasn't...they are that way toward everyone, male and female, most of the time!). The trainers got a big kick out of not warning me and then watching my reaction. Individually, they're pretty cool, but get several of them together, and watch out!!!

Six, anyone can post whatever they want here, and it's amusing that you, of all people, complain about the length of posts, given (with DT not here) you are pretty much the longest poster here as well as I. Personally, I'd prefer it if you DIDN'T read my posts, because when you do, you respond, and your responses are rarely anything Iwant to read, given they're mostly anger and bullshit. So please, be my guest in finding the length of my posts too much to bother with. I put stuff up for those who are interested; nobody needs to read them. I learn a lot from what others post, and learn almost as much from researching stuff to put up myself. Your reasons for being here are obviously different, and not reasons which would bring me here, so please, don't bother. I would appreciate it.


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Monday, June 18, 2012 5:43 AM

BYTEMITE


Eh, that kinda seems like a catch-22 to me. Seems to me like being able to get off a world might be an essential part of being able to clean up that world. In the very least, the resources available in space would make it kind of pointless to focus more and more damaging harvesting methods on scarcer resources here.

But, I do think we have the technology now to be minimal impact and that technology would probably be essential for the transit period anyway. Plus that kind of thing is important to people nowadays.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 10:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I can stick my thumb up a prostitute's ass.

Let's see a monkey or dolphin do that....





Clearly, chimps can do that, to a prostitute's, as well as their own bums.

Radio host Dennis Prager told a story, of something he observed chimps doing, at a zoo once. ( I think I've brought this up before, but maybe not ) There were a few chimps, sitting around, ( likely all males ) and were being 'entertained' by one chimp. Maybe he was the alpha, or not, but he seemed to be holding court. How ? He was ....umm, manipulating his finger in a manner which, when making noises out of his back end, he'd alter the sounds, to the enjoyment of the other chimps.

He was farting w/ his finger stuck up his bum, making funny sounds, as the other chimps 'laughed' at him.

Which is why I find, have always found, scatological humor to be tedious and lame, and think less of those who hoot and holler at fart jokes. I always see those folks to be just a bunch of chimps, sittin' in a zoo, unwilling to evolve.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't complain about the length of Your posts Niki, but the fact that you start all of your posts with a link and then the entire long drawn out story some tree hugging man hater wrote about.

If it makes you feel any better, it's usually the banana going up the prostitute's ass, and when it is actually my thumb, I use an over sized thimble, Nature's way of protecting these hard-working fingers from STD's.

As for my own genitalia... F-NO! It doesn't come close to a prostitute's body in any way.

32 and child and disease free.... proud to say!

The most important sexual organ any human has is their own brain. Having a fine looking 19-20 year old around makes the brain work overtime, but in the end there's not one single physical thing she can do to me that I can't do for myself in the end. There's a strictly "no touching" policy going on here on my end, which comedically makes them want to touch all the more.

It's silly how you can make a girl like that who never kisses her clients want to kiss you when you make it known from the start you don't even want to touch her, period, for her services.

They're so used to being in control...

God... I hate my life.........

Even the young, beautiful prostitutes I've been with end up being as compliant with me after only one hour as my ex-girlfriends were.

I think my experimentation with call girls is over.... fruitless as it has been.....

I'd totally jump on the Cougar train, but that would probably be even worse....


I feel no shame and embarassment to say it. I'm the best lover I've ever had. Any woman I've had relationships would admit to it under hypnosis....

95% of sex with me isn't even physical....

Touching and climaxing is just an afterthought....

And on many occasions, touching wasn't even involved.



Are human's unique?

I can't speak for all humans, but I'd say that some surely are.......




Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

we are the 'pinnacle' of all these traits.
Well said, KPO. I hadn't thought of it, but that's a fair statement.

Cave, I hope we DON'T make it off this rock, myownself, at least until (if) we clean up our act. No desire to see us ruin other pretty blue rocks.

Byte, I had to giggle. Porpoises and dolphins ARE the horniest animals I've ever met (perhaps next to some some species of monkeys ;o) ), in my opinion. When I worked at Marineworld, I learned that female trainers don't go in with the dolphins during their menses--of course, they told me that AFTER I swam with them and discovered myself how horny they are (and no, I wasn't...they are that way toward everyone, male and female, most of the time!). The trainers got a big kick out of not warning me and then watching my reaction. Individually, they're pretty cool, but get several of them together, and watch out!!!

Six, anyone can post whatever they want here, and it's amusing that you, of all people, complain about the length of posts, given (with DT not here) you are pretty much the longest poster here as well as I. Personally, I'd prefer it if you DIDN'T read my posts, because when you do, you respond, and your responses are rarely anything Iwant to read, given they're mostly anger and bullshit. So please, be my guest in finding the length of my posts too much to bother with. I put stuff up for those who are interested; nobody needs to read them. I learn a lot from what others post, and learn almost as much from researching stuff to put up myself. Your reasons for being here are obviously different, and not reasons which would bring me here, so please, don't bother. I would appreciate it.

]


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