REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The utter hysteria over Political Correctness, and the stupidity it fosters.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 16:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1651
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Emory President Extols 3/5 Compromise

Emory University president James Wagner is in hot water for the curious citation of the infamous 3/5 Compromise as an example of the virtues of compromise:

One instance of constitutional compromise was the agreement to count three-fifths of the slave population for purposes of state representation in Congress. Southern delegates wanted to count the whole slave population, which would have given the South greater influence over national policy. Northern delegates argued that slaves should not be counted at all, because they had no vote. As the price for achieving the ultimate aim of the Constitution—”to form a more perfect union”—the two sides compromised on this immediate issue of how to count slaves in the new nation. Pragmatic half-victories kept in view the higher aspiration of drawing the country more closely together.

Some might suggest that the constitutional compromise reached for the lowest common denominator—for the barest minimum value on which both sides could agree. I rather think something different happened. Both sides found a way to temper ideology and continue working toward the highest aspiration they both shared—the aspiration to form a more perfect union. They set their sights higher, not lower, in order to identify their common goal and keep moving toward it.


This is part of a short essay for Emory Magazine arguing that our national leaders and his own campus community needs to do a better job of working together to solve complex problems. Not surprisingly, the column has sparked outrage and protest:

A faculty group censured him last week for the remarks. And in a speech at Friday’s reception for the campus exhibition, “And the Struggle Continues: The Southern Christian Leadership Conference’s Fight for Social Change,” Dr. Wagner acknowledged both the nation’s continuing education in race relations and his own.
“I know that I personally have a long way to go,” he said.

His article has been seized upon by students and faculty members who say it was yet one more example of insensitivity from the Emory administration, which in September announced sweeping cuts that some say unfairly targeted programs that are popular with minorities.

About 45 students showed up to protest at the reception, silently holding signs that read “This is 5/5 outrageous” and “Shame on James” as the fight for racial equality was discussed by Dr. Wagner; Representative John Lewis of Georgia, a veteran of the civil rights movement; and leaders of the S.C.L.C.


http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/emory-president-extols-35-compromise/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How dare anyone get upset over the idea that counting blacks as 60% of "real" people was a good idea! [/sarcasm]



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How dare anyone get upset over the idea that counting blacks as 60% of "real" people was a good idea! [/sarcasm]




The issue was slaves, not blacks.

And they shouldn't have been counted at all.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:32 AM

BYTEMITE


Uh.

I guess you're taking your own advice in regards to political correctness then? Or at least the connective reflex between mouth, foot, and brain whereby we convince other people that we think before we speak to prevent misunderstanding.

It must be so freeing.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Uh.

I guess you're talking your own advice in regards to political correctness then? Or at least the connective reflex between mouth, foot, and brain whereby we convince other people that we think before we speak to prevent misunderstanding.

It must be so freeing.




How's about you bring that back to the thread at hand ?

Thanks.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:42 AM

BYTEMITE


No, I don't think I will. Instead, I'd like to talk to you all about lesbianism.

Lesbianism is the science, technology, and business involved in intensive lesbian cultivation for human use. It is practiced from the individual level in a garden up to the activities of a multinational corporation. It is very diverse in its activities, incorporating lesbians for food (fruits, vegetables, mushrooms, culinary herbs) and non-food crops (flowers, trees and shrubs, turf-grass, hops, medicinal herbs). It also includes related services in lesbian conservation, landscape restoration, landscape and garden design/construction/maintenance, lesbian therapy, and much more. This range of food, medicinal, environmental, and social products and services are all fundamental to developing and maintaining human health and well-being.

Lesbianists apply the knowledge, skills, and technologies used to grow intensively produced lesbians for human food and non-food uses and for personal or social needs. Their work involves lesbian propagation and cultivation with the aim of improving plant growth, yields, quality, nutritional value, and resistance to insects, diseases, and environmental stresses. They work as gardeners, growers, therapists, designers, and technical advisors in the food and non-food sectors of lesbianism.

Cites: http://www.wikihow.com/Think-Before-Speaking

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:44 AM

BYTEMITE


Also useful information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:44 AM

STORYMARK


A thread almost as silly as the one complaining about where Johnny Depp lives.

But as long as it pushes said thread off the front page, so rappy doesn't have to confront his own contradictory words...




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Are you completely off your nut ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
A thread almost as silly as the one complaining about where Johnny Depp lives.

But as long as it pushes said thread off the front page, so rappy doesn't have to confront his own contradictory words...




You're a perfect example of that stupidity to which I was referring.

Thanks.

However, do you care to actually respond to the thread issue ?

( I have a sense what you'll say, but felt like asking anyway )

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Are you completely off your nut ?




I'm in good company.

Perhaps I'll talk about African Americans now.

An African American is a mechanical or virtual artificial agent, usually an electro-mechanical machine that is guided by a computer program or electronic circuitry. African Americans can be autonomous, semi-autonomous or remotely controlled and range from humanoid, industrial, or nano-construction. By mimicking a lifelike appearance or automating movements, an African American may convey a sense of intelligence or thought of its own. The branch of technology that deals with African Americans is called ebonics.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Just a refresher, before the usual PC NAZIS try further to thread jack this topic, ...

Emory U President made a straight forward commentary about the art of compromise, and as an example, he brought up the issue of counting SLAVES as 3/5 of a citizen, to be used when determining proper representation in the new govt.

Nothing he said was false, derogatory, or in any way complementary to the institution of slavery, just that a compromise was reached.

Certain " professors " at the U then went ballistic, and protested, resulting in the President's ridiculous, self flagellating apology.

He had nothing to apologize for, yet did so anyway.

Thus, the PC zealots at this fine , expensive university get away with their own brand of thuggery.

Bravo.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:59 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


However, do you care to actually respond to the thread issue ?




Do I wish to respond to your inane plea for attention?

Why, I believe I already did. With all the consideration is deserved.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Are you completely off your nut ?




I'm in good company.

Perhaps I'll talk about African Americans now.

An African American is a mechanical or virtual artificial agent, usually an electro-mechanical machine that is guided by a computer program or electronic circuitry. African Americans can be autonomous, semi-autonomous or remotely controlled and range from humanoid, industrial, or nano-construction. By mimicking a lifelike appearance or automating movements, an African American may convey a sense of intelligence or thought of its own. The branch of technology that deals with African Americans is called ebonics.



More gibberish.

Pointless.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


However, do you care to actually respond to the thread issue ?




Do I wish to respond to your inane plea for attention?

Why, I believe I already did. With all the consideration is deserved.




Then every post on every message board is a " inane plea for attention ".

But in fact, all you did was display your colossal ignorance, once again.

Not that we needed to witness that again.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:04 PM

BYTEMITE


And what a compromise - it started a war later on, didn't it?

In your efforts to confront PC thuggery, you neglected to notice that the guy who apologized actually said something kinda phenomenally idiotic. In the very least it was a bad example for the point he was making. And then you went on to inadvertently say something that is just fuel for the flames.

Me? I'm just toasting marshmallows.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:08 PM

BYTEMITE


Frankly, I find it far more fascinating that whenever someone says something really dumb, people turn it into a thing and rally around political correctness or political incorrectness.

The only people who even give a fuck on either side are people who have an agenda. Political Correctness and Political Incorrectness are all yet another ridiculous right wing left wing wedge issue, and neither one is actually very supportive of free-speech. Two different groups thinking they're so victimized and marginalized, trying to control the discourse.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I said nothing inadvertent. Nor did the Emory U president.

There never would have been a union had the compromise not been reached, and no subsequent war between the States. The 'South' would have carried on, forming in some fashion, with slavery as a strong foundation for its economy. Who knows how long slavery would have endured, or the effects of its eventual collapse.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:19 PM

BYTEMITE


There was very nearly not a union BECAUSE the compromise was reached. And why is having a union even a good thing?

You don't even realize the implications of what you said, or maybe you do - either way it's completely hilarious.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:24 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


However, do you care to actually respond to the thread issue ?




Do I wish to respond to your inane plea for attention?

Why, I believe I already did. With all the consideration is deserved.




Then every post on every message board is a " inane plea for attention ".




From you, yes, we all learned this long ago. Which is why we have so much fun making fun of you. Id say I was proud of you for finally starting to realize this - but I know you don't actually grok a damned thing.

Keep 'em coming, though!




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
There was very nearly not a union BECAUSE the compromise was reached. And why is having a union even a good thing?

You don't even realize the implications of what you said, or maybe you do - either way it's completely hilarious.




I think it's you who fails to comprehend, not I.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
From you, yes, we all learned this long ago. Which is why we have so much fun making fun of you. Id say I was proud of you for finally starting to realize this - but I know you don't actually grok a damned thing.

Keep 'em coming, though!




Simpleton that you are, you missed where I said that every post on every message board by ME was an inane plea for attention.

Because I never said it. I was using YOUR twisted logic to show the error of your thinking.

Keep trying. Maybe you'll get it sometime.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:33 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I think it's you who fails to comprehend, not I.




Here you go.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How dare anyone get upset over the idea that counting blacks as 60% of "real" people was a good idea! [/sarcasm]



The issue was slaves, not blacks.

And they shouldn't have been counted at all.



No, nothing unintentionally said there that could be misinterpreted whatsoever.

Hint: You were responding to the idea of "counting blacks as 60% of "real" people".

As such what you said in context becomes "They (blacks) shouldn't have been counted (as "real" people") at all."

You're probably not a racist, but you really don't help disabuse people of the notion when you just toss stuff out there without considering how others might read it.

I hope that helps!


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Figured you'd take that bait.

The issue never was 'blacks', but slaves. A major distinction. There WERE free blacks living at the time. The term used, I believe, was 'slave', when discussing the issue of apportionment.

And this also falls into the stupidity that the PC thuggery fosters....

If you wanted to count SLAVES as full persons, even though they werne't true citizens, could not own property, or vote, then you were favoring the continuation for slavery.

If you wanted to count SLAVES as not being true citizens at all, for the above reasons, then you were for the ABOLITION of slavery.

Why ? Counting slaves as full members of the population would have given the South a larger power base when it came to the number of representatives in Congress.

The 3/5th discussion wasn't a commentary on the value or legitimacy of 'blacks' as humans, but more specifically, as SLAVES were to be counted in the census for the purpose of allotting seats.

I made no unintentional comments on this matter.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:52 PM

BYTEMITE


I know you meant slaves, you know you meant slaves, but in response to Kwicko you very poorly explained that and left yourself wide open. Possibly deliberately?

You'd think that as someone who feels like the PC thugs pick on you, you wouldn't leave so much "bait" around.

The South's intentions was to use the population numbers as a justification to up their number of representatives, representatives who would never represent slaves anyway. In their efforts they held the legislative process hostage and nearly prevented a union from forming. That's what the 3/5 compromise was about - and it was a terrible compromise that kicked the can down the road and directly lead to the bloodiest war in American history. Like I said, if the professor wanted to make an example about "necessary compromises" he chose a bad example.

You yourself even admitted that if the union never formed there wouldn't have been a civil war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I know you meant slaves, you know you meant slaves, but in response to Kwicko you very poorly explained that and left yourself wide open. Possibly deliberately?

You'd think that as someone who feels like the PC thugs pick on you, you wouldn't leave so much "bait" around.



I corrected Kwickie. He said 'blacks', not I. How did I leave myself open when it was HE who made the ( deliberate ? ) racist remark ?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:04 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

He said 'blacks', not I.


Most slaves in America at the time were black. I'm not even sure the practice of white indentured servants was common anymore at the time. So the constitution is pretty much referring to black slaves.

And that's not getting into interpreting your argument as SLAVES shouldn't have been counted as "real people" whether for the purposes of a vote or not, which is itself pretty questionable.

Though I admit Kwicko probably did bait you, just as you yourself have been deliberately baiting the thread.

But basically none of this thread even parses, and I'm just screwing around.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

He said 'blacks', not I.


Most slaves in America at the time were black. I'm not even sure the practice of white indentured servants was common anymore at the time. So the constitution is pretty much referring to black slaves.

And that's not getting into interpreting your argument as SLAVES shouldn't have been counted as "real people" whether for the purposes of a vote or not, which is itself pretty questionable.





This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say the thuggery of Political Correctness. You've been so brain washed , you can't get past the 'interpretation ' nonsense.

This was the world of the time. Not OUR world, nor how we'd WISH things were, but the actual reality these folks were living.

Doesn't matter that we don't approve, either. And they weren't idiots, despite what many revisionists or race baiters would have us believe. It was an impossible situation, and they had to come to some sort of workable agreement, or else there'd be no union.

And you give Kwickie too much credit if you think he had any thought that he was 'baiting' me.

He's just not that bright.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:26 PM

BYTEMITE


Huh. So whenever I say things that could unfortunately be misinterpreted, that's not my fault but the fault of the brainwashed people who are reading what I'm saying when I can't be bothered to make a specific interpretation clear.

Also I don't have to care about the context of what I say.

This is very useful, thanks. Especially as regards to my political correctness thuggery, which appears to involve inappropriately copy-pasting wikipedia entries for horticulture and robots and replacing key words with PC-groups. As a show of solidarity with your argument that some people shouldn't count as people for votes because counting them as people encourages slavery.

You know what wouldn't have supported slavery during the framing of the constitution? Not supporting slavery. Addressing the issue, instead of committing the golden mean fallacy and leaving future generations to resolve the problem.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:38 PM

BYTEMITE


I have another good word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farce

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

As a show of solidarity with your argument that some people shouldn't count as people for votes because it encourages slavery.




Encourages slavery ? Slavery was already a reality of the time. The issue was already moot.

This is about but what WAS done.

How would YOU have voted ? Slaves counted as 5/5 a person, giving the southern states more power ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The Emory U president had nothing to apologize for. He was right. That the PC nazis get so bent out of shape, to even give the appearance of acknowledging the significance of the 3/5 compromise, as an example in the concept of compromise, only shows how bat shit crazy they are. And how controlling they are , so quick to crack the whip of conformity at anyone who dares to step outside the lines.

Even a president at a left wing university isn't safe, and had better fall in line.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Encourages slavery ? Slavery was already a reality of the time. The issue was already moot.

This is about but what WAS done.

How would YOU have voted ? Slaves counted as 5/5 a person, giving the southern states more power ?



Bought the slaves and FREED THEM, thus offering compensation to the southern landowners while NOT PERPETUATING SLAVERY.

Sometimes the correct decision between two extreme positions ISN'T A COMPROMISE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_fallacy

The guy you're using to demonstrate "PC thuggery" actually made a very logically weak argument full of unfortunate implications, and the example he used wasn't even a good example for his point.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



You're projecting here, not facing up to the reality of the time. Nor are you answering the question.

The northern states were in no position to pay for the freedom of all the slaves.


And even if they could, the southern states weren't in a position to accept such a deal. Who'd work their fields? Newly freed slaves ? Unlikely.


But we agree on something, at least. Sometimes, there is no compromise between extreme positions.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:17 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Nor are you answering the question.


Because there's more than one answer to the problem, and focusing on the number of slaves who can be counted as "real people" is missing the point of the problem and doesn't even propose a FIX. It's a False Dilemma to ask me "would you support a 0/5 compromise, 3/5 compromise, or 5/5 compromise?" None of them are even viable solutions.

Quote:

The northern states were in no position to pay for the freedom of all the slaves.


They could still have set aside a statute for when the US economy picked up, and also outlawed the importation of new slaves, and levied a severe fine against people caught transporting slaves to help pay for freeing slaves. Like the British did in 1807. By 1833, Britain had raised enough money to abolish slavery completely and pay compensation for slave owners. Would have solved a lot of problems.

They also redesignated former slaves as apprentices, so that slaves would learn a craft before they were set loose on the job market and economy.

Quote:

And even if they could, the southern states weren't in a position to accept such a deal. Who'd work their fields? Newly freed slaves ? Unlikely.


Who exactly you think worked the fields AFTER slavery ended? Who folded laundry in the plantation homes, who cooked?

Only difference is, they got paid, and could move away, and could choose who to have a family with, and whether they stayed together. Which is infinitely better than what they had before.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


It wasn't a " false dilemma" in the least. THOSE were the options which were on the table.

Sure, you COULD have voted " free the slaves " , but your vote would have been a solitary one, or in the vast minority.

There was no 'US' economy, or much of one to speak of, as the govt was still being formed, and there was still the matter of paying back the debt to nations for helping us out in the war w/ England, as I understand. And they COULD have outlawed slavery, but the Southern states didn't want to.

There WAS such a thing as the Reconstruction era, after the war between the states. It took losing badly in a costly war for folks to return to the land, and try to grow what they could, as best as they could manage. Try telling a plantation owner in the pre-war South that today he's got slaves working his field, but tomorrow, they'll be free , and happy to carry on, just as they had before, but now he has to pay them. And that's not taking into account for the entire cultural shift which had to occur too.

It wasn't that simple, and the Founders knew that all too well.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

It wasn't a " false dilemma" in the least. THOSE were the options which were on the table.


But not the only options, just the options that the people at the time thought of, even though other options could have been viable. Hence false dilemma.

And it was that simple for Britain.

The debts were a non-issue back then anyway, because France fell to revolution. Granted, we didn't know that at the time, but there really was nothing from stopping the people writing the constitution from agreeing to keep slavery legal for a time, offering to compensate slave owners for freed slaves, and then making the importation of further slaves or neglect/mistreatment/brutality against slaves illegal to pay for that service.

And frankly, plantation work wasn't always economically stable, so some slave owners might have been fully willing to "liquidate assets" with compensation. You don't have to do it all at once, you can do it gradually.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:08 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


The example as a praise of compromise in US history may seem valid on the surface. But when you think on it a little more its an example of how something like that and the compromise reached related thereto doesn't really work well in the long run, thus not being an example of _effective compromise.

Political correctness: Its one of those things that I can see both ends of. On one hand you want people to treat you with respect, every human being wants that, so political correctness as a leaping off point for encouraging respect makes some amount of sense. But on the other hand talk about a pain in the butt, fancy terms for everything and you get treated meanly if you use the wrong term. Its gone a bit too far. The motivation of encouraging respect is a good one, but the execution of political correctness and all its ups, downs, pit falls and toe catches is tiresome and so despite its good intentions I have to shake my head and shrug, it can get in the way of meaningful discourse and create more problems than its worth. So I'd say that beyond its good intentions its gotten silly and dumb, which ultimately detracts from the initial good intentions.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The POINT being missed here is on the misconception of the 3/5th compromise. Full representation, in this context, would have actually made things worse for the slaves.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Then every post on every message board is a " inane plea for attention ".

But in fact, all you did was display your colossal ignorance, once again.




Anyone else see the irony in this response? Does anyone else see the ignorance on display by Rappy yet again?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

You're projecting here, not facing up to the reality of the time. Nor are you answering the question.

The northern states were in no position to pay for the freedom of all the slaves.


And even if they could, the southern states weren't in a position to accept such a deal. Who'd work their fields? Newly freed slaves ? Unlikely.


But we agree on something, at least. Sometimes, there is no compromise between extreme positions.





So you seem to be saying that if the Emory prof was going to use this as an example, he should use it as an example of what a BAD compromise can lead to.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Thread of Trump Appointments / Other Changes of Scenery...
Thu, November 21, 2024 22:03 - 40 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, November 21, 2024 22:03 - 4787 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, November 21, 2024 22:01 - 7476 posts
1000 Asylum-seekers grope, rape, and steal in Cologne, Germany
Thu, November 21, 2024 21:46 - 53 posts
Music II
Thu, November 21, 2024 21:43 - 117 posts
Lying Piece of Shit is going to start WWIII
Thu, November 21, 2024 20:56 - 17 posts
Are we in WWIII yet?
Thu, November 21, 2024 20:31 - 18 posts
More Cope: "Donald Trump Has Not Won a Majority of the Votes Cast for President"
Thu, November 21, 2024 19:40 - 7 posts
Biden admin quietly loosening immigration policies before Trump takes office — including letting migrants skip ICE check-ins in NYC
Thu, November 21, 2024 18:18 - 2 posts
All things Space
Thu, November 21, 2024 18:11 - 267 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, November 21, 2024 17:56 - 4749 posts
Hip-Hop Artist Lauryn Hill Blames Slavery for Tax Evasion
Thu, November 21, 2024 16:36 - 12 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL