REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Opinion: "Syria peace less likely if we attack"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, September 5, 2013 21:07
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Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Found this interesting. I am not advocating pro or con for the opinion, simply sharing it. I do, nonetheless, think he makes some good points.
Quote:

President Barack Obama faces a terrible choice in the coming days. It is whether to kill a number of Syrians who had nothing to do with a poison-gas massacre to show President Bashar al-Assad, who presumably did have something to do with it, that using chemicals weapons violates an international norm.

Few would doubt the importance of international agreements to regulate war, particularly those that safeguard the rights of citizens, such as bans on chemical weapons and torture. If al-Assad is responsible for the use of chemical weapons, he had full knowledge of the norms he was violating.

By way of comparison, President George W. Bush chose a policy that allowed torture in interrogations with full knowledge that it was outlawed by agreements to which the United States was a signatory. He made a strategic choice in the face of a threat to national security. Both are abhorrent actions on the part of national leaders, both taken for fundamentally the same reasons.

An attack on the Syrian military by the United States would send a message to al-Assad, but it is not clear if Obama has any strategic objective beyond that. Whether he has such a plan or not, any U.S. attack will have implications for the civil war, no matter how much Obama says otherwise.

If the United States launches missiles into Syria, those cheering the loudest will be the Syrian rebels. The United States will be intervening in the Syrian civil war on behalf of the rebels. A significant amount of research, including my own, demonstrates that military interventions from outside states lengthen and make bloodier civil wars. Much of this evidence is the result of statistical modeling of all civil wars and any associated interventions. The data include roughly 1,000 interventions into 100 civil wars over the last 60 years, with research carried out by multiple research teams.

The results point to patterns in what happens when states intervene to try to help their preferred actor, and the results are strong and consistent that interventions rarely work to promote peace or reduce violence. For example, my own research has shown that the likelihood of a civil war lasting for four years without an intervention is 37%, but if there is an intervention the likelihood that it lasts for four years is 60%. The intervention accounts for the 50% increase in the length of the war.

Even if a U.S. missile strike reflects inadvertent help for the rebels, history does not point to a good outcome for U.S. policy.

The only pathway by which external interventions consistently make for shorter or less bloody wars is through diplomatic efforts to broker a peace agreement. The same modeling evidence suggests that the war in Angola, 1975-1991, could have been shortened by nearly 10 years with well-timed diplomatic interventions.

From this perspective, a missile strike will only move the situation further from peace. Sometimes the difficulty for warring parties to come to a negotiating table is tied up in information that is held private, the very thing that mediators can manage. So why not engage in serious diplomacy?

The United States has two stated policies, at least beyond the immediate question of punitive bombing in response to the chemical attacks. The first is to aid the Syrian opposition in its fight against the Assad regime; the second is to help broker a negotiated settlement.

The second goal makes sense; the first is fraught with difficulties. Two aspects of the negotiated route pose a problem for the United States. First, the official U.S. policy is that al-Assad must go. Both former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of State John Kerry have made these claims. Second, the rebels have steadfastly refused to negotiate. The only policy on the table is to kill more Syrians to show the Syrian leaders that killing Syrians is wrong. In this regard, U.S. policies are inconsistent with past behavior, empirical evidence and logic. http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/05/opinion/regan-intervening-in-civil-wars/
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Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:15 PM

WHOZIT


Don't you libs worry, the evil Congress will give Barry to OK to bomb Syria, but he'll take another walk around the White House and decide it would be unwise to push the button. Then everyone at MSNBC will say he's brilliant and has a big dick

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:32 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Do you ever, EVER, have anything of substance to contribute at all? Or do you just sit there slathering in front of the screen in your basement, cackling while you punch out idiocy after idiocy?

(/rhetorical question)

You truly are a zit on the face of this forum, and nothing else. Very sad.


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Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:28 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


saw that over on CNN.com. I do suspect that ANY limited response will be worthless. Worst case, Assad 'n them will hunker down, take their lumps for 90 days, then gas some more folks.

But how can there be a negotiated settlement? What can we offer Assad that he'll take-- "You give up, we'll let you just walk away into exile somewhere?" Or what can we offer the rebels--"You guys (dozens of groups of you) ALL give up, leave Assad in place, wait till next year when he tries to wipe you out again?" Or "I know, we'll split the baby in two. You can each have half of the country, half of the oil money, just shake hands and make nice." That one will play well- NOT!

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:51 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Do you ever, EVER, have anything of substance to contribute at all? Or do you just sit there slathering in front of the screen in your basement, cackling while you punch out idiocy after idiocy?

(/rhetorical question)

You truly are a zit on the face of this forum, and nothing else. Very sad.




Boy are you silly! I'm typing this in the livingroom of my tiny 1 bedroom apartment.

While I'm sitting here watching a rerun of "The Big Bang Theory" I was thinking that maybe Barry wants the Congress to vote against war to bail out his skinny ass. After he comes up with an excuse not to bomb Syria his whores in the MSM will change the subject back to immigration reform.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Do you ever, EVER, have anything of substance to contribute at all? Or do you just sit there slathering in front of the screen in your basement, cackling while you punch out idiocy after idiocy?

(/rhetorical question)

You truly are a zit on the face of this forum, and nothing else. Very sad.




Boy are you silly! I'm typing this in the livingroom of my tiny 1 bedroom apartment.

While I'm sitting here watching a rerun of "The Big Bang Theory" I was thinking that maybe Barry wants the Congress to vote against war to bail out his skinny ass. After he comes up with an excuse not to bomb Syria his whores in the MSM will change the subject back to immigration reform.



Professor Proton ???

Excellent episode!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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