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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Remember All Those Obamacare Horror Stories? Not Looking So Bad Now
Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:35 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:In the absence of facts, conservative media just made things up to fit their narrative. Statisticians dismiss the practice of using personal stories to argue about an objective reality as "anecdata", but it might be more accurate to call the "Obamacare horror stories" that have taken over social media "urban legends". There are urban legends about a lot of things – from spiders in hairdos to red velvet cake. Some are funny, some feature a satisfying come-uppance, but folklorists agree that the stickiest of them, the ones that last for generations and resist debunking are the ones that live off ignorance and feed off fear. As one researcher put it: It's a lack of information coupled with these fears that tends to give rise to new legends. When demand exceeds supply, people will fill in the gaps with their own information … they'll just make it up. I can't think of a better description of the conservative media ecosystem at the moment. The failure of the exchanges created an information vacuum as far as Obamacare successes went; in rushed the individual stories of those who claimed to have been hurt by the changes to the market. It didn't matter that these stories are, even without enrollment numbers from the exchanges, demonstrably unrepresentative! Only a fraction of Americans, 5%, even have the kind of policies that could have been cancelled – these were the people who could claim to have been "lied to"… or worse. Their stories became part of an Obamacare horror story canon. There is the one about Ashley Dionne, who claimed that Obamacare "raped" her generation: I have asthma, ulcers, and mild cerebral palsy. Obamacare takes my monthly rate from $75 a month for full coverage on my "Young Adult Plan" to $319 a month. After $6,000 in deductibles, of course. It turned out that her own Tumblr post contained evidence that she would be eligible for a low-cost, "silver" plan for $22.17 per month, with out-of-pocket spending capped at $2,250. (Also, with her medical conditions, it's hard to believe that she ever found a company to cover her pre-ACA.) What about Jessica Sanford, who went from being an Obama voter name-checked as a success story – going from uninsured to covered – by the president himself to complaining on Facebook that she got "screwed"? CNN got the exclusive. She had thought, due to a state exchange error, that she and her son were eligible for a policy that cost only $169 per month. When Washington state made the correction, she claimed that the cheapest plan she could find was $324 per month and that she would have to just go without insurance, instead paying the monthly $95 penalty. Except that makes no sense at all, because Sanford told CNN that her son has ADHD: that makes him eligible for Medicaid coverage at $30. Okay, she needs to get her own policy, and can't count her son as a dependent. She said she's 48 and her salary was "a little less than $50,000", which makes her eligible for a "bronze" Washington exchange plan at $237 per month. Granted, $267 to cover the family is a lot more expensive than $169 … but Sanford also said that her son's condition meant they previously spent $250 per month on medication alone, plus "regular doctor visits" – both of which Medicaid will fully cover. So the Sanford family could go from spending $250 per month on her son's medication alone (plus some unknown some for doctors) to spending just $17 more for a coverage that for her would meet the ACA's minimum standards and mean premium coverage for her son. It's her right to do what she wants with her money, but what's scary about this story is her apparent lack of concern for her own health. Then there's the cancer patient who in the Wall Street Journal blamedObama for the loss of her insurance plan that she "liked" and wanted to keep? Her insurance company made the decision to kick her off last May. It is true that she will be losing access to the range of specialists she had under that plan, but she will be able to get a plan if she wants one – other companies can't deny her because of a pre-existing condition – and it will be cheaper. I would find the prospect of not being able to get insurance at all, which was the plight of many cancer patients prior to the ACA, much more horrifying. Which reminds me of Bill Elliott, who told Fox News that he was going to choose to forego cancer treatment and "let nature take its course" rather than pay for the $1,500 per month plan his "insurance guy" offered to him under Obamacare. Another Obama voter, too! But … in in his state, South Carolina, the most expensive plan on the market for someone over 50 (a guesstimate by one fact-checker) is $768 a month. If Elliott is five years younger, it's just $440. He also said his "guy" told him that the $1,500 per month plan wouldn't pay for pharmaceuticals or medical devices – something even the most ardent Obamacare critic must realize is illegal under that law. That's one of the things they don't like about it! Perhaps the real conclusion here is that Elliott needs to fire "his guy". Still, $440 is a lot more than the $170 per month he said he had been paying. So conservatives celebrated when it turned out a local attorney was able to find a sympathetic ear (Tea Party fav South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley) for the argument that Elliot's original insurer was breaking a law older than Obamacare – HIPAA – by cancelling his insurance. The funny thing is that the 1990s law that seems to have allowed Elliott to get his coverage back is the kind of must-cover mandate they also don't like about the ACA. The mechanisms Elliott's lawyer, Steven Tucker, says he's using are sketchy-sounding? His argument sounds a lot like " one weird trick" ads, what with his repeated mention of "Using public law 104-191 section 2742" and frequent urging of others to do the same. But I'm glad Elliot is going to fight the good fight against cancer. (This week, Elliott and Tucker say they're being audited by the IRS in retaliation for, well, it's either the negative publicity they gave the ACA – in which case why them? – or, I dunno … maybe there's more to the story?) And we're not done yet. Maybe you heard about the Arizona leukemia patient who was angry that he could no longer use his $855 per month policy and said he'd have to pay $26,000 beyond his wife's policy to continue seeing his preferred doctors …. That story went viral. The follow-up, in which he found a cheaper plan that included his doctor and reduced his overall out-of-pocket costs, did not receive as much attention. There's nothing new about the general practice of using cherry-picked outcries in lieu of data. Inflammatory personal testimony has been a staple of not just bad journalism but bad debating since humans first started arguing with each other. ("Don't eat from the tree of knowledge? Let's hear from one expert who says you should!") But social media has its own set of biases and limitations that make it an especially fertile ground for the context-free compelling individual narrative, not the least of which is the fact that "social media" is still a thing that "the media" considers separate from itself. That distinction is thin, considering how much traditional outlets have allowed themselves to get caught up in the pace of those less demanding mediums. CNN wants to move at the pace of @cnn, so they (and other outlets) wind up reporting on TV and in slightly longer form stories that are not much more than pass-along tips. They get to report on something "going viral" without weighing in on whether it's true or not. The Ashley Dionne story is an especially head-to-desk-thumping example: CBS, Yahoo, and Mediaite reported on the story's viralness, they did not take the time to point out the holes evident from Dionne's own report. Dionne, Elliott, and Sanford all proactively put their stories out on social media – Dionne on Tumblr, and the latter two on Facebook. That a bogus story spreads on social media isn't mainstream media's fault; social media is practically designed to spread bogus stories. The limitations of the medium are obvious – not just in the literal limitation of a Twitter character count, but in the looseness of the connection between a story and its original source in almost every social media form. People don't expect to be given context, or links to further, possibly complicating, information. And if the context or source material is provided? The chances are pretty good no one reads it anyway. That bias – or explicit opinions – plays a role in what attracts the most "sharing" is actually quantifiable, though unsurprising: One statistical analysis of traditional news outlets' content versus what goes "viral" on social media has shown that stories that go viral tend to contain both highly-opinionated language and focus on "niche" topics. Obviously, the Obama horror stories slide neatly into the space the researchers describe: that they became the focus of national attention is beside the point to those that shared them. Conservatives believe the stories are not covered enough. As for "highly opinionated" language – both Dionne and Elliott illustrate a willingness to go to rhetorical extremes. The researchers did not think to figure "fear" into their research, though at this point the parallel between what a viral personal narrative and an urban legend is exact enough that we can almost use the terms interchangeably. One of them is easier to fact-check than the other, neither get fact-checked that often. It's not the fear of death that propels these modern urban legends; it's fear of change. The through line that connects all of the Obamacare legends is the sense of powerlessness that's also the tenuous thread binding together a fracturing GOP. http://www.alternet.org/media/remember-all-those-obamacare-horror-stories-not-looking-so-bad-now
Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:51 AM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:56 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:39 PM
JONGSSTRAW
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Not unlike Jews going on "vacation" all packed into rail cars. It'll be good for them, really !
Friday, December 6, 2013 9:09 AM
Friday, December 6, 2013 11:30 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: The self induced denial here, is really something to behold. Not unlike Jews going on "vacation" all packed into rail cars. It'll be good for them, really !
Friday, December 6, 2013 11:42 AM
WHOZIT
Friday, December 6, 2013 12:22 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Friday, December 6, 2013 12:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Oh, these stories are like "Joe the plumber" who was neither "Joe" nor a plumber. The reichwing is famous for them. I think as people pick through the details of their own personal situation, more and more people will... shut up. The biggest problem with Obamacare (aside from the rollout, which was a horror show) is that it is basically a money-train which runs from the government to the insurances, just like Medicare Part D. Where do you think the subsidies and expanded Medicare money go to? In addition, it is wildly complicated; a lot of these horror stories are of people who got bad information, or didn't realize they had other (better/ cheaper) options. They were only rescued from their bad information when their stories went public.... and how many people out there are still flailing around, not being able to find THE option that get them what they need at the lowest possible cost? I know a lot of people out there who could really use the insurance, and these are exactly the people who know the least and have the fewest mental and emotional resources to find their way thru the woods. Single payer - an expansion of Medicare to cover everyone, and improvement of the Medicare payout system- would have been far better than what we have now. But the insurances NEVER would have allowed it, just as the pharmas would never have allowed the government to use its purchasing power to control costs under Medicare Part D. So here we are: stuck in the middle of the road, along with a yellow line and dead armadillos.
Friday, December 6, 2013 12:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM.
Friday, December 6, 2013 12:52 PM
Friday, December 6, 2013 12:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM. Yes all that's true, but since when did that matter on election day? And once again the false media prophets of political wisdom are floating their banal predictions of Republican success next year. I wouldn't believe a word they say or any of their "numbers" even if they were offered on a golden fleece laid across Kim Kardashian's big butt.
Friday, December 6, 2013 1:06 PM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Dems are in trouble and they know it.
Friday, December 6, 2013 1:09 PM
Friday, December 6, 2013 1:19 PM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM. Yes all that's true, but since when did that matter on election day? And once again the false media prophets of political wisdom are floating their banal predictions of Republican success next year. I wouldn't believe a word they say or any of their "numbers" even if they were offered on a golden fleece laid across Kim Kardashian's big butt. The up side is that the Repulicans hands are clean, as Barrycare does more damage who'll be blamed next year? Barry isn't running anymore and the people will have to punish someone. 2010 was a blood bath for the Dems because of how Barrycare was passed, 2014 will likely be a blood bath because of the mess it's made. Barry isn't the rock star he was in 08, his approval ratings are in the 30's and will likely stay there. The Dems are in trouble and they know it.
Friday, December 6, 2013 2:53 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM. Yes all that's true, but since when did that matter on election day? And once again the false media prophets of political wisdom are floating their banal predictions of Republican success next year. I wouldn't believe a word they say or any of their "numbers" even if they were offered on a golden fleece laid across Kim Kardashian's big butt. The up side is that the Repulicans hands are clean, as Barrycare does more damage who'll be blamed next year? Barry isn't running anymore and the people will have to punish someone. 2010 was a blood bath for the Dems because of how Barrycare was passed, 2014 will likely be a blood bath because of the mess it's made. Barry isn't the rock star he was in 08, his approval ratings are in the 30's and will likely stay there. The Dems are in trouble and they know it. Glad for you that your crystal ball is sparklin' so bright for the Republicans in 2014. You may be right, but a lot can happen in the next 11 months. But let's say Republicans keep the House and win the Senate ... so what? ... what are they gonna do with it?
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:10 PM
Quote:The GOP has had to deal with reporters asking them questions lately of whether or not they actually have a true alternative to the ACA. It has basically left them tripping over themselves and pivoting back to talking points about how Obamacare is bad or just ignoring the questions altogether. Obviously, Fox News felt the need to assist their Republican brethren. What they found was a crappy article written at the Examiner (a noted conservative tabloid rag) pushing Price’s press release. Well, obviously this needed to be run, and with a catchy title to boot: Republicans Have an Alternative to ObamaCare, and It Could Save $2.34 TRILLION. The fact is, Price’s alternative plan has been floating around Congress for over four years, since he first introduced it in July 2009. His plan is the same today as it was then. When the non-partisan groups initially ran the numbers on his plan it was estimated to actually cost the government $100 billion, since there would be an increase in actual spending but no offsetting tax or revenue increases. When looking at Price’s bill, it is based mostly on market-based assumptions and hoping that more employers will cover their employees than today due to automatic enrollment in existing employer provided plans. Much more at http://www.politicususa.com/2013/12/05/fox-hypes-new-republican-alternative-obamacare-years.html
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM. Yes all that's true, but since when did that matter on election day? And once again the false media prophets of political wisdom are floating their banal predictions of Republican success next year. I wouldn't believe a word they say or any of their "numbers" even if they were offered on a golden fleece laid across Kim Kardashian's big butt. The up side is that the Repulicans hands are clean, as Barrycare does more damage who'll be blamed next year? Barry isn't running anymore and the people will have to punish someone. 2010 was a blood bath for the Dems because of how Barrycare was passed, 2014 will likely be a blood bath because of the mess it's made. Barry isn't the rock star he was in 08, his approval ratings are in the 30's and will likely stay there. The Dems are in trouble and they know it. Glad for you that your crystal ball is sparklin' so bright for the Republicans in 2014. You may be right, but a lot can happen in the next 11 months. But let's say Republicans keep the House and win the Senate ... so what? ... what are they gonna do with it? Stop funding Barrycare, all they have to do is stop feeding this monster. If they have both the house and senate (They'll likely keep the house) then they may have the balls to defund it.
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: ZIT: When I was little, my parents told me that Intelligent people talk about ideas Average people talk about events, and Stupid people talk about other people. You, Zit, are a stupid person. All you can talk about are the Dems and the Repubs- who's "winning" and who's "losing". The concept of what is good for the American people- whether or not we've clearly identified our goals, have developed sound policy to meet those goals, and are following up to see whether or not we're heading in the direction we intended- just never makes it thru, does it? Nah.... of course not. How could it? You've got your head buried up your ass!
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:40 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: The Democrats are like used car salesmen and Obamacare is like a repainted taxi, they're telling us this clunker is a creampuff. As Barrycare gets worse, they'll tell us it's fine or getting better. Even their whores in the press (except MSNBC) arn't buying it anymore. Barry's approval ratings are in the 30's because no one belives him, the Democrats, and their whores in the MSM. Yes all that's true, but since when did that matter on election day? And once again the false media prophets of political wisdom are floating their banal predictions of Republican success next year. I wouldn't believe a word they say or any of their "numbers" even if they were offered on a golden fleece laid across Kim Kardashian's big butt. The up side is that the Repulicans hands are clean, as Barrycare does more damage who'll be blamed next year? Barry isn't running anymore and the people will have to punish someone. 2010 was a blood bath for the Dems because of how Barrycare was passed, 2014 will likely be a blood bath because of the mess it's made. Barry isn't the rock star he was in 08, his approval ratings are in the 30's and will likely stay there. The Dems are in trouble and they know it. Glad for you that your crystal ball is sparklin' so bright for the Republicans in 2014. You may be right, but a lot can happen in the next 11 months. But let's say Republicans keep the House and win the Senate ... so what? ... what are they gonna do with it? Stop funding Barrycare, all they have to do is stop feeding this monster. If they have both the house and senate (They'll likely keep the house) then they may have the balls to defund it. Republicans took the House in 2010 with a mandate to do that, but they didn't. Obama got his $1 billion dollars to build the crappy website with a no-bid contract using a political campaign donor; Obama got his millions for the IRS to hire 15,000 new Obamacare enforcers; Obama got his millions for Obamacare navigators; Obama got his millions for Obamacare promotion; and Obama got billions for Obamacare to guarantee insurance company profits. Republicans completely worked against the Tea Party, and they abandoned the reason they got the majority in the first place. All the Tea Party victories in 2010 did was to give Boehner a few extra golf outings with Obama. Explain all that to me before I'll ever even bother to vote again.
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:49 PM
Quote:The MSM are the ones who care about the "horse race", who's "winning"
Quote:I may not be as smart as you but I'm not stupid, I don't have to be a big brain like you to know that I'll be paying more for my bennys next year, my company told me that.
Quote: YOU got what YOU voted for, please spare me
Friday, December 6, 2013 4:52 PM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Um...because where I vote they give out FREE donuts? I don't know what they give out where you are. Would you go to the polling place for a free donut?
Friday, December 6, 2013 5:34 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: Um...because where I vote they give out FREE donuts? I don't know what they give out where you are. Would you go to the polling place for a free donut? I live in Weston, Florida, aka Debbie Wasserman-Schultz central. When you vote here they give you free bagels with cream cheese and lox along with a big cup of Kool-Aid to wash it down.
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