So, what do you think of this ... ? by 1kiki

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

So, what do you think of this ... ?

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, June 19, 2014 21:23
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Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:39 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is back from 2009, this particular quote comes from the NYTimes, but references are everywhere, even WIKI: "While each side blamed the other for the scope of the latest drop in gas shipments, Russia’s prime minister, Vladimir V. Putin, had personally announced Monday evening on state television that he was ordering a sharp reduction in gas flows, saying Ukraine was siphoning gas from the pipelines without paying."

Now, there are all sorts of examples that come up on explosions due to local siphoning oil out of pipelines - in China, Nigeria (2006 and 2014), and Mexico.

And a natural gas pipeline exploded in the Ukraine within weeks of the country being put on a pay-as-you-go plan.

I wonder if the Ukraine was trying to siphon natural gas out of a pipeline and blew it up?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:37 AM

BYTEMITE

It's also possible this is part of standard operating procedure to reduce supply and drive prices up. Happens in the US with clockwork precision.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:44 AM

THGRRI

I think they are trying to show Putin he holds less cards then he thinks. The price of running pipelines through the Ukraine has just gone up.

si shen

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:01 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I wonder if the Ukraine was trying to siphon natural gas out of a pipeline and blew it up?

It's entirely possible, and it's not a problem unique to Ukraine. I was in Georgia in 2005-2006 and it was a topic of discussion. I wonder if it happens in AK. I recall talking about a bad pipeline "accident" that happened there - some asshole blew up a junction as a way of protesting oil production.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:07 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I wonder if it happens in AK. I recall talking about a bad pipeline "accident" that happened there - some asshole blew up a junction as a way of protesting oil production.

My initial guess would be that's a false flag and he was actually an oil company stooge. Drives up prices AND wins over some popular support.

Otherwise the idiot was an "environmentalist" who thinks blowing up a pipeline and spilling thousands of gallons of oil in a particular spot of wilderness is somehow "plant, animal, and environment friendly." And I frankly find it hard to believe anyone could be THAT dumb and self-defeating. So, back to the first option.

We've had several pipeline breaks in Utah with perfect drill shaped holes consistently in the spring over the past few years, "accidental" refinery fires are also common causes of price jacking.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Otherwise the idiot was an "environmentalist" who thinks blowing up a pipeline and spilling thousands of gallons of oil in a particular spot of wilderness is somehow "plant, animal, and environment friendly." And I frankly find it hard to believe anyone could be THAT dumb and self-defeating.

Back in the days of yore when I was still just a callow young rookie working for Eagle/A-1 Services Ltd, apparently they had a contract to do security for one of the companies maintaining pipelines in Alaska, but had trouble getting anyone to service it cause the conditions were rough, the travel extreme and apparently the money was shit.

Soo... the owners half-brother went up there, took a translator with him to a nearby village and then showed them some really graphic and gruesome photos of what a pipeline break or explosion would mean for their community, after which he pitched the job to them, and had no trouble whatsoever getting enough applicants.
Of course, the language barrier might have been a problem, but once it was made clear to them what the proper authorization badge looked like, I don't think anyone had much of a problem with them doing whatever to anyone who DIDN'T have one coming near that pipeline.

As far as I understand, which isn't very as I've all but lost contact with any of the old guard still alive, a LOT of petrol product security is STILL done by either folks with a vested interest in the job (as in living downrange of potential problems) or begrudging environmentalist types who might not like the idea of pipelines, but hate the idea of a spill even worse.

I too am a bit suspicious here, but for a different reason, given the hard-on the fucking Neocons have for destabilizing the situation cause they wanna provoke a "limited nuclear exchange", compounded by the fact that the alphabet goons are completely on-board with the idea.(1)
AND because I knew about THIS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_pipeline_sabotage

In fact cause of that I always kinda wondered how "accidental" the events at Chernobyl really were, and look a bit sideways at other "industrial accidents" as well, even more appalling in light of their pet bug Stuxnet getting loose - just how much sabotaged stuff is out there, and how many innocent lives lost due to these shenanigans ?
And yes, it's entirely possible to cause an explosion by remote via hacking the systems, provided the perp knows what they're doing, so there's that, too.

-Frem
(1) - Yes, they really think they can ride that tiger and control it once it gets cut loose, but I've always known they're as moronic as they are insane.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 4:29 PM

BYTEMITE

Hmm, okay, that does make more sense.

The cover story of an environmentalist blowing the thing definitely doesn't, so I think we can agree on that.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 4:41 PM

MAL4PREZ

The first incident occurred in the Steele Creek area less than 25 miles north of Fairbanks on Feb. 15, 1978, just eight months after pipeline startup. Vandals planted explosives that blew a hole in the line, causing some 16,000 barrels of crude to spill before workers were able to stop the oil flow and make repairs.

http://www.petroleumnews.com/pntruncate/313093189.shtml

I know it's comforting to blame The Man for everything, but there are idiots and there evil people everywhere, including the non-Man. The Man, whether it be govt or industry or what have you, is for the most part really people just going about their lives. Just like us. The problem is, the instances of evil-ness that happen there have bigger, more spectacular results.

By which I mean that the AK incident was in no way done by industry people. That's kind of ridiculous. The pipeline was just finished, it was working, why in the world would industry people blow it up and get all that bad PR?

Frem, similarly - are you seriously suggesting that Chernobyl was purposely done? Really?

*facepalm*

You have so many good ideas, but you won't taken seriously when you go all out with this kind of conspiracy theory.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Frem, similarly - are you seriously suggesting that Chernobyl was purposely done? Really?

No, I said I wondered - primarily cause we DID sell a fuckton of sabotaged infrastructure stuff in such a way that it would wind up in their hands, and it's not in any way beyond the pale to question the possibility that some of the equipment failures involved might have some relation.
You sell a lot of deliberately broken shit on the world market, it's gonna wind up in a lot of places isn't it ?

Quote:
You have so many good ideas, but you won't taken seriously when you go all out with this kind of conspiracy theory.

You mean like....
Everything related to the Hellcamps.
The three other explosive devices recovered from INSIDE THE BUILDING at Oklahoma City.
That the FBI *gave* Ramzi Youssef that bomb in 1993.
The fact that was indeed "our" Anthrax from Ft Detrick in those envelopes.
Gardasil was unsafe and ineffective.
That the spying on students in Lower Merion was much more widespread and pervasive than admitted.
That there really was a widescale surveillence dragnet, and much american software really was backdoored.
That some of those supposed Al Qaeda "leaders" they claimed to be offing never actually existed. (See Also: Abdullah Rashid al-Baghdadi)
That intervening in Libya would be a complete fucking disaster.
That police dogs were trick ponies and nowhere near as accurate as claimed.

"Conspiracy Theories" like those, you mean ?
(and those are just the ones discussed specifically here, on this board, and not even close to all of em)
Tis one thing to be dismissed out of hand by Joe Random Sixpack, but ye gods, how damn many times does it take before someone might think to consider the history before doing so ?
PROTip: If I wonder/suspect, I prolly *DO* have reason to do so.

Just please, please, please, do me one goddamn favor, and don't do what everyone else does - if this comes back to bite us in a nasty way (say petroleum/gas costs) for the love of crying mercy don't get angry at me while demanding advice on stuff that out of hand dismissal shit tends to enable... cause my temper these days just couldn't take it and I might get verbally unpleasant about it.

-Frem

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