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The Hill: Democrats and the lemmings of the left

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 11, 2024 23:52
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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 5:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/5024347-democratic-left-stampede-
trump
/

Quote:

After suffering a hard defeat, Democrats are now intent on taking a hard left. If history is any indication, expect them to continue. Simply put, Democrats no longer have enough non-extremists to stop their stampede by the lemmings of the left.

The depth of Democrats’ debacle is easily measured but still difficult to fathom. Trump gained popular vote share — for a third straight presidential election. He became the first Republican to beat a Democrat in the presidential popular vote in 20 years.

In contrast, Harris lost ground to Biden’s 2020 percentage-vote performance in all states but one (Utah) and even in the District of Columbia. As a result, Trump trounced Harris in the Electoral College, 312-226.

Yet staring into this canyon, according to a recent Emerson poll, Harris still leads 2028 Democratic presidential contenders. California Gov. Gavin Newsom placed second. It is tempting to chalk this up to a popularity contest — though Harris’ disastrous campaign makes her popularity hard to imagine — until you look at the other numerous examples of Democrats’ leftward lunge.

...

The Democratic Party is sacrificing its middle. Its far-left infestation drives out the non-extremists it encounters. The far left doesn’t care because they win regardless. Either they win absolutely and their policies advance, or they win relatively, because it is the less-extreme members of the Democratic Party who disproportionately absorb the losses.

That the Democrats are thus infected cannot be doubted. In 2020, Newsweek reported the results of a Gallup poll showing that 76 percent of Democrats would support a socialist for president if nominated by their party.

The lemmings of the left are intent on stampeding the Democratic Party into the sea. And they are likely to be successful because there is no one — and no ones — left to stop them.




Second isn't going anywhere, but Ted might want to reconsider what side of the line he is on.


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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I might vote for a socialist, as long as they had Americans' interests at heart. I have no more dedication to monopolies and financialism than I do to globalism, all of which I consider parasitic on Americans.

Bc in order to reindustrialize America, you need a stash of investment capital geared towards infrastructure, basic production, and manufacturing. Ain't no finacialist gonna sink cash into such a low-return endeavor. Either the government finds a partner as part owner (51% govt ownership) or armtwist some company, on the basis of national security, to invest in a industry.


Or you make finacialism such a low return actvity (by increasing reserve requirements astronomically or redefining long term to be five years and jacking up cap gains taxes on anything short term.) that reindustrialization looks like a decent option.

The only problem with making government investment the linchpin of reindustrialization is that it all works when the program is managed by non-corrupted politicians. But over time, the corrupt inevitably worm their way into any concentration of wealth and power. So there has to be some way of devolving the management to smaller entities who will be competing, or refreshing the leadership regularly. And I'm not sure if thats possible. The Founding Fathers did their best with division of power and the vote, but that hasn't prevented total systemic rot.

Needs thought.

One thing govt can do is break apart monopolies.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger


AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA


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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK



Yeah.... You bring up a lot of good points.

How do you put money into things like infrastructure and get a ROI without taxing the hell out of it, right?




And then look at the solution to the Homeless.

We've spent BILLIONS AND BILLIONS on it and the problem just gets worse.

Not only do I suspect that none of the best intentions they had going into it would actually be helpful to anybody long-term, but those people didn't even get that. The vast majority of the money that has been earmarked for homeless has been siphoned off by crooked politicians and bureaucrats.

And with how many foreign-interests the Democrat Party and the NeoCons have allowed to pervade and influence every aspect of American society in the last 20 years, who knows how much of that money has been removed completely from the American economy and is now being circulated somewhere else.



The biggest problem of being a citizen of the country with the largest printing press is that they're splitting the stock you own every single day and giving the split to somebody else.

That was bad enough when the money remained in our economy, but now who the fuck knows where it ends up after it's been split?



--------------------------------------------------

Trump is fine.
He is also your current President.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:38 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Bc in order to reindustrialize America, you need a stash of investment capital geared towards infrastructure, basic production, and manufacturing. Ain't no finacialist gonna sink cash into such a low-return endeavor. Either the government finds a partner as part owner (51% govt ownership) or armtwist some company, on the basis of national security, to invest in a industry.

When tax rates went down, the rich stopped investing in America and gave the money to themselves instead. That's why America is in the situation it is now in today: high government deficits and low investment in industry.

Look at Figure 1: Top Income Tax Rates by Type of Income (1913-2023)
https://www.concordcoalition.org/issue-brief/historical-tax-rates-the-
rhetoric-and-reality-of-taxing-the-rich
/

Between 1936 and 1963, the top individual income tax rate generally ranged between 80 and 90 percent.[12] In 1964, the top rate was reduced to 77 percent, and it was reduced to 70 percent in 1965.

In the 1980s, the top tax rate was reduced from 70 percent to 50 percent, and then to 28 percent.

It is obvious to anyone, except a Trumptard, that as the tax rate changes for the wealthy (not the middle class, the rich), the investment behavior of the wealthy changes enormously and so does the National Debt. If Trump wants to Make America Great Again, the tax rates on the rich must be returned to the same old high levels back when America was great.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Though every irrational part of my brain is screaming at me otherwise, the rational part of my brain is making it very hard for me to not be in agreement with Second on that particular issue.

It's hardly the only problem leading to the outcome that he claims it created singularly, but we have to expect that coming from Second since he has a very simple mind.



Those people didn't re-invest in America. Some of the rain fell here when everything started "Trickling Down", sure....

But a ton of that shit ended up everywhere else but America.

And our government has been run by corporations with no allegiance to America ever since.



--------------------------------------------------

Trump is fine.
He is also your current President.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 8:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What 2nd fails to mention with his tax stat history is that low-income people were being fucked hard core by the Federal Government too.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-income-tax-rates
-brackets
/

I'm assuming that this is why the tax cuts for the 1% didn't bother anybody at the time since they all got massive pay raises when their obscene Federal tax burden was lowered to something resembling reasonable.




Personally, I think you shouldn't pay any income tax other than SS/Medicare unless you're single and making over $50k per year (Married $80k per year).

And the cap on SS/Mediare should be removed and everyone should pay into that on every dollar they make.


And for the love of god, fix the fucking market.

You can change the tax rates all you want, but when the 1% never draw a paycheck in the first place, you need to figure out how you're going to get them to pay their fair share somewhere else.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump is fine.
He is also your current President.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 8:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

And the cap on SS/Medicare should be removed and everyone should pay into that on every dollar they make.


And for the love of god, fix the fucking market.

You can change the tax rates all you want, but when the 1% never draw a paycheck in the first place, you need to figure out how you're going to get them to pay their fair share somewhere else.

There is no limit on the amount of earnings subject to Medicare (hospital insurance) tax. The Medicare tax rate applies to all taxable wages and remains at 1.45 percent with the exception of an “additional Medicare tax” assessed against all taxable wages paid in excess of the applicable threshold (see Note).

Note: Employers are required to withhold the additional Medicare tax at a 0.9 percent rate on wages and other compensation paid to an employee in excess of $200,000 in a calendar year.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/medicarewages.asp

As for the rich, either Corporations or Individuals, there are income taxes on income that is NOT wages. "Profits" for Corps. "Dividends" and "Capital Gains" for wealthy Individuals. But the IRS will not collect from people like Trump because his lawyers/accountants/bookkeepers will stall the IRS lawyers from here to eternity. Over $1 trillion in taxes is not paid each year because of straightforward cheating with absolutely no subtlety.

Trump's IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig told the Senate Finance Committee that the annual tax gap could be $1 trillion. For years, the outgunned IRS hampered by Republican budget cuts struggled against billionaires and corporations with virtually unlimited resources at their disposal.
https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/whitehouse-offsh
ore-tax-evasion-by-big-corporations-the-wealthy-cheats-american-people


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 9:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I don't see a direct connection between tax rates on the rich and their investment behavior. What would be the motivation to plunk $ into investment?

First of all, you're talking about INCOME tax, but the wealthy (now, anyway) make most of their money thru cap gains.

Second, the whole investment mileu was different back then. Globalism and financialism ... commodities futures, hedge funds, M&As, LBOs, stock buybacks, high frequency trading ... didn't exist back then. Glass Steagall was in force. Reserve requirements were higher.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article9748.html

USA industry dominated the globe. Tariffs were in force until about 1950. What else was there to invest in? Where else would you plunk your $$?

So I think the correlation between high income tax rates and investment was somewhat coincidental, and I'm not sure that drastically raising income tax rates on the wealthy would increase investment in industry, since there are so many other- more profitable- ways to shelter wealth from income taxes.

OTOH, SIX makes a good point that there is no ROI on infrastructural development. And, BTW, no ROI for things like pollution control and living wages healthcare and other things that make the USA a decent place to live and work. There have to be sources of funding for what are called "the public good".

As long as the USA is competing internationally ... and as long as capital flows freely and leaks from the USA to other, more profitable venturees, well, we'll be aiming for the bottom of the barrel. And I thought the whole purpose of reindustrialization was to MAGA, not to make life suck even more and turn the USA into India, or worse.

As an aside, people seem to feel that de-dollarization would be horrible for the USA, and I think in the short run it would be. But looking at Russia (yeah, I have to bring them up again) cutting them from SWIFT was the best thing that happened to them. It created capital controls that Russia would have had a hard time enforcing on its own, and since the ruble has fewer places to go, Russians are forced to invest in Russia.

So ONE answer to the USA conundrum might be to gradually let the value of the dollar fall. Not that it becomes worthless, but WORTH LESS.

Overall I think eventually we have to confront the conflation that people have between themselves and our (so-called) "capitalist economy" and realize that even if our economy is "booming" doesn't mean people's lives will be better. If we want that to happen, the uber wealthy and monopolies will have to be forced to give up a great deal of wealth.

My $0.02

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger


AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA


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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 11:33 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't see a direct connection between tax rates on the rich and their investment behavior. What would be the motivation to plunk $ into investment? . . .

My $0.02

No surprise that you can't make connections, Signym.

Meanwhile, the richest are accumulating money and the subsequent power that goes with freely spending it to manipulate whoever they want in Congress because they aren't being taxed enough, but it wouldn't be a surprise if Signym can't make that connection, either. I am not at all surprised when people with paltry sums of money have little to no imagination, since it takes a significant amount of dreaming to imagine workable and legal schemes to make money.

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never
-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax


Our analysis of tax data for the 25 richest Americans quantifies just how unfair the system has become.

By the end of 2018, the 25 were worth $1.1 trillion.

For comparison, it would take 14.3 million ordinary American wage earners put together to equal that same amount of wealth.

The personal federal tax bill for the top 25 in 2018: $1.9 billion.

The bill for the wage earners: $143 billion.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 11:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't see a direct connection between tax rates on the rich and their investment behavior. What would be the motivation to plunk $ into investment? . . .

My $0.02

SECOND: No surprise that you can't make connections, Signym.



I'm not saying that taxes on the rich shouldn't be raised. I think they should be. After all, haven't I argued over and over again that tax law ... especially CORPORATE tax law ... should be rewritten?
I guess it's no surprise you never got that point!

All I was saying is that I don't think that increasing INCOME taxes on the wealthy will cause investment in reindustrialization.
You didn't get that point either.

Quote:

SECOND:
Meanwhile, the richest are accumulating money and the subsequent power that goes with freely spending it to manipulate whoever they want in Congress because they aren't being taxed enough, but it wouldn't be a surprise if Signym can't make that connection, either. I am not at all surprised when people with paltry sums of money have little to no imagination, since it takes a significant amount of dreaming to imagine workable and legal schemes to make money.

You'll get no argument from me that the wealthy use their wealth to rewrite laws in their favor. Even tax law. Especially tax law.

Quote:

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never
-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax


Our analysis of tax data for the 25 richest Americans quantifies just how unfair the system has become.

By the end of 2018, the 25 were worth $1.1 trillion.

For comparison, it would take 14.3 million ordinary American wage earners put together to equal that same amount of wealth.

The personal federal tax bill for the top 25 in 2018: $1.9 billion.

The bill for the wage earners: $143 billion.



Yes, they avoid INCOME tax by shifting their incoming wealth into CAPITAL GAINS.
Cap gains are not income.

For somebody who claims to know how money works, you sure missed a lot.

So, since we both agree that taxes on the rich need to be raised. And since the wealthy can avoid taxes thru entirely LEGAL means, the challenge is to rewrite tax law ....

What's your point?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger


AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA


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Wednesday, December 11, 2024 11:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't see a direct connection between tax rates on the rich and their investment behavior. What would be the motivation to plunk $ into investment?

First of all, you're talking about INCOME tax, but the wealthy (now, anyway) make most of their money thru cap gains.

Second, the whole investment mileu was different back then. Globalism and financialism ... commodities futures, hedge funds, M&As, LBOs, stock buybacks, high frequency trading ... didn't exist back then. Glass Steagall was in force. Reserve requirements



Right. So how do you break it without BREAKING it?

Quote:

USA industry dominated the globe. Tariffs were in force until about 1950. What else was there to invest in? Where else would you plunk your $$?

So I think the correlation between high income tax rates and investment was somewhat coincidental, and I'm not sure that drastically raising income tax rates on the wealthy would increase investment in industry, since there are so many other- more profitable- ways to shelter wealth from income taxes.



Raising income taxes would have almost no impact on anything, outside of maybe some of those who make stupid amounts of money but aren't in the 1%. I'm thinking your good lawyers and plastic surgeons here. People that are actually paid for a service that has a tangible value. I'm sure they're able to hide a good deal of it, but they've also got to pay a lot as to not raise suspicion too.

Do CEO's even really draw a paycheck anymore even, unless it's some sort of legal consideration? I'm sure if they do it's meaningless compared to all the other benefits and stock options they're getting.


Quote:

OTOH, SIX makes a good point that there is no ROI on infrastructural development. And, BTW, no ROI for things like pollution control and living wages healthcare and other things that make the USA a decent place to live and work. There have to be sources of funding for what are called "the public good".


Then take that to the logical conclusion and you get Chicago Mayor Daley's parting gift to the city and the state of Illinois when he sold the profits for ALL PARKING METERS IN CHICAGO FOR 99 YEARS to foreign interests in the Middle East for 2 Billion and then spent that 2 Billion before the Daleys were finally history.

Taxpayers still fund the cops and meter maids to monitor them and give out tickets, but the only revenue the city sees now is from the tickets they give out. While taxpayers are funding the police to give them tickets for not paying to park, all of those profits from the meters that our taxpayer dollars are managing go out of the country for about another 75 years still.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump is fine.
He is also your current President.

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NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE
6ixStringJack 12.11 17:02
SIGNYM 12.11 19:11
6ixStringJack 12.11 19:28
second 12.11 19:38
6ixStringJack 12.11 19:58
6ixStringJack 12.11 20:04
second 12.11 20:46
SIGNYM 12.11 21:13
second 12.11 23:33
SIGNYM 12.11 23:47
6ixStringJack 12.11 23:52

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